Thunderbirds' Pilot OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA, UNITED STATES

Military France

The roar of jet engines, the crack of precision maneuvers, and the spirit of American airpower are all taking center stage at the 2025 Tinker Air Show—and this week’s episode of the Tinker Talks Podcast is soaring right alongside it.  From the flightline, host Mark Hybers welcomes a special guest: Thunderbird #5, the iconic “upside-down” pilot from the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds team. The conversation dives into the pilot’s inspiring journey from watching jets roar over Arlington National Cemetery as a child to flying F-16s in one of the world’s most elite aerial demonstration teams.  Listeners get an inside look at what it takes to fly the Thunderbirds’ new high-energy, emotionally charged performance debuting at Tinker for the first time since 2017. From the symbolism behind the new routine to the physical training it takes to withstand brutal G-forces, the pilot shares the grit and grace behind the glamour.

Transcript

00:00Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Tinker Talks podcast. I'm your host Mark Hybers

00:04and as you can see we're coming to you live from the flight line for this year's

00:09Tinker Air Show. That's going to be happening June 28th, 29th. We're very excited today to be joined

00:15by Air Force pilot number five. That is the upside down number five T-Bird pilot. We've got a great

00:20conversation coming for you and also make sure you check out their Netflix movie special. We're

00:26going to be showing that at the Warren Theater. By the time you see this podcast that will already

00:30happen but it is on TV that you can stream for Netflix. Make sure you come out to the air show

00:35and see these great aerial acts. We've got a lot of performers coming. The Thunderbirds will fly

00:41on Saturday at three and Sunday at three. They have a great new show, one that you've never seen

00:47if you've been to a Tinker Air Force Base air show since they have not been here since 2017. So

00:53we're very excited to you to bring this podcast today and always make sure you like and subscribe

00:58this podcast. Leave a thumbs up and check us out on our socials for sure. I will tell you make sure

01:03that you download our mobile app for this weekend to get all the things you need to know about this

01:09weekend's air show including times, air acts, what to bring, what not to bring. And so with that

01:15let's get on to the podcast. We're very excited to be out here. We're going to do about a 10 to 15

01:36minute podcast. They have just landed and have a lot of things to do tonight. So sir thanks for coming

01:41out and taking a few minutes to join us. Thanks for having me. So just real briefly can you give

01:46us a little bit of background about your your pilot career, Air Force, how you got into the Air Force?

01:51Yeah sure. So it starts out when I was a wee little guy. I grew up right outside Arlington National

01:55Cemetery and all the missing man formation flyers would always come right over our house just roaring

02:00and you know as a little kid to look up and see that it's hard to wonder what it would be like to

02:04do that and so that's when I kind of got that initial exposure to the Air Force and military power

02:08and that's where the seed was planted and learned about the Air Force Academy in high school and

02:14then I applied from there. Went to the Air Force Academy for four years, graduated in 2013, got a

02:18pilot training, was fortunate enough to drop F-16s and flew those for about seven years before getting

02:23picked up on the Thunderbirds. Very nice. So what made you join USAPA instead of maybe going to a

02:29different college and try to come in through a different program? Yeah you know so the Air Force

02:32Academy is just an incredible opportunity. A four-year school is paid for by Uncle Sam. You get a

02:37stipend every month and a pretty good probability or chance at getting a pilot training slot out of

02:42there. So for me it was a no-brainer to get my foot in the door of flying to fighter jet and give

02:47myself the best chance of success at achieving my dreams. Right and did you ever go to an air show

02:52when you were growing up? I did actually yeah. So Andrews Airport Space they hold a show every

02:57year of the year between the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds and so it was kind of right in high

03:00school and I'd learned about the Air Force Academy and I went to Andrews and saw a show with the

03:04Thunderbirds and I still very vividly remember seeing that crossover break so it's a it's a

03:08maneuver where the solos come over behind the crowd and then it looks like they hit at just the very

03:13last second and that it just is burned in my brain of seeing that and it just solidified that that

03:19experience and really lit that passion that fire inside of me to chase this. That's awesome. Did you

03:25ever for a minute think that you would be piloting one of these planes? No sir I didn't I never

03:31thought I would be piloting one of these beautiful red white 16 Pratt Whitney 229 motors it's an

03:38incredible machine for me that dream really just started the fighter jet just get in a fighter jet

03:42and over over time you know I got to serve in various capacities throughout the combat air force

03:48and ultimately it landed me back in at Randolph Air Force Base in the 435th fighter trainer squadron

03:53training up the the newest generation of fighter pilots and teaching them how to use an aircraft

03:58tactically and how to employ it and for me that was really getting to invest in the next generation

04:03and so this team and what we do in our mission of recruit retain inspire is just a continuation of

04:07that effort. That's awesome so how many shows do you guys fly per year? So we do 32 shows across the

04:13U.S. that's 32 show sites and each show site will fly about two shows so throughout the course of the

04:18year upwards of 64 shows to include they do the Daytona 500 flyover sometimes we do the the Super

04:25Bowl or the Indy 500 so every every weekend from March to November we're on the road visiting a

04:30different corner of America and getting to to represent our airmen. That's a long time so was

04:35there ever any point in your childhood growing up that you thought you might try to go into the

04:40Navy and fly Blue Angels as opposed to Thunderbirds? That's a great question growing up I grew up in

04:46Arlington Virginia as I mentioned and so it's pretty close to the the Naval Academy actually

04:51in Annapolis Maryland and so I threw my hat in the ring over there at the same time they're probably

04:54to the Air Force Academy and the uh the Naval Academy said no thanks and the Air Force said

04:58sure let's do it so I was like I'm sold let's go. They're lost right? Exactly. And so interestingly

05:04enough there was a time and we don't anymore but we used to work on the engines for these planes here

05:09we work on almost all the all the engines in the entire inventory for the Air Force but this one

05:15we've stopped working on a few years ago but obviously for all the local people here this

05:20is still a very near and dear jet. You guys are obviously very near and dear to us. Have you flown

05:26here before? Is this your first time coming to Tinker as part of the team? This is my first time

05:30coming to Tinker as part of the team yesterday. Okay awesome and what are you looking forward to most

05:34this weekend? You know it's it's really exciting to get to come to these shows we haven't been here

05:38since 2017 so the last time that we're here we actually had a different show so in 2020 through

05:44COVID it was a blessing in disguise for the team so you imagine we're going from training season

05:48flying twice a day every day for six to sometimes seven days a week and then right into the show

05:52season and so there's not time to sit down and and look at our performance and to tweak it and to

05:56massage it and change it and so with that that downtime during COVID while we were doing America

06:00Strong we actually took that opportunity to go back to the drawing board with our demonstration and

06:05to make it a coherent production that has music and narration and themes that all go throughout the

06:09grace of flying and patriotism and the raw power and we really wove that all together and the entire

06:14time that you're watching this demonstration and I start low on the horizon and they start getting

06:17drawn up towards the skies and so there's a lot of symbolism that comes into it it's emotional

06:21and it really tugs at your uh your your heartstrings and and just makes you proud of being American and

06:26proud of what we've accomplished in this Air Force and so that's just really exciting to get to

06:30bring this new show to Tinker uh this year. Well that's awesome so for us it'll be the first time we

06:36get to see the new show um kind of looking forward to seeing you know the tens of thousands of kids

06:42that come out here and they're so awed by what you guys do um so that's got to be kind of nice for

06:47you to know what you how you inspire these kids. Of course yeah um you know that's where we make our

06:52money the the demonstration the pretty jets the pilots that's just a conversation starter right

06:56and we're where we really make our money is when we get down to the the autograph line and the fence

07:00line or the interactions out on the base that we get to to have with these at the community

07:04engagements and and and really get to know them and to show them there's a human side to this

07:09right there's a human endeavor and and just working really hard at being the best that you can

07:14be in the name of something that is bigger than yourself. Right and so speaking of first times

07:19I think this year you guys are doing a Fallen Heroes tribute a salute. Yes sir. I don't know if you're

07:25you're part of that I don't know how that looks can you kind of describe to us what that is? Yes sir

07:30yep um so for the Fallen Warriors ceremony um that is it's a very obviously a very private ceremony

07:34that happens after the show we bring the family out to the jet here but what we do the special is

07:39we put their name on the uh the landing gear well and when the boss takes off and he uh raises his

07:45landing gear that door closes and it pulls that name up into the heart of the aircraft and we get

07:48to fly with them throughout that demonstration um when we sit down to do the brief um we all uh sit

07:54down and we talk about the the Fallen Warrior and and who we're flying for and what they did and what

07:59they stood for and so uh we fly that entire demonstration with them in the back of our minds

08:03and inside of the jet um and then we get to pull the crowd into that through the narration uh part

08:07way through the show and it's a somber moment but um it's it's recognition that's deserved um for

08:13their sacrifice and we can never forget them. Well certainly this year uh the two Fallen Warriors

08:18that you're flying for this year were two of our airmen that were lost in the Oklahoma City bombing

08:2330 years ago so I mean obviously that's going to be huge for this community you know and show the

08:29spirit of Oklahoma and I think they'll be very happy with what you guys do. Yeah I believe your

08:35your phrase here is Tinker Strong and and that really that really is a testament to to this

08:39community and Tinker Air Force Base and uh rallying behind our fellow airmen. Yes sir very true and so

08:45uh we've got a few more minutes I know I've got to let you go we have a lot of a lot of things for

08:49you guys to do I mean you've just landed but you come in it's really hot it's humid and probably a lot

08:55of your flying is hot and humid but what kind of training regimen do you need to go through through

08:59the summertime to be prepared to fly and stay healthy and fit? Yeah a lot of personal fitness

09:04uh in order to to fly these jets you can imagine it's an extremely physical endeavor um you have to

09:10be athletic um you know we kind of think of ourselves as athletes and you have to keep your

09:14body in shape in order to be able to fly the demonstration to handle the g-forces that you're

09:17subjecting your body to especially when you're coasting around these jets have the safety systems

09:22for the the ground collision avoidance taken out because there's obviously be verifications of that

09:26that logic kicked in and started flying our jet force down low at altitude so we take all that

09:30stuff out and so we need to stay awake in the cockpit throughout our g-strain um so it does take a a lot

09:35of um personal accountability for knowing your body knowing your limits and uh making sure that you can

09:41sustain whatever the jet can give you. Right and not only just that but for for those of you that may

09:46not know like you still have air force active duty requirements correct? You still have training all the

09:53things at any other active duty person. How difficult is that for you guys to fit all that in? Uh it's

09:58difficult it's good time management right um it's it's having a method for things um knowing when stuff

10:02is coming up when it's going to get done and um really just stand on top of it so yeah we're just like

10:07any other air force unit um in terms of all the training and the requirements that we have to keep up

10:11there while also uh fulfilling our main role and ultimately putting on an incredible performance of

10:16human achievement. Right awesome so before we get going I did want to ask you a couple more

10:21questions one is we we talked a little bit about your number fives upside down and I know I've been

10:27doing this for a long time and oddly just saw it for the first time uh Paul Shirk our CI chief

10:32mentioned it like what is that all about and so can you share with us why your number five is upside down

10:38where that came from? Yeah so uh started about 36 years ago um one of our crew chiefs uh he thought

10:43it'd be funny if he flipped the five upside down because I do most of the show upside down as the number

10:48five a lot of the the clips those are reflections and the passes uh I spend my time upside down so

10:52he flipped that five upside down so a lot of the photos and videos of five would be right side up

10:56during the demonstration and uh nobody noticed it for about three days and then uh somebody finally

11:01noticed and they thought it was hilarious they uh they kept it around so it's a tradition for us

11:04anywhere you see a five on the jet on my uniform here on our brochure as well as my signature I'll uh

11:09throw the little five upside down. That's pretty awesome and did did it take you a while to figure out

11:14how to walk upside right? Did you get a weird sensation? Yeah I'm really good at handstands and

11:17then walking around. Awesome and so before we get out of here I do want to talk about your next event

11:23after you've just landed like literally 20 minutes ago um we're already going to get you out and about

11:29but we do have a great opportunity tonight uh where your Netflix documentary special is going to show

11:36in one of the theaters here in Midwest City just outside the fence line of Tinker which was a great

11:41place to do it because Tinker in Midwest City kind of grew up together you know we we started this

11:46base because of the community so the community support's massive uh we were able to just get

11:50like a real small it's not a small theater but we had to limit who we invited to because it was going

11:57to go quick but uh you were in the documentary were you part of the team when this happened? Yep I was

12:03part of the team. So how cool is this for you to be able to have come through the documentary filmed

12:08all that all the work that that took and now tonight you get to see a community and actually

12:12watch it aired on a big TV uh big screen in Warren Theater. It's incredible uh to see that the process

12:19go from idea to birth to execution and then the fruits of the labor uh of it getting released on

12:24Netflix has been absolutely incredible um as you can imagine doing a show season while in training

12:29season and show season while filming uh is a big endeavor um it's a big ask of the team but um we had an

12:35incredible team in 2023 a lot of those team members have since moved on um so they are uh they got to

12:41see it um but not you know while being on the Thunderbird so I'm particularly blessed to still be

12:45on the team when it comes out. I was Thunderbird 8 at the time as the advanced pilot narrator and so

12:49a lot of my cameos are just like little small clips um are just from me narrating uh parts of the

12:54show so um I had that role there and then I was kind of behind the scenes I got sort of flying the

12:58helicopter uh with the production crew um just with my knowledge of being the narrator knowing where the

13:03diamond the souls are at all time for the deconfliction as a safety observer so um I got a real behind the

13:08scenes look at everything of making a major Netflix documentary um and it's you know the it's been

13:13amazing going around the country and um getting to meet people that that have no idea what goes

13:18into the Thunderbird mission and to really get that sense of the the human sacrifice uh that goes

13:23into uh our mission um the the shoulders of giants that we stand on the teamwork that it takes to put

13:28on something like this and um how hard we work and how how hard we how much we care about how we

13:34look and so um that's that's something we take a lot of pride in and uh we're proud to just get to

13:39to demonstrate that to the American public and for them to see and to represent really what

13:42all the 695,000 airmen across the airport do but particularly those here at Tinker that will be

13:47there tonight right that's awesome well sir thank you so much great to meet you have a great

13:51time tonight and a great weekend we look forward to seeing you out there inspiring our people

13:56that'll be awesome thanks sir

13:57woo

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