- 27/06/2025
Get expert insight on the future of UK manufacturing from Chris Barlow, Mark James Lumsdon-Taylor, Andrew Thurston (all MHA), and Josie Morris (Woolcool) in this exclusive video. Filmed at our specialist pre-event roundtable ahead of the Made in the UK Awards.
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00:00I'm Chris Barlow, I'm a partner with MHA. So Chris MHA are sponsoring Made in the UK,
00:15why was it important for you to get involved in this celebration of British manufacturing?
00:22I think a couple of reasons, I think firstly the manufacturing industry is so vitally important
00:27to the UK has been through and is still going through some great headwinds, all sorts of
00:34things being buffeted into the manufacturing. We've worked manufacturing businesses for many,
00:41many years, we've done reports, surveyed their opinions, taken those into government to represent
00:46the sector and we work with those manufacturers on a day-to-day basis advising them how they
00:49might want to take their buildings or even their business forward.
00:54And what are some of the ways that you help manufacturers?
00:58I think firstly, it's somebody who will listen to them, somebody who will talk to them, somebody
01:02who will challenge them about where they're taking the business, but then creatively help
01:07them. So is it tax relief? Is it just looking at the individual margins and the way that
01:12their business is working? Just ask them those questions and support them along that path.
01:17And you have, obviously people will know you as accountants, but you have definite experts
01:23with sector expertise in manufacturing, don't you? So do you find these days that people
01:28will come to you for perhaps more general mentorship as well?
01:32Yeah, absolutely. We have specialists in all sorts of areas across the business from customs
01:36and duty all the way through to ESG and everything in between. And it's those individual experts who
01:42can help the business in those particular issues that they may be having.
01:46Yeah. And so we've got Made in the UK. Obviously, these are all of the winners from the regional,
01:52Made in the Northwest, Made in the Midlands, Made in the Southwest and so on. So these guys are all
01:56winners in their regions. And now they're going forward to the National Awards. And I know from Made in the
02:04Northwest, there's some amazing businesses and amazing kind of diversity of sectors, isn't there?
02:10Yeah, there is absolutely. I've seen a bit more of Made in the Midlands from being my base. Yeah,
02:15some great stories about how things have been taken, changed, innovated and just made better by that.
02:21There's some fantastic businesses out there. Manufacturers are an innovative bunch and you see
02:26that every day of the week. Yeah, yeah. And so we've just had three round tables. We've had ESG,
02:33we've had International, we've had AI. Which one were you sitting on? I was talking about skills and AI.
02:38AI, right. Okay. Skills, the challenge that's been perennial in manufacturing for years and how AI can
02:46help and embrace that and not take jobs, but just take that whole part forward really.
02:51So what were some of the themes that you discussed on your round table? What were some of your findings?
02:56I think firstly, the image of manufacturing, why we got that skills gap. So what more can be done with
03:03schools and colleges? What more can come from government to change that image? And then how
03:08can AI be brought into those businesses? And there was one of the businesses that is offering an award
03:13tonight on our table talking about how they have taken AI into the business, how they're reducing the test
03:20times from three hours down to two hours and so on. And that's made a huge difference to their business.
03:24And you can see the impact that's made. And he talks about the impact there where you've got perhaps,
03:31they've got like a digital team. They happened to be the younger people in the business, wasn't necessarily
03:36the plan. And you get that potential conflict with the older people, seeing it as more of a threat.
03:42And some very interesting stories as part of that. Is it a messaging thing you think, you know,
03:47to the team straight away, are people going to say, oh, AI is coming to take our jobs?
03:52And, but you're saying that's not the case. Absolutely not the case. It's automating those
03:59very repetitive tasks, doing them perhaps more efficiently, doing them quicker, perhaps reducing
04:05the error rate within there. But there's still the human role, there's the testing,
04:09there's the checking part of that. So no, it's not, it doesn't take jobs. It automates those processes.
04:15And potentially frees people up to do, I suppose, more, more specialized things.
04:19Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
04:22Okay. Well, I mean, it's a, it's a great celebration of manufacturing. And we certainly,
04:32you know, appreciate you guys being on board. It's really nice to, to work with you on, on this.
04:37I mean, is it, do you have any sort of, I suppose, closing observations on British manufacturing?
04:43And kind of where there's been, as you said, there's been so many international headwinds,
04:48you know, where, where is British manufacturing in the world?
04:51British manufacturing is still huge, especially in the world. We're waiting with some bated breath for
04:57an industrial strategy, I think. And it's exactly what that strategy will say. But as I said,
05:03manufacturers are an innovative bunch. The work you see them do on a day-to-day basis,
05:09British manufacturing is in a good place, but it could be so much better with additional help
05:13and support as part of that process. So my name is Mark James Lumsden-Taylor,
05:17and I'm from MHA Baker Tilly Lead UK member.
05:21Okay. So Mark, we're here at Made in the UK. MHA are our sponsor for this whole event. Why is it so
05:31important for you to be involved in this? Well, my role is in sustainability and environmental
05:37social governance, and also to a certain extent, an internal audit. So that's looking at controls
05:41and processes and improving businesses in effect. Made in the UK is a fundamental component of
05:47bringing SME business and manufacturers together. And we as MHA were built on auditing and working
05:55with SMEs. We've grown and grown and grown over the years to be recently listed. But that doesn't
06:01change the fact that our roots and our core relationships are with businesses like this,
06:05that you actually support. And I think Made in the UK is a fundamental component of bringing them
06:11together, which means we can then talk to them and learn from their experiences. And that then
06:15improves our services to business. And there's such a diversity of business,
06:18isn't there? I mean, there's heavy engineering, there's car companies, there's gin distilleries.
06:23I mean, you know, manufacturing is a very, very broad church, isn't it? But a lot of common
06:29struggles. Absolutely. I mean, manufacturing means different things to different people,
06:33right? So when people think manufacture, they often think heavy components, heavy engineering,
06:38you know, perhaps made me saw now like digital services is kind of linked in there as well.
06:43I'm actually spend a lot of time in the food space. So food manufacture is a huge part of the
06:48manufacturing narrative, if you like. And I think what's important is having the debate with those
06:55different businesses. And there are common themes. Cash is common theme. The way in which they're
07:00dealing with supply chain demands, common theme. The way they're dealing with the customer's customer's
07:05demands. And with the rise of globalisation, businesses' expectation of businesses keeps going
07:14up, irrespective of what the political statements and narrative around that is at the minute,
07:18businesses expect more from businesses, which puts pressure on SMEs. And you can be a £20 million
07:23business with 200 staff, the pressures are broadly the same as a £5 million business with 50. It's
07:28broadly the same. And for the person running the business who we often speak to, you know,
07:34it's nice to have that network of peers, I suppose, as well, isn't it?
07:38Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I'm a bit unique as someone that works in professional services,
07:44professional practice. So I ran my own organisation for 15 years and I built it from 75 staff to 1400.
07:51So I know what it's like on a Friday night about whether or not you're going to make payroll. I know
07:55what it's like when you get up on Saturday morning and you're actually thinking about all the things
08:00you need to do on Monday. And actually then in those days, you know, you'd go back to the office and
08:04open up your computer. You wouldn't have a laptop or only very recent in that world.
08:11You're thinking about it 24-7 and sharing those experiences. And the narrative that we had
08:15with our roundtable was we talked very corporately around environmental social governance and what they
08:20do and everything else. And then it developed actually into the social construct of why they're
08:24doing it. Is it a family legacy? So there's the pressure around the family's family to maintain
08:29it. Is it a business that's been around for 50 years? Is it going to survive for another 50?
08:34Who is he or she going to hand it on to? Or right the way through to, you know what,
08:38I have no life because I'm spending 24-7 building my business. I've got five people in it,
08:43and I'm going to make it a success. But I have no life.
08:46Not sharing. And I think there's, it actually took, ironically, we had almost like a bit of
08:50a therapy session towards the end, I think. Just sharing those experiences and the fact that
08:55you're not alone in it. And many of those struggles and issues, whether it's
09:01something just simply going to that next level. There's growing spurts between a five million
09:06pound to a 10. 10 to a 20 less of it. The 20 to the 50 is, is game turning. And I've experienced it. And
09:14the way in which businesses run its systems, its controls, its processes, more often than not,
09:19they won't be experienced in that. And I suppose keeping the culture as you, as you grow as well.
09:25Family was talked about a lot. And a colleague on our table said, you know, when it was a hundred,
09:30I knew everybody's name. A hundred and ninety-five. I probably doesn't anymore. Yeah. It was the same
09:36for me. I knew every single person in the group when we had 120 staff. When we rose to two, three
09:41hundred, three hundred, some people would, you leave the business, join and leave. And I've never
09:46known them. Yeah. And that's quite a hard mental thing to deal with. And we were saying, you take
09:52every resignation in the early days personally. Why are you leaving us? What, what, what, what is wrong with
09:57my company? And then you almost get hardened to it to realize that it is churn. It is life. And not
10:03everybody, like the entrepreneurs in this room, not everybody is prepared to put their heart,
10:09their soul and their life into doing something that ultimately will make a difference. And we talked
10:14about, are you there for the money? Are you there for making a difference? And actually, the two almost
10:18become interchangeable because you do need to make money. But a lot of them, particularly the sustainability
10:23businesses and very altruistic and actually they want to make a difference to society. That's very
10:28laudable. And I suppose the, you know, the topic of your round table was ESG. And when you say ESG,
10:34people immediately start thinking about, oh, it's recycling. It's, you know, it's fuels, all of this
10:39kind of thing. But that social side is huge, isn't it? And also just the sustainability of your
10:46business, looking after and retaining your people. It is. And I think, unfortunately, people use the term
10:52sustainability, ESG, net zero, carbon neutral or carbon positive, all interchangeably.
11:00Ultimately, sustainability is defined very clearly, 1989 brought the definition, whatever you take
11:06out of the world, you need to put back to ensure that the next generation of people are not disadvantaged.
11:12That's sustainability, full stop, end of. ESG is a reporting framework by which your business should be
11:17developing towards. And I think more often than not, people deal with the E because it's easier.
11:24And E for easy. You know, it's okay, let's look at our CO2 emissions. What can we do? Put green LEDs
11:31on, put solar panels, blah, blah, blah, all of that stuff. Maybe look at electricity, which incidentally
11:34isn't sustainable long term. But the societal and the governance aspects of the way in which your
11:40business is run is becoming increasingly important. And a chap on our table said, you know,
11:44his retention rate, sorry, his loss rate of staff is 2%. I couldn't believe it. I said,
11:49you recalculate it. That's incredible. But they're very much a family, where their location is,
11:56they're very much a family orientated business, people are generationally there, they're invested
12:01in the company, that yeah, they're mentally invested in the company. But it's not the same in London,
12:05people turn over all the time. So your societal credentials are more important than ever. And I think
12:11that's also something that came out today. And it's also just as important as the E.
12:15At MH, we split it. So I have a colleague that's involved that heads up E. I actually head up the
12:20societal piece. That's also part of my background in education. And then I've got another colleague
12:25sets up G, which actually is the responsibility as the board.
12:28So we split ours. And we also have another E, economic.
12:33Of course, yeah.
12:34So we call it E squared, because economic and environmental are mutually inclusive.
12:39You're not going to do something environmentally if it's going to materially impact your economic
12:44viability. You take a calculated risk, right? So saving the world comes at a price.
12:51It's getting that balance, isn't it? People, planet and profit.
12:54Well, yeah, or the triple borderline, if you want to call it, whatever you want to call it.
12:57And I think for sustainability and the role of sustainability within businesses,
13:03and I said this at the end of ours, I said, for goodness sake, be clear about your definition of
13:08what your interpretation of sustainability is, point one. And then point two is look at where you want
13:15to be on the ESG journey. Because some businesses who are miners or oil and gas,
13:19huge exploration or drilling or whatever, will never be environmentally sustainable.
13:29So you play that narrative out, but it could be investing in sustainable companies.
13:34And it's the transparency around what they do. And that's part of my big job.
13:39Not greenwashing.
13:40I, we are members of the UNGC, and we're quite a senior member in that. And we work closely with
13:47them about calling out some of those big majors. You can't report that. That's not, that's not
13:52appropriate. And I think the role of advisors and accountants, we are custodians of truth and
13:59fairness, ultimately, aren't we? And we have to provide that independent challenge and independent
14:05narrative to companies, big or small, to make sure they do things properly. And if they're
14:09not doing it right, they should be called out. I'm Andrew Thurston. I'm the MHA Customs Duty
14:15Senior Manager. I've been with the company for the last five and a half years.
14:18Fantastic. So, obviously, MHA are our sponsors for Made in the UK. So from your point of view,
14:27you know, why did you guys want to get behind this?
14:29I think it, from our perspective, obviously, manufacturing is a big part of cross-border
14:36trade. And with all these sort of global situations going on at the moment, it's an ideal time to sit
14:42down in front of businesses, discuss their issues and try and work out, you know, what common themes
14:48may be. Yeah, yeah. And so today, we've done three roundtables. We've done an ESG and sustainability
14:56one. We've done a kind of future-looking AI one. And we've done an international one. And you were
15:01sitting on the international one. So what were some of the sort of standout themes from that round
15:07table for you? I think it just highlighted the complexities of just setting yourselves up or
15:14moving into a different marketplace. The taxation rules, the sort of local requirements, even just
15:24the sort of the culture aspects and the considerations that a business needs to undertake just to be able
15:30to get into that marketplace. Yeah, I think culture is a big one, isn't it? And also understanding that
15:37even within a single country, there's potentially different ways of doing things, isn't there?
15:41Exactly, yeah. And it's not something that I sort of appreciate really coming from a tax
15:46background. But yeah, when you're looking at perhaps just getting a contract over the line,
15:52just having that local awareness and understanding of how businesses operate, how people operate,
15:58could be the defining factor. And so what are some of the ways that you'll support
16:03your clients at MHA when it comes to international trade and, you know, specifically manufacturers,
16:08because that's the theme? Yeah, so for manufacturing, obviously, you're looking at
16:12potentially bringing in raw materials for production, and then hopefully re-exporting
16:18globally. So helping clients understand the potential benefits of using custom special procedures,
16:26processing to reduce the duty impact within the UK, things like free ports and customs warehousing,
16:33all those sorts of customs benefits that might help reduce costs within the supply chain.
16:39So Made in the UK, all of the companies shortlisted tonight are all companies that have previously won at
16:45the regional made-ins. So these are all kind of best-in-class companies, aren't they? I mean,
16:53such a great array of companies from a very broad spectrum of manufacturing, isn't it?
16:59Exactly, yeah. And it just shows the sort of what the UK can produce, and hopefully, you know,
17:09it continues to grow. I'm Josie, I am from a company called Orkul, and we're based in Staffordshire,
17:15in the Midlands. Okay, so this evening, you're shortlisted for an award at Made in the UK. What award
17:24is it that you're going for? We're going for the Environmental and Sustainability Award. I think it's
17:29called that, but yes, it's an environmental award that we are up for. Okay, and you've just been sitting
17:34on the round table with the topic of ESG as well. So what are some of the discussion points that
17:42you've just heard on your round table? I think what's really interesting and what we said on
17:46the table was actually, as many businesses in the UK are doing loads of fantastic things around
17:51sustainability, but we don't shout about them. So what was really interesting around the table is
17:55people saying, oh, we're doing bits and bobs, and when they start actually talking about it,
17:59they're doing so much. So one of the things that came out was really, maybe we should shout about it
18:02more, because the more people you see that are doing more sustainable practices, the more people will
18:07follow suit. And I think topics around, you know, baby steps. So how do you start a sustainable
18:14journey? Quite often people will feel like it's a big hill to push something up when actually we're
18:19talking about those baby steps you can engage with, and also around not just being sustainable from an
18:27environmental perspective, but a lot of the talk was around looking after your people and how that
18:31can create a sustainable business as well. So it's the social side, isn't it? But also, I guess,
18:36the sustainability in the sense of retention? Yes, I mean, really, one of the guys made a great
18:42point that if you're a sustainable business in all aspects, that's the best kind of business,
18:46because you can invest, obviously, in your people, you can invest in the planet, you can invest in
18:51the right materials. You're not just throwing something away because it's the cheapest thing to
18:55do, because you've got maybe a bit of funding in the bank to make sure you're doing the right thing.
18:59So sustainability means environmental and social, but also being a business that can
19:05last into the future and create good jobs for good people and also look after the planet.
19:10Yeah. Okay. And so tell me a little bit about your company and your product, Woolcool.
19:16So we produce insulated packaging using sheep's wool. So essentially, it's a replacement of polystyrene
19:21boxes. Typically, our product's used for the shipment of food and pharmaceutical products.
19:26So everything from meat, dairy, fish, all the way through to vaccines, diet pens, Botox,
19:34IV bags. So we cover the whole spectrum. Anything that needs to be kept temperature controlled,
19:39our product can be used for. So who would your customer be? Would they be the people who,
19:44you know, the couriers or would it be the manufacturers or would it be the shippers or what?
19:49So our customers actually go across the whole breadth. We've got distributors,
19:53so people who are maybe sending food to other food companies for them to send out. We've got
19:57e-commerce. So quite a few of our customers are e-commerce. So they might be sending ready meals
20:03or they might be sending pet food direct to the consumer. And we've then got wholesalers,
20:08particularly maybe pharmaceutical wholesalers who are shipping to pharmacies. And then we've got
20:13pharmacies who are shipping out to patients or between hospitals as well.
20:16And where did the idea for the product come from?
20:19So the product actually was invented by our founder and she was a packaging consultant.
20:26She was working on a project with the National Trust and her remit as a packaging consultant was
20:31to find a way to replace polystyrene because the National Trust wanted their farmers who they were
20:35looking after to send their produce out in the post, but without using polystyrene boxes because
20:40the National Trust are very much about sustainability. So they said basically in early 2000s when
20:45sustainability wasn't such a big topic, can you replace our polystyrene boxes? So that's where
20:50it came from. She invented wool cool using 100% cheap wool, did testing. National Trust went and used
20:57the products after they were happy with the product design. And then since then it's grown and we launched
21:02officially in 2009 as wool cool. And since then we've kind of gone from strength to strength, particularly as
21:08I say in e-commerce and food distribution, we're going into the pharmaceuticals more and more now.
21:12And in terms of the wool, I mean, is this wool that would otherwise be used for sort of woolly
21:17jumpers or is it kind of stuff that would just be wasted or what?
21:21Yeah, so it's the wool that you wouldn't want as a woolly jumper. It's quite coarse wool, so it tends to be
21:26the wool typically that would go to waste in the industry or it might be used for cheaper carpets.
21:31It can't really be dyed because it tends to be the greyer walls as well. So we're using
21:35kind of the coarser wools that you wouldn't want to make a scarf out of them.
21:41Yeah.
21:41But it would probably end up either being quite low value or a product goes to waste
21:48or it would end up being burned or dug into the ground.
21:51So is it good for the farmers as well? Are they getting additional value from something that they
21:56normally wouldn't?
21:57So typically there is quite a complex supply chain with the wool. But what we're hoping is by creating
22:02a market for the lower value wools that the farmers do get paid for that wool.
22:06Right.
22:06Because quite often a lot of it there isn't a market for so it doesn't sell so they don't
22:09get any money for it. So what we'd like to do over the time is probably drive that more and more
22:13and have more engagement with those farmers.
22:16Fair trade?
22:16Fair trade indeed, yes.
22:17Like fair.
22:22Josie, thank you so much for your time and I'd like to say the best of luck to you as well tonight.
22:27Yeah, I'm very excited about it and always love a meal as well.
22:30Absolutely, me too. Thanks very much.
22:32Thanks so much for this time.
22:33Cheers.
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