- 2 days ago
Queens recognizing queens! Vivian Wilson sits down with her favorite drag queen Sasha Colby to talk about all things drag, their experiences being trans in the limelight, career journeys and more.
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00:00If conservatives are talking about me, they're making money off of my name, so they're thanking
00:04me behind the screen, you're welcome.
00:07I'm shaking in every single orifice of my body.
00:17Oh my god, hi, it's so nice to meet you.
00:21Finally.
00:22She's so tall, perfect.
00:23You're so gorgeous.
00:24Jesus Christ.
00:25Sasha Colby.
00:26I'm talking to Sasha Colby.
00:28Sorry, I'm good, I'm good, I'm great, I'm loved, this is very, I'm very normal.
00:33How are things?
00:34Things are, life is great.
00:36I love that for you.
00:37Yeah, I'm having so much fun, it's Pride season.
00:40Yes.
00:41So we are kicking off Pride all over the place.
00:43What have you been up to?
00:44I've been doing things, I'm trying to move on with what I am doing with my career, and
00:50I am trying a bunch of new things, which is very exciting for me.
00:54Obviously modeling is like the main thing.
00:55What was your favorite modeling experience to date?
00:59I think Tomboy X.
01:00Yeah.
01:01I did an underwear shoot with them.
01:02That was cool, because before then, I was very modest and demure person.
01:06Mm-hm.
01:07Even when I was going to the beach, I would wear a shirt and pants.
01:10And now, I don't, I will wear crop tops and stuff after that.
01:13It kind of helps with my confidence.
01:15So, Sasha, what was your proudest moment on RuPaul's Drag Race, the television show?
01:20Well, winning was my favorite part.
01:22I mean, hello.
01:23But I'm very lucky to win four challenges my season, that was the most that season.
01:27And they were all for different things.
01:28I did one for interviewing.
01:29Hello.
01:30Someone.
01:31Celebrity interview.
01:32The is who I am?
01:33Straight people have no idea.
01:34Straight people have no idea who I am.
01:37Proudest moment?
01:38I think it was, blame it on the edit, like the finale.
01:40It looked really, really good, yeah.
01:41It was so much fun, and I just felt like, okay, I got through all the hard parts, like
01:46the makeover and the roast and all those ones that'll keep you anxious.
01:51And I was like, okay, this last challenge is something I do every day, you know?
01:55Yeah.
01:55And some lip syncs, though.
01:56Yeah.
01:57It felt good.
01:58Well, I can imagine.
02:00It really did.
02:01And RuPaul is like, super sweet and so nice.
02:05She is?
02:05Yeah, she's really sweet.
02:06She kind of scares me a little bit.
02:08Yeah, I definitely have the fear of God.
02:11She kind of, to me, has that kind of, like, ethereal, otherworldly quality that you also
02:16kind of have.
02:17Oh, thank you.
02:18So it's kind of surprising to hear that, to be honest.
02:20That she's down to earth.
02:22Is she?
02:23To me, but yet I also am otherworldly, so maybe my relatability is not, like, the normal
02:32person.
02:33I know that you were just a cover girl for Teen Vogue, how did that feel?
02:38That was honestly the most insane experience of my entire life.
02:42I mean, it was, like, amazing.
02:43It obviously changed my life.
02:44The reception of it was so sweet.
02:46I received so many kind messages and so many hateful messages, which was also, like, really
02:50funny.
02:51Yeah, it's really, like, it's motivating when you get the hate.
02:55Yeah.
02:56It's like, wow.
02:57Yeah.
02:58You're sad.
02:59The phrase.
03:00Your favorite drag queen's favorite drag queen.
03:02Yes.
03:03What does it all mean?
03:04It's so wild.
03:05Like, I was just, we were at Meet the Queens.
03:08We were filming.
03:09We had already finished the show.
03:10So we kind of knew where we were lined up for, like, the top four, who we were.
03:15They were like, oh, think of, like, a catchphrase or something that you want to say that just
03:20kind of describes you.
03:21And I don't know where that came from.
03:25Probably from somewhere, like, really, like, snide and, like, drag queen.
03:30You know, like.
03:31That's amazing.
03:32You know, if, like, I love my daughter Carrie Colby.
03:34Yes.
03:35But if you ever heard of, like, perfumes, the designer imposter perfumes, like, if you
03:38like Giorgio Armani, you'll love.
03:40Yeah, so that's, like, if you like Carrie Colby, you would love Sasha Colby.
03:43Yeah.
03:44So, like, that's your favorite drag queen's favorite drag queen.
03:46And now it's, like, a life of its own.
03:48Like, I just heard, like, rappers saying your favorite rapper's favorite rapper.
03:51Really?
03:52I mean, Chappell said your favorite artist.
03:53Obviously, yeah.
03:54I mean, there was, like, an animal at Disneyland that said your favorite hippo's favorite hippo.
03:59I was like.
04:00So how does it feel having drag be this, like, I don't know if mainstream is the right word,
04:05but, like, mainstream adjacent phenomenon?
04:08You know, drag has always been, like, a mirror to pop culture.
04:12Yes.
04:13And it definitely still are.
04:14But the Venn diagrams just cross so much.
04:16And now I feel it's getting so mainstream, but I feel like instead of us being a mirror to pop culture,
04:22now pop culture's mirroring us.
04:24And we're setting this, like, the trends.
04:26I would agree.
04:27And the fandoms don't stop, so we have to give them more every time.
04:32Yes.
04:33Speaking of pop culture, you've been all over the place.
04:37Have I?
04:38You're definitely a viral sensation.
04:40Oh, God.
04:41I don't want to talk about it.
04:42For being yourself and for being unapologetically outspoken.
04:45Because I have a hard time with my social media.
04:48Like, I always think, like, oh, gosh, I can't get too sucked in.
04:51Like, if I look at the good comments, then I have to be okay with the bad ones.
04:55And my ego can't handle, so I just stay away from it.
04:58The bad ones give me life.
04:59They keep you alive.
05:00See, that's Gen Z.
05:01I think they're so funny.
05:02I think they're so funny.
05:03It's like, your life is so much sadder than mine, and yet you think you can come for me.
05:06See, that's that Gen Z attitude that I wish I had as a poor millennial.
05:10I'm just, like, victimizing myself.
05:12But it's hard, right?
05:13Mm-hmm.
05:14How do you view your social media presence?
05:16Do you see it, like, as activism or as, like, your resume?
05:19No.
05:20I view my social media presence as me doing what I feel like, and then people watch it sometimes.
05:25Which I think is the best.
05:26Just the purest form.
05:27Yeah.
05:28I think it's the most accurate way to describe it.
05:29I have thoughts.
05:30The most unadulterated.
05:31Yeah.
05:32I have thoughts.
05:33I have ideas.
05:34A budget of about zero dollars.
05:35And I do things, and then people watch them.
05:38Yeah.
05:39Sometimes they like them.
05:40Yeah.
05:41And I think that's the philosophy you need to have.
05:42Right.
05:43You do it for you.
05:44Yeah.
05:45Exactly.
05:46Whoever watches it should be so lucky.
05:47Yeah, they should be.
05:48I mean, they should.
05:49And I must say, like, with that idea of, like, how you, not attack, but pro, pro…
05:55I do attack.
05:56How you attack social media and…
05:58And people on social media.
05:59Yeah.
06:00And the people.
06:01And being a trans gamist, you know, myself, like, I've been, like, up for fodder for the
06:07right wing.
06:08And it gets a little scary.
06:09Yeah.
06:10But you're, like, just so resilient with it.
06:11Like, you just go for it.
06:12You welcome it.
06:13You…
06:14What is…
06:15What is that drive?
06:16What is it…
06:17Where is that from?
06:18Well, the drive of not giving a f**k.
06:20First of all, if conservatives are talking about me, they're making money off of my name.
06:24So they're thanking me behind the screen.
06:26You're welcome.
06:27Second of all, if they're talking about me, then they're free to talk about me.
06:32But I don't have to listen.
06:34She just saved me, like, ten of the past years in therapy.
06:37Like, I just didn't remember that.
06:40God, I care about how people think of me.
06:42Oh, wow.
06:43But also, I get a lot of my confidence.
06:45This is going to sound like super f**king cheesy or whatever.
06:47I do get it from drag.
06:48Yeah.
06:49And, like, watching drag.
06:50Because I was really, like, anxious and shy and closed off in high school.
06:55I was basically, like, this, like, anxious femboy who was obsessed with languages and didn't go outside.
07:02Sounds like me in high school.
07:03Yeah.
07:04Literally.
07:05Watching, like, people like you and…
07:10How do I make this not sound like I'm sucking up?
07:13Watching people like…
07:16Oh, dear God.
07:17Honestly, it was kind of, like, life-changing.
07:19It kind of made me be like, oh, okay, it's okay to be confident in myself.
07:22Not giving a f**k is not that hard after you've kind of been dragged across the coals.
07:27After you get dragged across, like, burning coals, being dragged across normal coals, it's a massage.
07:33Yeah.
07:34That's it.
07:35Someone put that in a quote box.
07:36It's a massage.
07:37It's a massage.
07:38This is what happens when, uh, the trans trauma is so deep, we take even, like, mild abuse and, like, it's better than nothing.
07:46Oh, dear God.
07:47After having to deal with so many really heavy things, this seems, like, a bit trivial.
07:53Because, honestly, being somebody that's inspirational to you yet still, like, in my own way has a lot of, like, self-esteem issues or trans, like, just dysphoria and, like, of the society.
08:06It's just so wild to see that I inspired you with, like, the facade I tried to, you know, my armor.
08:13And then that becomes, like, your actual, like, being, which is so cool, like, how that transmutes, like, you don't have to put on the front, you're just you.
08:21And even though I couldn't, like, I'm still trying to find you.
08:24Girl, I'm tearing up.
08:25I'm gonna ruin my mascara.
08:27So, obviously, you've been a public figure for much longer than the slightly less than 10 months that I've been.
08:34So, like, has there ever been any moment that, like, really struggled with that sort of public-facing side?
08:42Honestly, just my being.
08:43Just me being a trans person that's in the spotlight.
08:47It welcomes everyone's opinion.
08:49Because, honestly, I'm a Leo.
08:51I love the spotlight.
08:53I love attention.
08:54I welcome it.
08:56Like, I'm like, come on, let's take a picture.
08:58Exactly.
08:59Not all the time, but if I look cute.
09:01But, yeah, I've never had, like, a really hard time with, like, media or, like, how you've been, like, with, like, literal politics being talked to.
09:12And thrown about your existence and things like that.
09:15Like, I've never had to deal with it that deep.
09:17Thank goodness.
09:18But the night's still young.
09:20It will happen eventually.
09:22It will, I'm sure.
09:23Yeah.
09:24Drag has been, first of all, the only profession I know.
09:27Yeah.
09:28Like, I have not done anything else besides work at The Gap when I was, like, in high school.
09:33Like, as a cashier?
09:34As, like, a folder, cashier, all that stuff.
09:36But, like, I literally don't know how to do anything else.
09:39So, I mean, I had to do drag.
09:41It just came so naturally.
09:42But it's been, like, my best friend for 25 years.
09:45It's been my therapist.
09:46It's saved my life, like, a few times.
09:49Just being able to find drag when I was, like, a struggling kid who knew I was trans but didn't have any resources or examples of what, like, a trans person was except, like, Chu Wong Fu.
10:02What is that?
10:03Because that was a trans story.
10:04Oh, you never, you don't know Chu Wong Fu?
10:05I don't know what that is.
10:06That movie.
10:07Is it good?
10:08Roll the clip.
10:09Let's give it to him, girls.
10:10I don't watch old movies.
10:11You've got to watch it.
10:12It's an old movie.
10:13It's about, like, three drag queens going cross country.
10:14It's hilarious.
10:15Oh!
10:16Oh, I've heard of this.
10:17I know that.
10:18But if you think about it, Chu Wong Fu is a trans story played by three straight men who are acting like drag queens.
10:23But no drag queen is driving cross country in full drag.
10:26That's a trans experience.
10:27Yeah.
10:28So in my head, I was like, oh, you've got to look like that.
10:30Until, like, I saw, like, my first, like, goddess drag performer.
10:34I was, like, 17.
10:36And that was the first, like, life-saving moment because I realized, oh, I could actually look and be, like, how I want to.
10:42Sign me up immediately.
10:43Drag helped me when I had to get out of, you know, doing crystal meth.
10:48Like, getting a job offer at the Baton while I was high was insane.
10:54And it made me quit cold turkey, actually.
10:56Yeah.
10:57Like, threw everything in the toilet.
10:58Incredible.
10:59It's been just so personal to me.
11:00And to see it being so received now is amazing.
11:03But how has, like, a viewer or a trans woman, like, how has drag affected your life?
11:11It really has.
11:12It kind of, like, recontextualized my idea of gender expression, especially as someone who was, like, I was figuring out my own queerness at the time.
11:22Well, not queerness.
11:23I was a fanboy.
11:24I was figuring out the fact that I was actually a woman instead of a lonely, lonely fanboy.
11:29It was kind of during that process when I was also figuring out my own trans identity.
11:32And it completely recontextualized my idea of gender expression, which I think was really helpful for me, especially because, like, not only was it okay in terms of, like, yes, being trans is, like, okay, and it's a natural thing, obviously.
11:45But it also, like, completely changed my idea of, like, the need for gender expression.
11:51Like, I think if drag was not something that I was a consistent spectator of, I would be much more insecure about my own femininity or lack thereof.
12:01Like, you can be a trans woman, and then also you can do drag.
12:05You can, like, wear suits.
12:06You can wear tuxedos.
12:07You can cross-dress as a trans woman with man's clothes.
12:12It's very fun.
12:13I love a good oversized suit as a trans woman.
12:16Yeah, no, I love that.
12:17You couldn't get me in a suit when I was, like, a little boy.
12:20Yeah, no, no, exactly.
12:21I thought it was the same way.
12:23Oof, 21.
12:24When I was 21, I was definitely not on the cover of Teen Vogue.
12:28I was literally high on meth at 21.
12:31Oh, wow.
12:32From, like, 19 to 23, I was fully addicted and white.
12:36Oh, my goodness.
12:37And Continental got me clean.
12:39I got to grow up at 23 having, like, my first job and first house and coming off of heavy addiction,
12:45which was a lot of, like, deep-rooted in, like, body issues and, you know, gender dysphoria
12:51and not really feeling like I could be, you know, the woman I see in myself.
12:55It was pretty scary even being, like, trans.
12:57Like, there was no gender marker change and, you know, you had the M on your password and your ID,
13:01and you just kind of went through life hoping that you could just not be noticed.
13:06How does it feel to be a 21-year-old now in 2025?
13:09I feel really grateful that it is obviously 2025.
13:12Obviously, there is so, so much work to do regarding trans rights and the trans experience.
13:17And especially right now, we are kind of going backwards, which is great.
13:22It's kind of like we're going back to when I was 21.
13:25Oh, God!
13:26Step back 20 years.
13:28Yeah, no.
13:29Hopefully not.
13:30It's very important for everyone to know their queer history.
13:33I do feel so grateful to be able to, like, benefit from all the work that was done
13:39by all the trans advocates and queer rights movements from before my time.
13:45I do feel like I'm just, like, so eternally grateful for all the queer people who came before me
13:51because it's very much like a standing on their shoulders type of thing.
13:54Like, the reason we have all these, like, trans people who are pretty much mainstream now,
13:59especially people like Hunter Schafer and Alex Consani, who was on my wall,
14:03and also follows me on Instagram, which is a really weird dichotomy.
14:07There is still so much, I feel, like, work that needs to be done,
14:11especially with the intersectionality of, like, transphobia and racism and representation.
14:18When you know, like, the patterns of the fall of an empire,
14:24you can kind of see what's going on.
14:27We just demand that we get treated equally.
14:30Yeah.
14:31And by default, we're activists.
14:32Exactly.
14:33And it's not always something, like, we want to hold on to,
14:36and we want to always have to be the one.
14:38So, yeah, it's time, especially in these times, to, like,
14:41make sure we have, like, good people around us.
14:42Yes.
14:43Very much so.
14:44Yeah.
14:45Like, do you have chosen family?
14:46What's your, like, tribe that you have around you?
14:48I would say so, especially after I sort of became,
14:53I like to use the word notorious because I think it's much funnier
14:56and more aesthetically pleasing.
14:58Hey, I started calling myself goddess.
14:59You can start calling yourself notorious.
15:01A lot of people were in the trans community and were also famous
15:07or notorious or influential or whatever.
15:09A lot of them reached out and I'm good friends.
15:13And I didn't expect to become so close to people who I sort of, like,
15:19used to engage with as a fan.
15:21It's kind of really strange to be on the other end of that.
15:25I've really gotten close with a lot of people in the trans community.
15:29Before my notoriety, I have this, like, really tight-knit circle of friends
15:37who are actually, like, online.
15:39But I do feel like online friendships are consistently, like,
15:43undervalued or underappreciated by those outside of them.
15:46It's like, no, I genuinely treasure these people, like, so much.
15:51And it's not like there's a, like, faceless profile.
15:54Like, I know who they are, obviously.
15:56But there's that level of, like, you can really be yourself to, like.
15:59Yeah.
16:00With your online friends that you would be, like, embarrassed to say, like, to.
16:03Yeah.
16:04It just gives it a level of, like, security maybe.
16:07Yeah.
16:08And then you can, like, let down your guard.
16:10For sure.
16:11I'm hopefully meeting some of them in real life.
16:14So if I get murdered, um, don't.
16:17If I get murdered, play, like, Megan Thee Stallion at my funeral or something.
16:21But, um, yeah, no, they've really helped me.
16:25You know what's funny is eventually they figured out,
16:28because there was this, like, paparazzi photo on, like, TMZ or something.
16:31Some of them started to connect the dots before I told them,
16:35especially after I made the threats post that got me, like, viral or whatever.
16:39Uh-huh. I mean, the online, they're the CIA.
16:42Yeah.
16:43I can't find out anything.
16:44It's really funny because the range of reactions was,
16:46oh, I already knew, to you're with me and literally would not believe me
16:50for, like, two hours after I explained everything.
16:52So, yeah.
16:53They're all cool, though.
16:54They were all cool.
16:55But still, like, love you for you.
16:57They're also all gonna freak the out when they realize I'm talking to you.
17:00Hi, friends.
17:02Have you had, like, a good, like, group of friends growing up in high school
17:07or, like, in school?
17:08Like, how was school for you?
17:09High school, I was actually kind of, like, a loner.
17:11The tragic part is I only really, like, made friends with people in my high school
17:14after senior year ended.
17:16Okay.
17:17Because, also, I was in high school during COVID.
17:18Ah.
17:19Yeah.
17:20What's that like?
17:21It was kind of traumatizing and everything.
17:23You had a cool vacation for a couple of weeks?
17:25It was a year we were doing online.
17:27A year? Wow.
17:28I kind of loved it, though.
17:29I was like, I don't have to talk to these .
17:31Completely honest.
17:32Like, I could have stayed locked up for a little while longer.
17:36No.
17:37I was fine.
17:38I was working so much before.
17:39I was like, thank goodness.
17:41So, speaking of being a homebody, so, what does that look like for you?
17:44Especially in terms of, like, self-care.
17:46And I'm a bit of an empath and I can take on other people's energies.
17:50So, sometimes I'll come home after, like, you know, a bunch of trauma dumping
17:54and not know if I'm, like, sad or that's someone else's energy.
17:58So, I'm, like, a big energy rinser.
18:00Like, I love taking showers and, like, water literally cleanses and, like, kind of calms me.
18:04So, I do, like, a lot of, like, baths when I can.
18:07I'm, like, obsessed with, like, skin care.
18:09So, I could just, like, pile on the 17-step Korean skin care and just, like, live my life in a hair mask.
18:16I'm also, like, a nerd.
18:17Like, I like to watch, like, just endless, like, facts or, like, trivia.
18:22I'm, like, obsessed with, like, civilization and world history.
18:25Yeah! No, no, no, no, no, same.
18:27Girl, I…
18:28I watch, like, a bunch of, like, videos about, like, geography, a bunch of different countries.
18:30See?
18:31Yeah, no, I love those videos.
18:32Yeah.
18:33Literally, on my Google main page, it's, like, this map thing.
18:36And you can go from 300 BC till now and see all, like, how civilization changed.
18:41Oh, that is so cool.
18:42It is so cool.
18:43Yeah.
18:44Like, growing up in Hawaii, we were just so colonized.
18:45Mm-hmm.
18:46And didn't, couldn't really, like, explore being Hawaiian.
18:49Yes.
18:50Of course.
18:51But then when I got into it, I was just so fascinated how our, our king and queens…
18:56Yes.
18:57…really were just modeling themselves after this, like, colonization…
19:00Yeah.
19:01…and this, you know, imperialism.
19:02Polynesian!
19:03Sure!
19:04I could literally nerd out on, like, YouTube things about…
19:07Mm-hmm.
19:08And I also watched this, um, I like this podcast called Noble Blood.
19:11Mm.
19:12It's, like, 30 minutes and they show all different histories from all different cultures
19:16and she does a lot of, like, queer history.
19:17Oh, I love that.
19:18Yeah.
19:19Yeah.
19:20Yeah, it's so cool.
19:21I'll send you some.
19:22Oh, my God, you need to, actually.
19:23This is the best part of our interview.
19:24I just love this.
19:25This is crazy that we have something that's in common.
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