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  • 2 days ago
#CinemaJourney
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00:01By nature I'm quite nosy and by nature I'm quite curious.
00:05So for my entire life I've always been the one asking questions.
00:11I have spent so long looking at other people's histories,
00:15it's galling to me that I know nothing about my own.
00:18Award-winning journalist Mark Fennell has become a cornerstone
00:22of Australian television and radio over the past 20 years.
00:26Welcome to the Summer Feed.
00:28Forging a successful career as a documentary maker, writer and presenter.
00:33It's almost like this mosaic, there's something to hide.
00:38Who's making the biggest pizza? Me!
00:41Mark lives in Sydney with his wife Madeline and their two children.
00:45What's that? Can we fit two on each show? I think so.
00:48Outside of my kids and my wife, family is really kind of a black box to me.
00:55I really don't know very much beyond my immediate family. I really don't.
01:01Are you just eating it? Yeah, he's just eating the pineapple.
01:05I can't go out in the world and say the truth of the past matters when examining the British Empire or other people's DNA.
01:11I can't do that and not accept the same lens, right?
01:16There's a real colour palette to this, isn't there?
01:18So where do you think you're going?
01:19I hope I go to Ireland. I don't actually know.
01:22As far as I'm aware, I am half Irish, half ethnically Indian.
01:28The Irish side of my family is really interesting to me because I really don't know anything about it.
01:33You need a bigger bag.
01:34No, this is the perfect amount.
01:36The ethnically Indian bit is confusing because mum is from Singapore.
01:41So culturally, it's a lot of Chinese and Malaysian.
01:47I'm so often the only brown person in the room.
01:49So you kind of get used to the fact that you're always a bit different to people.
01:54So I feel quite like unique would be the nice way of putting it,
01:59but also like kind of lonely out here by myself with this unusual mixture of backgrounds.
02:03Done. All packed.
02:11Seeking to connect with his own family history.
02:14Indians get around, don't they?
02:15They do.
02:17Mark finds a generation traumatised by war.
02:20Shit. I've heard this story passed down before.
02:23It's so much worse than I imagined.
02:26And unearthed tales of forbidden love.
02:28This is scandalous.
02:30It is Romeo and Juliet.
02:31It really is.
02:32It is.
02:33It is, yeah.
02:34And tragic loss.
02:35Oh no.
02:36She dies in squalor.
02:37Yeah.
02:38Yeah.
02:39Yeah.
02:40Yeah.
02:41Yeah.
02:42Yeah.
02:43Yeah.
03:14Born in Sydney in 1985, Mark Fennell is the eldest of two sons, born to Paul Fennell and Shirley Vasanthi Nair.
03:25I think I've inherited curiosity and an interest in people from Mum. I think I've inherited workaholism from Dad. I think I've inherited a healthy love of drama from all my grandparents.
03:36Mum Shirley was born in Singapore, but Mark knows little of the Indian heritage in her family line.
03:45I've never felt like I belong particularly to the Indian side of my family. And yet it's there. You know, it's on my face. It's in my DNA.
03:56My grandmother, Amma, didn't speak a ton of English. I just remember her being really grumpy and angry. And I don't know why. I don't know what happened in her life to make her that way.
04:06My grandfather, Mum's dad, Atar, I don't reckon he ever said a single word to me. He wasn't angry or anything like that. I just don't remember him saying very much.
04:18All we knew about him was that he was a cop in Singapore. So, I'd love to understand my Indian grandparents, why they were like the way they were. Because I actually don't understand that at all.
04:37To unravel the mystery of his grandparents' lives, Mark has travelled to the city-state of Singapore.
04:42It's kind of weird being back in Singapore because we spend so much time here as kids. You know, I'm an outsider here, right? I look like people here, but I'm not from here.
05:02My family's hard to get straight answers out of. You don't know if something's like a real drama or just a perceived drama, because everything exists in the shadows.
05:12Hoping to shine some light on the family story. Nice to meet you. You too.
05:22Mark's meeting researcher Naliza Ibrahim in Singapore's Little India.
05:28There's nothing more terrifying to me than a manila folder. Is it good news or bad news?
05:33No need to be terrified. Here, what I've got is the family tree.
05:40Oh, yeah. It's me. That's you.
05:42Mum.
05:44And her parents are Gobinadhanaya, your grandfather. And that's Gormadi, your grandmother.
05:53I didn't even know her name was Gormadi. Like, I knew her as Amma.
05:56So, I have here a photograph of your grandparents. Oh, wow. Is mum here? No, she wasn't born yet.
06:08Oh, really?
06:09That would be Gormadi. Yes.
06:11Yes. And that's Gobinadhan.
06:13It's the closest I think I've ever seen him to smile, by the way. It's kind of funny to see them as young people, isn't it?
06:19And these are your great-grandparents. So, Lechmi, your great-grandma, and Krishnanaya, your great-grandfather.
06:28So, now, Lechmi is descended from the Chiti Malacans. It's a culture that originated in Malacca, in Malaysia.
06:40Hmm.
06:40When these men from Tamil Nadu, India, mixed, mingled, married, local women.
06:49Does that mean I'm potentially a bit Malaysian?
06:52Ancestrally, yes.
06:53Yeah, right.
06:54The Chiti Malaccan community emerged in the 15th century, when Indian traders visiting the port of Malacca were left waiting for monsoon winds to return home.
07:07During their stay, some formed relationships with local Malay and Chinese women, and over time, a unique culture developed, blending Hindu and Malay traditions, reflected in their religious practices, clothing, and cuisine.
07:22Yeah, I feel like the Malacca Straits had been talked about, but I didn't know what our connection to it was.
07:30Yeah. So, Lechmi, she is one of three sisters. Their mother died when they were very small.
07:39So, their father, he left them with his sister to be looked after by her and her husband in Singapore, because they're very wealthy.
07:52Okay.
07:53Lechmi's very rich uncle had occasionally a driver who would come and drive him around, and this was Krishnanaya.
08:01He became your great-grandfather.
08:05Oh!
08:06And that's how they meet.
08:10Yeah.
08:11So, your great-grandmother, Lechmi, fell in love with Krishnanaya, married him, and the rich uncle wasn't too pleased about that match.
08:23And he banished them, sent them off to India.
08:28Oh, right. Okay. So, is that a caste thing?
08:34It's a status thing, because he was a driver.
08:37Right.
08:37The aunt and uncle, they were of a certain social standing, very well looked upon in society at that time.
08:46So, all in all, not a good match at all.
08:49I mean, who doesn't love a good forbidden love story, right?
08:51Yeah.
08:52Gomadi, your grandmother, was born in India.
08:56Oh, she was born in India?
08:58And then, when they came back to Singapore, they eventually had ten children.
09:04So, I have a photograph here.
09:07Whole clan picture.
09:08Oh, my God. That's everybody.
09:11So, this is your great-grandmother, Lechmi.
09:14This is Krishnanaya, your great-grandfather.
09:18He's a driver.
09:19The unapproved match.
09:24And then, this is Gomadi, your grandmother, and Gobinathan, her husband.
09:31It's quite spread out, isn't it?
09:33You've got pockets of the story in Singapore, pockets of the story in India, pockets of the story in Malaysia.
09:39It's like, they get around.
09:41Indians get around, don't they?
09:43They do.
09:44They say you can find them on the moon.
09:45It was really clarifying today.
09:50When you've got a family where nobody really talks about stuff, then there's language barriers and all that kind of stuff.
09:55Just to be able to have it all laid out and understand how the pieces sit together was really helpful.
10:02My history is a very Singapore story.
10:08And it skirts to other countries, but it comes back to this teeny, tiny, sweaty little island filled with money.
10:15Looking further into his Singapore story, Mark wants to know about the world his grandparents lived in, hoping it will explain why he never developed a close relationship with them.
10:31I know my grandparents lived through the Japanese occupation of Singapore, but no-one can pinpoint what's actually happened, because no-one will talk about it.
10:42Yeah, so I think there was quite a lot of interesting research for you.
10:47Mark's consulting author, Roman Bose, who has extensively researched Singapore's history during World War II.
10:54Is there anything you can tell me about my grandfather?
10:56Um, actually quite a lot, uh, your grandfather and your grandmother, Gobinathan, Naya, and Gomuthi.
11:06They got married at a very, very young age, and they were living very, very close to the port area.
11:13He was working in the harbour as a policeman in the harbour police.
11:17We then come to the Second World War.
11:20The outbreak of the war in Singapore and Malaya in December 1941 was quite traumatic.
11:28The Japanese attack on Singapore was part of Japan's broader strategy to expand its empire and take control of Southeast Asia from the British.
11:38It began with a devastating bombing assault that caused widespread destruction to the city and harbour areas, killing 61 people.
11:46And let me show you a document from that period.
11:52Oh, wow.
11:55Singapore bombed by the Japanese first air raid pictures.
12:00At 4am on December 8th, the air walk first came to Singapore.
12:05Japanese bombers flying high have repeatedly bombed Singapore without discrimination between military objectives and civilian property.
12:12They did it at 4am in the morning.
12:15Yes.
12:16So all these people would have been asleep and had no idea.
12:18Completely.
12:20And let me show you a map so you'll get a better idea of what it looks like.
12:27So this is where your grandparents would have been living.
12:32And how close it is to the areas that were bombed.
12:36Yeah.
12:37Oh, my God.
12:38Yeah.
12:38When Japanese forces captured Singapore on the 15th of February 1942, it was the beginning of a brutal occupation.
12:50Due to long-standing hostilities between Japan and China, the Chinese community suffered the harshest treatment, with thousands killed on suspicion of being anti-Japanese.
13:01The Indian population were generally treated better.
13:07Those who sought India's independence from Britain even collaborated with the Japanese.
13:12The impact of the invasion on Mark's own family is revealed in a recorded oral history from Mark's great-grandaunt, Salachi.
13:22So this is Lechmeer's sister?
13:25That's right, Salachi.
13:26So I have to warn you, it is in Tamil.
13:28So have a listen, but I'll show you a transcript in English.
13:31Okay.
13:32And this is a transcript of that.
13:47Father's house was in Pirat Road.
13:49We were there at 12 noon when a mortar fell in Chitty Road.
13:53After the Japanese occupied Singapore, they came into the house and we all declared we were Indians and the Japanese left.
13:59The Japanese could not stand the Chinese, Caucasians and Eurasians.
14:05Their heads were placed on stakes.
14:08Jesus.
14:09After the Japanese occupied Singapore, they came into the house and declared,
14:13Oh, shit, I've heard this story passed down before.
14:17Dammit, I promised myself there's one in the show that would make me cry.
14:20I've heard this story talked about in the past.
14:23The Japanese don't disturb the Tamils.
14:26They don't disturb the Indian girls.
14:27Indians took in the Chinese girls and raised them as Indians.
14:32You, I'll finish it in a sec.
14:34I'll finish it in a sec.
14:35But, like, you know this, Singapore's an interesting place.
14:37It's got all these different cultures.
14:38And they all pretend like they get on.
14:40But this is a history.
14:41And the history's not fair.
14:43Sorry.
14:44I don't know why I'm reacting like this.
14:46Sorry.
14:46There's always been this sort of unspoken thing that my grandparents, we know that they saw terrible things.
14:58But we've never been able to piece together what they saw.
15:01So, life under the Japanese was very difficult because there was obviously a massive lack of food, rationing going on.
15:10And they had to do whatever it took in order to survive the war.
15:15What does a cop do under Japanese occupation?
15:17Your grandfather, we believe that he carried on as a police officer, protecting the docks, working for the Japanese.
15:26And there was huge amounts of looting going on because obviously there was a scarcity of food.
15:32So, crime was very, very high.
15:34After the war ended, there were war crime trials in Singapore.
15:39So, the British were able to identify the main atrocities that took place.
15:47And nowhere in any of those records is your grandfather mentioned.
15:53Nowhere.
15:54That's good to know.
15:55Nowhere.
15:56So, from 1947, we've got records of your grandfather being promoted and becoming a plainclothes detective.
16:03JC, that part, we've always talked about him as a detective.
16:06And not to forget, he was also awarded a long service award.
16:11Now, if you're given a long service award, you have to be of good character.
16:15So, that tells us that basically he was not involved in any nefarious activities during the war.
16:23You've got me convinced.
16:25It means a lot.
16:26It really does.
16:26Thank you so much.
16:27Cheers.
16:29Now, my grandparents, to understand what they had lived through, it sort of snuck up on me.
16:36I'm not, by nature, a particularly emotional person.
16:40It's just a really horrific piece of history.
16:44I'm more convinced than ever that some of the more dysfunctional aspects of my family are rooted in trauma.
16:52But when you get these bits and pieces of my grandparents' story and start to put yourselves in their shoes,
16:58you look at them differently.
17:00Probably with more compassion.
17:07Following his ancestry to Malaysia, Mark will discover a fascinating cultural identity and a whole new family line.
17:16Documentary filmmaker Mark Fennell has travelled from Singapore to Malaysia's historic port city of Malacca
17:29to explore his great-grandmother Lechemi's Malaysian ancestry.
17:36Lechemi was raised in Singapore by her aunt and uncle,
17:39who disapproved of her marriage to Krishna Naya, who'd been their driver.
17:43I don't know anything about my great-grandmother, Lechemi.
17:47I don't know what her life was like.
17:49I don't know where she ended up.
17:52I wanted to find out more information about what happened to her.
17:57Lechemi was of Chetty Malaccan heritage,
18:00a unique culture formed through the intermarriage of Indian traders and local Malays.
18:05Mark has arranged to see Mr. Pesupathi Pillai from the Chetty Malaccan community.
18:16Hi, Mark.
18:16It's nice to meet you.
18:17Nice meeting you.
18:18Have a seat.
18:20They're meeting at the only Chetty Malaccan restaurant in Malaysia.
18:24A distinctive part of the culture is its food.
18:29Will that be okay?
18:31Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:31Oh, all right.
18:32It's so good.
18:32I'm hungry.
18:33Okay, okay.
18:36All right.
18:36So, I was told that if I wanted to know about my great-grandmother,
18:42Lechemi, I should come find you.
18:45Yes.
18:46Lechemi's grandfather is my great-grandfather.
18:51We're related.
18:52Yes.
18:52Oh!
18:55Lovely to meet you.
18:56Just a nice name.
18:57Oh, wow.
18:59So, maybe I can show you some photos of how I remember her.
19:04Wait, so you remember my great-grandmother?
19:06Yes.
19:07Very clearly.
19:08I have a photo of her here.
19:10Hmm.
19:11This one.
19:12This is Lechemi.
19:13Oh, really?
19:14Ah.
19:15Oh, wow.
19:17The lady over here.
19:18Hmm.
19:19This is her elder sister, Salachi.
19:21That's Salachi.
19:23Ah, that's Salachi.
19:24I've heard her voice.
19:25Oh.
19:26I've heard her voice.
19:26I see.
19:27Okay.
19:27Yeah.
19:28Lechemi and her sisters remained deeply connected to their Chetty Malacan culture,
19:33travelling regularly for religious festivals and to visit family.
19:37They used to come over to Malacan, from Singapore, quite often.
19:43And they were put up in my grandfather's house.
19:46Oh, my God.
19:47Ah, and so that's how we know them.
19:49Hmm.
19:50So what was she like?
19:52Ah, the thing I remember about your great-grandmother Lechemi is, ah, she's really friendly.
19:58Really friendly.
19:59She's very easy to get along with.
20:02Because we are all kids at that time.
20:04Yeah.
20:04Actually, I have a transcript here by your grand-an.
20:09Oh, okay.
20:10So this is from the oral history that Salachi got.
20:13Yes, correct.
20:13The oral history recorded by Lechemi's sister, Salachi, includes the story of their upbringing.
20:20I was born in Kampong Kampoa, which is Singapore now.
20:26After mother died, father's akka, older sister, raised us, got us married.
20:31We were three sisters, Lechemi, Thangam, and Salachi.
20:35I was the eldest.
20:36Lived with relatives from Malacca.
20:39My mama, uncle, lawyer, Pakrisami Pele.
20:43It was his house, and we all lived there.
20:46Life then, no worries.
20:49Happy.
20:50But even though parents were not there, a Thai and husband looked after us like her own.
20:57So, what I'm going to show you next is, well, this person, Pakrisami Pele.
21:05So this is the man that raised my great-grandmother and her two sisters.
21:11Huh.
21:13Great moustache, right?
21:15Yeah.
21:16Well, I have one more final thing to show you.
21:19Okay.
21:20Right.
21:22It's the obituary from my great-grandmother.
21:24Exactly.
21:26And it's from the day before I was born.
21:28Yeah.
21:31Lechmi Naya.
21:31Yeah.
21:32Passed away peacefully on the 31st of May, 1985.
21:36Guileless, loving, cheerful to the very end.
21:39Her legacy is a list of names.
21:43Sons, daughters, grandsons.
21:46Mums, though.
21:48There's something quite powerful that your legacy is people.
21:52Yes.
21:52True.
21:53In some ways, it's more powerful than words, isn't it?
21:55Correct.
21:56All of these lives.
21:57Yeah.
21:57I wish I'd met her.
22:04Oh.
22:05Food.
22:06Oh, okay.
22:08Finally.
22:09To find this little pocket of Indians here, Malacca, that built something unique, that
22:21built a culture all of their own, it's kind of a microcosm of what makes Indians interesting
22:27to me.
22:28We adapt.
22:29We survive.
22:30We build new things.
22:32I find that inspiring.
22:33I think I will always feel like a latent sense of not quite belonging.
22:52I don't think that's going anywhere.
22:54But one of the things I love about night markets is that I always feel at home.
23:00It's the melee that makes it.
23:04You've got Indian, Chinese, Malay.
23:07It's all there.
23:08And no one's trying to harmonize it.
23:10You have to embrace the mess of it.
23:13And it made me think that that is maybe how I should view me.
23:17Be the night market.
23:19Embrace the fact that you are the mess.
23:21Embrace the fact that there is nobody who is this unique combination of cultures and a
23:29sort of traumas.
23:31I think it's taught me to embrace that rather than bemoan it.
23:35This is what my childhood actually tastes like.
23:37Having explored his Indian roots in Singapore and Malaysia, Mark's now eager to look into
23:50the Irish ancestry on his father's side.
23:53When I was a kid, I used to kind of spend every weekend with my Irish grandparents.
23:57It was the weirdest thing.
23:58I just loved them because they were so, they were like sitcom characters.
24:04You know, like old married couple sitcom characters.
24:06And I was like this tiny chubby brown kid in the middle of it going, how am I related to this?
24:13My grandmother was always just this warm, bouncy personality.
24:17And I just have such fond memories of them.
24:21But I only ever remember them talking about Ireland in tiny bits and pieces.
24:25And I remember them just being grateful to have left.
24:30Mark's paternal grandparents were Patrick Fennell and Mary Catherine Wool.
24:35Known as Maisie and also nicknamed Pat.
24:39They were both born in Ireland and migrated to Australia in 1960.
24:47Before heading to Ireland to explore more, Mark's calling his uncle John in Sydney, who's
24:54the family historian.
24:56Mark.
24:58Hello, how are you?
24:59Really, really well.
25:01How is it in Singapore?
25:02A little warm?
25:04Yeah.
25:05I figure I have to go to Ireland next.
25:07Yes, indeed you do.
25:09So, I have grandma's birth certificate.
25:13The only bits I have to go on at the moment are obviously her name, Mary Catherine.
25:16Which, by the way, you probably didn't know she was called Mary.
25:20No!
25:21My entire memory of her is being called Pat.
25:23That's the funny parts about being Irish and being called Mary.
25:26And then you become Maisie because every kid in the class is called Mary.
25:30And then you go to England and because you're Irish, you get called Pat.
25:36As you do.
25:36So, just looking at this birth certificate, what I've got is obviously Mary Catherine,
25:42grandma, her parents, Frederick Wall, Katie Wall, who used to be Katie Cummins by the looks
25:49of things.
25:50Yep, that's correct.
25:51And the location is Limerick Junction.
25:54Yeah, which is in Tipperary.
25:56And if we look a little further into her life, towards the back end of the war years, she's
26:03in England and she joins the army.
26:06We've got her entry documents.
26:08Can you email that to me?
26:10I will email it to you.
26:11I'll do it straight away.
26:12So, looks like I'm going to Tipperary.
26:14Sounds like a great trip, mate.
26:16I wish I was joining you.
26:16Grandmother Maisie's military record includes details of her early life.
26:32So, these are the notes down the side that they keep on her.
26:37Wall is an orphan.
26:40I had no idea she was an orphan.
26:44She lost her father when she was three months old.
26:46And her mother was 16.
26:49No word of a lie.
26:50This is all news to me.
27:01To further investigate the surprising revelations about his grandmother Maisie,
27:07Mark has travelled to Ireland.
27:11I love being in Ireland.
27:13Ireland is sort of this wonderful adventure to me.
27:17It's mysterious and it's beautiful.
27:21And every small town looks like it's had a murder solved by a middle-aged woman.
27:27The whole place is magical to me.
27:29In Tipperary, 190 kilometres south-west of the Irish capital, Dublin,
27:38Mark has arranged to meet historian Dr. Dennis Munnane.
27:42Hello.
27:43Hello.
27:44Welcome to St. Michael's Parish Church.
27:47For you, it has been a long way to Tipperary.
27:49It really has.
27:50It's incredible.
27:50I will be able to tell you some things about your Tipperary heritage.
27:56Which very much hangs on one particular family, the Cummins family.
28:01So what we have here is a simplified family tree.
28:05Yeah.
28:06There you are.
28:07And the member of the family that's relevant to you is Catherine.
28:13She's born in 1900.
28:15And because her mother is Catherine, she becomes known as Dolly.
28:20Okay.
28:20So Dolly Cummins.
28:21Yes.
28:22So that's my great-grandmother.
28:25Yes.
28:25Got it.
28:26Yes.
28:26She moved into Tipperary town and she meets an English soldier, Frederick Wool.
28:31Tipperary also had an important military barracks.
28:33Because the Irish wanted to be independent from the United Kingdom.
28:37So that's why you had soldiers here.
28:40Most Irish people were nationalists.
28:43We don't know how Frederick and Dolly met.
28:46We don't know how the courtship was conducted.
28:49But it would have been and was very dangerous.
28:52Because the Lincolnshire Regiment, of which he was part, was hated.
28:56In January 1919, Irish members of the British Parliament assembled in Dublin and defiantly
29:07proclaimed themselves the Parliament of Ireland.
29:10This act triggered the Irish War of Independence, prompting an increase in British troops to Irish
29:17towns.
29:18One of those soldiers was Frederick Wool, Mark's great-grandfather.
29:22So the romance between Frederick Wool and Dolly Cummins, it wasn't just a kind of a passing
29:30fancy, because this is the church registry here.
29:34If you read that there at the bottom.
29:36Married Frederick Wool to Catherine Cummins.
29:41Cummins.
29:42And the date is the 9th of January, and it's 1922.
29:46And they were married here, but not at that altar.
29:50Because the wedding would have been very low-key, quite surreptitious, it would have been at
29:56that side altar.
29:57But the parish priest at the time was unusual, in that he had a record of being very partial
30:02to the British Army.
30:03So a secret wedding.
30:06Yes.
30:07Wow.
30:08This is an incredible...
30:09It is Robey and Juliet.
30:10It really is.
30:12But pushing it forward is, of course, the political situation.
30:18And so this is a newspaper cutting.
30:21So this is from the Evening Telegraph.
30:24February 15, 1922.
30:26Troops in Tipperary leaving barracks and place taken by IRA.
30:30Yes.
30:32The 1st Battalion of the Lincoln Regiment is announced to leave Tipperary tomorrow for
30:36Innes Killen and the Currar.
30:38Yeah.
30:38That's why the wedding is taking place on the 9th of January, because just about a month
30:43later, all of the British Army, all of the British police, it's draw.
30:47The Brits go back to Northern Ireland and the IRA take over their barracks.
30:52Yes.
30:55The war ended with a treaty signed in December 1921, paving the way for the partition of Ireland.
31:0126 counties formed the Irish Free State, the other six formed Northern Ireland and remained
31:08part of the United Kingdom.
31:11In the midst of all this, Forbidden Lovers, Catholic Dolly and Protestant Fred were beginning
31:18a family.
31:19And this is a photograph of her great-grandparents, John Frederick Wool and Dolly, and their first
31:27child, Lillian, born 1923.
31:29And that's my grandmother's oldest sister?
31:33Yes.
31:34And then in 1925, the regiment gets moved back to England.
31:40But when she then became pregnant with her second baby, Dolly came back to Ireland and
31:47to her parents.
31:48Second baby is my grandmother?
31:50Yes.
31:50Maisie.
31:51Maisie.
31:52Frederick did follow them to Ireland and did see the baby.
31:56But that would have been the last time.
31:59So my grandmother had one meeting with her father?
32:03That would appear to be the case.
32:05When she was a baby and that was that?
32:06That would appear to be the case.
32:08But we do have this photograph, which is of the two sisters, Lillian and Maisie.
32:13Your grandmother and your grandaunt.
32:16Oh, my goodness.
32:17And that was taken at Limerick Junction.
32:20So that's my grandma.
32:22Yes.
32:23For the record.
32:24She made that face to the very end.
32:26Oh, right.
32:28If she wasn't happy with you.
32:30And you knew her.
32:31That's the face.
32:31Yeah, yeah.
32:32I knew her well.
32:33Yes.
32:37So many things have been discovered in one conversation.
32:41Like to sit in the room where my great-grandmother got married in a secret marriage.
32:49You don't expect this stuff in your own story.
32:51You just don't.
32:53Then you have to kind of take a minute to go,
32:57Grandma's dad, Frederick Wall, only came to see her once.
33:06It's so much worse than I imagined in some ways.
33:10So much worse.
33:15Mark will soon discover the shocking truth about his great-grandfather, Fred,
33:20and a heartbreaking death that shatters the family.
33:27Documentary maker and presenter Mark Fennell
33:33has come to the city of Limerick in Ireland
33:36hoping to discover what became of his great-grandfather, Frederick Wall.
33:40Hello, Mark.
33:41Who seemingly abandoned his family in 1925.
33:45And take a seat.
33:48At the People's Museum of Limerick,
33:50Mark's consulting genealogist, Katrina Crowe.
33:53Actually, if we start with your great-grandfather, Fred Wall.
33:58In 1925, with the birth of your grandmother, Maisie,
34:03Fred takes leave and he goes and visits her at the junction.
34:09Now, soon after that, then, he goes back to England
34:12and the Wall family history report suggests that he deserts.
34:18Oh, really?
34:18Mm-hmm.
34:19Wow.
34:19And he enlists with the Northamptonshire Regiment, but under an alias.
34:25What?
34:26What?
34:27So he has a fake name as well?
34:29So, now, there aren't any official military records to confirm these details,
34:35but there is a specific document
34:38which gives us some information on where he was from 1928.
34:42Okay.
34:44Shanghai?
34:44Shanghai?
34:45So, this is a Shanghai municipal police record.
34:52Frederick Wall.
34:53He joins the police force in Shanghai in 1928.
34:56Is that what that means?
34:57Exactly.
34:57Exactly.
34:58And he's there until 1935.
34:59Mm-hmm.
35:00That's wild.
35:02That's incredible.
35:04Oh, I love this.
35:05Marital status unknown.
35:07Children know.
35:09So, that's a lie.
35:10My grandmother, when she entered the army, they listed her as an orphan,
35:16and they said her father died when she was three months old.
35:19So, she was abandoned by him, for sure, but he definitely wasn't dead.
35:26All right, well, I feel like I'm in a rollercoaster now, so what happens next?
35:30He returns to England, and we know in 1938 that he's in London,
35:36and he marries for a second time to a lady called Barbara Matthews.
35:41Wow.
35:42I think we'll now move over to your great-grandmother, Dolly.
35:46Yes.
35:47By the 1930s, she has had no contact with Fred for ten years,
35:53and the next document will tell you what happens.
35:57Is this a marriage registration?
35:59Catherine Cummins.
36:01So, this is Dolly.
36:03She marries somebody called Stephen White.
36:06What is interesting about it is that her name is given as Catherine Cummins,
36:11so she's under her maiden name, and she's described as a spinster.
36:17Did she ever actually divorce, Paul?
36:20Divorce really wasn't an option.
36:22Okay.
36:23She's keeping that information secret.
36:26Strictly speaking, it's a case of bigamy.
36:28Oh, my God, it is, isn't it?
36:30Jesus.
36:31Right?
36:32She did believe that Fred was dead,
36:36and generally in the Woolf family, that was the belief.
36:39Yeah, I mean, it's not an unreasonable conclusion, is it?
36:42So, your next document will tell you what happened next for Dolly, your great-grandmother.
36:50This is a death certificate from 1943 for Catherine White, Dolly, my great-grandmother.
36:59She dies at 43.
37:03What is that?
37:04Like, what does she die of?
37:07Thysis.
37:08Mm.
37:09It's referring to consumption or tuberculosis.
37:13TB.
37:14Really, throughout the 19th century, and as late as the 1940s, tuberculosis, it's rampant in Ireland.
37:22Mm.
37:26One of the main reasons was the living conditions of the poorer classes.
37:31They're living in these lanes, these back lanes off the main streets.
37:36Mm.
37:36And the lanes were overcrowded in damp, dirty, dilapidated houses.
37:43They're poorly ventilated.
37:45There's poor sanitation.
37:46And all of this encourages the spread of TB.
37:53So, she dies in squalor.
37:57So, shortly after the death of your great-grandmother, Dolly, the news is broken to her daughter, Maisie, your grandmother.
38:11So, she's just 17, and she's recently moved to England for work.
38:17Mm.
38:19So, who's this sent from?
38:20From Mary.
38:22I think she's a neighbour from Limerick Junction.
38:24Dear Maisie, I'm sorry for the sad news I have to send you.
38:30Your mother died about 8 o'clock on the 30th of March in the evening.
38:36So, then do...
38:37Do not fret.
38:39And do not fret about her as she is better dead
38:43than to be lying there waiting on death
38:48and looking at those dying around her.
38:52So, she was conscious to the last.
38:56She died a happy death.
38:59So, this is how my grandmother found out how my mother died.
39:05Oh, God.
39:08What a horrific way to find out your mother's dead.
39:12Hmm.
39:12I can't, I can't, I can't get over, uh...
39:17Do not fret about her as she was better dead.
39:22So, it really was an awful way to die.
39:29Hmm.
39:31I wonder how she reacted.
39:32This is death by poverty.
39:39And there is no greater lie than a happy death.
39:46We've followed the life of Dolly to its natural end.
39:51But you might like to look in further detail at the Woolf family.
39:55Okay.
39:55Fred has proven to be an interesting character
39:58and, likewise, his father, Charlie, would be worth looking at.
40:03Charlie was born in Yorkshire in 1872.
40:07I guess I'm going to England.
40:12Looking back another generation to Fred's father,
40:16Mark's beginning the search for his two-times-great-grandfather,
40:19Charles Wool, in the online records.
40:211872.
40:24Okay.
40:25Well, there's only one Charles Wool,
40:27born in Yorkshire in 1872.
40:31Looks like he was registered in a place called Beverley.
40:34East Riding.
40:35So, I guess that's where I'd better go.
40:43Mark has travelled to Yorkshire, England.
40:46In the town of Beverley,
40:47he's meeting genealogist Grace Tabern.
40:50Shall we go?
40:50Go in, yes.
40:52Who's been examining the life of Charles Wool.
40:56Your second great-grandfather, Charles,
40:58was born in a little village called Beswick,
41:01which is about 15 minutes north of Beverley.
41:04His dad was a farm labourer
41:06and Charles worked on the farms as well.
41:10See what you think of that.
41:13It's a document where he enters military service.
41:15That's right.
41:16We can see here that he's 19 years old and a farm servant
41:20and enlisted in 1892.
41:24So, we know that in 1895,
41:26he was posted down to Devonport,
41:29which is 600 kilometres south.
41:32So, right on the south coast.
41:33Okay.
41:33And we know, according to the Wool family history,
41:37he met a girl there called Fanny Cloak,
41:39who he was close to.
41:41But he didn't stay with Fanny Cloak.
41:44Okay.
41:45So, I'm going to give you another document.
41:48See what you think of it.
41:50Okay.
41:51So, in 1903,
41:53your second great-grandfather, Charles,
41:55marries your second great-grandmother, Lillian.
41:59In Beverley.
42:00Here.
42:01Here.
42:01And five months later,
42:04your great-grandfather, Fred, was born.
42:08Shotgun wedding.
42:10Probably.
42:11I'm going to show you something else,
42:13which will make you even more puzzled.
42:18So, here we've got Charles and Lillian with his children.
42:23And this is the timeline for Charles and Maryam Wallace.
42:28So, this is here in Beverley.
42:30This is in Beverley.
42:31And where is this all happening?
42:32This is in Sunderland.
42:36Hold on.
42:38Has he got multiple relationships going on at the same time?
42:45It would appear so.
42:47In 1905, in July,
42:51Eleanor Wool is born in Sunderland.
42:54And in August 1905,
42:56Lawrence is born in Beverley.
42:58Lawrence, his mother was Lillian.
43:03And then Eleanor, his mother was Mary.
43:07Oh, this family, honestly?
43:12Okay, wow.
43:13So...
43:14This is 170 kilometres apart.
43:17It's not round the corner.
43:19I shouldn't laugh.
43:21I shouldn't laugh.
43:22This is scandalous.
43:23So, he's got two families going on at the same time in different parts of the country.
43:32Oh, my God.
43:34So, okay.
43:35Forgive me.
43:36I'm a gog.
43:37These random wool children, sprinkled across the British hands,
43:44would they have known about each other?
43:47That's something we don't know.
43:49Wow!
43:49Did he stay with Maryam?
43:54Did he stay with Lillian?
43:56Oh, yeah.
43:58You need to do some digging.
44:05What is my reaction to my great-great-grandfather?
44:07Um...
44:08I don't know.
44:10Like, it would have just been an unbelievably complicated thing to manage.
44:15How he managed to have these multiple kids in two families
44:22separated by hundreds of kilometres is mind-boggling to me.
44:27It's entirely possible that he was a cat and a charmer and capable of it.
44:31It's also possible that he was young and he got in over his head
44:35and he just tried to make it work.
44:38Did Fred know about his dad's two families?
44:43If he did, does that shape his attitude to family?
44:47Does that make it easier for him to walk away from Maisie and Lillie?
44:52All you can do is try and fill in the gaps.
45:00Filling in the gaps of his Irish ancestry,
45:04an unexpected twist will rock Mark to the core.
45:08MUSIC PLAYS
45:10Journalist Mark Fennell is in Beverley, Yorkshire,
45:17piecing together the story of his two-times great-grandfather,
45:21Charles Wool,
45:22who led a double life,
45:24juggling families in different parts of the country.
45:27Lovely to meet you.
45:29Mark has arranged to meet historian Dr Laura King.
45:32I am curious to know what you can tell me.
45:36OK, so...
45:37And terrified, by the way.
45:40We found a bit more about the family in 1911.
45:44They were living here in Beverley.
45:45OK.
45:46So Charles, Charlie was living with Lillian and their son, Fred.
45:50Yep.
45:50Your great-grandad.
45:52And Mary-Anne is still living up in Sunderland.
45:56So we've got a document from the following year
45:59to give you a sense of what they're up to.
46:01The Beverley Recorder from 1912.
46:07Prize baby.
46:09A competition for the healthiest and best-kept child
46:13has been won by Cyril Wool,
46:16an eight-month child of Mr and Mrs Charles Wool.
46:20What do you have to do to be considered
46:21the happiest and healthiest child in Beverley?
46:25Who knows quite what the criteria were, right?
46:27But probably a nice, chubby, healthy-looking baby.
46:32High-sweating baby!
46:34I love it!
46:34Yeah.
46:36So this...
46:36OK, so Cyril would be great-grandfather Fred's younger sibling.
46:41Yeah.
46:41Is that right?
46:41His younger brother.
46:42Yeah, right.
46:43To Lillian and Charles.
46:44But it didn't continue quite so nicely.
46:48If we have a look at the next document...
46:50Oh, what is this?
46:51Oh, is this a death certificate?
46:571919.
46:59Lillian Wall, female, 34 years.
47:03Can I ask you what that is?
47:05Acute salpingitis.
47:07So that's an infection to her reproductive system.
47:11And there's a number of reasons.
47:13We don't quite know what happened,
47:14but that can be to do with a miscarriage
47:17or an attempted abortion.
47:20Right.
47:20That's very sad.
47:22Really sad.
47:24Yeah.
47:24So Frederick is 15 years old when Lillian and his mum dies.
47:28And they've got Cyril, who's even younger.
47:31So he's about seven.
47:32Seven.
47:33Oh, that's awful.
47:35The sadness continues, I'm afraid.
47:36Oh, God.
47:38Oh, no.
47:40Yeah.
47:41Oh, no.
47:43Cyril Wall, male, seven years.
47:47Son of Charles Wall, fracture of the base of the skin.
47:50Scal, accidentally killed.
47:53He's seven years old.
47:55How did that happen?
47:56So what we know is that he was playing with his friends on, we think, an iron gate.
48:02And he, unfortunately, got trapped.
48:05His head got trapped between the wall and the gate.
48:08Unfortunately, he died the next day in hospital.
48:11So in the space of one year, 1919, Frederick's mother and younger brother die.
48:16Yeah.
48:17Oh, that's awful.
48:19And for Charles as well, right?
48:20He's lost his wife and his son.
48:23Yeah, that's awful.
48:25But there is a twist to the tale.
48:28Charles does marry again.
48:30Right.
48:31In 1932.
48:33This is the last will and testament of me, Charlie Wool, in contemplation of my marriage with Fanny Cloak.
48:40I give to the said Fanny Cloak the sum of 150 pounds.
48:45Have you come across Fanny before?
48:46Yeah, Fanny Cloak's come up before.
48:48She was a sweetheart when he was down in Devonport.
48:51That's it.
48:52That one.
48:52So all his different relationships and he ends up with Fanny Cloak.
48:58I give to Dolly Wool of Railway Cottage, Limerick Junction.
49:03The balance standing to my account.
49:05So Charlie Wool, my great-great-grandfather, gives money to his son's wife.
49:17That's it.
49:18Dolly, my abandoned great-grandmother of Tipperary.
49:25That is very intriguing.
49:28What do you think is going on here with this?
49:30Well, it's an interesting one.
49:31He's not giving money to his son, Fred.
49:33He's not giving money to Fred, is he?
49:34Yeah.
49:35Fred's nowhere to be seen and assumed dead by the family.
49:38He's not giving any money to any of his other children, but he's giving money to Dolly, his daughter-in-law,
49:44trying to make sure she's okay with her two children in Ireland.
49:47I think Charlie may think Fred's dead, but I've seen records of Frederick Wool being a police officer in Shanghai until 1935.
49:57Yeah.
50:00Unfortunately, just seven weeks after they got married, he made this will.
50:05Charles dies, age 59, of a heart infection.
50:10I don't know what to feel about Charles and Frederick Wool.
50:16I really don't.
50:16So, we've got one last document for you to have a little look at.
50:21Do you want to see this photo?
50:29That's my grandmother.
50:33Who was that?
50:36No.
50:37What do you think?
50:38She did get to meet him.
50:47How does this happen?
50:48How does this happen?
50:49So, what we've pieced together is that Fred returned to Beverley in 1959.
50:59Your grandmother was on the cusp of emigrating to Australia.
51:04Her relatives got hold of her and said,
51:06Your dad, he's turned off.
51:09He's not good.
51:10He's turned off.
51:10It's so weird.
51:13This photo is from a bit later.
51:14This is from the 70s when she returned to England on a holiday to see her family.
51:19That's the woman I remember.
51:24That one there.
51:26Big, toothy green, that's that my grandma.
51:28Yeah.
51:29I've thought this whole time that she'd never seen him again.
51:33Oh, that's wild.
51:38Thank you for this.
51:41This is very special, so I appreciate it.
51:48I'm just speechless.
51:49There's a lot of awful things that have happened in this family.
51:55On both sides of my family.
52:01But I got one happy ending.
52:02She got one happy ending.
52:10You can't do this process and not be changed by it.
52:16You can't.
52:17It's humbling.
52:19To realise that you are one small thread in a very big tapestry.
52:24It's just a recognition that some really wild and possibly ill-advised decisions were made that resulted in me.
52:36I wouldn't be here had a young English soldier not padded off with an Irish girl at the peak of the war of independence in Ireland.
52:46I wouldn't be here if the Japanese soldiers in Singapore had decided to kill the Indians and instead of the Chinese.
52:52And you cannot help but see yourself and your own children differently for that.
53:01All of these threads that have taken me all around the world, they just tie together in a knot around this one picture for me.
53:14They really do.
53:16And that one face.
53:17Next time on Who Do You Think You Are?
53:30So he just deserted.
53:31He left.
53:32With 14 kids.
53:33Matt Nabel discovers tales of desertion and hardship.
53:37He's lost everything again.
53:39Okay, so he's down a jar.
53:41And a stunning secret.
53:43None of these guys seen anything like my father.
53:45Nothing.
53:46That will rewrite...
53:47Jesus.
53:48...his whole family story.
53:51Did not see that coming.
53:52At all.
53:53Jesus.
53:54Amen.
53:55Amen.
53:56Amen.
53:57Amen.
53:58Amen.
53:59Amen.
54:00Amen.
54:01Amen.
54:02Amen.
54:03Amen.
54:04Amen.
54:05Amen.
54:06Amen.
54:07Amen.
54:08Amen.
54:09Amen.
54:10Amen.
54:11Amen.
54:12Amen.
54:13Amen.
54:14Amen.
54:15Amen.
54:16Amen.
54:18Amen.
54:19Amen.
54:20Amen.
54:21Amen.
54:22Amen.