- 6/24/2025
Elite leadership isn’t just about vision—it’s about action, resilience, and the relentless pursuit of growth. At Fortune’s exclusive Fuel Up With Fortune panel in Cannes, Snap Inc. EMEA President Ronan Harris and Mars Wrigley North America President Anton Vincent share their top leadership learnings and what truly sets outperformers apart.
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00:00We've got a fantastic panel with fantastic guests, and Anton Vincent is the president of Mars, Ronan Harris, president of Snapchat, and this panel in particular is going to be focused on leadership, as I said.
00:11And that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
00:14So Jamie Dimon, the JP Morgan CEO, was asked about what his successor would need when he eventually steps down, and he mentioned work ethic, people skills, determination, grit.
00:30Humility, ability to form teams, courage, constantly observing the world and thinking what can be done better.
00:37And that's a long list, and it's a big job.
00:40We don't all run JP Morgan, but those are some key traits, I think, which a lot of leaders aspire to have.
00:50And it's a personal journey for a lot of people.
00:53So what are your particular non-negotiable behaviors that you have used over your career to reach the goals and reach the position that you are currently in?
01:03Pastel shades of green, I think.
01:04Exactly right.
01:05That's the key.
01:06That is the key.
01:07We didn't plan this, by the way.
01:08I'll start.
01:09I think for me it's pretty simple.
01:10I think it's three things.
01:11First of all, it's just accountability.
01:12I mean, at the end of the day as a leader, you have to be absolutely accountable.
01:15Now, how you execute that can come in a lot of ways, but at the end of the day, there has to be someone where the buck stops.
01:21And so I've always believed that that was me in whatever role I was in as well.
01:24That's one thing.
01:25I think the second piece, and I think it was very inherent in Jamie's list, was just insatiable curiosity.
01:30Because the one thing I know that what's going to happen, everything's going to change.
01:33It's going to change with consistency.
01:35And I would sort of say in today's day, it's going to change with increasing speed.
01:38And so if you don't have natural curiosity, or if you don't create infrastructure to make sure that your curiosity is scratched and informed and action, you will get behind.
01:47You'll get behind quickly.
01:48Erdin?
01:49So I think sometimes we put leaders up on this pedestal to solve the most complex problems and make the toughest decisions.
01:57And I think often leadership is the contrary.
01:59So I think sometimes it's about actually spending time with the people who are on the front lines and trying to identify the trends that they're seeing.
02:07And then helping to make the obvious decisions that are sometimes a little bit more difficult, and maybe people don't want to talk about it, but helping to solve those problems.
02:16And then the other thing I think, you know, definitely build on the insatiable curiosity.
02:21You know, sometimes I see leaders who transition companies at senior levels, and they go from one company to the next and expect to just repeat the playbook.
02:29They don't invest enough time to really go deep, understand the new products, understand the data and the trends and the insights behind the new business.
02:37And they flounder.
02:38So I think this insatiable curiosity, and even if you're staying in the same job, you need to be asking yourself in the current world, has it fundamentally changed in the last six months?
02:46And if it hasn't, then you start to worry that you're becoming irrelevant.
02:49Now, that journey is very fluid, and it happens over a long course of time.
02:57There's plenty of small steps that you both have probably made that have been very individual to you.
03:03So if you can think of one, what small change have you made that has made the biggest difference to you?
03:09And this could be a daily habit or a ritual or anything like that.
03:13But what one small thing have you done that has contributed the biggest amount?
03:19So I think the thing that we all struggle with most is time.
03:22And, you know, I'm sure we all open up our calendars and look at them with horror on a regular basis.
03:30So I'm incredibly fortunate.
03:33I've got an amazing assistant, Josh, that I've been working with for almost 10 years.
03:36And he is really very much part of my success.
03:40But one of the things he got me to do when we started working together was about once a month, he'd sit me down and we'd look back at the calendar and we'd go,
03:49have you actually spent time on the things that you think you should be spending time on?
03:53The answer is invariably no.
03:55But you go back and you look over and you go, well, you know, in theory, I've got an allocation I want to spend on, you know,
04:01internal teams, externally with customers and then externally with business development efforts.
04:09And we go through the calendar.
04:11I've missed it completely.
04:12We talk about why you identify stuff you shouldn't have done or stuff that you could allocate out to your team and, you know, help them to step up.
04:20So that's a discipline and a lesson he taught me that has proved invaluable over the years.
04:24So figuring out how to do that.
04:26And then the second thing is, you know, your energy management.
04:29So learning when to switch off and not feeling guilty about it, like setting aside that time, putting the phone away, being there for your family or your friends or whatever it is, I think is also crucial.
04:38We'll get to that.
04:40Yeah, I'd say just totally echo.
04:43And I would sort of say just radical calendar management.
04:45I mean, I am radical about how I manage my calendar.
04:48And much like as a system, we try to do it on a foregoing basis.
04:51I think I'm going to start looking back and sort of see if I was successful or not, I think, in that front.
04:54But really just making sure that there's a priority to my calendar that is allocated properly and that I am doing the things that are important to me as a leader and important to me as an individual, as a person as well.
05:05I do combine those two things at work.
05:06But I would sort of say the one thing I think I've gotten substantially better is just listening.
05:10When I say listening, I mean really listening.
05:12Because as an executive, you've got a lot of information coming to you.
05:14Everything's perfect.
05:15Everything's going to get knocked out of the park.
05:16And so, you know, what I try to do is to make sure that I am really deeply listening when people bring things to me as well.
05:22And I would sort of say as I was coming up through the ranks, I thought I was a good listener until I had a mishap and I realized that I didn't listen deeply enough to ask the right questions.
05:31And so I would sort of say right now I'm really into listening, really into understanding that, and really into make sure that if it's a junior person, if it's a senior person, that they have my 100% attention when they're talking to me.
05:41I think that makes the difference in everything.
05:42It helps them to present better, it helps me to have insight in the moments that I have with them as well, and it helps me to give them direction so that they're clear so they can move fast.
05:52That's very, very important for us because speed kills, and if you don't have it, you'll get behind.
05:56And so we're very focused in terms of making sure that, you know, we work in a consuming marketplace.
06:00We work in an attention economy, and if you're not on point or a bit ahead of the point, you're behind.
06:05And so it's very, very important that there's clarity from the top so the rest of the organization can move with speed.
06:10And I think that's an interesting one, listening, because I think if you ask anyone, they would probably say that they're a good listener.
06:17It's one of those things that everyone thinks that they can do because it's kind of natural.
06:20But as you say, you identified an action point of asking questions.
06:26So is that the small change that you made to improve that by making sure that you could ask a question to make sure that you had understood?
06:34I was always a good questioner, but I want to make sure that my questions are intentional and they drive action as a leader.
06:40Because, you know, if someone asks me a question, of course, I have a point of view.
06:42I'll share that point of view.
06:43But I want to make sure that it's placed correctly and that it gives direction.
06:46Because I think what people are looking for is direction.
06:48You know, are we going or not?
06:50Are we going at a certain speed or not?
06:51Does he like this or not?
06:52And so I think direction gives clarity.
06:54Clarity drives speed.
06:56Speed puts us in a position to be successful in the marketplace.
06:58That's interesting.
06:59Now, this is particularly relevant to Can.
07:01How do you conserve your energy?
07:04How do you manage your energy to ensure that you are not burning out?
07:08Because I think everyone, when they reach a certain age, you know, I just turn 40 myself.
07:12And it's something that I'm...
07:13Young man.
07:15It's good to have the young blood up here.
07:19I think it's something that, you know, everyone sort of considers at a certain point in their life.
07:23And, you know, taking care of their well-being and making sure that they have longevity to their careers.
07:30And they can perform at a certain level for a certain amount of time and stay effective.
07:33How do you manage that energy and avoid running that risk?
07:39Yeah, I think a couple of things for me.
07:40And my someone knows this.
07:41But, you know, I'm an early riser.
07:43And I always have been my entire life.
07:44I'm from the deep, deep southern part of the United States.
07:47My parents grew up in a rural area.
07:49And so we had one rule in the house.
07:50First of all, make your bed the first thing you get up.
07:53Right?
07:53That's a very, very basic rule.
07:55But also just prepare to be productive for the day.
07:57And so I think I have tried to maintain that all throughout my professional career.
08:00And for me, you know, the first two or three hours when I wake up, I'm up 4.30, 5 o'clock every morning.
08:05For me, it's just that's the only time I have to myself the entire day until I come back home.
08:10So I realize that I need to have my needs met, my intellectual needs, my physical needs, those types of things as well.
08:15And I feel like I can do that.
08:17That puts me in a position to be productive and to be available for my teams internally, externally, so on and so forth.
08:22So I've just tried to preserve that.
08:23So when I travel to a place like this, I try not to get too far off schedule.
08:27So I came in from London, so I was already acclimated when I came.
08:29And for me, it's just trying to have that consistency so that I'm prepared to be physical, to be alert, to be in it, and to make sure that we have a great engagement with a lot of partners here at Cannes.
08:40Vernon?
08:41Well, about this time every year, I find myself standing on the closet in Cannes, realizing that I've failed miserably at managing my energy and feeling that I can sustain the pace and keep going.
08:54And I promise I'm going to do it completely differently the next time I come back to Cannes.
08:59I think on the 15th occasion or whatever it is this time around, I'm just going to give up on that one.
09:06But outside of Cannes, it is about knowing, you know, you've got to listen to yourself and figure out what's good for you.
09:12And everybody's different.
09:14Everybody's got different things they're interested in, different things they've got responsibilities to outside of work.
09:19We talk a lot about integrating work and life.
09:23You know, work-life balance, I think, is gone.
09:25We all talk about integrating work and life.
09:27The mistake I made on that one was thinking it's both always on all of the time.
09:32And what I've learned, certainly, over the last number of years is segmenting, particularly when it comes to family and kids and stuff like that.
09:40So when I go into the house, I leave the phone at the front door on silent and make sure I've got a couple of hours to engage fully and properly and listen and make sure that they feel I'm fully present.
09:51Those moments when, whether it's family, friends, or even your teammates, where you're distracted, you've got a device in one hand and a conversation in the other, it never pays dividends on either front.
10:01So segmenting, being rigorous about it, listening to yourself when you feel like you're just running low and figuring out what's the thing that's going to give you energy, whether that's 24 hours in a dark room or getting out and doing something more fun, you pick your poison.
10:18Now, you know, there's a lot of experienced leaders already in this room, and I don't think there's probably anyone who hasn't experienced setbacks within their own company.
10:26That's just a way of business and something everyone's got to deal with.
10:31So in the moments where your organizations have faced setbacks or you've faced some resistance, how do you maintain your momentum and keep your team aligned with your vision?
10:44Let's start with you.
10:45Yeah, listen, we all hit those kind of moments of crisis.
10:50Sometimes they're inflicted upon you and sometimes they're of your own making.
10:54But what I've learned to do is figure out how to, like, it always feels daunting and it always feels like it's somewhat of a catastrophe.
11:02But what I've found is, you know, this concept of getting a SWAT team together and having daily stand-ups, chunking up the problem and just attacking it bit by bit.
11:13And when you feel like you've got the plan together, keeping some good humor and energy around the execution of that plan, even in the face of adversity, is also very important.
11:24So whether it's an external PR crisis or an internal kind of revenue or business challenge, they're the things that typically I find gets me and my team through.
11:34Yeah, I think it's a couple of things for me, and especially, you know, I exist in a very large, complicated organization.
11:41And so there's two things.
11:42There's the problem and then there's the reaction to the problem inside the organization.
11:47So I try to keep my team focused on let's deal with the problems.
11:50But let's also acknowledge that we have stakeholders that we have to manage as well.
11:53And depending on if it's a crisis or something external or internal, we have certain processes to sort of deal with it as well.
11:59And each one of those processes, there's comms management around it as well.
12:03So that's number one.
12:04Number two, I would say just sort of say, control what you can control.
12:07At the end of the day, we can dissect the problem.
12:09We can get very clear on what it is, what it's not, and then how are we going to actually go out and solve the problem.
12:13And I think that is a primary sort of energy that the team should have as well.
12:16But also, again, like I said, managing stakeholders, sometimes it's internal stakeholders, sometimes it's external stakeholders, sometimes it's governments as well, depending on the size and the complexity of the problem as well.
12:26And it's just very important to make sure people focus on that.
12:28Because I would sort of say in your teams, they know what's happening, they're clear in terms of how to solve the problem, and they're moving down a path.
12:35What you don't need is the organizational infrastructure putting unnecessarily energy on the team that's solving the problem.
12:40So my goal is to make sure that I'm providing some clearance to make sure that we're doing what we need to do,
12:44and we're actually managing stakeholders as well.
12:47In our company, I'm sure other companies, sometimes stakeholders can make it more complex, and they can slow you down.
12:54And so my job is to make sure there's clarity for my team to go and run and solve the problem.
12:58I'll give you a specific example.
13:01This is shortly after I'd taken over leadership of Google's UK business, and there was a major PR crisis around some of the content that was appearing on YouTube.
13:12And so it was at a moment in time where there was a lot of jihadi content, which started to get posted.
13:20They became very sophisticated about understanding our algorithm and finding ways around it.
13:25Our systems weren't quite up to scratch as to where they should be.
13:28And it coincided with a number of terrorist attacks in London.
13:31I remember distinctly, this was just kicking off, we were maybe a week into it, but I walked into the office one day.
13:39We were still a little bit kind of, how is this happening, what's going on, what are we doing about it?
13:43But I walked into the office one day.
13:45There had been a terrible terrorist attack the day before.
13:49There were some people who were badly injured and killed.
13:51But one of the British tabloids had posted on their front page, Google, YouTube, teaching terrorists how to kill in the UK.
14:01I remember distinctly walking into the office and there were two girls sitting at their desk with the headline on the table in front of them.
14:08And they were just in tears.
14:09They were bereft.
14:11And that was a feeling that permeated across the whole team.
14:14And in that moment of crisis, we kind of figured out that it was about pulling together this core team of people who were responsible for each of their divisions.
14:26And then, first of all, figuring out, well, what is causing the problem?
14:30How much of it is in our control?
14:32Have we got the right teams, engineering, safety, trust, policy, et cetera, working through what they need to do?
14:38And are we clearing the roadblocks for them so that they can do it fast?
14:41So that was the internal side of it.
14:43We figured out that plan.
14:44We put everybody into execution.
14:46The next piece was the external side.
14:48We had a lot of stakeholders, either clients, brand partners.
14:51I'm sure some of you were affected by this back in the day.
14:55Organizations we were part of, like the advertising organization in the UK, ISBA.
15:00But also policymakers and regulators.
15:03And this was on the front page every day.
15:06And, you know, I think it's fair to say that the publishers of the day, the news publishers of the day,
15:10we're seeing this as an opportunity to make hay a little bit as well.
15:14But we also made a decision that we were going to show up in every conversation.
15:18One of us from the leadership team was going to be in every conversation, no matter how complex and difficult it was,
15:24whether that was with a government department, a regulator, or even with some of the families who had been affected by some of these tragedies.
15:32And we did that religiously for the next six or nine months.
15:35And it did two things.
15:37First of all, it displayed our accountability.
15:39And I think that's really important in any crisis or difficult situation.
15:43The second thing it did is it gave our teams confidence that we believed we were going to work through that in a moment where they needed leadership.
15:52They were getting all of this incoming flack and they needed to believe that they were part of an organization that was,
15:58A, going to fix this, and B, come out the other side.
16:01And I think those things, getting that leadership team around it, being very clear, showing up in the moment of crisis,
16:08not avoiding it in any way, and holding yourself accountable was what allowed us to work through that.
16:13It took us time, but I think we got there.
16:15We didn't break any glasses.
16:16That's a really great example.
16:19And I think that shows why you're both on this panel.
16:25You both have incredible experience at that top, top level.
16:28And it's never been easier for people to get or give leadership advice with the advent of social media.
16:37And it's very, very easy for people to broadcast what they consider to be leadership advice.
16:43And it's not necessarily wrong, but there are probably things which you've encountered which you would say, you know, you wouldn't advise.
16:55Is there any particular myth that you've heard about leadership that you wish you could debunk?
17:00Oh, I have so many.
17:01I'll just focus on one.
17:03So here is the fallacy that leaders sort of find themselves in.
17:06For some reason, we think we're in control.
17:09We think we're in control of our organizations.
17:10We think we're in control of outcomes, all those types of things.
17:13So I think once I, I would say once I was humble enough to understand is that, look, I am a facilitator and someone that sort of is asking and designing where the organization is going in the future.
17:26And I have to put everybody in a position to be successful on that path.
17:30I think that's my unique selling proposition inside of my organization.
17:33Do I control that?
17:34No.
17:35And so what I've had to do, I've had to learn how to do is to sort of relinquish this notion that leaders are in control.
17:40So I think that's the one fallacy I think that a lot of leaders fall off on.
17:43Something happens, so on and so forth, I can change it.
17:45And it's not to say that we don't have to be the energy behind giving direction.
17:48But it is about marshalling and resources to go and achieve a range of objectives that's going to get you short-term, medium-term, long-term, down the road as well.
17:54So this illusion of control, I think, is one thing that is certainly a myth that was very, very much busted.
17:59And I think once I got through that piece, it was free, right, because it allowed me to insert myself in the flow of what we do and where we're going in much more holistic ways, right?
18:08And again, my job is to make sure that everybody can be successful.
18:11And so if I focus on that, if I do that in ways that only I can do it, if I marshal my resources, all the resources I can marshal, then I think that actually pushes the organization down the road in a very helpful way, hopefully in a very pace-driven way as well.
18:24And it gets us to our objective in the marketplace.
18:27How about you, Ernie?
18:28I think the fallacy that I put forward is that leaders actually know what they're doing.
18:35And I think I've got plenty of data to suggest that we often don't.
18:40And, you know, I'll give you another example.
18:43There was a moment in time where our leader of the day had decided to do a global reorg of the business organization.
18:51We wanted to get it done in 24 hours, which is crazy given the size of the organization, but that was the plan.
18:57We were hauled into a conference.
18:58We were given the spec of the org that he wanted.
19:02And we were told to write up the org charts and put the names in boxes because the next morning we were going to tell everybody what their new job was.
19:08Now, in that process, the division that I was running at the time was effectively getting reorg'd in a way that I didn't agree with.
19:17I thought it was going to be bad for the business.
19:19And I was kind of thinking, well, what do you do?
19:21Like, am I just being selfish about my thing?
19:23And clearly this guy doesn't know what he's asking for.
19:27So how do I approach it?
19:29And in those situations, you can either go and tell somebody they're wrong, but you better have the data to back it up.
19:34Or else you can go and try and change the question.
19:37And in that instance, what I did was I drew up exactly what I was asked for.
19:42And then I drew up a second thing in parallel.
19:45And I said, listen, this is what you asked me for.
19:47Here are the three reasons I think it's wrong.
19:49This is what you should do.
19:50And here's why it's going to be much more beneficial for the organization, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
19:55And he threw me out of the room.
20:00And then about an hour later, asked me to come back.
20:03And he said, OK, we're going to do it.
20:05Do not fuck it up.
20:07And I've never been so passionate about making sure that my analysis was correct and that I made the thing a success.
20:13But I think it goes back to that, you know, as leaders, you're often forced into a situation where you have imperfect information.
20:19But you have to make a call.
20:21So you make the call.
20:22And I think there's always moments where right up to the very last minute, if you feel you've got better data or information than the call that's been made, bring it forward.
20:32Present the alternative idea and see if you can get the leader to change the mind.
20:36And usually at that moment, they need most help as well.
20:38So be brave, be courageous and try and change it if you think it's wrong.
20:42That's great advice.
20:43And on the flip side of that, what do you feel is an underrated trait that more people should be paying attention to?
20:51Yeah, I think for me, it's just compassion.
20:53One thing about leadership is that you have the burden of knowing.
20:57You know everything.
20:58You know where we're going.
20:59You know what's going to happen.
21:00There's going to be a restructure.
21:01You might be a part of it.
21:02You know whose lives are going to be affected as well.
21:04So I just think it's just having that compassion.
21:05I think, first of all, with yourself as a leader to acknowledge what you're feeling.
21:09That's very, very important because if you can't acknowledge it, you can't see it and sense it in your organization.
21:14It's very, very important.
21:15And then making sure, I would sort of say, particularly the organization I'm at, you know, we're all about principles.
21:19And we're all about intentionality as well.
21:22I just think just being intentional with your leadership, I think, is really, really critical.
21:24One, I think people see it and appreciate it.
21:27So even if you have to do big, tough things, why it may hurt, people will understand it, number one.
21:33Number two, I think they know it comes from a place of really good intention, really good thought, and really good compassion.
21:38So I wish people could see that side of it.
21:41Now, unfortunately, we have to make big, tough decisions that impact people's lives.
21:44It just comes with the territory.
21:46But how you go about doing that, I think it's absolutely incredible.
21:50And I think it's so important for a range of reasons these days.
21:54You've got to make sure that that part is known, is seen, is appreciated, and so you have a level of consistency with it as well.
22:00I can't do it today and not do it tomorrow.
22:02I can't do it today and not do it next year.
22:03People have to sort of understand that because at the end of the day, we're going to ask people to do really big things.
22:09All right, get great results, do some transformation.
22:12We're working on a big acquisition now, and so, you know, there's a lot of stuff happening around that.
22:16And so if you don't really have personal leadership credibility, it is going to be hard to ask other people to do big things.
22:23All right, and final thought.
22:24Final thought.
22:26Years ago, I was running this big, fast-growing team, and I decided I was going to be a really, really nice boss.
22:33And every performance cycle, I'd look for the kind of top 5, 10% of people, and I'd send them a little email and go, thanks for all the hard work.
22:42And I remember, you know, I'd done this a couple of quarters, and I remember mentioning it to my dad.
22:47And he went, you're a fucking idiot.
22:49And I went, what do you mean?
22:52Yeah, it's an Irish thing.
22:53Excuse my en français.
22:56But I said, what do you mean?
22:57He said, well, that's the most impersonal thing.
22:59Go and talk to them and tell them why.
23:02And from that time forward, what I would do is I would do a handwritten card, and I'd go and I'd drop it off at the person's desk.
23:09If they were there, I'd sit down and I'd talk to them for a few minutes and go, listen, thank you so much for your hard work.
23:14I know you did this, this, and this, and you've gone above and beyond.
23:17And it just became a habit, it became a thing I did.
23:20After I left Google, where I had been for 18 years, I've spent the last three years traipsing around the world for Snap.
23:27And the number of people who I have found in organizations I'm now dealing with who are in positions of leadership,
23:34who I had completely forgotten, I dropped a card on their desk at one point in history, and they hadn't.
23:39They absolutely remember it.
23:41They remember the fact that some boss, several layers up, actually gave enough of a hoot to actually come and sit down and thank them for the thing that they did.
23:51Never underestimate the power of gratitude and recognition that you have, and go out of your way to make it count, is the final piece of advice I'd suggest.
24:02That's fantastic advice, and it's been fascinating listening to you, and I hope everyone here has really learned something from this.
24:08Ronan Harris and Anton Vinson, everyone.
24:11We're going to break for lunch, guys, so feed yourselves, drink something.
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