- 24/06/2025
FourFourTwo sat down with Manchester City star, and 2024 Ballon d'Or winner Rodri to discuss how he reads the game and why he does what he does on the pitch. Speaking to Adam Clery, he explains what it's like when a defender 'inverts' into midfield, how he balances defence with attack, and why he might even end up as a striker one day...
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00:00Hello, everybody. Welcome to the 442 YouTube channel. And if you think you are more excited
00:14than I am today, you are wrong. We are joined by Rodri. Between us, four Premier League titles,
00:21one FA Cup, one Champions League, one European Championship, one Ballon d'Or,
00:26and one North East Under-15s Counties Cup 2003. We've done all right between us.
00:31First question, what does this mean to you? Like, congratulations, first of all,
00:37but to win an honour like this at this stage of your career, how does that feel?
00:40Well, I mean, I cannot explain, you know, with words. It means a lot, you know, to me, my family,
00:47also my country. Not only because of me, the players, as we said before, who didn't want it,
00:53you know. But yeah, I think it's a consequence of the award heart and winning collectively
00:59with the team and the years we've had of the success of my team and the national team.
01:05We were just talking before about sort of how it's seen as slightly unusual for a player in
01:08your position to win an award like that. Now, obviously, no two midfielders are ever really
01:12the same. Chris called you a defence midfielder, you called yourself a holding midfielder. There's
01:17so many different ways of playing the role. What I'd love to know, this might be a really
01:21big question, but how do you see your game? Like, what is Rodri to Rodri?
01:25What is Rodri to Rodri? Well, I think it depends, of course, on the team you play, but I think
01:35my role is very similar in my club and my national team. But I think you're kind of the guy who
01:40ensures that everything has to work, you know, like you don't have a specific thing to do.
01:47You just have lots of things to do. Maybe your role is different from one day to another in
01:53the sense that things change depending on the team you face. And you have to make sure
01:59the team works, you know, and it's about leadership, it's about managing, it's about understanding
02:04the game, you know, and I think it's something I've been growing a lot all these years, yeah.
02:09I think it's interesting you said it varies from sort of game to game because whether it's
02:12for Man City or the national side, you're so critical to that first phase of play, but
02:17obviously that can be so different between oppositions. Like, some games will give you lots
02:20of space, some games will be very aggressive. How much of that is
02:23down to you to determine in the match, like you to basically make the call on the pitch,
02:28I'm going to take this position or offer this situation?
02:31I cannot tell you, like, it's this, it's just how you, you know, you smell the game,
02:37how you feel, you know, when you find the spaces. Every game is different, you know, and
02:43trying, understanding that we have a way of playing and understanding that I'm in a team
02:49that is very tactical and everyone knows what to do and in that way it's easier. But I, let's
02:57say, have like a bigger role in that sense, in tactics sense, you know, like maybe Phil is
03:04worried about being positioned in here, but maybe after 20 minutes he's there, you know,
03:09my work is to make Phil go there because there is the real space, you know. And this is the way it
03:16works for a midfielder.
03:17You mentioned, I presume that's Phil Foden that you're referring to, yeah, obviously you've had so
03:21many different partners in the midfield. There's been a real trend over the last two years of
03:25defenders now stepping up to sort of join midfielders in there. We spoke to quite a few
03:30defenders about how they make that adaptation, how they adapt to the role, but I was kind of
03:33curious from the other side, like, is it different for you being a midfielder and having a defender
03:39in there? Do you have to adjust your game to sort of know that's not maybe their natural position?
03:42I think it's more difficult to do what, for example, Stones have done or Cancelo in the past
03:48or Akanji sometimes when they play that role. I think when we move back as a centre-back, we're
03:56used to look 360, you know, and be surrounded by players. And when you play centre-back, you just have
04:02players on front, you know, you have no worry about your back. And with the ball, it's more chill, you
04:08know, I speak with the centre-back, it's like, your job with the ball is so easy, so easy. Without the
04:14ball, it's different, you know. Without the ball, it's so key, it's demanding the position and it's
04:19very tricky. But, you know, yeah, I think that process is more easy in my way than their way.
04:25Do they agree with you when you tell them their jobs? I think so, yeah. I think they might,
04:29because when they play midfielders, they have to look, you know, 360, play one-two touch, you know,
04:34switch off, defence, attack, I think is the most complete part in the field, you know.
04:40Do you think that makes your job different when you're in there with them? Like, let's say you
04:43were in with sort of a more natural midfielder, will you be looking out for them a little bit more
04:47or will you just sort of be trusting them to do their job? I trust, I trust them in the way. I think
04:54of course they will look at me when they play that role and the same way I remember in the World Cup
05:00before I know I'm going to play there. As a centre-back, I watch clips of centre-backs,
05:06how they behave, how they look at each other, you know, the line, everything. You have to look at
05:11the people that really knows that role, you know. Not looking for sort of specific names here,
05:16because I'm sure you couldn't give us them, but is there a specific kind of player you like to be in
05:22the middle with? Like, if you're being joined by somebody, would you prefer it to somebody, say,
05:25really athletic who will cover the ground, someone who is technically great so you can trust them with a
05:29ball in a tight situation? Do you have a preferred kind of partner? Yeah, of course. I would say the
05:34same. The best partner is the one that defends and helps you a lot and is so good and technical
05:43with the ball. Normally, what you find is players that are very technical, they don't defend much or
05:49not good at defending and the opposite, you know. I think the balance is for me the best, you know, but
05:54if you ask me that I'm a defensive midfielder, I normally want a guy that can help you, you know,
06:01when I'm not in the zone or whatever. What, is there any specific part of your game that you really
06:06have had to work to develop? Because obviously you get into an age now where you're, I mean,
06:10you'll never stop improving, you'll never stop wanting to develop, but you've come a long way in
06:14sort of your journey as a footballer. What have been the areas that you've had to really work on, whether it's through
06:19coaching or just by yourself? Yeah, I think one was very, very key. I remember my first year at City,
06:29I was a player that used to jump a lot, you know, go and press, yeah, forward, forward. And sometimes
06:36it's good, but many of them it's not good because if they play in your bag, the team is like naked,
06:44you know, you have to defend 70 meters behind. It's something I really, really improve and that's
06:50identify when to go, when to stay, you know, and that role for me is the most important,
06:55the balance. That gives you the balance, you know, in the moment you lose that position,
07:00that midfielder, you lose the heart of the team. And most of the goals, I don't know how the statistics,
07:06but most of the goals come in the central area, you know, so if you're there, it's more difficult
07:13for them to find a way. Is that something a particular coach has worked on with you,
07:17or is that something you identified yourself that you needed to do? No, no, no, they,
07:23with clips, with videos, you see you're going to the side, why you go to the side, you just protect this,
07:28you know. It's very, very demanding and in the, by the time they saw I got it, they just start,
07:37you know, giving me that freedom, but until that it was like the first year, very strict.
07:43This might sound a really silly question because we're sitting on either side of the Ballon d'Or,
07:47but is there any part of your game right now you really do want to still improve anything you think
07:51that you'd like to refine that in the next year or two? Yeah, yeah, I think, I think I have a massive
07:58many parts of my game that can be improved, many, many of them, most of them in terms of the head
08:07sometimes, be more cold, not that passionate, try to be a better leader every day, that role,
08:19and in terms of football, thinking on football, yeah, of course, 100%, the last step, for example,
08:26is something I paid a lot of attention in the last years, you know, to be more involved in goals,
08:31assists, you know, be more decisive in this sense, but maybe, I don't know, I control more when I'm
08:39tired or exhausted, don't move that much, try to stay, yeah, things, many things to improve, yeah.
08:46I think it's really interesting you talked about the sort of mental side of it there,
08:49especially when you're sort of attacking. With a player in your position, this is something I've always
08:52wondered about, if you're in the final third, so, you know, the responsibilities of the defense
08:56maybe aren't quite as pressing, how much of your sort of brain power goes towards helping with the
09:02attack and taking up a position where you could help versus watching out for potentially losing
09:07the ball and being in the right position if that happens? Well, it's that balance what gives you
09:12if you're good or not, because if you are too worried about counter-attacks, you don't help the team
09:16attacking, if you are too overconfident of attacking, you can be punished. It's trying to find the
09:22balance and being very safe, you know, when the ball goes through you in those situations where all
09:27the players are in front of you, you have to be very safe, you know, but in the same time, you cannot be
09:32lazy with the ball and safe, you have to, you know, find the key pass, risky sometimes, it's a matter of
09:38identifying the moment, you know. Is that something that you sort of have to decide yourself in the
09:43moment or is that something that's really coached? Yeah, no, it's something, it's very difficult to
09:48coach this, it's a matter of feeling when you, when you see the movement, when you see the line,
09:53when you see it's time to keep the ball, when it's time to accelerate, it's something they cannot
09:58teach you, you know, it's something you can see in other players, that's true. I thought it was really
10:04interesting, Chris touched upon the goal he scored in the Champions League final, because I, my turn,
10:08my perspective of that game from watching it was that it was, Inter had sort of quite
10:13a good handle on sort of what you were going to do, and they were sort of, they were quite well
10:16disciplined, they were making it very difficult, and it was you that popped up with the goal,
10:20and watching it back, there's a huge, huge amount of space on the edge of that box, and I've always
10:25wondered, was that something you prepared for, because it seems almost a deliberate rush of all
10:29the players to the near post to leave that space, did you sort of know that was going to happen, or was
10:33that not any sense? No, no, I didn't know that was going to happen, it's a matter of seconds, I remember
10:39following the game in that chance, and the ball just appeared there, but I think I was one second
10:48earlier than everyone, and I made two, three steps before. You had quite a lot of ground,
10:52yeah, quite a lot of ground, because when Manu gives the ball, and I think I'm behind him,
10:58you know, and he was very far from the central area, so yeah, I think I remember I did like two,
11:03three steps, because I felt that maybe something could happen there, but yeah, when I see the ball
11:10there, I was like... I was going to say, what was going through your head when you sort of, because
11:13it must be a snap second decision, because if you over commit to that, and you don't get there,
11:18that's huge, you just took a huge amount of trouble. I think this is something that I admire from the
11:24number nines, it's that little fraction of second when they are alone, but maybe the centre-back is
11:32looking the ball, and he's making one step, and that's what makes him have the space, you know, or
11:38it's something I admire a lot, because we don't have that feeling of where the ball is going to come,
11:41you know, they are the best in that, but yeah, I remember that moment when the ball came to me,
11:46you have one, two seconds to think what to do with that ball, you know, and I always say that
11:50I always, first thing to shoot strong the ball, but at the end I was like, no, you only have one,
11:57just put it to the corner, and yeah, definitely it was good.
11:59Does this mean we could see you getting a run as a centre-forward at some point, if that's...
12:02Imagine, not with my speed, not with my speed, but more or less, because now the way we play,
12:09most of the times we play in the central, in the frontal area, so sometimes we are number 10.
12:16How do you think your game will change over the next couple of years, do you think, because you said
12:20before about how you want to work on the mental side of things, do you think you'll become more,
12:23I don't want to say sort of like stationary, but be better, just sort of...
12:26It's something I speak a lot with my friends, and I ask them, I have a really
12:33confident opinion on what is going to behave, and I think it's very, it's going to be very similar
12:37to handball, you know, handball, they stay all over the area, just blocking,
12:44they don't try to go man-marked, you know, or try to stay, they're just there, and I think we see,
12:51in my opinion, it's a mess, but we see a lot of now when the team feels that on paper is maybe worse
12:59than the other, so defensive, you know, and this makes maybe 11 players almost in the box,
13:05and I think that's the new football. Contra-attack, the team that is defending,
13:13and the team that is kind of trying to open them, very spread, I think this is how we see football
13:19in the next years. I think we see that actually quite a lot in sort of the big clashes between
13:22the big teams, because obviously the attacking threat is so big, we see a lot of sort of,
13:27even from like the very top teams in the Premier League, they'll go sort of quite with a compact
13:31mid-block against each other, and it kind of makes certainly the centre of the pitch very difficult
13:35to play through and to play in. You think that's because we're going to see that pretty much
13:38constantly now? I think so, I think so. I think it's a big indicative, that between two big teams,
13:46you see when you defend, you defend very back, because normally I punish you, I punish you,
13:55maybe the game is more open, but now you're seeing that it doesn't matter if the level of the
13:59two teams are similar. When you defend, you go back, and when you attack, you spread. So,
14:06I don't know. Cagey is the word we use for that, a bit sort of like reluctant to go. You very
14:11rarely now see sort of open basketball games, people call it. I suppose that's actually a good
14:15way to analyse it, trying to avoid a basketball game, it becomes a handball. That's why I enjoy
14:20most of the games we play against Liverpool. Yeah, it's great because it's like, I don't care,
14:27I want to punish you, and we have the same feeling. I don't care, I want to punish you,
14:30and they are not conservative. They go with their mentality, and once you're in the pitch,
14:39you enjoy those moments, because it's the same game. The crowd must be so different as well, yeah.
14:45One thing we always try and ask is, has there been a team in the last few years that you've played
14:49against, that maybe people wouldn't have expected to be a huge challenge for either Spain or Manchester
14:54City, but who really surprised you with sort of how good they were and how intelligent their football
14:58was? Not surprised, but there's some teams that, well, you don't know, you know, but they're the
15:06worst for you. Yeah. And for example, Tottenham, Tottenham, for us. Especially when Kane was in it,
15:13and Son and the other one, Moura, whatever, because they have the perfect way to play against us.
15:22And I remember that game in Tottenham Stadium was difficult. I never won.
15:28I was going to say, which one?
15:29Last year, the first time, but it was like, why? Why is it so tricky? And you cannot understand,
15:35but yeah, sometimes it's like this.
15:37Chris already asked you, I was going to leave this question off, but you've sort of touched
15:41upon a little bit. You said you wouldn't know, you don't want to plan too far ahead in terms of
15:44thinking about being a coach or a manager. It's clear that, like, you think about this in the
15:48way that a coach or manager would. Is that really not something you're considering at this point?
15:51Have you got even like half an eye on doing it?
15:53Well, imagine right now?
15:55Well, not right now, but you've got to start somewhere.
15:58Nah, I don't know. I think what I see is, as a footballer, as a coach, you lose a lot of time
16:06in terms of travels and coaches and stuff. They have the same life of players without playing,
16:14you know, and this is something that makes me, you know, a bit, it's not because I don't like
16:19coaching, it's the circumstances of being a coach. So, I don't know, maybe I retire,
16:24it's like I want to coach or maybe no, I don't know.
16:27Roger, thank you so much.
16:29Thank you very much.
16:29Congratulations again.
16:30Thank you very much.
16:31Well, there you go. Actually, do you know what's really mad about that is I will go home for
16:37Christmas and both of my parents will still ask when I'm getting a real job. But anyway,
16:43obviously I wasn't going to make the actual Ballon d'Or winner sit there while I went through
16:47the whole please like and subscribe to the channel stuff, so please like the video and subscribe to
16:54the channel. Because if you have watched us before, you'll have heard me say that when people
16:57subscribe and that number grows, we get to go and do loads of cool things.
17:01And that, that is the cool things I have been talking about. So if you are a subscriber already,
17:07you literally made that happen. Like genuinely because of all of you lot, when we ring up the
17:12actual best football player in the world and say, would you like to come on the channel and do a
17:16little video? He says, yes, and not who are you? How did you get this number? Anyway though,
17:21I digress, you can get me across all the social medias at Adam Cleary, C-L-E-R-Y. I would
17:25dearly love to hear what you thought about that interview and you can put it in the comment section down
17:29below or you can tell me directly. And if you would like to share that video around,
17:33that is something that greases the wheels of content and may help us do something very cool
17:38like that in the future again. But also, if you'd like to hear more from Roger, then why not pick
17:42up the brand new awards issue of 442 in which he is not only the video interview, but he's our cover
17:49star as well. We did a whole other interview with him about Man City, about the Ballon d'Or, about all the
17:54stuff. You would expect normal people to ask him if it comes in this bag and is really, is that the
18:00cover? No? Where is it? Really pretty. And you get this calendar too, apparently. Anyway, yes, that's
18:06it. That's the Roger interview. That's probably the greatest thing I've done in my entire career so far.
18:11Thank you very much for watching. Literally love every single one of you very dearly. Goodbye.
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