- 6/22/2025
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00:001997 was a year of evolution and transformation.
00:05Shawn Michaels went from a clean-cut pretty boy to a risque degenerate.
00:10We are the generation X. You make the rules and we will break them.
00:15We met the three faces of Foley.
00:17And Mrs. Foley's little boy.
00:20Bye-bye.
00:21Bye-bye.
00:22Bye-bye.
00:23Have mercy.
00:25Farouk was spearheading the nation of domination which of course led us to the Godfather.
00:30We are going to take matters into our own hands and that means by any means necessary.
00:35Then after a long dramatic build-up we got to meet the Undertaker's brother in Cain.
00:41Undertaker, welcome to your worst nightmare.
00:45This was the dawn of the attitude.
00:48Gentlemen, welcome. How you doing?
00:51Good to see you. Good to see you guys.
00:54I'm really tired.
00:55Yeah.
00:56Yeah.
00:57We get it.
00:58And that's like all the time.
00:59I don't want to assign myself the task as a spokesman but none of us want to be here.
01:04No, it's fine.
01:05We'll get through it.
01:06No offense.
01:07Okay, so we're looking at 1997.
01:08Can you guys run me through your characters and how you kind of developed where you kind
01:12of went, the ebbs and flows to get to the evolution of where you were?
01:15You want to start with it?
01:16There had been talk.
01:17We had been talking to buddies, friends, even as a company.
01:20Something's going on, something's changing.
01:23You can feel the wrestling business changing somewhat and us wanting to go more out there.
01:30And the traditional folks, so to speak, it was a little bit of a barrier there to try
01:35to break through.
01:36And then finally in 1997, I think that's, you know, the floodgates opened and they let
01:40us get out there a little more creatively and be a little bit more who we really were
01:45in the locker, you know, in the locker room.
01:47Exactly.
01:48Bring out more of ourselves, I guess.
01:49Exactly.
01:50Certainly for me, again, you know, the boyhood dream was neat when I was 12.
01:55Right.
01:56But I was a very different person.
01:58And the degenerate me worked out a lot better and it brought up all the anger, all the anxiety,
02:05all the, you know, just everything that was in me at that time.
02:08And, you know, myself and as a company, we were allowed to use that as a positive.
02:14Yes.
02:15Great.
02:16But, you know, I don't want to speak for everybody, but clearly we all felt that there was something
02:21going on, like a shift.
02:22Something special.
02:23Definitely.
02:24I think we were shifting away from the point where, as Kevin Nash would say, the guys in
02:29the 80s, they were vocations, you know.
02:32They were firemen or policemen or Mounties or, you know, collected your car and started
02:38letting ourselves inject more of our own personality into it.
02:41And it's funny, I only heard this story from Bruce Prichard two years ago, based, like
02:46my career changed based on a conversation I was having with Shawn Michaels, casual conversation,
02:50because Heartbreak Kid and Mankind had had some really good matches around the loop.
02:55And Shawn said, don't think this is the wrong way, but was this how you always envisioned
02:59yourself?
03:00You know, like this character, hair torn out and, you know, tormented soul.
03:05And I said, no, I said, yeah, I said, no, it's funny enough.
03:09I wanted to be you.
03:11And he looked like kind of shy.
03:13I said, well, not like Shawn Michaels, Heartbreak Kid.
03:15But I wanted to be like, you know, the chick magnet.
03:19You know, I wanted to be the eye candy for the women.
03:21Work the room, Meg.
03:22Yeah.
03:23And Bruce Prichard was there and he was there listening to me tell Shawn the story about
03:29dressing up when I was 18 years old and heard me say that I had it on video.
03:34And it was that conversation that led to the in-depth series of interviews I did with Jim
03:40Ross that really opened up the character and the floodgates for the character.
03:44So 97 was huge for me.
03:46Ron, what about for you?
03:47Yeah.
03:48And I think Shawn hit it exactly on the head for me, you know, because when I arrived there
03:54and, you know, even talking, having conversations with Vince, you know, and I think he picked
03:59up from me, you know, he asked me a question, you know, bluntly, I'd give him an answer.
04:04You know, no going around, beating around the bush.
04:06And even God thought he can attest to this back in the locker room, even when it came
04:09to like issues of race and things like this, I'd just tell him the truth.
04:13Hold on.
04:14You know, right on the back.
04:15Hold on.
04:16I don't want things to get ugly there.
04:18But did you tell him exactly what was on your mind when he unveiled that blue helmet?
04:23Oh.
04:24Now, that was one time that I think I was right there.
04:31And, you know, I stepped in that one.
04:38Now, just to go back when you speak of that, that was one time that I stepped out of the
04:44house and I, you know, I stood there for a moment.
04:47You know.
04:48Oh.
04:49Yes.
04:50Dude.
04:51That's the one where you come out and go.
04:53Yeah.
04:54Did I just buy that used car that I don't need?
04:57Yeah, well.
04:58Did he just tell me that?
04:59Yeah, I did.
05:00Yeah.
05:01That lemon?
05:02Because I'm driving it home now.
05:03In my blue helmet.
05:04In the blue helmet.
05:05In the blue helmet.
05:06Yeah.
05:07One time, I remember Ron explained it to me.
05:08Yeah.
05:09You know, right.
05:10Yeah.
05:11One time.
05:12I said, what did you do?
05:13And Ron said, I just started laughing.
05:14Yeah.
05:15I said, what did Vince do?
05:16He laughed, too.
05:17And then Ron looks around at me.
05:19He goes, and then Vince stopped laughing.
05:21Stopped laughing.
05:23And I stopped laughing.
05:25So, I think he's serious.
05:28I was like, when I snatched that blue helmet,
05:31put it on my head, and I walked out of the room.
05:33Yeah, right?
05:34Yeah.
05:35And so, and he kind of like, back to, you know,
05:39and he kind of like picked up, you know, even back then,
05:41he would come to me, you know, with Godfather and all of them,
05:43right?
05:44But ask me things, you know?
05:45And so, we kind of covered a lot of them issues.
05:48Like, back there, they would come and ask me that kind of thing.
05:51And I think they kind of picked that up from me, you know?
05:53Like, you know, our slight edge when it came to, you know,
05:56just being, hey, you know, listen, this is how it's gonna be.
05:59Yeah.
06:00You know?
06:01So, they looked at us to try to form a character with me.
06:03Like Shawn said, pushing just a little bit of the edge
06:06when it came to, you know, dealing with race.
06:09Because you people don't feel a black man is worthy
06:12of wearing the World Wrestling Federation title.
06:14You don't feel a black man is worthy of being champion of the WWF.
06:18But you do feel a black man is worthy of washing your car.
06:21And dealing with issues that everybody would face in the real world,
06:25you know?
06:26Right.
06:27And trying to push people's buttons, you know?
06:28Absolutely.
06:29And which we did, you know?
06:30That was one of the things he said.
06:31He said, we're just, you know, it was like, we're just gonna go there.
06:34Yeah.
06:35You know what I mean?
06:36We're gonna go ahead and...
06:37And we went there.
06:38Yeah.
06:39We're gonna go ahead and walk up to the cliff and give it a look-see.
06:40We'll see what happens.
06:41Were there certain people that were hesitant to push that envelope?
06:44Some people in the back that were kind of like, I don't know if I'm comfortable kind of going out there and doing that.
06:48Nobody at this table.
06:49Yeah.
06:50Definitely nobody here.
06:51None of the, you know, there was a couple of the current talent.
06:55You know, I think, you know, I think Brett was uncomfortable with moving in, you know, in that direction,
07:00coming from the more traditional side.
07:02But more so from a, at that time, they were agents, you know.
07:06But I think it was more of the older, some of the old-timer agents, you know, not everybody.
07:11Even Jim Ross.
07:12You know, Jim's a very traditional guy.
07:14I don't think he was real comfortable with a lot of it.
07:17Yeah.
07:18And so there were a few people.
07:19Yeah.
07:20But certainly, from a locker room standpoint, everybody was ready to go, you know, pedal to pedal.
07:24Let's do it.
07:25And that's why it worked, and that's why we ended up beating the other guys, I think.
07:28You know, it was pulling the curtain back a little bit, and that was something, you know, you don't do in this life work.
07:33Yeah.
07:34Hey, it's time to move on.
07:35You know?
07:36Right.
07:37And help each other with making this transformation, you know?
07:39And I knew that, man.
07:40And D-Lo and me were just kind of in the background.
07:43They were building rock.
07:45And me and D-Lo went maybe a year without even wrestling.
07:48We were just there to take stunners or, you know, superkicks or whatever.
07:52And that's when we were there at the end.
07:53So I knew that I had to do something.
07:55Yeah.
07:56At that point, I was growing my hair, and I always wore these hats.
07:59And these hats are called Godfather hats.
08:01And then one day, now I'm walking to the ring basically just in street clothes, what I used to wear.
08:06It was a house show where you just threw it out there, right?
08:09Me and, it was in, if I'm not mistaken, we were in Louisville, and I was wrestling Bradshaw.
08:14And me and Bradshaw were just beating the hell out of each other every night, right?
08:17We're in the popcorn match.
08:18We're coming on right after intermission.
08:20Right.
08:21And we're buddies, and we're just beating the hell out of each other.
08:24But you know what the problem was?
08:26The problem was is we weren't getting no reaction.
08:29People were sitting on their hands.
08:30Yeah.
08:31And we were killing each other.
08:32So I said, John, let's try something.
08:34I said, now I'm going to the ring.
08:35I'm wearing jewelry.
08:36I look a little different.
08:37People are calling me a pimp.
08:38They're like, what's up, pimp?
08:39I said, let's try something.
08:40I don't know why.
08:41I said, John, I'm going to offer you some girls.
08:43And I went to Jack Lanza.
08:44Is that what you said?
08:45I said, I'm going to offer you some girls.
08:47Okay.
08:48I'm going to tell you.
08:49I didn't even have girls.
08:50I'm going to tell you in the back.
08:51I'm going to offer you the girls, and let's work on something.
08:54So I went out there, and I'd tell the people, all right, I'm just going to say it.
08:57Everybody knows I'm a pimp.
08:58And then the people would pop.
09:00And I'm like, whoa, I'm not used to that.
09:01I said, but what you don't know is right here.
09:03And I'd say that town, man, they got some of the best homes ever born.
09:07And there was another pop.
09:08Yeah, of course there was.
09:09At that point where, you know, the wrestling was a backdrop to the character.
09:15You know what I mean?
09:16We started, you know, it started to be very character-driven at that point.
09:19Right.
09:20And again, you know, the wrestling just sort of then needed to be in line with the character.
09:26You know what I mean?
09:27As opposed to just beating the tar out of each other.
09:29You know, it's just something.
09:30Exactly.
09:31All the stories about the guys who can light up a dressing room and then go out there.
09:34Right.
09:35You know, Dennis Knight, Brad Armstrong, two of the funniest guys you could ever meet.
09:40And you were always playing these menacing characters and no one knew that you were one of those guys that lit up the dressing room.
09:47Right.
09:48Right.
09:49You know, the Godfather, that's fair.
09:54That's the guy that we all know.
09:55Right.
09:56But it's just like you said, you know.
09:57That's what he should have been doing.
09:58Right.
09:59It was already, as you were speaking of, it was already part of him.
10:02You know?
10:03Right.
10:04In reality.
10:05But you had characters who just didn't even smile.
10:07Right?
10:08Yes.
10:09And that wasn't me.
10:10It was hard.
10:11It was just, it was so enjoyable to actually just be myself.
10:13Totally.
10:14And Kane, what about for you?
10:1597 was great for me.
10:17I came in October of 97 and destroyed everyone until...
10:21Yeah.
10:22Yeah.
10:23Not bad.
10:2414.
10:25Sean mentioned that, yeah, we've moved to an era where the wrestling aspect of it was in a backdrop of the characters.
10:34And that's certainly what Kane was, because we'd heard about Kane from Paul Bearer for months before we ever saw him.
10:40Your brother Kane is coming!
10:43You, Undertaker, are gonna burn in hell!
10:48And then when you finally saw him, the table was just set for me.
10:51I had the really privilege and an honor.
10:53I was so nervous that night at In Your House, in Hell in a Cell, because it's The Undertaker versus Shawn Michaels,
11:01and I have to go out there and do my part.
11:04Yeah.
11:05And it's an integral part of the match.
11:06I was, I was, frankly, I was scared to death.
11:08Yeah.
11:09You know, because you have these two legends where I just didn't want to ruin everything.
11:12You know, all the work that they put in a great match.
11:14But the table was set for me, you know, because of the story.
11:16I often say I think it's the best bit of epic storytelling that WWE's ever done, because it wasn't just like people.
11:24We were superheroes.
11:25Yeah.
11:26I remember the first time I ever saw creative for Kane, for the costume.
11:30And I thought it would be like a mentally deranged dude that had just escaped from the asylum.
11:35And it wasn't.
11:36It was like a superhero.
11:37And I called Vince.
11:39Boss, I thought this was gonna, you know, be like this.
11:42And he's like, well, the operative word for Kane is cool.
11:46And that's what he wanted, is he wanted superheroes.
11:49And as weird as that sounds, in an environment where we were transitioning to the Attitude Era,
11:54he wanted superheroes, but he wanted modern superheroes with Thunder and Taker and I.
11:59That had a lot of attitude.
12:00Did not talk for him.
12:01Yeah.
12:02I can't believe I'm sitting here.
12:03I shouldn't be talking here.
12:04I never said a word here until 97.
12:06Did you ever think that, because what fascinates me all the time, again, because I remember that night, the longevity.
12:12Again, and it gives us one of those things, it's a credit to you and Taker, because those are two characters.
12:18Those are two characters that are very difficult to have that kind of longevity for that long because they're so powerful, so dominant.
12:27You know, you run the risk of going through so many people or, you know what I mean?
12:33Right.
12:34If you don't have guys doing that that don't know how to evolve and transition and continue to round out that character and add to him and all of that, that can be short-lived.
12:46You know, again, two guys that whatever, you know, feel no pain, don't talk, don't do, you know what I mean?
12:51Sure.
12:52That's in, you know, in old school psychology or whatever.
12:54Yeah.
12:55That's short-lived.
12:56Yeah.
12:57And that's what has always fascinated me, because again, you know, he's, I mean.
13:01It's hard.
13:02Yeah.
13:03I mean, and then drop the, you know, drop Taker.
13:05Yeah.
13:06I mean, you don't make a bigger impact.
13:07Right.
13:08But you're forced to adapt, you know, or get washed away.
13:12Yeah.
13:13But you guys have done the same thing, and that's why, you know, all of y'all have had the careers that you guys have.
13:18Can I tell a Foley family living room story?
13:21I don't know if I've told you this.
13:22I certainly don't want to hurt your feelings with the first part of it.
13:25You know, my daughter's grown up, you know.
13:27Thanks for that.
13:28I like the preface.
13:29Here we go.
13:31My daughter's very active on social media.
13:34And there are certain characters we go through, like Dude Love, like, don't ask The Undertaker about Dude Love.
13:39Like, it was a, you know, it was a disgrace to everything I'd done before.
13:42He wasn't a Dude Love fan.
13:44Not everyone felt extreme kindness towards Corporate Kane, right?
13:49Like, that wasn't the thing.
13:50Yeah.
13:51So my daughter sends out a tweet and says, I don't know, looking at Corporate Kane just makes me sad.
13:56And two minutes later, she sends out a tweet and goes, my father told me I am never to say anything about Kane, bad about Kane, as long as I'm living in this house.
14:06And I was like, no.
14:07You know, what did you do?
14:08You don't bad mouth Kane in this house.
14:10Corporate Kane did have good suits, though.
14:12I give Corporate Kane props on the suits.
14:14You did a suit, right?
14:15Yeah, thank you.
14:16Not quite as good as him.
14:17Well, there's different variations.
14:19Okay, I'm going to take you guys back to January.
14:21We're going to go to the Royal Rumble.
14:22We're talking about the biggest crowd in Royal Rumble history at the Alamo Dome in San Antonio.
14:27Stone Cold Steve Austin won the Rumble in controversial fashion, being eliminated by Bret Hart.
14:32Austin snuck back in and eliminated the remaining four competitors, all while the referees were preoccupied on the other side of the ring.
14:39You know, that's where we, again, you saw, because when you talk about attitude and everything else, DX and everybody else collectively were, you know, making noise.
14:49But then you had one dude out front that was, you know, going to be the man.
14:53Yeah.
14:54That was going to be the man to take it to the next level.
14:56And I know this is not a Monday Night War show.
14:58It's not a Monday Night War show, but I think it's important to point out that those guys, they were kind of limited by the pay structure dictated the hierarchy there.
15:07Right.
15:08Whereas Mr. McMahon, we were scrambling and he was going to take whatever worked.
15:13And I've told this story before about the summer of 96 when Jimmy Miranda came by with a checklist of like the different T-shirts and things like that.
15:22And, you know, Barry Windham as a stalker had about 15 items.
15:27Mark Henry had all of them.
15:28And Jimmy wanted to know if I thought a Mankind T-shirt would be something I'd be interested in.
15:33Steve Austin came in and was, hey, Miranda, how about a T-shirt for Stone Cold?
15:36And Jimmy got, like, a little flustered.
15:39He said, what's wrong?
15:40Miranda goes, Steve, the company just doesn't see marketing potential in you.
15:45And that was summer of 96.
15:47Wow.
15:48And then that, you know, we call it a rocket ride.
15:50You know, Steve Austin took off and he was not constrained by where he was pay-wise.
15:55You know, it was like, if this guy's working, we're going with it.
15:58All right.
15:59So we'll talk about the rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin.
16:00I mean, we look at WrestleMania 13.
16:02You see the classic double turn where Stone Cold gained the fans' respect by not giving up to Hart Sharpshooter,
16:08while Bret's dirty antics and constant whining started to earn him nothing but booze from the WWE Universe.
16:14So just for that match, I mean, looking at that double turn, what did that do for both of their careers?
16:19Well, it was brilliant.
16:20You know, I mean, Steve was bleeding.
16:21He wouldn't give up.
16:22You see, like, the picture of it right back there.
16:24It's so gnarly.
16:25One of the best WrestleMania matches in history, in my mind.
16:28And you're right.
16:31It was, the subtleties were there.
16:33You know, Bret had been whining, but not to the degree where people could call it.
16:37Ken Shamrock played an integral role as the referee.
16:40And then the main thing is they went out there, tore the house down.
16:43Yeah.
16:44Tore it down.
16:45Without the great match, the turn doesn't mean nearly as much.
16:48Yeah.
16:49Certainly that's where I think, you know, symbolically, the traditional guy that used to be, you know,
16:56stood for what was the good guy.
16:58Yeah.
16:59Now the anti-gritty, the anti-hero.
17:01This match sort of was, you know, symbolic of that sort of shift.
17:05Yes.
17:06You know, where the traditional wrestling guy became the bad guy.
17:09Yeah.
17:10And what was the feeling backstage when that happened?
17:11I mean, when they walked back out through Guerrilla, I mean, how did everybody kind of react
17:14knowing that they were able to achieve that?
17:16Well, I mean, that's a testament to them, you know.
17:19Yeah.
17:20You know, as wrestlers, you know.
17:22And for me, sitting back there, it was something I wanted to be a fan.
17:27Yeah.
17:28That's how we were.
17:29That they did the job they did.
17:30I mean, I wasn't surprised.
17:31No, no.
17:32No.
17:33I guess to me, that's the thing.
17:34I mean, you go, because you could feel, there was a, for me, it was, you know, and
17:37then this whole time, there was a, it was palpable.
17:40You could feel, you know, what was going on, and you could see it with him, and that night
17:44was no different.
17:45Yeah.
17:46I mean, and that picture, again, you know, catches that moment, and that's when you go,
17:50you know, something.
17:51It's happening.
17:52Yeah.
17:53So when Stone Cold broke his neck, and he's not working for a year, but still able to stay
17:56over, how is that possible, to not even be working and still be as over as Stone Cold
18:01was?
18:02Again, that's a testament to him.
18:03Yeah.
18:04And what he had done thus far.
18:05And that's also, sometimes, as you guys know, that's better.
18:08Yes.
18:09You know, and I don't mean getting hurt, but again, now you're, they're getting to see
18:12you, I mean, now he's got nothing but time to develop that, it's all character driven
18:19at that point, right?
18:20Yeah, it was like, and nobody, nobody can get to you, but you can get, you know what
18:26I mean?
18:27We're gonna make him wait for that entree, and he was able to really, you know, solidify
18:30the anti-authority figure.
18:31Right.
18:32As it turned out, you know, the culmination, Mr. McMahon just happened to take the worst
18:37stunner in the history of Stone Cold.
18:39Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:40But we all pretended we didn't see the worst stunner.
18:43You can kiss my ass.
18:49When Mr. McMahon did take that first stunner, I mean, how symbolic was that in just looking
18:53at how that all went down at MSG?
18:55Yeah, it was crazy.
18:56I mean, when you sell out, the only two things that sell out the monitor backstage is the
19:01potential when something's either really good or really bad.
19:04There's no in between, so people were just glued and in a lot of cases didn't just want
19:09to look at the monitor, want to be out there absorbing the atmosphere, peeking their head
19:13out.
19:14It was, the ovation was thunderous.
19:16Road Warrior-esque, I'll go so far.
19:17Yeah.
19:18Road Warrior-esque.
19:19We talk about crazy raw moments.
19:21So in March of 1997, had the Raw is War made its debut with you guys.
19:27So Monday Night Raw received a huge upgrade with an elaborate new set, a huge Titan Tron
19:32and a gritty new warehouse type design with fiery barrels and pyro displays opening each
19:37show, a full rebranding and definitely a more down and dirty type of look.
19:41How did you guys feel about seeing these new graphics and seeing everything come in
19:44and just the whole facelift?
19:46I believe it was after the cell match, after you made your debut, we had like a meeting
19:51and Vince, and Vince, you know, let everyone show.
19:54That's right, I remember that.
19:55The meeting where he said, hey, maybe things have passed us by, that was the dawn of the
19:59editor.
20:00Maybe things, you know, the days of these characters working, if we're going to succeed, you have
20:05to put yourselves into these characters.
20:07We're going there.
20:08We're going there, yeah.
20:09And so I think that was just an example of, you know, the set was probably an example of
20:14where we wanted to go.
20:15Right.
20:16And see that same, I mean, this, everybody here, all very different kind of people, but
20:19that entire crew, look, that's all anybody needed was, you know, like the, you know,
20:24let's go, I mean, and that's what we got from him.
20:27So from that point on, yeah, there was a Monday Night War going, all that, but our job
20:31was to just do our thing, to make this the best we could.
20:34We were all doing that.
20:35And I think, you know, everybody knew that eventually, because anybody who knows the guy
20:40we worked for, we may not be winning now, but we will be the last ones standing up.
20:46Yeah.
20:47Because he's, you know, he's not going to give up.
20:48No.
20:49You know, we were just out there, you know, yeah, make our segment the best, and now
20:52everybody was doing stuff, for the most part, that they enjoyed, and so.
20:56Enjoyed.
20:57Yeah.
20:58We were having such a good time doing, I was.
20:59A lot of fun.
21:00Man, it was just fun, it was just fun to go to work, be part of everything, and I was
21:05watching what everybody was doing.
21:06Yeah.
21:07It was a great time.
21:08Well, it's crazy, even just thinking when we were sitting outside, and you guys were
21:10saying, man, I would do it all over again.
21:11Yeah.
21:12You're saying you would have been doing it for free.
21:13Oh.
21:14Team and Ellie, not on TV.
21:15Yeah.
21:16It's all right, you've already been there, you're good.
21:18Yeah.
21:19Okay, so Shotgun Saturday night.
21:21Shotgun started running in nightclubs around New York City.
21:24At one point, even put on a live show from Penn Station, definitely felt like guerrilla programming
21:29in a way, and it was another indication of the company's shift in attitude.
21:33What was it like performing in those clubs, specifically for you too?
21:36Well, for me, this is what I remember, right?
21:39At some times, you know, when we're doing like the bars and everything, the most annoying
21:44thing for me was when we were in there wrestling, and you got the guys that would be drinking,
21:49and they're around you, right?
21:50Yeah.
21:51You can't get in there and stop what you're doing, but now it's like they're almost looking
21:54at you like you're in the zoo or something, and they're throwing stuff in the ring, and
21:58you won't.
21:59And for me, it was like, God, if I could just get out of here.
22:03Did that ever happen?
22:04No, it didn't.
22:05I wanted to.
22:06Yeah.
22:07All we were trying to do is just finish.
22:08I've got two recollections from Shotgun Saturday Night.
22:11One is working with Bret Hart, and I thought it should have that raw, gritty feel, so we
22:16agreed not to mention anything.
22:18We just went out there in the ring, and so it may have lacked in like flashiness, but it
22:23was nice, and it was gritty, and it's a match that a lot of people remember.
22:27And then I also remember Davey Boy Smith trying to do something you just don't do, which is
22:34take off my shirt.
22:35And I believe somewhere in there you hear a high-pitched voice, go, not the shirt!
22:42It's the shirt, it's the age of the cover.
22:45Yeah.
22:46And that's also, to me, one of the neatest things about all this, and it was doing reality
22:52stuff long before anybody had a name for it, to be perfectly honest.
22:55You know what I mean?
22:56And you're sitting there going like, oh, yeah, yeah.
23:00Me, they never scripted me, and I think it's because they didn't know what to say.
23:05Yeah.
23:06And I literally had carte blanche to go out there and say what I wanted to.
23:09Yeah.
23:10You really had the freedom to speak your mind.
23:12Well, and even that, did we have, I mean, I guess Russo was here, but I mean, we didn't,
23:15there wasn't, you know, again, that's what's always so funny.
23:17People think there's always been a creative team and all that.
23:19Right.
23:20I mean, when did that start to come in of having the creative team?
23:24In 97.
23:25It was then.
23:26I think when Vince Russo, like I said, we had just the one, but he didn't script anything.
23:29It was just, we sort of had a.
23:31Oh, bro, this is what I like, you know.
23:33Right.
23:34Right.
23:35Because we've become much more of a television production.
23:39Part of it, I think, is just the nature of business.
23:42You know, they have to.
23:43Society is different.
23:44Yeah.
23:45Totally.
23:46We've just become more complex as far as, you know, they've got 10,000 different cameras
23:50and they're trying to get this angle and that angle.
23:51Sponsorships.
23:52Yeah.
23:53Yes.
23:54But that also takes the spontaneity away.
23:55Right.
23:56You know, it makes the television production probably better as far as hitting what we want
24:00to hit.
24:01But I think that's one of the major differences is we were relied on to be a major component
24:07of the creative team.
24:08Right.
24:09And it's just what you said.
24:10You know, they just give you the bullet punch like that because I remember, you know, doing
24:13a lot of the vignettes.
24:14They said, Ron, this is what we want to hit on, you know.
24:16Let me tell you the most fierce threat in this world today is seeing powerful, intelligent
24:21black human beings, black men get together for one cause.
24:25And sometimes they couldn't write, you know, the words that I would express.
24:29Yeah.
24:30Of course.
24:31You know.
24:32But they gave you the freedom, though.
24:34Yeah, yeah.
24:35That's what I'm saying.
24:36Yeah, yeah.
24:37That's right for you.
24:38You got to put it in your words.
24:39Yeah.
24:40You know.
24:41Right.
24:42Okay, let's talk about the divas.
24:43The divas of 1997.
24:44What did you think, you know, what did they bring to the table?
24:45How did they kind of change how the shows went along?
24:46Draw some names.
24:47Yeah.
24:48Let's start with Sunny.
24:49I think she's the original, right?
24:50Yeah.
24:51I mean, again, that's, I think, but it wasn't a diva then.
24:55I mean, well, she was a lady manager.
24:57Yeah.
24:58I mean, I think Tammy, you know, again, Tammy's, you know, talent.
25:01Again, she had the gift to Gab.
25:03Yeah.
25:04That's for sure.
25:05You know, and I worked with her coming in with the blue helmet.
25:07Yeah.
25:08Right.
25:09Yeah.
25:10Yeah.
25:11You know, when I first started, she was with me.
25:12Yeah.
25:13And managing me, you know.
25:14And she had great charisma.
25:16You put on the stick, like Shawn was saying, and she was very good at it.
25:19Hey, girls, you're going to get jealous.
25:22I am exactly where you all want to be in the men's locker room tonight.
25:28Perfectly placed right next to the entrance to the showers.
25:33And, you know, I think she had a lot to do with, as you can see, she's good looking.
25:37Yeah.
25:38So it had a lot to do with how the divas has evolved.
25:40Yeah.
25:41Yeah.
25:42And also, again, getting them, and I don't mean it to imply again they didn't have the respect,
25:45but again, to just see that you could trust them with a many, you know, many different,
25:48you know, they could be beautiful, they could talk, they could, you know, they could be athletes.
25:53You know what I mean?
25:54Yeah, women can get some things done.
25:56Yeah.
25:57But again, but it's much like it was hard even for us to get out of that traditional mold.
26:03It was the same way even for the women.
26:05Totally.
26:06That's, change is, you know, change is scary.
26:10Sometimes.
26:11Talk about that change, talk about Chyna.
26:13Yes.
26:14And the different issue with it.
26:15They became, they became an integral part of the show.
26:17They were no longer just icing on the cake.
26:19Yeah.
26:20Right.
26:21And yes, they were all different.
26:22You know, you had Sonny, then you had Sable, and then you had Chyna come out and compete against the guys.
26:28I believe we've got the footage here to show because there were a few people who were very resistant to the idea of, you know, a woman getting the best of them physically.
26:36And, you know, I was working quite a bit with Hunter and we really enjoyed the matches and Joni's participation.
26:43And I'm like, what about if, and it ends up, I think, Hunter reverses an Irish whip outside and Joni power slammed me into the stairs.
26:52And I'd like to think that that opened up some eyes in the dressing room where they all, she can do it to him, I guess.
26:57Right.
26:58To him, I guess, to me.
26:59Yeah.
27:00I was one of the guys that had a match against him.
27:01Yeah.
27:02I don't think there's anyone who.
27:03I was looking forward to it.
27:04Yeah.
27:05This is going to be great.
27:06This is, again, you know, no matter what anybody wants to say, this was a generation that, again, didn't worry, didn't take themselves so serious.
27:14One, didn't worry about how they looked.
27:16Right.
27:17Right.
27:18Absolutely.
27:19And didn't worry about what the people said to them, what they thought of them in the gym the next day.
27:22Right.
27:23It's nice not to have to check Twitter at that point.
27:25Yeah.
27:26Well, yeah.
27:27We were just like, you know, for all of us, we were competing.
27:30Let's see who can make them, make them yell the loudest tonight.
27:32Exactly.
27:33Yeah.
27:34That's where we competed.
27:35It wasn't in wins and losses and silly stuff like that.
27:38Nobody cared about getting beat up.
27:40Yeah.
27:41Going over to the house town.
27:42That was a blast.
27:43One bit of China physicality I don't think we've seen in a long time on TV.
27:49China was going to give me a low blow as I climbed the cage against Triple H and I was, believe it or not, I climbed too quickly when I was up too high and she couldn't physically get the low blowing.
28:00So she just reared back and punched me in the butt.
28:03Punch me.
28:04Right in the butt.
28:06It worked.
28:07Yeah.
28:08Oh my goodness.
28:11So as the company's growing and developing, I was starting to take things international.
28:16In 1997, several episodes of Raw took place north of the border in Canadian cities.
28:21Depending on the night, Raw crowds would have completely different reactions.
28:24How did that make the atmosphere kind of change week to week?
28:28It didn't seem on paper like, like Canada wasn't, it wasn't the USSR of the 90s.
28:37There's no James Bond films.
28:39Yeah, they didn't like the nation too.
28:41But they, they didn't like this, but it worked.
28:43I mean, it worked.
28:44And I remember Sean asking me, Hey, what can I say is, you know, Canada, you're a great group of people.
28:51What can we say?
28:52And I said, what do you say?
28:53I remember when I was a little boy getting my group of Canadian army men.
28:58Oh my God.
28:59They came out of the package like this.
29:02That's right.
29:03I remember that.
29:04Oh my God.
29:05Oh my goodness.
29:06So you had to, you had to get your points where you could, you know?
29:09And so, you know, Brett, yeah, remember that?
29:12I was like, when I was back to this guy.
29:13That's what I love about this stuff.
29:14You guys telling stories like, oh my, that's awesome.
29:16I remember you guys doing that.
29:17And then I do remember you saying it because it's like, did I miss something in history class?
29:22Kind of something with the Canadians.
29:23Right.
29:24Yeah.
29:25But I believe you came up with the Canadian flag sticking in your nose all by yourself.
29:29Yes.
29:30Which did not go over well with our friends.
29:32Well, yeah.
29:33Well, it was as easy for the nation to go up there and poke fun at them.
29:36Because they hated us, period, anyway.
29:38They hated us here, too.
29:39Yeah.
29:40They hated us just as much here.
29:42Yeah.
29:43They really didn't like us there because I really did a lot, did a number on them for
29:48piggybacking off of the U.S., always getting their asses out of trouble.
29:53Right.
29:54For the United States, you'd be speaking German.
29:56So they really hated it.
29:58They hated it.
29:59Why?
30:00Don't ever run.
30:01Don't ever run.
30:02I'm so sad I wasn't around.
30:03Yeah.
30:04Go back and watch the pay-per-view from the Calgary Saddle Dome.
30:08I mean, this was an in-your-house that's looked at with such reverence.
30:12Because every match was a good one.
30:14There were only four matches on the card, I believe.
30:16And that final one, you know, it was just, like, such a homecoming.
30:20Yeah.
30:21And at that time, that's what's so funny is because, like, at that time,
30:24they're allowed to really go there and really hammer them.
30:27Yeah.
30:28Just hammer them.
30:29Again, you know, make the fact they've been a nice country.
30:34And like you said, in which you probably could not do.
30:37No, you couldn't do it today, I don't think.
30:39No.
30:40You probably couldn't do any of that stuff.
30:41No, you couldn't do it.
30:42You know what I mean?
30:43No.
30:44You couldn't touch.
30:45In that time, I didn't even...
30:47I'm not smart enough to grasp, and certainly at that time, I wasn't...
30:51Well, but I mean, I'm not Canadian.
30:53I know we see our flag as the, you know, as...
30:57Yeah.
30:58But it's, you know, I'm...
31:00I am a dumb American that doesn't know that they're flagged the same way.
31:03And so I'm just out there doing whatever with flags.
31:06I mean, heck, and I can remember Daniel Brett going,
31:09man, you've got so much heat in here.
31:10Do something with the flag.
31:11And so I was like, nope, nope, nope.
31:13Okay.
31:14And I had no idea that, you know, being in that heat, whatever heat is working,
31:16being like, you're gonna get killed.
31:18You walk out of this building, you're gonna get knifed.
31:21For sure.
31:22So I was just...
31:23My job was to be the bad guy, and so I was gonna do whatever I had to do with the flag,
31:27and, you know, it did seem...
31:29And yeah, nowadays, there's just absolutely no way...
31:33No.
31:34No.
31:35I'd imagine you couldn't even do the traditional old-school wrestling characters...
31:40No.
31:41...like they used to, because you'd get hammered for...
31:45Bigots, racists.
31:46Yeah, you know what I mean?
31:47Racists.
31:48You know what I mean?
31:49Just trying to get, you know, the old-school, throwing the salt in the eyes, and, you know...
31:52Yeah.
31:53Or, you know, again, the standard old...
31:54Yeah, again.
31:55And so that's what I mean.
31:56So for us, I mean, it was just sort of...
31:58In our minds, we don't...
31:59We know what we're doing is silly, and so we don't feel like...
32:03You're not...
32:04Yeah.
32:05Yeah, I mean...
32:06They're really offended.
32:07Exactly.
32:08With all due respect, don't look to any of us to be the moral hive.
32:13Yeah.
32:14Or to raise your children when we're just...
32:15We're out there playing our...
32:16Yeah.
32:17You know, we're just out there doing our jobs.
32:18Just doing it.
32:19Yeah, yeah.
32:20Yeah, I mean, nobody told us that we were, you know, also supposed to be...
32:24Yeah.
32:25...helping...
32:26Totally.
32:27Yeah.
32:28Not at that time, right?
32:29I mean, my goodness.
32:30On the other side of Canada, for Brett doing the anti-USA promos, I mean, that was another
32:35big moment as well for Brett.
32:37I don't think we get as hot about it as they did.
32:40Yeah.
32:41You know, like, when Brett said...
32:42We got that underdog at him.
32:43He gave a great speech.
32:44He goes, Canada, we look out for the old and the weak.
32:47Canada's a country where we still take care of the sick and the old.
32:50Where we still have healthcare.
32:52We got gun control.
32:57We don't shoot each other and kill each other on every street corner.
33:01It wasn't like we had people in the US going, you son of a...
33:04What?
33:05You know?
33:06It was more of another indication that the hero was...
33:11The whole hero, anti-hero thing was turning.
33:13Yeah.
33:14And that there was a new era.
33:15When you have the guy who'd just been absolutely squeaky clean, smiling, huge white
33:21baby face, and now he's going out there and saying whatever.
33:26But I think the more that was an indication that this is a new era.
33:30Yeah.
33:31But if you take Brett's initial change at WrestleMania with Steve, and then the culmination of Brett's
33:36run in Montreal in November, I mean...
33:40See, you can't script that.
33:43Yeah.
33:44You know what I mean?
33:45And that's, again, symbolic of the time.
33:47Real home.
33:48All of this that was going on, very little of it was people going...
33:53You know?
33:54It just...
33:55It didn't...
33:56It just...
33:57You guys, right?
33:58It didn't work that way.
33:59You probably never realized how big a deal some of this stuff was either.
34:00That's the beginning.
34:01I don't think we did.
34:02Yeah.
34:03Well, that happened.
34:04You know, we got to show them, talk about it, and move on.
34:05Exactly.
34:06And then, years later.
34:07What's good on the road.
34:08Exactly.
34:09Well, that's what everybody asks.
34:10Like, that's the thing.
34:11Like, you know, we...
34:12No one went about this like, we're going to revolutionize the industry.
34:15Yeah.
34:16Change it forever.
34:17This will be the biggest grossing time.
34:19It wasn't like that.
34:20Again, as smart as these two are, everybody was doing that.
34:24Everybody was just going to work and doing a job they love doing.
34:28Stuff was just happening.
34:29Yeah.
34:30I look back now at some of the stuff that I did and said on TV, and I'm just like,
34:34I don't believe I got away with saying that.
34:36Yeah.
34:37Oh, my God.
34:38I don't believe I said that.
34:39Right.
34:40Because every night, you're just doing it, man.
34:41And it's just...
34:42You're not thinking what you're saying.
34:43You're just having fun doing it.
34:44And I'm serious.
34:45Some of the stuff that I've done is just like, wow, you couldn't do that today.
34:50No.
34:51There's a story I heard about the Rock's evolution where DX was kind of having their
34:58way with, especially with Rock, who was trying to do things that he was told to do.
35:05And, you know, he was being one-upped by Triple H in particular.
35:10And Bruce Pritchard pulled him aside and said, are you willing to get chewed out by Vince?
35:14He goes, yes.
35:15He goes, we're live.
35:18Yeah.
35:19Do what you have to do.
35:20Yeah.
35:21And then he would get yelled at by Vince.
35:22But the promos were much better.
35:24And you had...
35:25And sometimes the things were good when you do what Terry Funk calls borderlining, you know?
35:29Because there were times when there really was no love lost between Triple H and The Rock.
35:35And it showed.
35:36Yeah.
35:37And it made for good TV, good rivalries.
35:38And then you have people at home doing exactly what I liked to do when I was a kid,
35:42which is go back to school and go, that was real.
35:46You know?
35:47I know that other, but that was real.
35:49Yeah.
35:50And that's the thing.
35:51I mean, he started, you know, evolving.
35:53Triple H.
35:54Yeah.
35:55Yeah.
35:56Yeah.
35:57You know, again, that was the first thing.
35:59So you see this guy that's, you know, you hang out with him and he's one way and they've
36:02got him doing this character, you know, snob and all that.
36:05And he does it well, but it's, you see another side of him and you go, gosh, if we could bring
36:09that side of you out and that's honestly how we came up with the whole idea of DX and everything
36:14else.
36:15So yeah, let's just talk about Hunter Hearst Helmsley into getting into Triple H and you
36:18guys developing into DX.
36:19Yeah.
36:20This whole attitude here is going on.
36:22There's this change and you want, you know, him to evolve.
36:26He wants to evolve.
36:27And it's like, let's start bringing that side of you out.
36:30Nope.
36:31But to, but to make it naturally transition from the, you know, Greenwich snob, it needs
36:36to be, you know, done the correct way.
36:38So I do the tag team.
36:39That's how DX starts.
36:40And in the formative days, I'll tell you what, this is the, this, the words said most
36:45often when you guys are out there, it'd be like me leaning over and going, are they allowed
36:49to say that?
36:50Sergeant Slaughter, your wife, your old lady is not too thrilled with your private.
36:59As a matter of fact, from what I hear, you're having a little problem going past half-mast.
37:11And I think you helped Hunter find his voice.
37:15Sure.
37:16So he did leave.
37:17He was ready to take the reins.
37:20And certainly confident.
37:21Yeah.
37:22You know what I mean?
37:23Again, I mean, that really didn't help him.
37:24When I came into the company, Hunter was taking up residence in Mr. McMahon's doghouse.
37:28You know?
37:29Yeah.
37:30Yeah, yeah.
37:31He had a lot of heat.
37:32And for many months, you know, he just kind of.
37:36Yeah, he just takes up residence in Mr. McMahon's house.
37:39You know?
37:40You know?
37:41He's got the key tag.
37:43He took me from the click curtain call.
37:45It took, like, right before I came.
37:46And you couldn't punish the world champion.
37:48So Hunter.
37:49I went on to Hunter.
37:50I'm sure.
37:51Hunter was, yeah.
37:52And he took it?
37:53He took it like a man.
37:54Yeah.
37:55But he was in a tough spot.
37:57You know?
37:58He went out there.
37:59He worked hard every night.
38:00And so I imagine, you know, inside he had a lot of things he'd been dying to say for a long time.
38:05So that when he had the chance as DX to, you know, let his hair down.
38:09Let it out.
38:10Yeah.
38:11Let the hair down.
38:12Like all these guys, I don't know.
38:13Everybody, you know, gets in it to do this job well.
38:16And Hunter was the same way.
38:17And that's, you know, again, he just, you know, he felt like that was his first opportunity to do it to finally do that.
38:24And even having one night only going out there and having that pay-per-view in the UK.
38:28Did it feel big to be there to have that, to have a pay-per-view there?
38:31Yeah.
38:32Well, yeah.
38:33Well, certainly because, I mean, the one that we were beating David Boyd and winning the championship,
38:38that was the first time going like, okay, so we can do, we can still have fun, do this, and get real heat.
38:43Yeah.
38:44Yeah.
38:45And, you know, not just, you know, you know.
38:48Real heat.
38:49We love him, but we'll boo him because we know he's the bad guy.
38:51That was real serious anger.
38:53Mm-hmm.
38:54And, uh.
38:55There were three shows in a row that were stopped because of, you know, debris being thrown.
39:00Oh, my gosh.
39:01The X matches.
39:02Yeah.
39:03That was tough.
39:04They had some serious heat.
39:05Yeah.
39:06They tried to burn the building down a little.
39:07Yeah, they did.
39:08I remember that.
39:09That's right.
39:10Yeah.
39:11That's right.
39:12That's the end of the show.
39:13Yeah.
39:14Yeah.
39:15Yeah.
39:16Yeah.
39:17And Jack Landis saying back, like, is that it?
39:19And I said, wait.
39:20I said, we can't go out.
39:21They said, Joni's going to get killed.
39:22Because Joni had to stand there like this.
39:23They were just killing them.
39:24Target.
39:25Yeah.
39:26I said, I can't let, I'm not, I'm not going to let her make her stand out there.
39:28I said, that's it.
39:29And so they didn't get their main event.
39:31And, ooh, boy would they do it.
39:33Ooh.
39:34Well, Mick, you're up now.
39:35Wow.
39:36Talking Foley.
39:37So you'd previously been known to WWE audiences simply as mankind.
39:40But after a series of sit down interviews with Jim Ross, the WWE Universe was introduced
39:45to the other faces of Foley.
39:47Cactus Jack and Dude Love.
39:49What was it about those interviews you think that kind of helped set those characters in
39:53the right direction?
39:54Well, I mentioned earlier there was a conversation I had with Sean.
39:57Bruce Prichard overheard about the existence of this Dude Love fellow that Mr. McMahon
40:02became, like, enamored with the idea of the character.
40:06And kind of grudgingly came to accept that, like, the real life story I had to tell was
40:12more interesting than the fictional one that we'd created together.
40:15And it was just like, uh, I talk about an element of magic that you can't predict
40:20and you can't script.
40:21And it was in that room that night.
40:24I feel just like every other person!
40:28You see that?
40:30It hurts!
40:33Is it when I can't get up?
40:35When my little boy says, Denny, I want to play ball, and I can't do it?
40:40Is that where the fun starts?
40:44Is it where a doctor injects a 12-inch needle into the discs in my spine so I can wrestle
40:50one more day?
40:51Whoopee!
40:52I didn't even know Mr. McMahon was there.
40:55It was dark, and we'd talked for about 45 minutes straight, and they went to change
40:59tapes, and I heard a voice in the darkness say, this is outstanding.
41:04And that's when I became a made man, you know?
41:07Yeah.
41:08In the company.
41:09I had a list of things.
41:10I had an active list of the 10 best things I'd ever done, you know, in the business.
41:16The match with Shawn from Mind Games, 96, was there.
41:19And those interviews, you know, that made such a big difference.
41:24That's cool.
41:25All right.
41:26Time to bring it back to Rocky.
41:27Got to talk about The Rock.
41:28So, Rock was still playing the happy-to-be-there, smiling, nice guy Rocky Maivia until an unfortunate
41:34injury.
41:35But when Rock returned, he joined Farouk in the Nation of Domination, laying the groundwork
41:39for what would eventually become the most electrifying man in sports entertainment.
41:44What was it to you guys that you saw in Rock early on?
41:47Well, no.
41:48Everything was there with him.
41:49Pedigree and everything.
41:50And if you go back, before he got in the Nation, they tried a couple of things with him.
41:56It wasn't catching on.
41:57They tried to stay heritage with him.
41:59The people wouldn't buy him.
42:00And, you know, we had to bring him through the Nation, give him a little bit more of an
42:05edge character.
42:06He didn't only pick up that, he picked up a lot more things back there behind the scenes
42:10as far as from the Farouk character itself, you know, took that off and formed his own
42:17persona.
42:18Yeah.
42:19I mean, yeah.
42:20And he put it all together, you know?
42:22Everything, which I love about him.
42:23It's something as simple as he referred himself in third person and never deviated from it.
42:27Yeah.
42:28Once he said The Rock, he was never I, he never said I, The Rock, stuck with it.
42:33Yeah.
42:34You know?
42:35And it was something that he drew, he drew a little bit from everywhere, you know?
42:39His heritage, you know, the pedigree there, he drew something from my character as Farouk
42:44when he did that.
42:45Because I would say some things back there behind the scenes, you know, like, know your
42:49roles to all these guys.
42:50Yeah.
42:51You know?
42:52He took that out there and made several million dollars.
42:54I think I should have trademarked that.
42:56Damn.
42:57Right.
42:58You know?
42:59But yeah, but it was just that, you know, which was something to see with him, man.
43:03And the way he took off with it, it's just unbelievable.
43:06Yeah.
43:07And I think some of it, obviously, letting him be a heel.
43:08Yeah.
43:09Again, when you get to a chance to be a bad guy.
43:11Right.
43:12That's a whole heck of a lot more fun.
43:13Right.
43:14You know, you've got a much broader range of stuff to work with creatively.
43:19You know, you're sometimes in a box.
43:21Yeah.
43:22As a good guy.
43:23You know, you only feel like, you know, you can't go too far one way or too far the
43:26other.
43:27It was a special challenge from The Rock.
43:29Don't ever touch me.
43:31From The Rock.
43:32So that certainly gave him, opened him up to all sorts of opportunities, so to speak.
43:37Ron was a guy, whether he was a good guy or a bad guy, he commanded respect.
43:42You know, from the locker room, even the fans, you knew he was a guy to respect.
43:46So in that one faithful at Raw, where The Rock was starting to give you gifts.
43:53Yeah.
43:54And you open up that thing and it's a portrait of The Rock with that eye open.
43:57And again, it's backstage.
43:59That's good.
44:00That's good.
44:01And then I think it was shortly after that.
44:02With all due respect, the people want to hear the champ.
44:05And you know what?
44:06Hey, hey, hey.
44:07With all due respect, the champ is talking.
44:14And it just took to a whole new level, right?
44:17Yeah.
44:18You know?
44:19And you know, it was really, it was like a magical type of thing.
44:23From where it was here, and it just went, just boom.
44:27You know?
44:28Took off.
44:29And also, you know, again, putting him with credible guys.
44:32Yeah.
44:33And then the credible guys helping to make him.
44:37You know what I mean?
44:38And loving doing it.
44:40Yes.
44:41Yeah.
44:42You know?
44:43Right.
44:44D-Lo had such a good time trying to help build him up.
44:46And it was so electrifying to be part of that.
44:48Yeah.
44:49And Rocky was great about it, man.
44:51One thing good about it, he's just a good dude, too.
44:53Yeah.
44:54And I always tell people, man, that success couldn't have happened to a better person.
44:58Yeah.
44:59But it was great being part of that, man, just to feel all that energy in there at the beginning of that.
45:04And to be part of helping to build the rock.
45:06Yeah.
45:07Even though we haven't been in none of his movies or anything, that's okay.
45:09That's okay.
45:10But, you know, my last time I seen Rocky, he seen my youngest son.
45:15And then he told him, you know, he's like, hey, you have no idea how much your dad has helped me build my career, man.
45:22I want to tell you, thank you, that you got a good father.
45:24That's cool.
45:25You know?
45:26And I'm like, that's cool, man.
45:27Yeah.
45:28But we were there.
45:29But it was great, man.
45:30He's a good dude.
45:31And we had a good time.
45:32And nobody better than this man to help build that.
45:34Yeah.
45:35Being a guy sitting at home watching it, I mean, I look back now, look at the depth of talent that was all you guys had in that 97, 98 time.
45:45And for all those people to go on.
45:47Yeah.
45:48But, I mean, you talk about a deep bench.
45:50All you guys were on fire.
45:52Yeah.
45:53I mean, everybody was over at that time.
45:55You know, it's the same thing, like, with DX, the same with the nation, right?
45:59Each one of them, even for me, you know, what was really, that I loved the most about it, each one of them came out and had their own character, had their own individual styles of doing things once they came out of the nation, you know?
46:12And they just kept going.
46:13You know, that's the best part.
46:15Yeah.
46:16So we briefly touched on a little bit before, but to take things back to the Montreal Screwjob and just the significance of that, what it meant to your career, to Bret's career, and just what that did to WWE in general at the time.
46:27Can you kind of run us through what happened at the Montreal Screwjob?
46:29Well, that's, obviously, that's where Vince wanted to make sure that Bret didn't leave with the championship.
46:36We felt like we had to make sure that he didn't, and so we accomplished our goal.
46:40Yeah.
46:41Are you kidding me?
46:42Are you trying to beat Bret Hart with a sharp shooter?
46:45Yes, he is.
46:46Are you kidding me?
46:47Let's go!
46:48Yeah!
46:49What?
46:50I think I'm cute.
46:51again it was one of those events adam lee you know wants to you know i'm gonna take the heat
47:08and this that and the other and you try to explain to him you can take all you want but it's gonna
47:13go where it's gonna go and it isn't gonna go on you because you're the boss and you know again
47:17people can look at you and say like you know with all due respect i think that was wrong
47:22i mean i'm still gonna work for you i mean i you know but that was wrong well i i no no i'm saying
47:28quit the company yeah yeah nick nick gets a phone call and you know he's at the did you tell him
47:35that you were not going to be at uh raw i did and then it was my wife who uh read my contract told
47:41me the next day i just voided my contract and couldn't work anywhere in the world the next five
47:45years yeah which point i did return it was a one-day break backstage i remember and again
47:52i don't mean i didn't mean i'm just saying i was used to you know i'll take the not anybody liking
47:56me that one i can i'm a grown man i can take that but the the losing the trust of your peers is the
48:03one that sucks did it feel like there was any of that i mean just seeing where the company was going
48:07at the time to feel like oh my god anything can happen and maybe i need to kind of be a little bit
48:11more aware keep your guard up there was a lot of uncertainty it was like what happened i don't
48:15think anyone really really knew mick i think you do yeah and that's it we kept it i mean that's the
48:21thing we were told not to tell anybody yeah vince's deal how much you wanted to tell everybody we didn't
48:26know so we you know and we had a meeting was two days later i think you know and vince sort of
48:32explained things but you know just an overview so i think the thing was that no one knew what had
48:38happened and a lot of us were just sort of drawing our own conclusions and and the idea that somebody
48:43we all looked up to like mr mcmahon the idea that he could be having financial troubles like that
48:48wait a second the fate of the company right is at hand like i think that's something he never told
48:53again because you know he's the boss yeah and so they go by the way i'm you know you want to
48:57steal a bunch of confidence you guys you know i've been you know i've mortgaged my house
49:02because wcw is you know right rocking our world and everything else but don't worry i want you to
49:06stick with me yeah yeah looking big picture you know he was just the guy he was just a very subtle
49:13play-by-play man before then yeah subtle so yeah i mean just a development of mr mcmahon and how
49:19significant that moment was for him to kind of create that mr mcmahon yeah i think that was huge
49:23because you know i don't think you can understate how important mr mcmahon was to the evolution of
49:28stone cold right and the evolution of stone cold put a lot of money in all of our pockets right yeah may i
49:34call the magic a video yes because sure because on the night of the montreal screw job there was a
49:42it's been very little noticed the hang time i achieved when kane first pay-per-view threw me from
49:50the table defying all lodgies i've no got no spring in my step whatsoever it had to be all him but just
49:57if he could slow-mo it somehow just slow-mo it boomerang you guys were talking about everyone
50:04helping each other out and definitely mick helped me out tremendously and he didn't have to do that
50:10because he was established you know um that it was it was my first big angle and did everything he could
50:17to ensure that i would be successful and i think that everyone realized that that was going to come
50:22back around i think that was another difference from the old days when when guys were getting built it
50:26wasn't like okay you know they're gonna i'm just gonna get thrown into the grinder here and that's
50:31the end of me um you know i think the guys had become smart enough to realize this guy is going
50:36to make money which means we're all going to all the money and then back around but i do thank you for
50:41all you did for me renee i'm convinced the only reason i have occasional falling outs with the company
50:47is so i can have closure when i return again i get to get that several times not just one moment of
50:55closure several months of closure well right but about what i'm saying i mean how many guys have
50:59whatever you know i'm never going back or have left or buried the company and he takes them back
51:04you know i mean you know what i mean and so you know or and then if you don't do that you're a brown
51:09nose or you know a kiss ass what i mean so you can't win either way depending on who you are like
51:15you know it's okay you know you know those guys like mick and he talks to everybody but if you don't
51:19talk to him you're a bit you're in big trouble you know i don't know it is it's a lot of mumbo jumbo
51:24and again like you said if it's you know heaven forbid this it's what we you know it's what most of
51:29us do and it's what we enjoy doing and so to be able to have more opportunity when the wrestling
51:34part of it is over is it's a nice it's a nice feeling yeah you know and and everybody here
51:39there's a whole other generation growing up with this same group on the network and that creates
51:45more work out there for you or whatever appearances i mean it's just look i could you know i could think
51:51of a lot worse you know this business was not like that yeah 25 years ago raise my kids
51:56yeah raise me you know oh guys thank you so much for joining me uh looking back yeah we're done
52:04this is it a look back in 1997 this has been the dawn of attitude
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