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  • 19/06/2025
Transcript
00:00I guess the debate we don't really have is about the choices we need to make.
00:04Because instead of thinking about just one mode of travel, constantly focusing on rail,
00:08we need to think about multimodal, integrated transport.
00:12And it'll be different in different places.
00:14We do know about rail that it is very expensive.
00:17We all deeply regret the decision to get rid of these railway lines in the first place,
00:21and it shouldn't have happened.
00:22But now it has happened.
00:24The cost of restoring them is very significant.
00:26And once the money is spent once, you can't spend it on something else, obviously.
00:31But the feasibility study that the petition refers to into the Avonwen to Carnarvon line
00:36and looking alongside at the outline costs of a Camar then to a Bristwith line
00:44showed that the indicative costs for restoring both of these is in the region of £2 billion.
00:50Now, that's £2 billion we don't have to spend on all the other transport priorities we have in Wales.
00:55And as the research clearly shows, the number of passengers that would be carried by these train services
01:02would be relatively few, which means that the ongoing cost is not just the £2 billion to build it,
01:07but the ongoing subsidy, the revenue cost for running those services, which would be significant.
01:13Now, that may be a choice that the Senate wants to make, but it needs to be clear,
01:17the governors to choose, that's a choice you're making over and above something else.
01:22And as the study pointed out, you can achieve significant improvements in public transport,
01:27particularly between Bangor and Carnarvon with a light rail option and a rapid coach service,
01:33which would cut some 90 minutes off the current north-south trip.
01:37And that's much more modest cost of something like £4.5 million to set up
01:42and a £2 million annual running cost.
01:45It's not as romantic as a railway, it's not as nice as a railway.
01:48We all like to travel by train, but there are real trade-offs that we need to face,
01:53and it needs to be an air of reality in this debate.
01:55Janet Finch Saunders's contribution was a classic of its type.
01:58It said very little and wanted to keep all options open,
02:00while sounding as if she supported all of them.
02:02South-east Wales will receive five new stations near Cardiff and Newport,
02:06while north-east Wales will see improved links near Wrexham.
02:11West Wales, as we've heard already from Sian, gets nothing.
02:16So it's the same old story.
02:18Wales gets little, West Wales gets less,
02:23and Labour are ignoring, letting down and holding back the people
02:28that I represent in south-west Wales, in Carmarthonshire, Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion.
02:34The source required is enormous.
02:37Heavy rail solutions require significant...
02:40Yes, of course.
02:41First of all, you mentioned the North Wales Metro,
02:44but there's nothing in do with our myrionydd for the North Wales Metro
02:47that doesn't benefit the communities I represent.
02:49And you mentioned the new trains that are coming online,
02:52but you've cut trains on the Cambrian line,
02:55so there's no new trains for us there.
02:57But when you say it's an enormous resource, and it will cost,
03:01last week we heard Mark Drakeford, the Finance Minister,
03:05say that the government asked for money from the spending review and they got it.
03:10Why didn't he ask for money to build on the plans that have been put forward here
03:14in order to develop the proposals for the Afonwen Bangor and for the Aberystwyth Cymaddon line?
03:19I'll just provide a backdrop to the comprehensive spending review.
03:26That provides spending for a three-year period.
03:29Three-year period develops and delivers some infrastructure,
03:32but if you're looking at long-term programs,
03:35then it's delivery money that you need,
03:36which was provided in the comprehensive spending review.

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