- 2 days ago
On "Forbes Newsroom," staff writer Chloe Sorvino discussed how ICE workplace raids are impacting the agriculture industry.
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00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now
00:07is my Forbes colleague, Chloe Sorvino, a staff writer here who covers the food industry.
00:12Chloe, thanks so much for joining me.
00:14Thanks for having me. Let's get into it.
00:17Immigration was a top issue for Americans going into the 2024 election, and more voters thought
00:23that President Trump would be better equipped at handling the issue than Vice President Kamala
00:27Harris. And in the second term, we have really seen the Trump administration's hardline stance
00:32on both immigration and border security. Ice raids and deportations have been the cause of protests
00:38cropping up recently throughout the country, starting in Los Angeles. And you're writing
00:42and reporting about how exactly these deportations and Trump's policies when it comes to immigration
00:47is impacting the food industry. So talk to us about it.
00:51Yeah, so in early June, as a lot of these enforcements and deportations and raids were happening,
00:59especially in California and in Los Angeles, which have made big headlines, they were also
01:06going into the heart of America's agricultural center. So much of our produce is from the Central
01:18Valley in California. And early in this month, there were dozens of workers taken from their
01:23posts and fields and in packing houses across the San Joaquin Valley, all the way up to the coasts.
01:29And it wasn't just in California. This was very widespread. Dozens were taken from small meat
01:34packing plants in the Midwest. There was a dairy in New Mexico that also faced many deportations and
01:42workers just being taken from the job. And it really sounded major alarms because
01:49immigrants fuel America's agriculture industry. They're how we get food on the table. And without
01:56them, there will be major halts and stoppages and shortages that we will see on grocery store shelves
02:02and otherwise. And you really raised this alarm in one of your recent newsletters. This is what you
02:08wrote. This is a dangerous game that's being played, the impacts of which will ricochet across
02:13the food industry. I mean, how soon are we going to see those impacts and what exactly are they?
02:19Yeah, I mean, if we can't get produce out of these fields or apples out of these orchards or,
02:25you know, salads out of the Salinas Valley in Northern California, I mean, they will rot in the
02:30fields. They will not get to where they need to go. And I think it's important to say that,
02:35you know, immigrants are powering this industry. But these are also jobs that if immigrants weren't
02:40filling them, they would not be filled. Most employers in farms and major agricultural operations
02:45talk about how America just does not have the employment pipeline for these types of jobs.
02:52They are good jobs. They are skilled jobs. It is not unskilled work. But because the food industry
02:57and agriculture industries are so dangerous, and these workers are on the front lines of that,
03:02that Americans have just simply not been filling these jobs. And there's been a labor shortage for
03:07years, actually, in the farming industries. And immigrants have been, you know, to the benefit of
03:14us all have been filling these posts and doing the hard work and continuing to work when temperatures
03:21are hitting 100 degrees plus and extreme weather and smog and smoke and pollution are making it impossible
03:28to do their work. They still are getting food on tables. And targeting this industry will only
03:34create massive halts and shortages and stopgaps.
03:38I'm curious what you make of this argument. I saw this post from NBC Latino that said this,
03:43quote, the president of a meatpacking plant said there's no playbook on how to move forward after
03:4876 workers at Glen Valley Foods in Omaha were arrested. Do you think that there's an element here,
03:53and I've seen this argument play out from Republicans and other critics, where the agriculture industry is
03:59taking advantage of these undocumented workers, and they're exploiting them, they're not willing
04:03to pay them a fair wage. And instead, they should be paying Americans and paying a fair wage there.
04:09What do you make of that argument?
04:13It's a bit, it's interesting, because it's a bit, there's some things that are very true about it. And
04:18there's some things I think that are not very true about it, right? Because like taking a step back,
04:21food is both too expensive and too cheap. These businesses, the one of their biggest costs,
04:28especially in when you talk about meatpacking plants, for example, like their biggest cost
04:31is actually labor, right? And then otherwise, it's like the chicken that they're purchasing to be
04:37able to slaughter. And so labor is such an expensive cost. And they've done a lot of like really
04:42controversial things over decades to keep those wages down as much as possible. So that's like not
04:49really like having anything to do with immigration. It just happens to be that immigrants and refugees
04:54and people who are for the first time in this country looking for work, those are some of the
04:58only jobs that are open. And it's where they're finding work. Because again, there's been this labor
05:02shortage. And it's been impossible for many food processors to actually have plants running at full
05:08capacity right now. And that's been for years. And so while yes, it should, these jobs should be higher
05:16paying and full stop, like all workers in the food industry who are so responsible for putting food on
05:22our table are being exploited and very much are working dangerous jobs and getting paid very minimal
05:28amounts to do that. And like putting their bodies in harm's way to do that, as they're speeding up lines
05:34and exploiting further, you know, that really has nothing to do with the immigration. And I don't, it would
05:41take a lot more than just, you know, you know, upping prices. I mean, some of these jobs are
05:46actually quite competitive in terms of actually what they're getting paid, all considered. And
05:50well, I think you have different, you know, levels of that and depending on the different sectors
05:54between meat or, you know, if there's salad in the field or what have you. But at the end of the day,
06:01these immigrants deserve to get paid way more than they do too. And I know with that example of that
06:07Omaha processing plant, they were actually targeted because they were involved in a voluntary
06:11program with the agriculture department that, you know, they were reporting how many immigrants
06:17they had. And that's why it ended up like turning back on them and flipping, flipping the whole thing
06:22around. And that's happened at meatpacking plants over the years, many times actually. So that's not
06:27exactly new. But what is important about this is that we need to be highlighting how actually the folks
06:34who are waking these, making us able to eat as it's getting harder and harder to do that. Like
06:40they need to be getting paid way better and immigration or not. But immigrants are never
06:46going to be out of our food system. We will never be able to produce the amount of food we can in
06:50America that we need and also how much we export without immigrant hands touching it somewhere along
06:56the way. And that's a really interesting point because DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said,
07:02those who think we can ignore these sanctuary cities and ignore laws so that we can keep
07:06somebody in a job is absolutely ridiculous. That's not what America is about. We have a
07:10workforce and a generation of people here in the United States that have been cheated out of jobs
07:14because of illegal immigrants that have come to this country. You think when it comes to the
07:18agriculture industry in particular, the food industry really at large, that argument doesn't
07:24really make sense because what you're saying and from your reporting without immigrants,
07:29those jobs won't be filled. Those gaps simply won't be filled.
07:33Talk to any employer, any big plant manager in the food industry from meatpacking to apple
07:38processing to salad to corn, soybeans at all. I mean, we these are jobs that they would love them
07:45to be filled locally, but they can't. They simply can't. And that's been a problem for years. And it's
07:51actually only been getting worse. Like these immigrants are filling jobs that no one else will fill.
07:55Um, and so I think we really need to, you know, uphold that and lionize that and give them the
08:02respect they deserve for doing things that no one else really wants to be doing again, because it's
08:06a very dangerous jobs. These are caustic chemicals they're working with. These are harsh conditions.
08:11These are, you know, uh, serious environmental extreme weather that they have to deal with on a daily
08:18basis. Um, and so, you know, it really can't be, it shouldn't be taken lightly. And on top of that,
08:24I mean, just for decades and decades, generations and generations, immigrants have a history of being
08:32the backbone of the agriculture industry. And it's simply just, it's not the case that they're taking
08:39jobs from people that want them. There are lots of jobs open at almost any of these plants.
08:44And so last week and this month and throughout president Trump's second term, we see dozens
08:50of immigrants being swept up in these ice raids at different plants and farms. And it seems like
08:56someone got into president Trump's ear. I believe it was farmers, according to him. And as we know,
09:01president Trump got his start himself in the hotel industry. And it seemed like he was going to lay out
09:07some exceptions. This is what he posted on truth social last week. Our great farmers and people in
09:12the hotel and leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is
09:17taking very good longtime workers away from them with the, with those jobs being almost impossible
09:22to replace. In many cases, the criminals allowed into our country by the very stupid Biden open borders
09:28policy are applying for those jobs. This is not good. We must protect our farmers, but get the
09:33criminals out of the USA. Changes are coming. And the reporting from this week now paints a very
09:38different picture because last week there was a 180 on, um, president Trump's deportation policies
09:44that they were going to curb, um, deportations and raids at farms, restaurants, and hotels.
09:49This week DHS is walking that back as reversing course. What do you make of this really ricocheting
09:56guidance when it comes to deporting people on farms, people in hotel businesses, people in ag,
10:02the ag industry in general? What I make of it is that these immigrants are doing the work that no
10:09one wants to be doing. And at the same time, this become a political football where our food system
10:15is what's on the line, food insecurity and the insecure future that we've been put on because of
10:21these policies ricocheting and going back and forth and causing a complete chaos for something that
10:28is one of the oldest industries in America, if not the oldest in the world, right? Well, one of anyway,
10:34um, you know, I think it's, it's important that I, I'd, I'd love to see farming and food be excluded
10:46because at the end of the day, food is political. It always will be. But I also think you saw in that,
10:53that Trump was getting scared, right? Because actually some of my reporting, um, has some very
10:58interesting kind of political connotations for this food prices, um, and particularly meat prices
11:03have been this interesting kind of indicator over the years where if an incumbent tries to, you know,
11:11go up for office again from presidents or a congressional party or what have you. And if,
11:15if meat prices have increased more than in their, the prior term, they will not, they have never in
11:22American history come back into office because they get voted out because food prices are such,
11:27uh, important thing for voters. And at the end of the day, these immigration policies,
11:33these raids, these ripping families apart from each other. I mean, that is what unfortunately
11:40people are, if they haven't felt it already, they will feel that in their pocketbooks when they go to
11:45grocery stores and it's only going to be the start of that. And I think that political fact was in
11:52your book, raw deal, which is a great read. So first plugging your book there, raw deal,
11:57everyone read it. But second in that book, it really shows how if one link in the food industry
12:04chain falters or breaks, I mean, the whole thing comes really crashing down. And I feel really lucky
12:09because I have talked to our colleagues in money and politics. I've talked to them in healthcare,
12:15in tech. Now I'm talking to you in the food industry. And when you're looking at president Trump's
12:20policies, a lot of things that come up are the unintended consequences of them. If X happens,
12:26Y somewhere else in a different industry happens, what do you think are some of the unintended
12:31consequences when it relates to food and ag coming from president Trump's really tough immigration
12:37policies? Yeah. I mean, to start, we are going to see prices going up. We are going to see less
12:46variability, less variety in stores, especially if this continues. You're going to see some cuts of
12:52meat. For example, if this immigration rating continues, especially in the Midwest and in
12:57America's heartland, I mean, we will see certain cuts of meat simply not being available. It's about
13:03to be, it's burger season. It's summer, right? Like, could we not be having enough grilling? If very,
13:08at the very least, meat prices are going to be increasing. And so will everything else. And we've
13:14already been, you know, facing years of food prices of increasing and, and different surges
13:18and commodities that historically were quite low, raising more than, you know, they had for years
13:24and years. And it's a time when Americans are really hurting. And I think that's getting lost in
13:30this entire equation here. Aside from that, I think you're also seeing, you know, food just in
13:38general being put on the front lines of this war in a way that we shouldn't be messing with food.
13:44We already have a huge food insecurity problem in this country. We have so many millions and
13:49millions of children who don't get enough food to eat. Now you're gonna be having more waste,
13:55right? You're going to be having, you know, plants not able to make as much production as they typically
14:02could because of this labor shortage getting worse and worse. And you're going to be seeing, you know,
14:08just the kind of the vulnerability of our food system and the fragility there, you know, really
14:14taking hold more than potentially even in the pandemic. Because if you recall the pandemic,
14:20it was the workers not showing up to the lines because they were so scared because there wasn't
14:26PPE in place and there wasn't protections in place. And so many people were getting sick because,
14:30you know, these plants became hotbeds of pandemic outbreak. And because of that, you know, that's
14:37when we saw so many shortages. That was very actually short, very, this is going to be
14:40having ramifications for generations to come because this is how our agriculture industry works,
14:47like full stop. And it's not just going to be two months of some workers not showing up.
14:53This will be not just this round of workers who are getting deported, but this will create a hole
14:58in generations of future, you know, farm and food, simply.
15:05And I said at the top of this conversation, immigration was one of those top issues facing voters in 2024.
15:11The other main one was the economy. And it's interesting to see how President Trump's stance
15:17and policies on immigration can really affect the economy, as you're saying. But we know that
15:23produce and meat, they have a shelf life. So how soon will the everyday Americans start feeling the
15:28impacts of these deportations?
15:30With the reversal from this past week, with the Trump administration saying, no, they will continue
15:38to target agriculture, farms, food processors, restaurants. I mean, that will come, I think,
15:44very significantly because you also have to think about the time we are in right now. June
15:50to the next few months, this whole summer, September, October, November, like this is going to be out to be
15:56prime harvest season for probably the vast majority of almost everything America produces, right? And so
16:03they are taking out critical workers from the supply, just as they're about to have to harvest,
16:09which means like they're not going to be able to fill those roles, they already haven't been able to fill
16:13all the roles. And so they're not going to be able to fully harvest. And so, you know, there's a lot of
16:20food, right, that's in grocery stores, and it takes a while to, you know, actually make it to us.
16:27You've been covering food for a while now. And I'm curious, what are your sources saying about this?
16:33I mean, how dangerous is this for their businesses?
16:39This is so critical for their businesses. Business owners are freaking out. And our industry,
16:47our agricultural supply chain has been erected over these past five decades or so to be as big as
16:54possible to have as few kind of corporations at the top as possible. But that means that when,
17:00you know, one or two of these businesses are targeted, it actually has a major impact quite
17:05quickly. And so I think that's also what we should need to be keeping in mind because the scale here and
17:10like the multitudes that just one raid hits is massive. And it's it's it's really hard to to
17:20overstate that. And what do they want to see as this fix here? Would they want to get these migrants
17:28fast track to be citizens or permanent green card holders or perhaps have working visas? I mean,
17:34what do they think the solution should be?
17:36I mean, I think you have a lot of different thoughts on a lot of different, you know,
17:42in regions of farming in this country, obviously. But at the end of the day,
17:46immigrants fuel the agricultural industry. And it's how we get food on our plates across the country
17:54and around the world, to be honest. And so they want to pass the citizenship. They want a place where
18:00they can have immigrants protected and not scared to just show up for a shift. It's really as simple
18:09as that. Agriculture has been a place where immigrants have found refuge for generations
18:14and generations. And just because one administration comes in and says they're going to, you know,
18:20target immigrants across the board, you know, I think we're going to see some leeway happening just
18:28because the ramifications are too great. And so we saw the weekend backtrack. It's now gone
18:35on different. But we know Trump's a good negotiator and he is always negotiating. So
18:40I'm sure we have not seen the last of this. Well, Chloe, I appreciate your reporting. I always
18:46appreciate our conversations. Thank you so much for joining me. And I hope to talk about developments
18:51as they come in. Sounds great. Me too. We'll stay on it.
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