Over nearly 50 years, Donald Trump expanded his father’s real-estate empire into a $2.5 billion fortune. Then, in less than five years, he created a crypto kingdom worth even more. Forbes senior editor Dan Alexander joined "Forbes Newsroom" to discuss.
Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2025/06/12/crypto-now-accounts-for-most-of-donald-trumps-net-worth/
Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2025/06/12/crypto-now-accounts-for-most-of-donald-trumps-net-worth/
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00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now
00:07is my Forbes colleague, senior editor, Dan Alexander. Dan, thanks so much for joining me.
00:12Sure thing. Thanks, Brittany.
00:13You have some new reporting on the Trump family's ever-evolving relationship when it comes to
00:18cryptocurrency. Because from term one to term two, we saw President Trump go from bearish to
00:23bullish when it comes to crypto. In his first term, President Trump said that cryptocurrencies
00:27aren't real money and that their, quote, value is highly volatile and based on thin air.
00:33Then term two, we see Trump say that he's going to be the country's first crypto president.
00:38We also saw his sons, Don Jr. and Eric Trump, speak at a Bitcoin conference in Vegas just last month.
00:43So to start off the conversation, can you talk to us about the family's feelings regarding crypto
00:48and their ventures in the industry? Well, the family's feelings right now toward crypto are a
00:53lot of excitement, but it's not a big secret why it's mine. She realized it can make a lot
01:00of money. And if you look at the various ventures that he launched, you know, they started out
01:07kind of small, something that makes it about $7 billion or something like that, and then grow
01:12over time. And now that you have, you know, where he's making hundreds of millions of dollars,
01:16dollars, making multi-billion dollar bets on crypto. So he's really gone all in. And it just
01:24seems to be that he's looked at it and said, hey, a real estate business isn't doing too well.
01:29This is making a ton of money. We jump on it. So let's dive into that because you're saying
01:34that President Trump, the Trump family's all in publicly. Privately, you're reporting that based
01:41on a letter sent to a New York judge last month, there might be a different story behind the scenes.
01:46What can you tell us about that? That's right. So in this letter,
01:51a court appointed moderator who's watching over the finances of Donald Trump related to his fraud
01:56trial, that's where they came out of. She said that she was told that the Trump family had sold a
02:04stake in the company through which it has an agreement with World Liberty Financial. World Liberty
02:09Financial is one of Trump's major crypto metrics. And the fact that they sold this stake hasn't been
02:15publicized at all, first reported. And it goes against this idea that the Trumps truly believe
02:22in crypto and aren't merely looking for a quick way to make money. Now, that's the fear that crypto
02:29people will have is, you know, is he just creating these ventures to get everybody excited? And then
02:35he's going to dump his interest in them. It's in his interest to make it look like he's fully committed.
02:41And so that sale raises some questions about, well, is he fully committed or is he just trying to make
02:48a quick buck? And you can see that by him taking some chips off the table? I mean, what are the
02:54answers to some of those questions? Did they respond? Did World Liberty Financial respond? Did
02:59the White House respond? Because, I mean, you've got a lot of questions here of is he really fully
03:05committed or, you know, is he just trying to make a quick buck? Now, unsurprisingly, although they want
03:12to talk about crypto every chance that they can, they do not want to talk about this deal. And that
03:16makes sense because if it gets out that they've that they're selling part of their interests in
03:22crypto ventures, it makes them look less committed. That could decrease the value of some of the coins
03:27that they're trying to sell sort of thing. So, no, they don't want to talk about this. They haven't
03:31talked about this. And over time, we'll see how committed they fully are. I mean, you know,
03:37the question is, in the crypto industry, really, how committed is anyone? I mean, a lot of people
03:43are looking at this as, hey, I can make a few bucks, and maybe I'll get out in a year, five years,
03:4810 years, whatever. But in 50 years, am I still going to be invested? You know, in 50 years,
03:54is the Trump family still going to be invested? In 20 years, is Donald Trump still going to be
03:59invested in crypto? Or will he have cash out? Yeah, those are questions that we're only going to know
04:04the answer to by looking at their actions. And this is the first indicator, the first action
04:09of them actually selling something in the crypto space. We'll see if it's a sign of things to come.
04:14And you're the first person to report this. So read the tea leaves here, because you've been
04:18reporting on President Trump and his business dealings and his finances for years now. What
04:24does this indicate about how they view crypto? Because publicly, they're saying one thing privately,
04:28they're doing another. What does this say to you?
04:31Well, if you look at, you know, Donald Trump's history in business, he has a long history,
04:37telling everybody that he's super committed to an idea, but then actually kind of not being
04:43fully committed. So you saw that in Atlantic City, for instance, you know, hey, I'm all in
04:48Atlantic City, I'm doing all of these massive bets, but then over time, you know, winds down
04:52and stake and ends up walking away and saying basically, hey, you know, I'm smart because I
04:57made out all right while the rest of you lost a lot of money. If you look at his licensing deals,
05:02you know, for years, he's said, oh, this is a Trump property. That's a Trump property. Well,
05:07kind of. Somebody paid for him to put his name on those deals, but he wasn't actually developing
05:11them. So he didn't really have the skin in the game that it looked like he did because of the
05:16names of the properties. This is just the latest iteration of that. Donald Trump's a master salesman.
05:21Crypto is all about salesmanship. He has figured out, hey, I can say I'm really,
05:26really committed to this industry. And even if I just said a minute ago that I thought that it was
05:31all based on thin air and didn't buy any of it, people will believe me. And I can use that belief
05:36to make hundreds of millions, perhaps even billions of dollars. That's where we are right now.
05:41And you're reporting that his crypto empire actually makes up the bulk of his net worth.
05:46So if it shows that he's not as all in on crypto as he says he is, is that going to impact his bottom
05:53line? Well, it certainly could. And again, the question is whether we see more transactions
05:59and what the market response is to those transactions. So he's made, you know, about a
06:06billion dollars on crypto. And then but the other thing that's really important is that he just took
06:13his social media company, Trump Media and Technology Group, which doesn't really have much of a business.
06:18I mean, true social brings in about four million dollars of revenue a year, but is valued at 5.7
06:23billion by public investors. He just took that business and said, we're going to raise a ton of
06:28money, roughly two, two and a half billion dollars. And we're going to buy a bunch of Bitcoin with that
06:32money. So all of a sudden he took this tiny little social media business that's being traded really as
06:37a meme stock. People just like the idea of it. And he's trying to add a real asset to it, which is
06:43a stockpile of Bitcoin. So suddenly that now is a crypto business, too. You add in the billion
06:48dollars that he's made from his new ventures, plus this transformation of that asset, and you get
06:53you about 3.3 billion dollars of crypto assets for a guy who's worth about five and a half billion
06:58dollars. So certainly he is heavily invested. Now, will he stay heavily invested? Will he pivot that
07:04social media term Bitcoin company once again? We'll see.
07:08I mean, money really talks, Dan. And when you're looking at that, that's just a huge
07:13fraction of his net worth. 3.3 billion dollars of his 5.5 billion dollar fortune is because and thanks
07:21to his crypto ventures. So when you're thinking about someone who just less than a decade ago said,
07:28hey, crypto is essentially just based off of thin air. It's not real. He essentially called it a scam.
07:34Now he's making billions of dollars from it. Is there a conflict of interest here? Is
07:38there any indication that his crypto policies, his more enthusiastic embrace of crypto as president
07:44is because he now has a real financial stake in the industry?
07:48Well, it's maybe the most obvious conflict of interest that you can find. I mean, you know,
07:54look, crypto, a lot of the way that it moves is based on perception. And so people perceive the
08:01president as being favorable toward the crypto industry. That alone is worth a lot of money. But then
08:06there are also tangible actions that the president can take. So in the case of Donald Trump, you know,
08:11he appoints a business person who's pro crypto to leave the SEC. You know, he creates a Bitcoin
08:17reserve or announces that he's going to create a Bitcoin reserve. He on one of his first days in
08:22office submits an order saying that his administration needs to be pro crypto and everybody's got to get
08:28outboard. The SEC, of which he's just appointed this favorable head, has dropped more than a half
08:35dozen prominent lawsuits against crypto firms. All of that is tangible stuff that adds on the
08:41perceptive thing of, hey, the president likes crypto. And all of that sort of builds on the crypto
08:48industry, builds on the excitement. And the more excitement there is, the more buzz that there is,
08:53the more the players in the industry are going to make. Right now, Donald Trump has very quickly
08:57made himself a significant player in the industry. And so he stands to benefit from that.
09:02So he's a big player in the crypto industry, but he got his start in real estate. How's that going for
09:08him now? I mean, when you look at his net worth, what does his real estate empire look like in that?
09:13Well, real estate, you know, that business really flatlined several years ago. You know, he hasn't
09:21built anything new. He's put his name on some properties. He's had his name taken off of a lot
09:27of other properties. You know, he has some debt problems there. 40 Wall Street, one of the most
09:33important buildings is underwater. 555 California Street, which has been one of the most profitable
09:38properties in his portfolio, took on a massive amount of debt right after he left office. And
09:44that has financial issues. So that stuff is sort of flatline right at about $2 billion. And really,
09:50if you rewind, you know, a couple of years ago, the prospects for growth of that business
09:56were very, very unimpressive. So if you were looking to buy like a stock of Donald Trump's empire,
10:05you would have said, okay, this is clearly not a growth company. I mean, these assets are not well
10:10positioned. That's heavily in office. You're just not allowed to be too excited about there. But then
10:15at a left field, he gets into crypto and voila, there's hundreds of millions, billions of dollars
10:20make there. And that's what he's done. And yeah, there's, as you said, he's a leader in this space,
10:27in the crypto space. Now there's billions of dollars to be made. And he's made 3.3 billion of them.
10:33And Forbes is estimating. What specifically are you looking out for next when it comes to Trump
10:37being this player in crypto? Well, it seems like every month they announce a new crypto
10:43venture. So we'll be looking to see what are those new announcements. And then secondly,
10:48we'll be looking to see, okay, what happens with the older announcement? So sure, they can always put
10:53some shiny new things out there. But do they continue to sell interests in their previous horns?
10:59And so they continue to cash out. You know, the amount of cash that he's getting from these
11:03ventures is significant and important for him. Donald Trump just a year ago was cash strapped.
11:08You know, he had less cash in his bank account than he owed New York State in a judgment based
11:16on a fraud suit. So now all of a sudden, he's well past that hurdle. And but the more cash you have,
11:23the better. And he's gotten cash in a lot of different ways over the course of his career,
11:28initially from his father, later from The Apprentice, massive amounts of cash flowing into
11:32his business that he used to deploy in real estate assets. And now from crypto, we'll see if he takes a
11:38similar note there and uses that crypto cash to plow into more of his true love, which is beautiful
11:44real estate. I mean, Dan, this is just astounding, these numbers. I want to repeat it again.
11:49I know you and I both said it, but $3.3 billion of his total $5.5 billion fortune is because of
11:57crypto. And crypto is really like the Wild West at this point. And you've talked about the obvious
12:02conflicts of interest here. I mean, is anyone is he going to see any consequences here? Can Congress
12:07can lawmakers put any guardrails up for him? I mean, what does that really look like?
12:12The only, you know, the only consequence that he's going to face is potentially a public
12:20embarrassment. So what Congress can do is they can, you know, weasel in there and get information
12:26about his ventures and disclose that to the public. You saw that in his first administration,
12:31right, as he was leaving their leases, tax returns. And, you know, we got a lot of information
12:36about the hotel in Washington, D.C. So there'll be that. But legally, you know, the criminal
12:43conflicts of interest law does not apply to the president of the United States. So although
12:48he is barreling for clear conflicts of interest that would be criminal if anybody else in the
12:54executive branch, other than the vice president, did what he's doing, he is OK there legally. He's
13:01not going to face consequences. The question is whether the American people will say, wait a
13:05second. You know, our president should be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard.
13:11And so far, you know, although he's gotten a lot of heat for, you know, various business
13:17ventures that he's done and controversies that have sprung from them, he's maintained enough
13:22support from the people to be able to, you know, retain power and win the third time they ran for
13:28office and come back to the White House. So we'll see if that embarrassment has any actual
13:33political effect or if it's already basically baked in.
13:38Dan, per usual, I always appreciate your reporting and our conversations. Thanks for coming on.
13:44Sure thing. Thanks, Brittany.