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  • 12/06/2025

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00:00Tonight, has Trump declared war by Twitter?
00:05Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.
00:12The dangers of a devastating conflict.
00:16There's no small mistake made with a nuclear weapon.
00:19Tens of millions of innocent civilians will be killed.
00:24How they could pull back from the brink.
00:30This is a man who calculates very carefully and has concluded, it seems,
00:37that threats to obliterate him are simply a fake.
00:40And the Koreans who found safety in the UK.
00:44When I saw my children's smiling face, in here, I touched in here.
00:51Good evening and welcome to the Tonight programme.
00:54The United States and North Korea are engaged in an increasingly aggressive war of words.
01:00With a terrifying threat of nuclear weapons thrown into the mix.
01:04It's a nightmare scenario many of us thought belonged to the past.
01:07But with missile tests and angry rhetoric, it's become all too real.
01:13North Korea has now accused the US of declaring war.
01:16And some fear a miscalculation could lead to a conflict which Britain is drawn into.
01:21So what's going on in Korea and how do we avoid the unimaginable?
01:26A couple of key things separate the United States from North Korea.
01:51There's 6,000 miles of Pacific Ocean for one.
01:56Politics is another.
01:58The US is the world's most powerful democracy.
02:01While North Korea is a totalitarian dictatorship with a unique personality cult.
02:07But the two countries possibly have one thing in common.
02:12Peculiarly unpredictable and undoubtedly controversial leaders.
02:17The United States has great strength and patience.
02:23But if it is forced to defend itself for its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea.
02:32Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.
02:38The worst thing you can do in diplomacy in a possible military confrontation is sort of poke someone in the chest rhetorically and say,
02:47All right, come back at me if you're tough enough.
02:51But that appears to be exactly what President Trump is doing.
02:56On Sunday, he tweeted that he thought the North Korean regime wouldn't be around much longer.
03:04Unsurprisingly, that didn't go down well with the North Korean foreign minister.
03:08It also prompted the country's supreme leader, Kim Jong-un, to describe President Trump as a mentally deranged dotard,
03:24saying that he would tame him with fire.
03:26And it's this ratcheting of tension coupled with the fear that North Korea may now have the capability of firing a nuclear missile at the United States that has a lot of people seriously concerned.
03:40This is pretty bad. I mean, how do you measure these things?
03:46But a situation which plausibly might tip over into regional conflict, possibly involving nuclear weapons.
03:54We haven't had a situation this bad for quite some time.
03:56If the balloon does go up, I think it is likely that President Trump will be rearing around all his close allies asking for support.
04:07And that is very likely to include us, the UK.
04:11And Britain has been here before, in the war which sowed the seeds of today's standoff.
04:18The sea fires and fireflies of the aircraft carrier HMS Triumph provided Britain's earliest contribution to the United Nations forces operating against the North Korea.
04:27In 1950, communist North Korea invaded the South in what has been described as the first conflict of the Cold War,
04:36with Russia and China backing the North
04:38and the U.S. with its allies supporting the South.
04:43More than 100,000 British troops were sent to fight.
04:49Edgar, hi, pleased to meet you.
04:51Edgar Green, now 86, was one of them.
04:55Did you know what you were getting into? Did you know what to expect?
04:58No. Even officers didn't even know Korea. Where was Korea, they said.
05:02You had to be 19 to go to Korea, and I was 19 and four months.
05:08Were you scared?
05:09Yeah, I was very concerned, because you didn't know what you was in for.
05:15Edgar's regiment landed at the bottom of the Korean peninsula.
05:19Under heavy fire, they began to push the North Koreans back.
05:23My very first good friend, he got killed on September the 8th out there.
05:30But what upset some men, it wasn't just a war, it was seeing the women carrying their children coming back.
05:39And one of it was upsetting, which was a mother with her two children.
05:43She'd been killed, and there's the two children clinging to her in a ditch.
05:49Really upsetting.
05:50The US-led advance forced the North Koreans to the Chinese border, drawing China into the conflict.
05:59It took three years of fierce fighting before a ceasefire was declared.
06:04We have to remember that there was a massive loss of life in what is now North Korea, of the population of about 10 million.
06:14Some estimates say 25%, nearly 2 million, died.
06:17In South Korea, the population was larger, but still a million people died, and that was Koreans.
06:2330,000 US military died, and say 1,000 British soldiers died.
06:28A North-South border was agreed.
06:32Today, it's officially known as the Demilitarized Zone, or DMZ, but it's one of the most heavily armed areas on the planet.
06:41And technically, the two countries are still at war.
06:46So, what do we need to know about North Korea?
06:50Well, it's home to 25 million people, boasts the fourth largest army in the world,
06:56and earlier this month, claimed to have successfully tested its first hydrogen bomb.
07:03It is deeply nationalistic, deeply patriotic, very, very proud of being Korean,
07:08to the point almost of being racist, rather than looking down on other countries, other cultures, including other Asian cultures.
07:15North Korea's supreme leader is 33-year-old Kim Jong-un.
07:20He's the most recent dictator in the Kim family dynasty, which goes back 70 years to the birth of the two Koreas.
07:29Over the decades, its citizens have been taught to regard the Kims as almost godlike figures.
07:36Back in the 1990s, while his father, Kim Jong-il, presided over the starvation of millions in a great famine,
07:47the chosen son, Kim Jong-un, was being educated at a private school in Switzerland.
07:53He's reported not to have done well in exams, but was obsessed with basketball, computer games and cakes.
08:00The first time you go, it is a mind-blowing experience, because there is nowhere like it on the planet.
08:17And it basically sort of feels like it's held back in the 1950s, when it once became cut off.
08:22And, you know, everything is alien, the way people think people wear, the design, the architecture, the furniture, everything is alien.
08:32Colin made a film around a controversial basketball match,
08:36where retired U.S. professional Dennis Rodman was coaching the North Korean national side.
08:43Given the supreme leader's love of the game, Rodman and Kim Jong-un became good friends.
08:49As Dennis will tell you as well, you know, about Kim Jong-un, they're normal guys.
08:54When you're there, you don't feel scared of them, they're dead friendly, they want to be sociable.
08:58Just go back slightly.
09:00After a basketball match, we were told that Kim Jong-un was invited up to his ski lodge.
09:04The day after, we drove 200 miles up into the mountains.
09:07I mean, it's quite grotesque, but, you know, they put on these lavish banquets for us,
09:12you know, these 18-course banquets, and, you know, you're full after one course.
09:15I mean, it's grotesque, and obviously, I mean, that is what happens in a dictatorship, you know,
09:19the elite are, you know, loading it up, and unfortunately, the poor are, you know, are struggling.
09:26Bizarrely, as one of the few Westerners to have met Kim,
09:29Rodman has actually volunteered to help get the two leaders talking.
09:34This summer, he even gave Kim a copy of Trump's memoirs, The Art of the Deal.
09:40To date, his offer doesn't appear to have been taken up.
09:43Can you give me a sense of who Kim Jong-un is?
09:47Do you think he's sane?
09:48I've no reason to doubt it.
09:50Well, there's lots of reason to doubt it.
09:52Why?
09:52Well, because he's a small country who's picking a fight with China, America,
09:57and everyone else who's much more equipped to actually demolish him and annihilate his country.
10:02Firstly, let's not forget that so far, yes, he's doing that, but he's winning.
10:06This is a man who calculates very carefully, who's focused on a very narrow set of objectives,
10:12weighs all the options, and has concluded, it seems, that threats to obliterate him are simply a fake.
10:18It's a classic case of an underdog gaining the upper hand
10:22through being more willing than stronger partners to take risks and to confront.
10:26With North Korea, you're not just dealing with Kim.
10:30You're dealing with the North Korean leadership.
10:32It is a group of people who've gone through decades of standing versus the U.S.,
10:37standing versus South Korea, to an extent standing versus China.
10:41And that's what makes this even more dangerous, because the North Koreans are calculating.
10:45And if you put them into a corner where they calculate that a military response,
10:50a first strike, is one that they can risk, that's the area we've never been in before.
10:54In the past, the Kim dictators have been seen as figures of fun by some in the West,
11:00but few are laughing now.
11:04The regime spends a bigger percentage of its money on weapons
11:08than any other country on the planet.
11:11But despite spectacular public parades, behind the scenes, it's poverty-stricken.
11:17The country struggles to feed its population, with some 40% said to be undernourished.
11:25And, seen from space by night, it's in virtual darkness compared to its brightly lit neighbours.
11:33Over the past 20 years, it's believed nearly 30,000 people have managed to escape the country.
11:42Ji-yeon is one of them.
11:44She survived North Korea's four-year famine in the 1990s, when, she says, people were starving in the streets.
11:52We usually saw the starvation people outside, in train stations, in the market, in the streets, everywhere.
12:03We usually see dead bodies.
12:06That is normal life.
12:08Ji-yeon says, when her father died, she decided to escape the country, but was captured and sent to a labour camp.
12:16Ji-yeon says, when I went to the labour camp, we never were wearing the shoes.
12:23We were just only barefoot, but in North Korea, the pavement is not the same here.
12:30They were just unpaved, and unsure stones, glasses, and animal fish everywhere.
12:38So, when you stabbed glass, and it's bloody, but police, it never cared, we continued to work.
12:50Following years of brutal treatment, she managed to escape at the second attempt, eventually making it to the UK.
13:00When we now live in the UK, it's totally different.
13:04So, when I saw my children's smiling face, in here, I touched in here.
13:11So, first, I found my emotions.
13:13That is happiness.
13:15But North Korean people, they don't know what is happiness.
13:19It's thought the regime currently holds more than 100,000 political prisoners.
13:29In sharp contrast, South Korea is a democracy, with the third largest economy in the Far East.
13:35It has a population of 50 million, twice as many as the North.
13:40But its capital, Seoul, is less than 40 miles from the border,
13:45well within range of North Korean missiles and artillery.
13:50It's very difficult for what is close to a failed state to exist on the northern half of the Korean peninsula,
13:56alongside a massively richer, more successful, more popular, more engaged state on the southern half.
14:03As well as massive conventional forces, it's thought North Korea has around 1,000 missiles,
14:11including a number which might be able to hit mainland America.
14:15It also has an advanced nuclear weapons program.
14:21Six nuclear tests have been carried out in the last decade.
14:25And one, earlier this month, was its biggest yet.
14:29An H-bomb many times more powerful than the weapon dropped on Hiroshima at the end of the Second World War.
14:35We're not 100% sure how far the ballistic missiles can go when they're fully loaded with a nuclear warhead.
14:51We know how far they've been able to go when they've been loaded with a dummy.
14:56But I think it's prudent to assume that they can indeed reach parts of Europe and the west coast of the United States.
15:07Why do you think Kim Jong-un has acquired and developed these nuclear capabilities?
15:12North Korea feels extremely threatened by the United States, rightly or wrongly,
15:17and that they wish to deter any military effort against them by the United States.
15:21To do that, they feel they need nuclear weapons, nuclear weapons that they can first target or threaten American bases and American allies in the region.
15:31And if necessary, with that intercontinental ballistic missile, threaten the United States itself.
15:38But as the two countries go eyeball to eyeball, the real and present danger, say the experts, would be a miscalculation by either side.
15:48I think we're in the extraordinary position where both people within Washington and outside powers like China are now trying to contain both the North Korean regime.
15:58And they're trying to control, frankly, this unstable man who is in the White House.
16:04Mr. President, will you attack North Korea?
16:06While trying to contain Trump, you can say what you want to in private meetings, but do you publicly oppose him?
16:15Do you publicly say, look, we don't even trust our leader?
16:18And that's where the American leadership is caught in its dilemma.
16:24It may be that Trump is being more cautious in private, but it's his public pronouncements that still cause concern.
16:32North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States.
16:39They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.
16:47President Trump talked about responding with fire and fury.
16:50So either he has to back away from that or he has to make good.
16:54In making good, he could unleash the most horrendous war in Northeast Asia, and he runs enormous risks in that direction.
17:02There's no small mistake made with a nuclear weapon.
17:07Tens of millions in a big city of ordinary, innocent civilians will be killed.
17:12And the North Koreans aren't backing down in the face of Trump's tough talk.
17:18In the past four weeks, they've fired two test missiles over Japan, a close American ally.
17:25I've been speaking to Chris Broad, who lives in Japan, and posted this after being woken up by air raid sirens.
17:32I was just woken up a third time, this time by the television switching itself on to report about the missile news.
17:41I didn't even know TVs could switch themselves on in Japan like that in emergencies.
17:45Just after about 6 a.m. my smartphone went off with the earthquake alarm, and it's a horrible ear-splitting noise.
17:53It's really the worst way to wake up.
17:55But all smartphones in Japan have it.
17:56And then a few moments later, I heard an air raid siren.
18:00I panicked, because I'd never heard anything like it in Japan.
18:02And then I suddenly heard North Korea on the air raid siren, and I realized it was probably something to do with a missile.
18:11The ballistic missile traveled nearly 1,700 miles before falling into the Pacific Ocean.
18:19Two weeks later, the second flew for over 2,000 miles,
18:23meaning the American military base on the island of Guam is now within range.
18:29The U.S. has a defense pact with South Korea, and currently has about 25,000 troops stationed there.
18:37Throughout the summer, they've been deploying an anti-missile missile system
18:41in response to North Korean tests and threats.
18:46Some in the south think the U.S. missiles are increasing the tension
18:50and making them more vulnerable to attack, rather than less.
18:55But this former North Korean army captain, who defected and now lives in London,
19:00says he doesn't believe war is a real option for the supreme leader.
19:04Do you think that Kim Jong-un would actually launch a nuclear attack?
19:07The recent confrontation between Trump and Kim Jong-un means I think that North Korea
19:14will never give up its nuclear weapons.
19:17But I don't believe Kim Jong-un will actually risk using a nuclear weapon,
19:21because his aim is to survive, not to commit suicide.
19:27So if the supreme leader is all about survival,
19:30what are the potential options for the West?
19:33How do we solve a problem like Korea?
19:35Kim Jong-un, of course, knows that there are plenty of people
19:39who would like to assassinate him.
19:41And he's taken remarkable portion against that.
19:44Ring after ring of security, deep secrecy about his movements,
19:48the constant use of deep bunkers.
19:50He would be an extremely difficult target.
19:52I don't think any of the main parties want to see regime change in North Korea.
19:57The Chinese don't want to see a unified Korea.
20:00The Russians don't want to see a unified Korea,
20:02because that would result in whoever brought about that regime change
20:08having to deal with a massive problem of how to deal with 24 million impoverished North Koreans.
20:13That's quite something to say, because I think a lot of people
20:15do want to see regime change.
20:17They think the world would be a better place if he was replaced.
20:21Absolutely. But, of course, we've had other examples of regime change
20:25which have not worked out in the way that we'd hoped.
20:28Could even stricter economic sanctions than exist already
20:32curb North Korea's nuclear ambitions?
20:36President Trump wants the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping,
20:39to switch off oil supplies.
20:41But many fear that could trigger a humanitarian crisis.
20:46It's not rocket science to see that in a very poor country where the economy is still precarious
20:51and people are still worried about, can they get enough food to eat on a day-to-day basis,
20:56that if you have those conditions again, that you'd like to see famine again.
20:59Look, the only way forward is to take this to diplomacy.
21:05If North Korea carries out a military strike, it's suicide for the regime.
21:09If the U.S. carries out a military strike, it is at the very least a regional war
21:15drawing in South Korea, Japan, China, something we haven't seen since the 1950s.
21:21Do you think there are really any other long-term options to a nuclear-armed North Korea?
21:26Is that just something we're going to have to get used to living with?
21:28The problem is that I doubt that Kim Jong-un's nuclear ambitions will stop
21:34with the acquisition of a credible, deliverable nuclear warhead.
21:38He is likely to use that for blackmail, blackmail for South Korea, blackmail of the United States,
21:45quite possibly blackmail of other countries.
21:47Living with that kind of situation is just going to be too difficult, I think.
21:51War is rarely the answer, but human beings throughout history have tended to go to war
21:59when they've run out of imagination.
22:03And I do fear right now that we may be heading in that direction.
22:06It may not be this instant with North Korea, but it could be one further down the line.
22:14Albert Einstein and some of the other scientists who helped develop the first atomic bombs
22:18were horrified at the destruction the weapons caused.
22:22They created a lobby group and the doomsday clock as a reminder of how close to nuclear war the world could get.
22:31The clock is still ticking.
22:34If it reaches midnight, the group says, it would be catastrophic for the planet.
22:39And how many minutes to midnight is it right now?
22:42It is two and a half minutes to midnight, which is the closest it's been since 1953.
22:50Our science and security board, which sets the clock, decided the world situation was almost as dangerous
22:57as it was right at the height of the Cold War, when nuclear war was considered very likely.
23:03How important is the dynamic, do you think, between President Trump and Kim Jong-un in the whole of this?
23:10All of this talking tough on TV and everything is no more than a puppet show.
23:17But it's dangerous in that one or the other side could react emotionally.
23:22It just extends a sense of crisis.
23:26And during that sense of crisis with forces on alert, mistakes can be made.
23:33So I would hope the puppet show would close soon.
23:38This evening, a new report from the Royal United Services Institute says that war with North Korea is now a real possibility
23:47and that the U.S. could make the first strike followed by an invasion.
23:53And with the doomsday clock so close to midnight, the security think tank is urging Britain to help steer the U.S. away from conflict.
24:03If you'd like more information about tonight's programme, just visit our website at itv.com slash tonight.
24:11Until next time, good evening and thanks for watching.
24:14The net titans on the crow, but will he be stopped in time?
24:22Safe house, the season finale tonight at nine here on ITV.
24:25Tomorrow, Adam gets a shock at unsolicited pictures of his girlfriend online.
24:30Time to fight back and cold feet, also at nine.
24:33Next, though, we head back to Emmerdale.
24:35Time to fight back and cold feet, also at the end of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the day of the