The Yorkshire Post's rugby league writer, James O’Brien, looks back on a memorable, nerve-wracking day at Wembley for Hull KR as they leave it late to edge out Warrington Wolves and lift the Challenge Cup trophy -ending their 40-year wait for a major trophy ...
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00:00Hello and welcome to the latest Yorkshire Post Rugby League podcast.
00:11This week we're joined, as always actually, every week by James O'Brien,
00:16the Yorkshire Post's highly regarded and esteemed Rugby League correspondent.
00:20James spent the weekend away down in London watching the Challenge Cup final
00:25between Hawkeye Art and Warrington Wolves.
00:27It was a bit of a thriller, it was a bit of a nail-biting occasion, James.
00:32But ultimately, they got over the line.
00:35First major trophy for 40 years, but they left it late.
00:41Wasn't easy, was it?
00:44Would it be a criticism or too harsh a criticism to say they perhaps made a bit of hard work of it, maybe?
00:50I think they're always going to keep their long-suffering fans sweating for a while.
00:57They were never going to be straightforward.
00:59And it just turned out like that.
01:01The weather didn't help.
01:02Played right into Mark Snead's hands.
01:04His kicking game was near faultless.
01:07I think one kick went dead, but apart from that, they're all on the mark.
01:11But having said that at the same time,
01:14Warrington may be a bit too reliant on his kicking game.
01:17When you score one try from a deflected kick and don't really create that many openings,
01:22were they too reliant on his kicking game?
01:26They're lost in the end, so you can ask that question, can't you?
01:29If that ball had gone, if Tyrone Mane's kick would have gone dead with a couple of minutes to go,
01:35we won't be talking about that.
01:36So, yeah, it was just one of those.
01:39I think Warrington probably, throughout the competition,
01:43they saved the best for the Challenge Cup.
01:46Probably one of their better performances of the year,
01:48and you'd probably say it was one of Hulky R's worst,
01:50if not the worst,
01:52in terms of errors and threat.
01:56They didn't really create.
01:58You could count on one hand how many clear-cut openings they created
02:02and have a few fingers left with that kind of game, really.
02:05Played in the middle of third, very attritional in horrendous conditions.
02:09The Evans opened early in the game and didn't really...
02:11I think it's...
02:12Brain stopped a bit in the start of the second half,
02:15but it was just...
02:15And then it got going again.
02:16The conditions were terrible.
02:20Okay, I made more errors,
02:22and they made them in really bad positions in their own half,
02:26but the defence won them the game, essentially.
02:28They kept them in the game for a long period.
02:31Snead just kept forcing dropouts,
02:34but okay, I just kept repelling on that.
02:37And that's what they built on in Willie Peter's time there,
02:40the defence, and it's won them a trophy.
02:42That long last and that try at the end,
02:45it was very, very scruffy,
02:46but they won't care, will they?
02:48No, not at all.
02:50You mentioned the errors there.
02:53Despite the wealth of experience they've got in their line-up,
02:56can you partly attribute that to an understandable nerves
03:01among some of the players?
03:02I mean, you know,
03:03regardless of how much experience is in the team,
03:05how many big games they feel that they've played in
03:08or have played in,
03:09it's still a massive occasion, isn't it?
03:11Yeah.
03:12I mean, they're only human, aren't they?
03:13And there wasn't...
03:14Clearly, there's an element of nerves there,
03:17but the ball wore up like a bar or so at times.
03:20And most of the errors were going into contact,
03:24coming loose,
03:25especially those ones in the second half.
03:27Joe Burgess just dropped the ball cold.
03:29It was a wicked spiral kick from Mark Snead
03:33that led to the Warrington's only try.
03:36So, I mean, it's tough.
03:39They're obviously going to be anxious.
03:41And I think as the game got on,
03:42it did look like it had...
03:44The dream had been crushed by Warrington,
03:47especially when Mark Snead kicked to 20-40
03:49to completely relieve the pressure
03:50just when Okia were ramping it up.
03:53Personally, I thought they were done at that point.
03:56I'll admit it.
03:57It's a long way to go.
03:59Warrington were down their end
04:00and it's chucking it down.
04:02Okia had barely been in their 20,
04:05in Warrington's 20.
04:06So, I did think they were done,
04:08I will admit.
04:09But they pulled it out of the bag the last five minutes.
04:12I think the last five minutes of the game,
04:13obviously, probably goes without saying
04:15because they scored their only try then.
04:17But they found something from somewhere.
04:19They dug deep.
04:20They found some energy from somewhere.
04:21They got down the field.
04:23They moved the ball from side to side.
04:25Hiku with a lovely tip on pass
04:28to get Davis away.
04:30Then they earned the penalty
04:31and then in the next set, they scored.
04:33So, they pulled it out of the bag.
04:35They earned it.
04:35They deserved it.
04:36They weren't the better side on the day.
04:38But they, like I said earlier,
04:39they dug in and they earned it.
04:41They did it the hard way.
04:42And, yeah, very, very pleased
04:45for everyone involved at the club
04:46because they've deserved that over the years.
04:49They've been to hell and back
04:50and they've been so close in recent years.
04:52So, to get over the line,
04:52that's massive for them
04:53and get that monkey off the back.
04:56And no one's talking about four years anymore.
04:58It's four days, I think.
05:00I was going to say,
05:01you mentioned maybe a couple of times
05:03in the build-up to the game
05:05over the course of the weeks
05:06leading up to the game.
05:08You mentioned, you know,
05:09just here and there maybe,
05:11you might have dropped it in occasionally,
05:12this 40-year wait for a trophy.
05:16I mean, how much does it mean
05:19to the club, to the fans?
05:22I mean, it's immense.
05:23It's an immense achievement, isn't it?
05:25Yeah, it's massive.
05:25They've only won the Challenge Cup
05:26once previously as well.
05:28That was five years before
05:29the last time they'd won a major trophy.
05:34So, they haven't had a great time of it.
05:37Roger Millwood's side back in the day,
05:39very successful or,
05:41well, at least one of the most successful teams
05:44around that time.
05:45But it's been such a long way
05:47and the city,
05:48so many people haven't,
05:49I haven't seen them win a trophy.
05:52Over the age of 40, obviously,
05:53maybe 45,
05:55because you won't be able to remember
05:56if you're a little nipper.
05:58But that's a hell of a lot of people
06:00who have never seen that club win a trophy.
06:02So, for those,
06:04and obviously people have sadly
06:06been lost along the way as well
06:08who probably saw them in 1980
06:10and never saw them win a trophy again.
06:12So, it was a really emotional occasion.
06:13You saw the outpouring of emotion
06:15in the stands at the end
06:17and the celebrations that followed as well.
06:19They had a great turnout
06:20for the victory parade.
06:24They're in good on them.
06:24They've had a lot of stick over the years
06:26from their rivals over the river
06:30in the west of the city.
06:31So, like I said earlier,
06:32they really deserve that day
06:34and hopefully there'll be more school.
06:36I was going to say,
06:37is this the start of a special era
06:40or a special time for Hall K.R.?
06:42I mean, now the fact,
06:43you know,
06:44they have got over the line
06:45and landed that first major trophy
06:47in 40 years.
06:49Does that make it easier?
06:50Perhaps, not easy,
06:52but does that make it
06:53a more simple task
06:56to try and get,
06:57you know,
06:57maybe a double,
06:58maybe even a treble,
06:59as has been mentioned.
07:00Yeah,
07:01the narrative's changed now,
07:02isn't it?
07:03So, when it does come to the playoff time,
07:04no one's going to be talking about them
07:06having not won anything
07:07for four decades.
07:09And that is a lot of,
07:11that weight of history
07:11had weighed them down,
07:12I do think,
07:13in recent big games.
07:15And if they'd have lost again on Saturday,
07:17that wouldn't have been.
07:18Just imagine the story
07:22going into the playoffs then
07:23and it was one of those,
07:25if they'd have lost,
07:26I couldn't see them winning a trophy
07:27this season,
07:28but now they've won,
07:28I can see them winning all three.
07:31Providing the hangover
07:33doesn't last too long,
07:34of course,
07:35but we'll get on to that.
07:36But, yeah,
07:37I do think it makes it easier
07:39for them now
07:39and I think they've already shown
07:40that they're going to stick around.
07:41If you look at the clubs
07:43who have lost in the grand final
07:44in the history of Super League,
07:46a lot of them,
07:47first-time finalists
07:49just fade away.
07:49You look at Cass,
07:52Hull FC before them in 2006,
07:55they haven't been back
07:56to Old Trafford since.
07:58Salford as well,
07:59although they had,
08:01they had a decent season
08:02a couple of seasons,
08:03oh, well, last season as well,
08:04they finished fourth last season,
08:06but they've not been back
08:06to Old Trafford.
08:07But Hull KR,
08:08they lost the grand final,
08:09you think,
08:10is that them
08:11having come so close?
08:13Will they fade away now?
08:14But they've lost one game all year,
08:16so they're here to stay
08:18and they can really kick on now.
08:20They're talking about building
08:21a dynasty like Leeds,
08:25Wigan,
08:25St. Ellen's.
08:27And yeah,
08:28as long as they keep
08:29the core of the group together,
08:30it is an ageing group
08:32and they haven't got
08:32much coming through
08:33in the academy,
08:34that's probably the big concern
08:35for Hull KR.
08:37You can't just keep buying
08:38young kids in,
08:39you've got to produce your own.
08:41So that's the big question mark
08:42over them.
08:43And the players that'll lose,
08:44even at the end of this season,
08:46you're going to lose
08:46Gerard Ware,
08:47Hargreaves,
08:48Mickey McAlaurem,
08:50Tyrone May,
08:51and there might be others as well.
08:54So,
08:54yeah,
08:56that's the big question mark,
08:57but I think they've got,
08:58they've got the foundation
08:58in place.
08:59They've got
08:59homegrown core,
09:01not necessarily from Hull,
09:02but British lads.
09:04So they'll be right,
09:05yeah,
09:05and they'll be right up there.
09:07It's only really
09:08a two-horse race
09:09at the moment.
09:10Super League's quite tight
09:11from positions
09:12three to nine,
09:13but the top two
09:14are far and away
09:15the best two sides this year.
09:16So you'd expect them
09:17to be back at Old Trafford
09:18and Hull KR will be
09:20far more confident
09:21than they were going in
09:22last year.
09:24Willie Peters,
09:25he's already a highly regarded
09:27coach because of what
09:28he's done at Hull KR.
09:31Does this make him,
09:32I hate to say it,
09:33but does it make,
09:34does this success
09:35make him a more
09:36attractive proposition
09:38for, dare I say,
09:38clubs back down under?
09:41I think it does,
09:41yeah,
09:42and he does want
09:42to go back there,
09:43but going through something
09:44like Saturday,
09:46living through those emotions,
09:48it'd be very hard
09:49for him to leave this behind
09:50when you're in the process
09:51of building something special.
09:53So he has got that,
09:55obviously the pull
09:56to go back home,
09:57but his family has settled here.
09:58So he was only asked
10:00a few weeks ago
10:00when he was linked
10:01with a Perth job.
10:02They've since got someone else.
10:05But yeah,
10:06clubs down under,
10:08they'll be sitting up
10:09and taking notes,
10:10just like they have
10:10with Matt Peet as well,
10:11but he's under
10:12a long-term contract.
10:13So I'd expect him
10:15to see it out.
10:17Fingers crossed for Hulke,
10:18because he's obviously
10:19the guy who's taking them
10:20to that next level.
10:21They threatened it
10:22under Tony Smith
10:22without really convincing,
10:24but now they are
10:26the real deal,
10:26obviously,
10:26because they've got
10:27a trophy now
10:27and they're going for more.
10:30And is that the big challenge
10:31now that faces Hulke,
10:33not to be seen
10:34as a flash in the pan,
10:35that they really need
10:36to sort of ram home
10:36this sort of quality
10:39that they've now displayed
10:41for a couple of years
10:42under Peters
10:42and sort of build
10:44that dynasty
10:45to be a team
10:46that is remembered
10:48for the ages,
10:49as it were.
10:50Yeah,
10:51and James Batchelor,
10:52I've spoken to him
10:53so often recently.
10:54Hulke,
10:55I put him up
10:55before every big game,
10:58so I spoke to him
10:58at the start of last week
10:59and after the game
11:00on Saturday
11:00and he was already
11:01talking about,
11:03I said,
11:04I asked him,
11:05well,
11:06I put to him
11:06that you're legends
11:07of the club now,
11:08how does that feel
11:08when will that sink in?
11:09And he said,
11:10well,
11:10if we sit here
11:11and think we're legends
11:11of the club,
11:12then our season
11:13could derail quickly,
11:14we'd want to go
11:14for all three trophies.
11:15So that's the attitude
11:16you want to hear.
11:17I don't know how many beers
11:18he's had since we spoke.
11:21But knowing OKR,
11:22they'll turn up
11:23on Friday night
11:23against Catalan
11:24and they'll be
11:25the same old OKR
11:26maybe with a bit
11:28of weariness,
11:29but they couldn't have
11:29asked for a better game
11:30I don't think.
11:31I was going to say,
11:32the important thing
11:34is that there is
11:35no sort of let-up,
11:36isn't there?
11:36Like you said,
11:37you're going to understand
11:37that they're going
11:38to have celebrations,
11:39like you mentioned
11:40the parade on Sunday,
11:42they'll enjoy that,
11:43but I imagine
11:44Willie Peters
11:44won't be the kind
11:45of coach
11:46that will let them
11:47sort of wallow
11:49in their sort of
11:50success for too long
11:51and he'll want
11:52them back at it
11:53and this has been
11:55the case with him
11:56every week really,
11:58it's always about
11:59the next game
12:00and he's very quick
12:01to move on
12:02from any great performance
12:04they may have put in
12:05during the course
12:05of this season.
12:06Very quickly,
12:07it's just another game
12:08we need to move on,
12:08the next one's
12:09the most important game
12:10always.
12:10But yeah,
12:11it is always,
12:12it's hard from our
12:14point of view
12:14and it is always
12:15like that,
12:15but I think
12:17it'll give them
12:17more leeway this week.
12:21We won't do much
12:21training before Friday
12:22and there's going
12:25to be an energy drop,
12:27it's just natural
12:28and I think most
12:29of the fans
12:29will accept that
12:30as well because
12:30they've just seen
12:31the side win a trophy
12:32for the first time
12:33in a generation
12:35or two.
12:35But yeah,
12:38it's going to be
12:38tough for them.
12:40We've got Wigan
12:41breathing down the neck
12:42and they don't know
12:42if they lose this week.
12:43More than likely
12:44they're going to lose
12:45top spot,
12:45so that's the carrot
12:46in itself to go out
12:47and do a job
12:48on Catalan
12:49who are not
12:51in a great place.
12:52They've lost their
12:52head coach,
12:52they haven't scored
12:53for three games
12:54and they'll have
12:56no fans behind them.
12:59They're going into
12:59all KR's backyard
13:00so I don't think
13:01it could be any better
13:02from a whole KR
13:03point of view
13:04and I don't
13:06want to be
13:08disrespectful
13:08but even half-cut
13:09they should be able
13:10to turn up
13:11and beat Catalan
13:11the way they're
13:12playing at the moment.
13:14I was disrespectful,
13:15I apologise.
13:18But in terms of
13:20the other sort of
13:21games that are up
13:23this weekend,
13:23I suppose the standout
13:24one is it actually
13:25involves all KR's
13:26opponents at Wembley,
13:28Warrington,
13:29they're going over
13:29to Leeds.
13:30Warrington will
13:31obviously want to
13:31bounce back from
13:32the disappointment
13:32of losing a game
13:33that they probably
13:34felt they'd more
13:36or less done just
13:37enough to win
13:37until those last
13:38sort of three or
13:39four minutes.
13:40But they're coming
13:40up against a Leeds
13:41team who are
13:41perhaps the only
13:43candidate to
13:44perhaps chase down
13:47Wigan and
13:48Hall KR.
13:48And even in that,
13:49that's a tall order
13:51in itself.
13:51But under
13:52Matt Arthur,
13:53they're doing a very
13:55good job this season,
13:55aren't they?
13:56And they are a
13:56formidable team.
13:58I think you're right
13:59there.
13:59I think they're
14:00probably the nearest
14:00challenge as well.
14:01The league table
14:02says as much.
14:03I'm not convinced
14:03by Lee.
14:04Hull have got a few
14:05injuries at the
14:06moment.
14:06They've been up and
14:06down.
14:07St.
14:07Ellen's,
14:08yeah,
14:09I don't know what
14:10to make of St.
14:10Ellen's.
14:11They do all right
14:13against the teams
14:14they should do all
14:14right against and
14:15then against the
14:15better sides are
14:16nowhere near.
14:17And then I like
14:17to look awakey.
14:18But again,
14:19they're not close to
14:20Wigan and
14:21LKR at the
14:21moment.
14:23And Warrington
14:23down there in
14:24eighth.
14:26Yeah,
14:26it's just
14:27same for
14:28LKR.
14:29I think,
14:30but I'm going to
14:31flip it over this
14:31time.
14:32I think it's a good
14:32game for Leeds
14:33getting Warrington
14:34the week after.
14:35Warrington rushed a
14:35few players back
14:36last week from
14:37injury like George
14:38Williams.
14:40And the
14:40emotional,
14:41well,
14:42the physical
14:42toll it took
14:44getting back for
14:44that game and
14:45then the mental
14:45toll of playing in
14:46the game and
14:46coming up short.
14:47I'm not sure if
14:48those guys will
14:50play this week.
14:51They've got a few
14:51injuries anyway.
14:52The guys who
14:53missed the final
14:54like Danny Walker
14:55and Matty Ashton.
14:56So it's a big
14:58ask for Warrington
14:59to come off a
15:00game like that and
15:00go to Leeds and
15:01win.
15:02I just can't see
15:03it happening.
15:04I think Rhinos
15:04will be too good
15:05for them.
15:07Only Hull
15:07KR have conceded
15:08fewer points than
15:09Leeds.
15:10So they're in a
15:10great spot there.
15:11And I just,
15:12yeah,
15:12I think Leeds
15:13will win that
15:13game.
15:14And just lastly,
15:15James,
15:15obviously it was
15:16another big day
15:17out.
15:17For two other
15:18Yorkshire teams on
15:18Saturday,
15:19following on from
15:20the Challenge Cup
15:21final when
15:22Hull KR edged
15:23out Warrington.
15:24It was another
15:25close game,
15:25another low scoring
15:26game.
15:28Featherstone Rovers,
15:29sadly,
15:29like Hull KR two
15:30years ago in the
15:31Challenge Cup
15:31final,
15:32lost out in the
15:33Golden Point to
15:34York Knights.
15:35Again,
15:36you know,
15:36fantastic achievement
15:37that two Yorkshire
15:38clubs were down there
15:39contesting that game
15:40for a start.
15:41and clearly two
15:43quality sides that
15:44in a way,
15:45I guess,
15:46like the Challenge
15:47Cup that
15:47preceded it,
15:48kind of cancelled
15:49each other out to
15:50a large extent.
15:51They did,
15:51yeah.
15:53I think the men's
15:53teams have been
15:54wishing they played
15:55in that first game
15:56because the women's
15:56conditions were
15:57relatively good
15:58and that was quite
15:59a high scoring.
16:00Wigan Warriors put
16:01a lot of points in
16:03St.
16:03Ellen's and there's a
16:04change in the guard
16:04going on in the
16:05women's games.
16:05But yeah,
16:06the men got the
16:07raw end of the
16:07deal with the
16:08conditions and it
16:09just shows how
16:10much in the
16:11points scored.
16:12There were no
16:12tries in that
16:13York Featherston
16:14game,
16:14obviously one each
16:15in the men's
16:16final.
16:17So yeah,
16:17proper old school
16:18dust up in wet
16:20conditions and
16:21York came out on
16:22top.
16:23I'm really pleased
16:23for Mark
16:24Applegarth who we
16:25know from his
16:26time at Wakefield
16:27had a horrible
16:28time there getting
16:30asked questions
16:31after every defeat
16:33and he came out
16:34each week and
16:35yeah,
16:37puffed his chest
16:37out and got on
16:38with it and
16:40there must be
16:41a part of him
16:42who was thinking
16:42I wish Wakefield
16:44had spent all
16:45that money
16:45or an hour there
16:46and he could
16:47have done the
16:47job that Darryl
16:48Powell's doing,
16:48we'll never know
16:49but Wakey's loss
16:51or his York's
16:54game and they're
16:55going great guns
16:56under him.
16:56He came in
16:57middle last season
16:57and there were
16:58nowhere near the
16:58playoffs,
16:59he got them to
16:59the playoffs,
17:00ironically beaten
17:02by Wakey in the
17:03semis but the
17:05look,
17:06we're going to
17:06be right up
17:06there again
17:07this year and
17:07it's a more
17:08open competition
17:09you'd say without
17:10Wakefield or
17:11Lee of the past
17:13so we've got
17:14every chance to
17:14double up,
17:15maybe even get
17:17that treble,
17:17you never know,
17:18Feverson as well,
17:19they're going well
17:21under Paul Cook,
17:23he's got them
17:24playing for each
17:24other again so he
17:26could really harness
17:27something then,
17:28shaping up is a
17:28really good competition
17:29there's obviously
17:30Bradford Bulls who
17:31are going well
17:31so Luz are always
17:32up there,
17:34so shaping up is a
17:35good competition
17:35and the 1895 is a
17:37great competition
17:37because it gives
17:38these players a
17:39chance to play at
17:40Wembley and as
17:41they were all
17:41saying last week
17:42they're not going
17:43to get anywhere
17:44near the Challenge
17:44Cup final so this
17:45is their moment
17:46and they really
17:47enjoyed it on
17:48Saturday.
17:49YorkshirePost.co.uk