- 6/6/2025
The big focus of this episode of India First is on Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Jammu and Kashmir where he inaugurated Chenab Rail Bridge, the world's highest railway bridge at 359 meters, taller than the Eiffel Tower and flagged off Vande Bharat trains.
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00:00Good evening, the images that I'm about to show you will fill your hearts with joy.
00:04The tricolor flying high on the Chinab Railway's bridge.
00:09It's an engineering marvel.
00:11It's the world's highest railway bridge at 359 meters above the Chinab River.
00:18And you must see those images.
00:20This is a bridge that's actually taller.
00:23It's higher than the Eiffel Tower by 35 meters.
00:26It makes it the tallest railway's bridge across the world.
00:301,315 meter length.
00:32And that includes a 467 meter main art span.
00:37It's one of its kind and it connects Kashmir by rail.
00:41It's been a dream of the people of Jammu and Kashmir for decades.
00:45In fact, Jammu Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, he said even the British were trying to connect Uri by train and they didn't succeed.
00:54But the images that you see there, Prime Minister Narendra Modi waving that tricolor with great pride.
01:01It sends across a very important message, not just to the people of Jammu and Kashmir and the rest of the country, but across the world.
01:11It also sends out a message militarily and strategically.
01:16And that's our top focus story on India First.
01:18Prime Minister's first Jammu and Kashmir visit post-Operation Sindhu.
01:44Loudest Message to Pakistan
01:53Big connectivity and strategic boost.
02:16That is our top focus on India First.
02:46And that's our top focus story on this broadcast.
02:50Also on India First, coming up at 8.30, Union Petroleum Minister Hardi Puri on 11 years of the Narendra Modi government.
02:57The road ahead.
02:59And of course, what's happening globally with petroleum, with energy security and also diplomatically.
03:05That's coming up at 8.30.
03:06I'm Gaurav Savant.
03:07Proudly waving the tricolor on that Chinab Railway bridge, Prime Minister Narendra Modi sent out the strongest message to Pakistan.
03:19Of course, that's after the Brahmo supersonic cruise missiles struck multiple Pakistani Air Force bases.
03:25But the message of the Prime Minister was about a resurgent Bharat and a resurgent Jammu and Kashmir in Nayab Bharat.
03:34The Prime Minister declared terror will not and cannot stop development in Jammu and Kashmir.
03:41In a very significant statement, the Prime Minister on his first visit to Jammu and Kashmir after the Pahalgaam terror attack,
03:49since Operation Sindhuur made it very clear,
03:52any obstacle in the path of development in Jammu and Kashmir or any terror will first have to deal with him.
04:00Take a look at this ground report.
04:04Prime Minister Narendra Modi delivered a sharp and clear message to India's enemy from the soil of Jammu and Kashmir.
04:21Prime Minister Modi called out Terroristan on its role in the monstrous Pahalgaam attack,
04:26which aimed to hurt Jammu and Kashmir's development.
04:29Prime Minister Narendra Modi
04:59Holding Pakistan directly responsible for burning the bridges of peace,
05:04he warned that Pakistan wants to sow seeds of discontent and trigger riots.
05:09He lauded the people of Kashmir for rejecting Pakistan's agenda.
05:37Prime Minister Narendra Modi
06:07The prime minister took the opportunity to warn Terroristan,
06:14lauding Indian forces for avenging Pahalgaam through Operation Sindhuur.
06:18पाइसियों आपे परे आपे आपे लिए अनदर जाकर के आतंक बादियों परी इस तरह वार करेगा.
06:19पाकिस्तानी फोच और आतंक वानियों आतंकियों ने कभी सोचा नहीं था कि भारत पाकिस्तान है
06:35Prime Minister Modi also pledged that he will fight all forces that seek to derail
07:05the vision of Vixit Kashmir
07:07जम्भू कश्मीर के आप सभी लोगों को और आप सबसे नरेंडर मोदी का वाइदा है
07:19मैं यहाँ विकास को रुकने नहीं दूँगा
07:25यहाँ के नव जवानों को सपने पूरा करने से
07:31कोई भी बादा अगर रुकावड बनती है
07:37तो उस बादा को पहले मोदी का सामना करना पडेगा
07:46With strong words and stronger resolve the Prime Minister made it clear
07:51that India under his leadership will help transform Jammu in Kashmir
07:56from a valley of conflict into a cradle of opportunity
08:00Bureau Report, India Today
08:03From a valley of conflict, a valley in turmoil
08:10To a valley of opportunity, peace and development
08:14Let's talk a little more about this Chanab Railway's bridge
08:17It is an engineering marvel, the tallest in the world
08:21Taller than the Eiffel Tower
08:23It's also a strategic asset of the country
08:26That will help movement when required
08:29Of troops, defence, logistics
08:31And it's built in a very high security zone
08:34It's also a very sensitive zone in Ryasi
08:37Now the bridge is actually built to survive
08:40Seismic zone pressures, can withstand very high wind speeds
08:44Our reporters on ground get you more on this report
08:46Prime Minister Narendra Modi's first visit to Jammu and Kashmir
08:58After the Pehalgaam terror attack
09:01It was a clear message to the enemies of India
09:07Modi waved the tricolor at the Chanab Rail Bridge
09:11Which he unveiled, reiterating India's stand that the nation will not bow down to terror
09:19The Prime Minister inaugurated a slew of projects
09:23Modi flagged off the Vande Bharat trains that will link Kashmir to Katra
09:29We are on board the first Vande Bharat train which is now travelling from Katra to Srinagar
09:35And this is the Chanab Railway Bridge
09:38Which has now been constructed using various technologies
09:43It is one arch bridge and this is above 359 metres above the Chanab river which is taller than Eiffel Tower
09:55This is a 272 km long rail network which has more than 38 tunnels
10:02The game changer gateway to the Kashmir valley is like a dream come true
10:09The Chanab Rail Bridge, an engineering marvel, is said to become a tourist favourite
10:16The Chanab Bridge in Iran and the Nahum country will have also been emperor
10:24Là at the time then, the Chine Bridge and also the Chine Bridge
10:32the bridge that took decades to complete is a testament to India's growing capabilities
10:51in infrastructure and innovation.
10:54The bridge will revive local economies, open doors to tourism,
10:59boosting the economy of Jammu and Kashmir.
11:04Jammu and Kashmir CM Umar Abdullah lauded the Modi government's infra push in the valley
11:10and remembered that the Chenab river project was started when he was in class 8.
11:16The bridge, a standing example of India's prosperity.
11:21And Modi vowed to continue this drive.
11:42The Chenab rail bridge and the Vande Bharat train service are a milestone in the region's transformation to Naya Kashmir.
12:01With Piyush Mishra and Meir Fareed, Bureau Report, India Today.
12:08It's being hailed as the bridge of development.
12:13The bridge of India's resolve.
12:16The bridge that promises a bright future.
12:19But unable to bridge the political divide.
12:22And we have three different perspectives on this special broadcast.
12:25Dr. Shama Mohammed of the Congress.
12:27Tawseef Shah of the PDP, RPC of the BJP.
12:30But before politics, let's talk to Lieutenant General KJS Dhillan.
12:34General Tiny Dhillan is former Director General of Defence Intelligence Agency
12:38and former Kashmir Corps commander on the strategic significance of this bridge.
12:42General, you've commanded the Kashmir Corps.
12:46You've also served as a young Lieutenant.
12:49You've commanded your company, your battalion, your brigade.
12:53What does this bridge mean for the people of Jammu and Kashmir?
12:56Good evening, Gaurav, and good evening to all your viewers.
13:00See, this bridge, Chinab Bridge and the affiliated tunnels,
13:04which are taking the train from Katra to Srinagar.
13:07It's a very, like, brought out by you in the preamble.
13:10It's a very strategic significance it has.
13:13And for the development of the region, as also to aligning the region towards the rest of India.
13:19You know, bridges, sorry, rivers and mountains are psychological barriers.
13:24And it has been, through the human history, there have been always psychological barriers.
13:29And once you make tunnels and bridges, that joins people, the hut,
13:35that joins people from the development point of view, and integration as a national culture.
13:41Now, coming to the strategic and military importance of it.
13:45As you see, as a young Lieutenant or Captain, as you are referring to, I used to travel from Srinagar to Jammu in more than 12 to 14 hours by a military bus.
13:57And today, if we cut down the timing from Katra to Srinagar and subsequently from Jammu to Srinagar to one-fourth, I think that is some very, very big achievement.
14:08And more so because this road from Jammu, Udhampur, Ramban, Banihal, Srinagar is very prone to weather conditions.
14:19Half the time during winters, the convoy or the traffic moves only one way.
14:23That means either the up convoy or the down convoy.
14:26That would restrict your movement to an alternate day.
14:29And there are so many landslides, especially in the Ramban area, that the road traffic or the road travel was very, very uncertain.
14:37And from the military point of view, if you are in operations and there is some sort of a conflict going on on the borders,
14:44your convoy's movement, your logistics coming up have to be 100 percent assured.
14:50Now we have the road movement, and this will also reduce the traffic on the roads,
14:56because most of the people will now travel by train.
14:59The road congestion will reduce.
15:01The logistics can move faster by road.
15:03We have alternate route of moving the trains.
15:05And of course the air travel or the air movement is possible.
15:09So as a military man, the person was commanded a core in Kashmir.
15:13Yes.
15:14It is a great, great significance and it will enhance our strategical and military confidence and the capabilities
15:22within the Kashmir Valley to a large extent, without going into the tactical and strategic details.
15:29You know, when I interviewed you when you were commanding the core immediately after the Pulwama terror attack,
15:34that convoy was moving on the road which was targeted by those terrorists.
15:39Jaisa Mohamad terrorists in Kashmir, that VBI, IED, Vehicle Born Improvised Explosive Device.
15:44What I want to understand from you is, will this train be as vulnerable first to terrorists and second to Pakistani drones or missiles or aircraft?
15:55Gaurav, since I was involved in the planning of security for this train when I was a corps commander,
16:03and again going into, not going into the details of the strategic things,
16:08all those aspects which you have spoken about, and in addition to that many others,
16:13have been taken into consideration and a very well laid out security plan for the rail movement has been worked out.
16:20And by now it would have been even more honed up or more polished.
16:24And I can assure you, the train movement will be very, very secure,
16:29not only from the terrorist angle, also from the enemy's angle.
16:34So, be rest assured on that, those aspects have been taken care of and covered.
16:39General, the Prime Minister's message was extremely significant.
16:42In Pehalgaam, Hindus were singled out.
16:45They were killed after asking them their religion.
16:49Was this to trigger, as he said, communal riots in India?
16:52And can the terrorists attempt that once again?
16:55And that will once again derail the Kashmir growth story?
16:59Gaurav, Kashmir growth story has now got into a phase where it is self-sustaining.
17:06Small hiccups will come, but it is irreversible now.
17:09Because the stakeholders, the awam of Kashmir, the people of Kashmir, the students of Kashmir, the job seekers of Kashmir, the self-employed people of Kashmir have tasted the dividends of peace.
17:24In a house where there used to be, you know, rat-ki-roati ke lalhe padhe hotey hootethe,
17:28they have to earn 2-3,000 pay in the evening.
17:33Now that family and that child is the only child who goes to school, where no hospital is getting hurt.
17:38So that family would never want Kashmir to go back to those buildings like this.
17:42So Kashmir's development, Kashmir's progress is irreversible with these types of linkages happening now.
17:50The psychological barriers will also diminish over a period of time.
17:54And as I always say, economics drives peace.
17:57And when the economic activity in Kashmir will go up, the peace will go up.
18:02And how long before that terror-enabling ecosystem?
18:05Before I bring in a political guess, I want to understand from you.
18:08This terror-enabling ecosystem in Kashmir, the ones who fund either stone pelters or the ones who shield terrorists,
18:15like the Pulwama terror attack, because even the Pahlgaam terrorists are still at large.
18:22Those people who shield such elements, how long before they are rooted out?
18:26Gurus, there are two aspects to your question.
18:29One is, no terrorism can sustain itself without the local support.
18:34And as I answered in my previous question, with the economic development happening, with the progress happening,
18:39infrastructure becoming better, the tourism growing, the agro-industry growing,
18:44and also the children getting better education, better job creation,
18:48all those things will make sure the local support will wean away slowly and slowly.
18:52Even today, there are only 20 percent local terrorists, 80 percent are Pakistani terrorists.
18:57That only shows how much support the terrorism has in Kashmir.
19:01For the last two years, I'm told, not a single boy has joined terrorism in Pulwama district.
19:07Now, that is one aspect of it.
19:09The second aspect of it is, when the development happens, when the psychological barriers break,
19:14and when the linkages happen, that means interdependence on the other side of the psychological and natural barriers would increase.
19:24And with that feeling coming in, Kashmir is on the absolutely right path.
19:29And I don't think this peace process is now, by any stretch of imagination, is irreversible.
19:37This is bound to go up, up and up.
19:40Thank you very much for joining me on that very positive note.
19:44I also want to bring in Tawseef Shah of the PDP, Dr. Shama Mohammed of the Congress and RPC of the BJP, joining me on this show.
19:52Tawseef Shah, in your appreciation, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah said,
19:56the British had envisioned a railway link along the Jhelam River to Uri.
20:01They failed.
20:02He credited Prime Minister Narendra Modi's leadership that the Chinab Bridge is a reality.
20:07What does the bridge in your appreciation mean for the people of Jammu and Kashmir?
20:12No, it's...
20:15I'm very thankful to you for giving me time to call on your show.
20:19It's a moment of very pride for every Indian.
20:22It's obviously a moment of pride for the people of Jammu and Kashmir who were waiting for this railway line since long,
20:29approximately for the last 75 years.
20:31Since you know that our transportation is normally a lifeline of any state, any city.
20:38So, in that lifeline, the railway is number one lifeline because, you know, we have bad weathers.
20:45We have weathers when our main national highway is not connected to the rest of India.
20:50So now, because of the railway, the fare prices of the air travel are going to be lowered, obviously.
20:59But there's one point that I'd like to bring through your India Today channel to hold the India,
21:04that we request that they have decided not to send any transportation trains on this track.
21:13It means that the mall car comes, it's not permitted on this track.
21:19So what I request is that if we call it a lifeline, then being a lifeline, we have to have the mall car service also on this track.
21:28Because, you know, we have, as I already mentioned that we have times when our road connectivity is not connected to the rest of India.
21:36So the prices shoot up, if you see in Jammu, the difference in the prices in Jammu and Senegar is approximately 30% because of the track.
21:47Because we have to load the things in truck from Jammu and bring it to Senegar.
21:51So this is a request that we should, we should, we should, being Indians, being that this is a lifeline.
21:56Yes, we accept that it's a lifeline.
21:58But this, this is a very humble request from my end.
22:01Fair enough.
22:02We should be given a chance.
22:03That's a pertinent point.
22:04Dr. Mohamad, Prime Minister Narendra Modi in his address said,
22:07all the good work has been left for me to finish.
22:11The project was started earlier, of course approved in 1995, declared of national importance in 2002,
22:17but completed only in 2025.
22:20And isn't the Prime Minister right that that final push that's required for completion,
22:26that motivation, that dedication and that push came, comes in his tenure or came in his tenure?
22:33First and foremost, if this debate is till 8.30, do not invite your panelists
22:39because I'm not going to come for a 10 minute debate again.
22:41There is no, it's a, you know, there's no time for you to ask questions and there's no time for us to answer.
22:46And you wasted 30 seconds of that again, but go on Dr. Mohamad.
22:50Yeah. Okay. The other point is, the bridge is a wonderful thing for the people of Jammu and Kashmir.
22:55I agree on that. And this time taken, we have done enough and more developments.
23:00But what I'm upset about is the Prime Minister of India visits Jammu and Kashmir only for inauguration.
23:07He came back from Saudi Arabia. And where did he run to? He came back and he ran for a rally in Bihar.
23:14After that, he went to Andhra Pradesh for another rally.
23:18Then he went to Trivandrum for the inauguration of Virnamput and another inauguration.
23:22Then he went for some waves program in Mumbai.
23:25But my leader, Rahul Gandhi, he came back from the U.S.
23:28On the 25th of April, he went to meet the injured in the hospital in Pahalgam.
23:33Then on the 30th, he went to meet Shubham Divedi's family in Lucknow.
23:38And then on the 6th of May, he went to meet Vinay Narwal in Karnal.
23:42So this is Rahul Gandhi. And that's very important.
23:45The Prime Minister of India, when any leader, when an attack like this happens,
23:51first is that they visit the people and they visit the victim's family.
23:54Number two, you said your program is what? India first.
23:59I want to ask you today, why haven't you asked this Prime Minister,
24:03what action has he taken on Vijay Shah, who spoke against Sofia Pureshi?
24:07What action has he taken against Rambir Pathania, who is an Udhampur MLA from Jammu and Kashmir,
24:13who said, what action has he taken? He has not taken any action.
24:18And number three, you said, will killing the Hindus alone by the Pakistanis,
24:24you know, you mentioned, will it trigger a communal violence?
24:28What did Amit Shah say three days ago in West Bengal?
24:32He said, Mamata Banerjee does not stand with Operation Sindhu because she wants to protect her Muslim vote.
24:38That means the Muslims are against Operation Sindhu.
24:40Isn't that polarization? You send MPs all around the world saying,
24:44united, we are against Pakistan. Here, the Home Minister of India is insulting Muslims.
24:48Am I not for Operation Sindhu? Is the man from PDP not for Operation Sindhu?
24:53How dare the Prime Minister talk in that language?
24:56There's no point of all this inauguration, everything, or sending people abroad.
25:00When you day in and day out insult Muslims, you day in and day out insult the army,
25:04why have Prime Minister not taken action? And why did the Prime Minister not go to Pahlkang before?
25:08Why did you not go to Jammu and Krishnir to meet the families?
25:11RPC, you want to quickly respond to Dr. Shama Mohammed?
25:14Well, he already had a grievance with you that you are not given a good time and you called her for a shorter period.
25:20But I have no grievances.
25:22See, when the CM of the Bengal supports a bill which has been approved by the centre, by the parliament,
25:34and her member parliament there says that we will ensure that whoever had to get through this bill will take out his eyes.
25:42So they are targeting a particular vote bank. And she said that I won't allow this to implement in my state.
25:48So they are targeting a particular vote bank. And in that context, it was said,
25:51it's not that anyone is dotting any Muslim in the country at all. Please, let's be very clear on this.
25:55But coming to the issue of what Prime Minister said, it is more important. That in spite of what has happened in Kashmir…
26:02Okay, Dr. Shama Mohammed, you have had your say. You will have to wait till RPC completes his say.
26:08Says what he wants to. Go on, RPC complete your point, sir.
26:12So, what he said today was that he would not let the Kashmiri or Jammu Kashmir down. I mean, because of whatever has happened, still the progress must go on.
26:24The way things have changed. There is no stone pelting which is happening in Kashmir now. Terrorism has come down.
26:31As a matter of fact, this particular incident happened. But overall, as a numeric number, the terrorism has come down.
26:37Okay.
26:38And also, that yes, there is a lot of push on the development of the Kashmir. Unlike the regime of the UPA, where they were scared of building roads around the border.
26:50Saying that, oh, if we build roads, China will encroach on our roads and then use our roads. So…
26:55Sir, since you've directly raised a point, I wanted to bring in Tawseef Shah. But Dr. Mohammed, you want to quickly respond to the point RPC is making.
27:01That there was no border, there was little border infrastructure development during the Congress regime, he says.
27:06Because Congress was scared, the adversary may use it. Now, there is a big push on border infrastructure development, ma'am.
27:15Ma'am, you will have to unmute yourself, please.
27:1830 seconds, go on.
27:21I don't care. Okay. Don't be like a child.
27:24Now, what I'm saying is that, he can say whatever. That we are scared. How can we be scared? Who got Ajmal Kassab and Hangep? Where are the four terrorists? Where are they? Tell me.
27:35Who allowed Ajmal Kassab to be killed on a platter to Pakistan? Who gave Ajmal Kassab on a platter to Pakistan? The person who was accused of not an express?
27:46Sir, I have not let Harit up to you. Please let her complete her point. Go on, Dr. Mohammed, complete her point.
27:50What I'm saying is, he says we are scared. We caught Ajmal Kassab. You haven't caught the four terrorists. You don't even know their names. Who are they? Where are they? Who is accountable for this?
27:58And no, no. He keeps saying that how many terrorist attacks have happened. People, migrant labors. People going to doctors and killing them. Taking out doctors from their homes. Shopkeepers.
28:09This has never happened at the time of the Congress. You know, and we know what happened in Pathanport. All the air force bases have been attacked. Even though it's, I'm not talking about Jammu and Kashmir. I'm talking about generally.
28:20So, what you're saying is not right. And I want to know today, he's not able to answer. He's talking about Pathanport, there's something attached.
28:27Why haven't you taken action on Vijay Shah when the Supreme Court of India pulled up, pulled up, pulled up your government on BJP government?
28:35Man, since today my show is on the railway bridge connectivity and development in Kashmir. I want to stay on the topic for the moment.
28:42But I want to bring in Tawseef Shah on the point that Dr. Shama Mohammed raised, Mr. Shah, on migrant laborers or people from outside or pundits being targeted in Kashmir, even in these years, you know, post-2019.
29:00Is there an effort to ensure that people from the rest of the country also feel safe in the Kashmir Valley and whoever is targeting them, they are sorted out, sir?
29:10So, let me just speak out on it. The main thing is that we have to see that there's a security lapse. There's been a major security lapse.
29:23So, there have been many pundits targeted. There have been many non-Muslims. And even Muslims have been targeted. It's not only non-Muslims. Even Muslims have also been targeted.
29:31But we have to see that who is responsible for this. We are the highest militarized zone in the world right now. We have approximately 1.2 million armed forces here. So, why then are these things happening?
29:46So, the people of Kashmir have no responsibilities, is what you are saying?
29:51That, you know, usually the basic message is that terrorists, if they are operating in an area, they are like fish in water. If they have no local support, they cannot operate.
30:03No, no. Responsibility. If you now speak on the responsibility, then we have to start the responsibility from our borders.
30:09So, how are they able to cross the borders? How are these arms, ammunitions, the RDXs, how is it possible that they are bringing in, like we all know that the biggest Pulwama attack, it has approximately 450 kilograms of RDX.
30:26Where did it come from? Where did it come from? The border is approximately 350 kilometers away.
30:32And Aze had no role to play. The local terrorists, his indoctrination, Jaish-e-Mohmad, no role to play.
30:38They were like little kindergarten children sucking lollipop and suddenly they put arduous and blasted into a CIP van.
30:44There is always an exception. If we have seen, we have seen that, we can, let us, let us be straightforward and let us be very, let's call a spade a spade.
30:53Local support to terror is not important for you, is what you are saying, Tawseek Shah.
30:57Yes, local terror, yes, I, yes, I accept that there is a local support to the terror.
31:02Because let's at least call a spade a spade.
31:05Dr. Shama Muhammad, you know that local support to terror, I completely take that point about security forces.
31:10They need to be more vigilant, no doubt. But security forces also have to be supported by local population.
31:16Dr. Shama Muhammad.
31:18You know, I totally agree. Whoever is guilty, one has to catch them.
31:22Whether they come from inside or whether they come from outside.
31:24But you mentioned, you, he mentioned Jaish-e-Mohmad, you mentioned.
31:28Now, who released Masood Azhar? Who released him? The Bhakia Junta party.
31:32So, let's understand who is behind these things. How dare they release him?
31:37I mean, this is not the way we deal with terrorists. Let me tell you one thing, Gaurav.
31:40You cannot and should not India ever negotiate with terrorists.
31:44We should have never released this Masood Azhar.
31:47And he's caused chaos in India. You know, from the parliament attack to this now.
31:51And continuous attacks done by him.
31:54Hafiz Saeed is left loose. Masood Azhar is roaming free.
31:57Ma'am, I completely agree with you.
31:59Right from the time when terrorists were released for Rubaiya Saeed, Mahbubha Mufti's sister.
32:05You know, when terrorists were released in 1989-90, the beginning of terrorism in Kashmir Valley.
32:10I completely agree with you.
32:11But, R.P. Singh, last 30 seconds.
32:14Last 30 seconds.
32:15R.P. Singh, I'm sorry, ma'am.
32:17I got my timing a little alright.
32:18But go on.
32:19R.P. Singh, last 30 seconds on this part of the show.
32:21Well, how can you forget Ajmat Ali, the person who was caught in some Yota Express, was given on platter to Pakistan after being caught and there was no pressure.
32:30There was no arm twisting by any terrorist group.
32:35Just simply because you wanted to create a narrative of Hindu terrorism in the country, you give a man on a platter.
32:41Not only that, the tears were rolling down when battle hours happened.
32:46You remember that?
32:47Mr. Samankaraj is on the board saying that the tears were rolling down on the cheek.
32:50Today, my subject was all about development and Naya Kashmir.
32:54And I sincerely hope that remains the focus or we will remain trapped in that narrative that the terrorist state across the border wants us to pursue.
33:04But we will pursue a narrative that's about a strong India that will continue to punish terror.
33:15With tensions high both in West Asia and in Europe and India importing 85% of our crude oil, energy security remains one of India's biggest challenges.
33:27And in the 11th year of the Narendra Modi government, with me on this India Today special broadcast is Hardi Puri, India's Petroleum Minister, a diplomat for over 39 years.
33:40Mr. Puri, welcome on India Today.
33:44Sir, your biggest challenges in today's day and age when you look at missiles flying in West Asia and in Europe?
33:51Sir, insofar as the energy sector is concerned, I don't think the issue of challenges is part of our, it's not an anxiety factor.
34:02At any given point of time, we import energy from 40 countries in the world.
34:09The Modi years have seen a diversification in terms of countries' origins of supply.
34:16We used to import from 27, we are importing from 39, now even from Argentina, 40.
34:22We have a good story to tell, both in terms of diversification of imports, increase of exploration and production in crude oil and gas.
34:31Every year our gas production goes, our natural gas, by 18%.
34:34But we are still, because the economy is booming, last quarter was 7.5% rate of growth, only thereabouts.
34:40We still import 50% of our gas also, but there are some fantastic potential which is being realized.
34:50Our biofuels mix was 1.4, 1.5% in 2015.
34:55We are now doing 20%, 6 years in advance, as a result of which we have been able to pay our farmers 1 lakh crore by way of compensation.
35:06Our green hydrogen story is beginning to take shape.
35:09IOC has awarded a big tender to one of our companies, and if that is replicated, I can tell you, we buy 1.5 billion dollars worth of energy.
35:22Last year it was 1.39 billion dollars, this thing, it goes up also.
35:28We can substitute our domestic clean energy instead of this, and increase our exploration and production.
35:38Do we have a timeline on this, and especially on exploration?
35:40Yeah, I'll tell you what, timelines are very simple.
35:43In the oil and gas sector, never go for a timeline.
35:46In 1956, an economist in Shell said oil will peak by 2000.
35:51A lot of people made bad investment decisions.
35:53I can tell you, oil and gas will be required in the Indian economy for many decades to come.
35:58But green hydrogen is taking off, biofuels are taking off, CNG is taking off, CBG is taking off.
36:04I would say, you can come to a point of how much green hydrogen we'll be able to produce.
36:10I think our current target of 5 million metric tons by 2030 is very conservative.
36:15If this tender works well and we replicate it, because all you need is low-priced, clean solar energy and electrolyzers of a big scale.
36:23And we have both.
36:24I think in the coming years, India will not only be one of the largest refining centers, one of the largest consumers,
36:34but one of the most successful stories in green energy transition.
36:39Exact timelines, I don't know, but I think between 2025 and 2035, you will have a very good transition taking place.
36:46So, next 10 years, you think I'm going to be extremely promising?
36:50Yeah, because I'm going by the last 11 years, because we were at 1.5% biofuel blending in 2014.
36:56We're at 20% now.
36:58So, will this go up to 25% or 30%?
37:00I don't know, because the ecosystem has to grow with it.
37:03But green hydrogen, yes, I'm very, very confident that green hydrogen, because green hydrogen we can produce.
37:11It's the cost of production.
37:12I mean, today, the last tender has brought it down from $5.50 per kilo, which was a global price, to less than $4.
37:19If we can now replicate on scale, it can't be below $3, green hydrogen takes off.
37:24Now, globally, where do we stand on ensuring that our diplomacy also helps us get more crude oil, cheaper crude oil, more sustainable crude oil in Russia?
37:36Well, if you've been able to diversify from 27 countries to 40 countries, obviously, your diplomacy has helped somewhere.
37:43But more than the diplomacy, I think it's the way Modi's India has positioned itself, largely because of the very clear, decisive guidance given by the Prime Minister.
37:55You remember there was a time when the Western press was going after us, saying, oh, you're buying from Russia.
38:02Russia is under sanction.
38:03So, I corrected them.
38:05Russia is not under sanction.
38:06Russian oil going to Hungary was exempt.
38:09Russian oil going to China was exempt through a pipeline.
38:12Russian oil going from Sakhalin to Japan was exempt.
38:17And all that we were told to do is buy within a price cap.
38:20Now, that is music to my ears.
38:22I can buy from there and I can buy cheaper also.
38:25So, at no stage have we...
38:26And we were very clear.
38:27The Prime Minister's duty, moral duty, is to his consumers, his citizens.
38:34And today, therefore, we were buying from the Gulf, which is geographically proximate.
38:39We are buying from far-off places like Argentina also.
38:42We are buying a lot from Russia.
38:44And we will buy whoever can give us a particular grade of crude at the most reasonable, most economical price.
38:55We float tenders at the point of importation.
38:58And if you can deliver it at our port for the price at which you tendered, we are happy.
39:03In all of this, let me also quickly switch to another aspect that's making headlines.
39:09The US President, he's talking about, you know, you talk about Prime Minister being very decisive.
39:14The US President talks about him having played a role in bringing a ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
39:21I think everyone on our side has already corrected it.
39:25And yet he continues to say so.
39:27No, no, no. Dad, you're going into another area of discussion.
39:30I'm not going to succumb to the temptation of joining that discussion.
39:34Everyone in a decision-making thing has clarified it in our time that we got a request from the Pakistani side.
39:41In 22 minutes, please remember, 22 minutes, nine of their sites, which are terror sites,
39:49hundreds of kilometers in, Mureetke, Bahawalpur, the eco-security infrastructure, Daito Taver.
39:56The evidence of that devastation is available in the public domain globally through commercially available satellite imagery.
40:03After that, they called us, the DGMO called us, and we responded.
40:07You can have two points of view whether we should have hammered them more or not.
40:10But a democratically elected Prime Minister took the correct decision.
40:14And I think it's there.
40:15And after that, I don't want to get into that rest.
40:19Please do.
40:19No, I will not.
40:20Because you have to, you know, there are responsible ways of dealing with country.
40:25I think the External Affairs Minister made it very clear.
40:28It was a bilateral request received from their DGMO to which our DGMO responded.
40:33And that's the absolute fact.
40:35And yet we have leader of opposition in Lok Sabha, Rahul Gandhi.
40:38You are saying Narendra, Surinder, and Modi said Ji Hazur.
40:43The leader of opposition to whom you referred is one of a kind.
40:48He's literally one of a kind.
40:49I don't think there are too many people like him.
40:52And if you were to compile all the statements he's made all over the years.
40:58So I was being interviewed by someone ki, you know, they're surprised.
41:03I said, what are you surprised at?
41:04That he's the leader of opposition or you're surprised that he speaks that language?
41:07I would like the leader of opposition to concentrate with issues.
41:12If he doesn't have the familiarity, the functioning of his governments in Himachal and Karnatak,
41:19see what all is happening there.
41:21Insofar as listening, he should not make any statement which either has the effect of undermining
41:28the position, official position of the security force,
41:32and at least he should listen to his own party members
41:35who went as part of the all-party delegations outside.
41:39You know, their statements are on record.
41:41You know, why is it so difficult to be a Deshbhakt?
41:45Why do people in India have difficulty with that?
41:48Statements by at least three or four of their leaders come to my mind.
41:52And I think if he only listens to that, he might gain something.
41:55He might learn something.
41:56Sir, by implication, are you saying that Rahul Gandhi is not being a Deshbhakt?
42:00I didn't say that. You said it.
42:03No, I've said he said ki, you said some surrender or something.
42:07What is he talking about?
42:08Has he seen, compared to what his government did in 22 minutes,
42:13the devastation which was visible through satellite imagery,
42:19who asked for the ceasefire there?
42:21The Pakistanis did.
42:22And we responded.
42:23So what is he talking about?
42:25True.
42:27So, and when the U.S. President in a conversation with the Russian President
42:31refers to his role in that ceasefire or in the court of law they mentioned,
42:36you've served in the United States.
42:38Saying it in a court of law has massive ramifications.
42:41Why would they be doing that?
42:42I would tell you one thing.
42:43I think we should keep our discussion to, you know,
42:48the Indian context and the Indian bilateral context there.
42:51Because you might be treading into territory.
42:54There is enough, you know, distraction there going on otherwise.
42:58And you could have a lighthearted conversation on this.
43:01I don't want to have that with you.
43:02Because I'll say, we have made it clear at the level of the External Affairs Minister
43:06that this was bilateral.
43:08By the way, that is consistent with the line we've always taken.
43:12We reject any third party mediation.
43:15And that's been our position for a long time.
43:17What do you make, sir, of Pakistan being on the UN Committee on Counterterrorism?
43:24And also, because you've served as a permanent representative at the United Nations.
43:28You understand the United Nations.
43:30And a country like Pakistan, a terrorist state, is on the counterterrorism chair.
43:37No, no, it's like this.
43:38It's very simple.
43:40Whenever a country is elected as a non-permanent member of the Security Council,
43:44all the committees which are available are handed out, distributed.
43:50The Counterterrorism Committee or the 1973 Committee was earlier only headed by permanent members of the Security Council.
43:56When we came on the Security Council in 2011 and 2012, I was appointed chairman of the 1973 or CTC,
44:05Counterterrorism Committee.
44:07And then I served on that for two years.
44:09Then when we were on the Security Council next time, our then PR, I think, Teeru, Teeru Murthy,
44:17who also served on it for one year, Pakistan has not been appointed chair.
44:21It's one of the vice chairs which has no significance.
44:24Vice chairs. Yeah.
44:26Which has no significance. So, if somebody's tom-tomming that around, you know, they divide the committees.
44:29In any case, Pakistan has to defend itself in terms of, you know, whether TRP is going to be listed, it has to use that.
44:36And many Pakistani entities are proscribed entities. People who live in Pakistan are in the proscribed entities in there.
44:43So, I think the fact that Pakistan has used terror as an instrument of state policy is well known.
44:49So, and they happen to be a member of the UN Security Council for a two year period.
44:55Well, that's a given because it's going by rotation. But I'm absolutely sure that there, the focus, international focus on terrorism has been there.
45:06It will be there even sharper on them.
45:08So, as chair of Taliban committee and vice chair of counter-terrorism committee, it's not a cause for concern.
45:13It's a cause, not at all. Not at all.
45:15It will put the focus on that.
45:17It will. And if they are there in any of these committees as vice chair or something, focus comes more on them.
45:24People catch on to these things.
45:26And the Induswaters Treaty, you know, when Pakistan says if Induswaters Treaty is held in abeyance, that's an act of war, it's a violation.
45:33No, no, no, don't take Pakistani statements. You know, Pakistan's statements and the statements of the honorable leader of the opposition are at the same level of irresponsibility.
45:41These are bilateral agreements between India and Pakistan by the World Bank.
45:48The situation has changed since then. If one commits acts of terror, which is taking away the most fundamental right of all, which is the right to life and killing innocent people, you don't expect us.
45:59PM has made it clear. No, no combination of talks with terror. None.
46:06Unlike the Congress government, a terror attack would sit down on the negotiating table.
46:11No trade with talks, unlike the previous Congress government. And water and blood don't mix.
46:17I think it's absolutely a given. And all these friends of Pakistan or here or elsewhere, they will get the message loud and clear.
46:27Operation Sindur has set a new template, a new benchmark. There's 22 minutes of that operation. By the way, the operation is not over.
46:37It is an ongoing operation. And I would urge caution by those who seek to do this some of loose talk that any act of terror will be viewed as an act of war.
46:48That is the fundamental chain. And the Indian state and the political armed forces will act with a degree of resoluteness, vehemence and without restraint.
47:01And all this business about, oh, X, Y, Z, nuclear, this, that. I think that bluff has been called and it will be called even more effectively if there is misbehavior of that type.
47:11So you're not worried about Field Marshal Asim Munir being at the helm of a pair? What did you say? Field Marshal, what did you say?
47:17Field Marshal Asim Munir. No, I'm not. I'm not worried. No.
47:20And so the nuclear bogey doesn't worry. You see, the point, the point is in this area of social media and people having putting memes or whatever they call around,
47:28a lot of funny stuff going around. But I think people in responsible position should also step back and say that, you know, if they say something which is irresponsible,
47:39it can be magnified in terms of the extent of irresponsibility and in the extent of self-inflicted wounds.
47:47And I think some of these people are going through that just now.
47:50Mr. Puri, for joining me here on this India Today special broadcast. Many thanks.
47:54Thank you. Thank you.
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