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  • 6/2/2025
The Jury Room S01E05
Transcript
00:00In the series you're about to see, we review real murder cases in which the convicted killer
00:11refuses to accept the guilty verdict. Days, weeks, even months of courtroom deliberations
00:17may have been held. Generally, cases whittle down into a handful of key disputed points
00:23of evidence. Our specifically selected jury will review the original trial evidence, alongside
00:29revelatory new evidence or analysis. Will you and the jury find the convicted killer guilty
00:36or perhaps not guilty?
00:39I'm Will Hanrahan. Welcome to the Jury Room. Today we are hearing the case of Ben Gein.
00:48Here's how it all began.
00:52A clutch of incidents sees elderly patients become inexplicably and seriously ill in an
01:02Oxfordshire hospital over two months. There is no link between the respiratory attacks they're
01:10suffering and the illnesses for which they've been admitted. Hospital bosses call in police.
01:15police. They believe they have a killer on the wards. A nurse is arrested and incriminating
01:19evidence is found. Ben Gein is later convicted of murder, but did he do it? The jury room will
01:25debate the case of Ben Gein, cynical killer or suffering a miscarriage of justice.
01:32Ben Gein has been described as the unluckiest man currently serving life for murder in a British
01:50jail. A nurse, he was convicted of killing two patients and of causing grievous bodily harm
01:55to 15 others. Evidence suggested muscle relaxants, anaesthetic and insulin had been variously given
02:01to patients when they should not have been. But did he do it? Campaigners say he has been
02:06found guilty of murders and attacks which actually never happened. They blame his conviction
02:11amongst other things on hospital hysteria caused by earlier revelations about Dr. Harold Shipman,
02:16a mass murderer convicted just a year before. In the jury room, twelve specifically selected
02:21citizens will be asked to revisit the case and consider evidence not heard by the original
02:27jury before reaching their own verdict. Will Ben Gein be found guilty or not guilty of murder?
02:33First, why Ben Gein is in prison for the murder of David Olney and Anthony Bateman and the attacks
02:38on 15 others? This is the case for the prosecution. In it, you will hear analysis by former detective
02:45Colin Sutton.
02:50Orton Hospital in Oxfordshire has an accident and emergency unit. Between December 2003
02:55and February 2004, 18 people very nearly died there. They may have been admitted for relatively
03:01minor conditions, but within hours were fighting for their lives. One of the staff at the hospital
03:07had been on the scene of so many inexplicable occurrences that he'd been given a nickname, one
03:13inspired by Beverly Allett, an infamous killer nurse.
03:18Each time this happens, a nurse called Ben Gein, who's actually nicknamed Ben Allett by his friends,
03:25after Beverly Allett, the nurse who was infamously responsible for causing dissipations, he's present.
03:32Ben Gein is present. Ben Gein is present. Not only present, he's actually listed and recorded
03:38as being a member of the team that worked on all of these, all 18 of these patients.
03:44The patients who seemed to go into sudden decline during the period tended to be elderly, the
03:49sort least able to recover if struck seriously ill.
03:52Ben Gein thinks this is odd. It's beyond coincidence. The police are called and an investigation has
04:01started. Ben Gein is walking into work and is called by one of his supervisors to one side
04:09to come to the office to have the matter discussed. He's wearing a fleece and he, in the pocket of
04:17the fleece, has a syringe. And he is seen to empty that syringe in his pocket. The fleece
04:26is taken away for examination, for scientific examination, and it's found that not only is
04:32the damp patch on the pocket where he discharged the syringe found to be muscle relaxant, but also
04:42in the same pocket there are traces of an anaesthetic. Both of these drugs are drugs which are found
04:50in the body of some of the victims of these respiratory attacks. Interestingly, an anaesthetist
04:57at the hospital says that she is the only person who would be authorised to give these drugs to
05:03that patient at that time, and she didn't. So somebody else must have. After examination, another
05:10highly incriminating fact emerged about the syringe. When that syringe was examined
05:16microscopically, it was found that the needle was worn through multiple use. The practice, almost every
05:25case, almost every case where a syringe is used in the hospital, the practice is the needle is used once and then the
05:31whole thing is put into a sharp spin. Needles don't get worn in hospitals because they're only used once.
05:38So it implies that the syringe that he had in his pocket was one that had been used on multiple occasions in the past.
05:46Ben Gein, a territorial army reserve, is known by colleagues as a thrill seeker regularly on hand to save the day when patients fall ill.
05:5418 patients inexplicably suffer respiratory attacks in a short space of time. Nurse Ben Gein is on duty on each occasion.
06:03When approached by detectives, he empties the contents of a syringe into his pocket. When analysed, the contents of that
06:11syringe match the drugs found in some of the patients who'd fallen ill.
06:16Our jury has selected a foreperson who will be tasked with collating the opinions and delivering the not guilty or guilty verdict,
06:26and it's Janet Cowell, who's a nurse. You didn't know we were going to have this case of Ben Gein the nurse, so why did you select her?
06:33Well, we selected her for her honesty. She's a professional person and an upstanding citizen.
06:40So, she's a professional, she gets the job of being a foreperson on this occasion. Well, okay.
06:45It's going to be your chance at the end of the programme to collate all of the verdicts.
06:48In the meantime, let's review what we've just heard. The prosecution case, you tell me, what have we just heard?
06:5418 patients fall seriously ill, two died, and afterwards we find that it's through controlled drugs that they have been found in the body.
07:09Possibly one or two of the drugs, depending on which ones, could be used after surgery for other reasons.
07:17So, what else? There's certainly a link between the fact that Ben Gein had something and a syringe in his pocket,
07:27and substances found in the bloodstream of patients.
07:30It seems funny, doesn't it, that the syringe has been used multiple times, probably, which doesn't happen in hospital.
07:34And it also seems funny to me that he should have a syringe full of the drug that he's bringing into the hospital,
07:40which I wonder, does he have the drug at home?
07:44And one of his defences was that he'd left the syringe in his pocket.
07:48Yeah, but it's a syringe that has been used multiple times, it wouldn't be.
07:51Yeah, but also, it was in his coat pocket.
07:53Yeah.
07:54You wouldn't have your coat on, would you, when you're...
07:55No, when you're actually in hospital.
07:56When you're actually on the job, so to speak.
07:58I think he was coming into the hospital, wasn't he?
08:00What we've just heard in prosecution terms was he was approached by the police,
08:04and as he was approached on the way to work, a syringe is in his pocket. That's what we know.
08:09And he discharged it as he approached, which is very, very suspicious.
08:13But as well, if he's going to take it back to put it in the sharps box, but it's already been used.
08:18Been used, yeah.
08:19So, you put it in the sharps box every time, so if it's already been used,
08:24why would you be so intent on getting it to the sharps box if you've already used it before?
08:28So, with these attacks that weren't related to the actual illness that the patient was going through,
08:34so that for me is a question mark, just hearing from what we've just heard.
08:39Yeah, and then obviously that there's only, like, one nurse that can obviously give these types of drugs,
08:46and obviously he wasn't one of them, which is obviously another question mark.
08:50The insight into his character from his colleagues was very, very interesting.
08:55This idea of him being a thrill seeker and wanting to be the central role in that drama, refreshing to the rescue.
09:02The fact that he's in the reserves as well, which is a good thing to be,
09:07but, you know, it could go with that as someone who wants drama.
09:12Named as Ben Elliott as well.
09:13Yeah.
09:14So, people associating with that name, why would they do that? It's a bit suspicious.
09:17Yeah, exactly.
09:18You can sometimes get that sort of gallows humour thing there, can't you?
09:21Yes.
09:22Like, oh, something always happens when he's around, so we can have a funny nickname.
09:27You know, two or three, but 18, as you said.
09:31I think we should take that into consideration because it could be the fact that
09:35not convicting a man before we've gone through all the evidence,
09:38but it could be the case of him applying these drugs to then come and save the day.
09:42Yes, that's what I think it is.
09:43And that's what he's still seeking, to be the hero.
09:44Yeah.
09:45He wants to be the hero.
09:46He didn't mean to kill them.
09:47No.
09:48He just wanted to be there to resuscitate them.
09:49Yeah.
09:50And maybe there was two that were just healed to do that.
09:52Those type of drugs wouldn't have resuscitated anybody.
09:54They're the type that put people to sleep.
09:57But I think the suggestion is that if you put them to sleep,
10:00and then the respiration is pressed, you can come as the avenging hero
10:04to save the day.
10:05Yeah.
10:06And that was the thrill-seeker allegation that was made.
10:08He obviously assumed that he could save them all.
10:10That's what...
10:11Yeah, I don't think he intended on actually killing...
10:13He didn't saw himself as that hero.
10:14Yeah.
10:15So if he's not intending on killing them,
10:16can it then be classed as murder?
10:17Is it then not classed as manslaughter?
10:19No, no, still...
10:20I would still say it classed as murder,
10:22because he still applied...
10:23He still gave the drugs, knowing he could kill them.
10:25That it possibly could.
10:26Yeah.
10:27It's a reckless act that he's done.
10:29Yeah.
10:30My thoughts were, when was he named Ben Allis?
10:33Was it...
10:34Was shortly after.
10:35Sorry, before...
10:36Or after.
10:37...these people began...
10:38Yeah.
10:39...suffering respiratory problems.
10:41Um...
10:42But...
10:43And how has he got hold of the drugs?
10:46Because drugs...
10:47Controlled drugs are controlled.
10:48He's supposed to be able to sign them out.
10:50Janet, you're a nurse.
10:51Yeah, they are controlled drugs,
10:53and it takes two qualified nurses,
10:57or it would have done in 2003-04,
11:00to check the drug,
11:02so that the second nurse is checking
11:04that that is accurate for that particular patient.
11:07They would then take it to the patient,
11:10er, and give it to the patient.
11:12In the...
11:13In the trial, the...
11:14And I'll finish on this,
11:15because I think we've got the prosecution case,
11:16but in the trial,
11:17the prosecution barrister asked Ben Gean
11:20do you accept that these drugs
11:23have been applied to the patients?
11:24And he did accept that these drugs
11:27have been applied to the patients.
11:28The defence...
11:29We'll talk to that point
11:30in the next part of our programme,
11:31when we'll...
11:32We will hear the case
11:33for the defence of Ben Gean.
11:50Welcome back to the Jury Room.
11:55For those who have not spent time on a jury,
11:57or do not know the rules,
11:59if a jury believes someone is guilty
12:01by a majority of ten to two or more,
12:03then a guilty verdict can be offered.
12:05We have heard a summary
12:07of the prosecution case against Ben Gean.
12:09Now for the defence,
12:11analysed by barrister Matthew Stanbury.
12:13Ben Gean explained away his propensity
12:17to be at the scene of war dramas,
12:19specifically when patients
12:20became dangerously ill,
12:21by reminding the jury of his character.
12:25He was not the sort
12:26to run away from a crisis.
12:28The defence said that the point,
12:30the fact that Ben Gean
12:31had been over-enthusiastic,
12:33if he had been over-enthusiastic,
12:34was a point in his favour,
12:36not against him.
12:37The fact that he was a diligent nurse,
12:39somebody who wanted to help out,
12:40the defence said,
12:41was a point to his credit.
12:43Then there was the discovery
12:44of a syringe in his pocket.
12:46Ben Gean argued
12:47that he thought he might get into trouble
12:49if found with a syringe full of medication.
12:51The defence relied on the fact
12:53that he'd been disciplined
12:55as a point in his pocket.
12:56Ben Gean argued
12:57that he thought he might get into trouble
12:59if found with a syringe full of medication.
13:01The defence relied on the fact
13:03as a point in his defence,
13:05because he said
13:06he'd taken the syringe home by accident,
13:08he'd carried the syringe in his fleece
13:10in case it was needed at work,
13:12and he discharged the contents of the syringe,
13:14not because he was panicking,
13:16because he'd been rumbled,
13:17but rather because he'd been disciplined
13:19for being over-enthusiastic before.
13:21He knew how it might look,
13:23and therefore he panicked
13:25and discharged the contents of the syringe.
13:27Campaigners have argued
13:28that Nurse Gean's story about the syringe
13:30was backed up by his girlfriend,
13:32also a nurse,
13:33who lived with him on site.
13:34She'd seen the syringe
13:35and told Ben to return it
13:37to the so-called sharp box
13:38at the hospital
13:39where discarded objects had placed.
13:41The defence also argued
13:43that the prosecution was mistaken
13:44to suggest that all patients
13:46had been wrongly or maliciously
13:47given a dose of medication.
13:49In not all of the cases
13:50could the prosecution prove
13:51that muscle relaxants had been administered.
13:53They were,
13:54they invited an inference to be drawn
13:56that that was the case,
13:57but it was only in a limited number of cases
13:59that they were able to prove
14:00that muscle relaxants had been administered,
14:02where in fact it shouldn't have been.
14:05One feature of the case
14:07was that under cross-examination,
14:09questions from the prosecution barrister,
14:11Ben Gean accepted at the trial
14:13that somebody must have administered illicit drugs
14:18or drugs that weren't necessary to these patients
14:20and he accepted that
14:21and the prosecution said,
14:22well, look, he's an experienced nurse,
14:24he should know,
14:25but the defence would say
14:27it's not for him to say whether that's happened.
14:30His case is, I didn't do it.
14:31It's not for him to offer an explanation
14:33as to what's happened.
14:34His case is, it wasn't me
14:36and the fact that he made that concession at trial,
14:38the fact that he accepted or appeared to accept
14:42that somebody must have administered it,
14:44is neither here nor there.
14:46It's what the experts say that matters.
14:48He's not an expert.
14:53Now we've heard the two sides of the Ben Gean case,
14:56the jury will review the defence points
14:58we heard from the prosecution earlier.
15:00What have we heard in Ben Gean's defence?
15:03Can I ask Janet,
15:05when you are administering a drug,
15:10do you not do it on a case-by-case basis?
15:13Yeah.
15:14So you wouldn't have an extra one just in your pocket,
15:16just in case?
15:17No, no.
15:18Specially controlled drugs.
15:19All the drugs in a hospital situation are prescribed.
15:22Specifically for that particular person?
15:24Yes, specifically,
15:25and that patient's got a cardex with that particular drug on it.
15:29With their date of birth, with their name, you have to...
15:31That's right, the dose,
15:32what time it should be given, et cetera.
15:34So the fact that it's got...
15:35If it's a controlled drug,
15:36it takes two qualified nurses
15:39to go to the drug cupboard,
15:41usually after the general drug round,
15:44check those drugs out to make sure
15:46that that is the correct dose
15:49and that that is what's written up
15:51exactly for that patient.
15:53Both then go and give it to the patient,
15:56checking the patient.
15:57Yes, on his own, actually administering it
15:59and he'd never have one in his pocket.
16:00Not in 2003, 2004.
16:02And is that the same in A&E?
16:04Because this was all in A&E, wasn't it?
16:06Uh-huh.
16:07So that would be the same procedure?
16:08Yes, that's the same for a controlled drug.
16:10Right.
16:11And also, I wouldn't mind asking Janet,
16:12the drugs that was found on the suspect,
16:15they're not a generic drug such as antibiotics
16:18that he may, if he was a thrill seeker,
16:20could use, you know, generically around the hospital
16:22to save somebody.
16:23They're a specific drug that needs...
16:25They're quite lethal drugs.
16:27Could he not have just made a mistake?
16:30Like, long hours, long shifts?
16:33I mean, he could have,
16:35but when you look,
16:36there was another 17 or 18 people
16:38that had these drugs in their system.
16:40Well, there wasn't.
16:41This is what the defence is saying,
16:43that it's actually a limited number of people
16:46that were found with these drugs in there.
16:49They had respiratory issues,
16:52but not all of them had those drugs present.
16:55In several cases,
16:56there was drugs that shouldn't have been there
16:58and that coincided with the drug
17:00that was found in his pocket,
17:02so we know that.
17:03What do you think of his innocent reason
17:05for having the syringe in his pocket?
17:07It's kind of fair enough, actually.
17:09If you've been in trouble for,
17:11you know, being overzealous
17:13and then you go into work
17:15with this syringe full of stuff,
17:17you might think,
17:18oh, my God, I'm going to lose my job.
17:19OK, I'm just going to have to get rid,
17:21you know?
17:22I'm going to panic.
17:23Yeah, he might have actually panicked.
17:24But the thing is,
17:25the syringe was actually used multiple times.
17:27Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
17:28So how could that just be a mistake?
17:29I mean, I thought the same as you,
17:30but it's the fact that it's been used multiple times
17:32and there was multiple people that were ill
17:34and the fact that this drug doesn't seem to...
17:36It's not like a generic drug.
17:37It's not going to help everybody.
17:39It's not going to help anybody.
17:40He's given it to other people.
17:42We don't...
17:43He could have taken it for somebody else
17:45out of the hospital.
17:46You wouldn't have it in your pocket.
17:48That's what I can't believe.
17:49He's still done something very wrong
17:51by taking the syringe
17:52that he's obviously used many times.
17:55But he's that murder.
17:56That's what we...
17:57Wasn't there traces of the drugs on his jacket?
18:01So...
18:02There was anaesthetics found.
18:03So he's disposed of it.
18:05And there were other drugs as well.
18:06Yeah, there's anaesthetics found in there,
18:07which he's not got...
18:08I mean, why would you dispose any drug
18:10or anything in your pocket?
18:11Just because he...
18:12Well, what he says was
18:13because he felt...
18:14He felt he was going to probably be dismissed
18:15because he's took home syringes before.
18:17But also, there's another way of looking at it
18:19that he was guilty and he wanted to...
18:20Yeah, like, does he have a guilty conscience?
18:22His girlfriend...
18:23The defence said his girlfriend did just...
18:25Did support his story
18:26that he'd gone home with it
18:27and she'd said...
18:28Not the fact that he did go home with it.
18:29Take it back.
18:30He seems to be getting rid of it here.
18:31It doesn't mean he's innocent as well.
18:32He might have gone home with it
18:33because he wanted to use it again.
18:35Because he's obviously...
18:36It's obviously been used multiple times before.
18:37But we've also got that his...
18:38One of his excuses, sorry,
18:39was that the syringe was needed...
18:41The syringe might be needed at work.
18:43I mean...
18:44We all know that.
18:45We all know it's not going to be used again.
18:47That's it.
18:48That's it.
18:49Exactly.
18:50I think we're reading into the fact
18:51that we were just taken for granted
18:53that it would have been reused
18:55again and again at work.
18:56He took it home with him.
18:58He may have been using it at home.
19:00We don't...
19:01We don't know.
19:02There might have been other reasons.
19:03Using it is...
19:04You know, he's...
19:05He wasn't known as a known stalwart user.
19:06There wasn't...
19:07Incident I know had used in them.
19:08We don't have that.
19:09But it's not...
19:10It's not like...
19:11He's using muscle relactors,
19:12and so it's not...
19:13It might not have been for him.
19:14It might have been a nurse to accidentally
19:15have a syringe full of stuff
19:16and take it home in their pocket.
19:17No, no.
19:18Not with the stringent controls on the drugs.
19:20Yeah.
19:21It's not really going to happen,
19:22is it, generally, in your opinion?
19:23And it was his coat pocket.
19:24It wasn't...
19:25Yeah, it wasn't even his work.
19:26He's going to be wearing his coat
19:27before he gets to work anyway.
19:28No, but he's going to have taken it home
19:29to begin with, in the pocket.
19:31It was working in.
19:32Because he's getting into his coat
19:33probably presuming he's going to go home
19:34and wash that coat
19:35before anyone's found evidence.
19:37But surely...
19:38If you're going to...
19:39If you're going to...
19:40If you're going to put these drugs into people,
19:42why would you use the same thing
19:44over and over again?
19:45Wouldn't you...
19:46Wouldn't you try and hide the evidence
19:48and just tuck it in the sharps' box?
19:49Wouldn't you be more diligent?
19:51That's what he's trying to say.
19:53Why would you consistently use the same...
19:55But as Jenny said,
19:56the drugs that was found on him,
19:58it's not...
19:59It's not, like, something you'd necessarily use
20:01to help people.
20:02Or you wouldn't carry it anywhere, aren't you?
20:03But that's...
20:04That was his intentions, though, right?
20:05So, right.
20:06We don't know.
20:07It could have been pain relief.
20:08We don't know.
20:09He's saying...
20:10He's never...
20:11He's still wrong.
20:12He's not admitting to ever administrating any drugs.
20:13He's just saying he's in the place at the right time.
20:15I just don't think it's...
20:16Given another reason for having...
20:18Having taken that home or used it for any other...
20:20He's not saying why he's used it.
20:22He took that home,
20:23he came in to work with it and dispelled it.
20:26That's all we know.
20:27If it was a case of maybe using it on himself...
20:29You've got to follow certain practices as a nurse
20:32and that in itself, just going home with...
20:35He's guilty of malpractice,
20:36but is he guilty of murder or purposefully doing this?
20:39But you have to have a reason for taking that particular drug.
20:42You've got to have a reason.
20:43I'm having this drug to give to this person,
20:45so where was that person he was going to give that drug to?
20:47If you were trying to do something bad to patients,
20:52it would be so much easier just to get rid of the evidence at work.
20:55Yeah.
20:56But to take a syringe for home and then bring it back into work,
21:00that seems like a really stupid thing to do.
21:02But at the same time,
21:03where's the explanation for the use of the needle?
21:06Because it...
21:07It has to be in there.
21:08It's not...
21:09It's not for him to...
21:10Has he took a used needle?
21:11Or, you know, where's the expansion for that?
21:13It's not for him to, like the defence barrister said,
21:16it's not for him to say,
21:18prove what fear he could have been.
21:21It's for him to say...
21:22There's multiple people that have been affected,
21:24not necessarily by the same drug he was carrying at the time,
21:26but they've been affected
21:27and this needle's been used multiple times.
21:28And that's not a practice.
21:30I feel like if it's not...
21:31We don't know how many people out of those 18 people
21:35were actually injected with this stuff.
21:38But we do know on the fleece that he was wearing,
21:41the fluids...
21:42There were several fluids in the pockets.
21:45There was one for the one that had been discharged
21:47and in the other pocket,
21:48some other fluids that had also been used.
21:50Is there enough people, though, to say,
21:51this is a pattern, this guy is doing this...
21:54So I'm going to stop you,
21:55that's getting hot in the jury room.
21:57I think we've got the defence case
22:00and we'll be debating that
22:02as we go on throughout the programme
22:04and then our jury reaches its verdict.
22:06But we now know the defence case
22:08and it was a case which was dismissed by the original jury
22:11because they found him guilty of the murder of two patients
22:14and guilty of grievous bodily harm against 15 other patients.
22:18The final, the 18th patient, he was found not guilty on.
22:22But Ben Gein supporters campaigned.
22:25They sought an appeal.
22:26Did he get one?
22:27We'll find out after the break.
22:44Welcome back to the jury room.
22:45Ben Gein was convicted by a jury.
22:47They'd heard both sides of the case,
22:48weighed up the evidence, found him guilty.
22:50Ben Gein was granted an appeal in 2009.
22:54That appeal was dismissed.
22:56Judges did not accept the new expert evidence.
22:59However, the campaign continues on behalf of Ben Gein
23:03and yet more new evidence, yet to be considered at appeal,
23:06but revealed here in the jury room, has emerged.
23:09According to the defence, the prosecution's case at trial relied heavily
23:19on statistics about the number of incidents at Horton Hospital.
23:22A Cambridge University academic came forward to say
23:24that he felt the conclusions drawn from the statistical analysis
23:28were not sound.
23:29The cluster of cases may not have been so unusual.
23:33Whilst another statistical expert went further,
23:35he said he would actually expect to see such a cluster of cases
23:39from time to time.
23:42There's a number of eminent statisticians
23:44who've been asked to give opinions on this case
23:46and the suggestion at trial was that this was a significant
23:51or unusual number of occurrences of respiratory attack.
23:55But the suggestion from the experts, the statisticians,
23:58the medical experts now, is that it wasn't unusual
24:02and that, in fact, one would expect, perhaps even as frequently
24:07as once a year, for there to be this type of spate of attacks
24:13within a hospital, in other words, to have a number of people
24:16at any one time who've come in for other ailments,
24:19a broken leg, whatever it might be,
24:21but for those people to contract a respiratory illness
24:25whilst in the hospital.
24:27The statistic quoted by the prosecution suggests it is all but impossible
24:32that patients could be attacked and be injured or die
24:36without there being a deliberate attacker in the equation.
24:39But these sort of statistics have been proved unreliable in other cases.
24:44There was a similar case involving a different type of illness,
24:48involving cot deaths in the Netherlands,
24:50where the prosecution had relied upon the number of incidents
24:54as being significant, and similarly to this case,
24:57the defence were able to bring forward expert evidence
25:00to say that, in fact, this wasn't statistically significant,
25:03and, in fact, her appeal was allowed and she was subsequently released.
25:08One point that's often made is that the criminal courts aren't well equipped
25:12to deal with statistical issues,
25:14and that's likely to be one of the criticisms that's made in this case.
25:18The Crown Court will often proceed on the basis that,
25:21well, it must be significant, but that actually statisticians would say
25:25that the courts are simply ill-equipped to deal with those types of issues.
25:29Alongside this new analysis of the statistics,
25:32the defence argued that the age of the patients affected is worth noting.
25:36That's almost inevitably the case, that more elderly patients
25:39are going to be more vulnerable to these things,
25:41going into a hospital environment where there are more infections,
25:43they're more susceptible to it.
25:45So that certainly, almost certainly, would form part of Ben Gein's case
25:49for saying, look, this just wasn't significant.
25:52The fact that 18 people had respiratory illness at the same time
25:57was, in one sense, to be expected.
25:59So the defence case on appeal would be this was all relied upon at trial.
26:05The case presented to the jury was that this was significant.
26:08That case was wrong.
26:10The jury should not have been, had the case presented in that way.
26:13Had the jury known that this wasn't significant,
26:17then the prosecution case became very much weaker.
26:22Ben Gein may not ever have come to the attention of the police,
26:25but for the fact that management at Horton Hospital itself felt they had detected
26:30an unusual pattern of cases.
26:32But sensitivities were heightened by another set of attacks,
26:35by a medic, a year earlier.
26:37The Ben Gein case very much came in the aftermath of the Harold Shipman case,
26:41when, understandably, health authorities became very concerned
26:45and very alert to make sure that these sorts of things weren't going to happen again.
26:50And the defence would say that the hysteria that arose out of that necessary cautiousness
26:57has led to something being read in, in this case, that simply wasn't there,
27:02that that understandable cautiousness became hysteria,
27:06that the police perhaps would not have been called in, should not have been called in,
27:11and that they've been looking for something, looking for a crime that in fact never happened.
27:16The prosecution response to the new interpretation of the statistical evidence was to dismiss it.
27:25According to the new analysis, the police should never have been called in,
27:28because nothing unusual had happened.
27:30But that's only half of the case offered by the prosecution.
27:40According to the new analysis, the police should never have been called in,
27:43because nothing unusual had happened.
27:45But that is only some of the evidence offered by the prosecution.
27:49What's happened here is that the statistics have caused somebody to flag up
27:55that there might be a problem and ask for an investigation.
27:58Whether or not those statistics are borne out as being correct or whether they're arguable
28:04doesn't affect the evidence that was found once that investigation was started.
28:09But the statistical experts insist that given the number of patients using hospitals in the UK,
28:14it is probable that there'd be one cluster a year of cases like that which appeared at Horton.
28:20Put simply, 18 people might indeed suffer respiratory attacks over two months in a hospital in Britain,
28:26and it happened to be at Horton General.
28:28While the statistics out of context may say that actually these respiratory arrests aren't that common,
28:36you'd expect one a year, that doesn't explain the statistical improbability of the same nurse
28:46happening to be on duty each time one of those happens.
28:50It becomes too much of a coincidence, in my view, that somebody would just happen to be present at all these events
29:00if he didn't have anything to do with it.
29:02The final defence point was about a Dutch nurse convicted after the discovery that she alone was on shift when seven children had died.
29:09She's since been released because, statistically, it has been proved that such a cluster of cases can happen naturally.
29:16Again, a point dismissed by the prosecution.
29:19Where the statistics were the main plank of the investigation, the main plank of the prosecution evidence upon which she was convicted,
29:26that may be understandable.
29:28Here it isn't.
29:29The statistics were the means to make the inquiry be sought.
29:34They were what got the authorities interested or worried about this.
29:39But the investigation then proved that Ben Gein had the motive, he had the equipment, he had the opportunity to commit these crimes.
29:48And I think it's a completely safe conclusion to come to that he committed them.
29:53So, that's the new evidence which Ben Gein's campaign has been presenting with and say that they say means he should have yet another appeal.
30:07Let's get our head around what they're saying, shall we?
30:10And also what Colin Sutton has said in response to that.
30:13First of all, this point about statistics, it could have happened anyway.
30:17Belle, any thoughts?
30:19I just find it inconceivable.
30:22I mean, I know that statistics are very important, but there being this cluster at this little hospital in the A&E,
30:30and again with the guy always being there, I just don't see it.
30:35It just doesn't stack up in my imagination as a likely possibility.
30:40If there was a cluster, it does happen, but if the cluster was there in that hospital,
30:47you would think there would be other clusters at the same time in different areas as well, usually.
30:55But also the fact that he was there, you can have the cluster and, you know, you could accept that,
31:02but the fact that he was on shift for the whole of the cluster then makes the cluster more suspicious, doesn't it?
31:09If it was just the cluster, then...?
31:11There is a small possibility this may happen once a year.
31:13But then how much more do you need to stretch? There's a possibility this may happen.
31:17There's a possibility this may happen and the same nurse will be there each time.
31:19There's a possibility this nurse may be found with some drugs discarded in their pocket with a, you know,
31:24with a syringe that's been used multiple times.
31:26It's just how many, how much more do they need to stretch here?
31:30On there I noticed it was midazolam that was used and midazolam is an anaesthetic and yet I cannot see an anaesthetic being used anywhere else apart from the anaesthetic department.
31:46And it was used, that's, you know, that's the allegation anyway.
31:49What do you mean?
31:50That was the trace in the pocket, was an anaesthetic, wasn't it?
31:53Yes.
31:54So what do we make of this alternative theory that everybody was hysterical because of what had happened with Harold Shipman?
31:59But is means testing a bad thing? You know, if we are means testing because there are cases of things, of anything, means testing surely is a good thing to do wherever you are.
32:10The fact that they were on high alert, maybe it was a good reason that they were on high alert because maybe they wouldn't have caught it.
32:16I think they definitely was on high alert but I just think that's, I think that's stretching it even more as a reason to protest his innocence.
32:24Just because of everything else that matches, that goes against him.
32:27There's not a lot that goes, that's going for him at the moment.
32:30I mean, he's disregarding the needle. You'd surely, if you knew about these things that was happening, you'd probably quite easily lose your job,
32:38rather than be convicted.
32:40As we said, it's very unlikely that you would accidentally take a needle that had been used multiple times full of drugs
32:46and then take it and then put it in your pocket to bring it back.
32:48Yeah.
32:49That is very unlikely, unless there was a reason for it, an untoward reason, that you needed to maybe take the...
32:54You'd discard it at home, wouldn't you?
32:55Get it off of the hospital premises and came and someone checked a locker because he did have a nickname.
32:59Are we clear that we have the defence case and the rebuttal?
33:02And are we clear that we have the campaigner's evidence in front of you for you to debate in part four as you reach your verdict?
33:07That's all for them to discuss. What will they decide? Find out in a few minutes.
33:11Welcome back to the jury room. It's very nearly time for our verdict. Before we hear it, let's have a summary of the Ben Gein case, from the perspectives of the prosecution and the defence.
33:3616 people very nearly died and two did after being admitted to an accident and emergency unit.
33:45They all suffered respiratory attacks despite such a condition being unlikely.
33:49Hospital management called in the police. Nurse Ben Gein had been on shift throughout the period and had attended to the 18 patients.
33:57He was found walking into work with a substance found in the bloodstreams of some of those attacked.
34:02When approached, he tried to get rid of the incriminating evidence.
34:06His defence team originally argued that he was a good nurse who would instinctively want to help if a patient's condition worsened.
34:12That's why he was around so much. And they gave what they felt were good reasons for having a syringe on him and for trying to dispose of its contents.
34:21Found guilty and having lost an appeal, Ben Gein is now using the evidence of statistical experts which undermine the prosecution claim that what had happened at the hospital was unusual.
34:32Time, then, for our jury to reach their verdict. For a person, Janet, it's over to you.
34:41It's an unusual case that 18 people can get clusters of respiratory attacks, especially if this was the winter.
34:54Old people. However, I think that he should never have been found with that drug in his pocket at all.
35:05OK. So, debate. If it had been drawn up properly.
35:07One of the defences was that he was a very keen nurse and always very keen to help, but the shift pattern would have been arranged in advance.
35:15Yeah. I'm presuming you have a shift pattern that rolls on from month to month to month, so...
35:21So, you think he didn't volunteer on your shift? So, you could not volunteer and be there, right? No.
35:25No. You have to be on shift to be able to... So, that defends...
35:29Very often, like, I've spent a lot of time as a patient in the NHS and very often, you know, you have your normal nurses and then they come back in and do bank nurse shifts
35:38because there is not enough people in the NHS. And I would defend the NHS until the day I die because I think it's brilliant.
35:44But, you know, people are people. They're fallible. They can make mistakes. They're not... I don't...
35:48People would be at home and then called in for the respiratory... Well, you might be.
35:52But that's something that happens. No, but I think the respiratory happened while he was there.
35:56Yeah. It wasn't that it happened and then he got called in for it.
36:00Yeah, but he would have already been on that shift. So, he could have... It's not like he's been called in voluntarily.
36:07He's already there. So, that defence to me just doesn't stack up at all. It's quite...
36:12It's a coincidence that he was there on the 18 occasions.
36:16But not all those 18 occasions, as we've said, those people had those drugs in their system.
36:22And not all of them. It's only some of them.
36:25Having a syringe which has been used last time in your fleece and then...
36:30Did he see a police car? He was going to be questioned.
36:33So, he discharged it into his pocket, which is a really weird thing to do.
36:36I mean, would it not be more intelligent to throw it into a bush?
36:39Why would you do that? I think that's a massive question mark in my mind.
36:42If you had a syringe on you, why would you...
36:46I mean, what we do know is he had a syringe that is nearly impossible to get hold of with the drugs in to take home,
36:53which is nearly impossible according to the nurse here.
36:56He then came back into the hospital with it in the theatre.
36:59And when he was approached, he then dispelled it, which is, again, a bit daft.
37:03I think that makes you look suspicious.
37:05But that isn't really... Why would he have it?
37:07What we're not sure of is how he got those drugs,
37:10whether it was somebody else that may have left it
37:13or whether he actually went to get the drugs to intentionally hurt these people.
37:17This is what my hang-up is.
37:19In my mind, I just think that he shouldn't have had those drugs anyway.
37:22I think that's one major point.
37:24So he shouldn't have had those drugs on him at all.
37:27He shouldn't have had access to them.
37:28Unless he was planning a malicious act.
37:30It's not necessary, but we can't assume that.
37:33But all we can go on is that he had those.
37:35And it's not just the one drug, either.
37:37It's not just the one drug that was found.
37:38It seems very likely that the drugs that was found
37:40are traces in his pocket with a needle that's been used multiple times.
37:43That would be very helpful to any patient.
37:45Why would it only be some people?
37:46That's the fact there. It wouldn't be very useful.
37:48If he was an adrenaline seeker, it's not like he's going to save somebody
37:52with the drugs that was found with a needle that's been used multiple times.
37:55They're not resuscitating. It's not adrenaline or something like that.
37:58What did we make as a girlfriend?
38:00Because she's a nurse.
38:01So she finds out that he's got this syringe in his pocket.
38:04She must have freaked out.
38:06So if she knows nothing about what, supposing he is guilty, supposing he is,
38:11she doesn't know anything about it.
38:12She says, oh, my God, you've got to, you should take that back.
38:15Well, in that case, if he's made a genuine mistake,
38:19he'd just take it back, would he?
38:22He wouldn't discharge it into his clothing.
38:24But then he's already, we can't forget that he's already been in trouble
38:28and he's already had a disciplined reaction.
38:31So, you don't think straight, you know, you don't think straight when you panic.
38:35If it was a mistake, as a nurse, would you not,
38:37I know maybe we're thinking along the lines of him covering his back,
38:40would you not discard that, would you discard that drug somewhere?
38:44If he was coming back to do the same thing to other people
38:48and then he saw these detectives,
38:51why would he dispel it in his pocket, keep it in his pocket?
38:55Why wouldn't he just love it? Why wouldn't he just...
38:57What's to say he didn't have the chance to do it?
38:59What's to say that somebody's approached him?
39:01The only thing he can do is just push it through his jacket.
39:05I know that's only an assumption where he can only use you,
39:07but that's one of the possible reasons.
39:09He panicked and just got rid of the flu.
39:11If he was involved in them two murders,
39:13I think I'm right to believe that the third murder makes you a serial murder,
39:16a serial killer.
39:18So, maybe they all have their own traits.
39:20Maybe he just wanted, he didn't want to lose that needle.
39:22Maybe that's a big thing to him,
39:24to keep using the same needle to...
39:25I don't think he wants...
39:26I don't think he's actually...
39:27I don't think he actually wants to kill him.
39:28I think he wants to be the saviour.
39:29Ben, is that your point?
39:30A trophy needle?
39:31I mean, I know...
39:32I don't know originally if...
39:33Yeah, if he was guilty,
39:34maybe he didn't want to originally kill people,
39:36he wanted to be the hero.
39:37With regard to the statistics as well,
39:39like...
39:40I know they've said that it's statistically possible
39:43that you have this cluster,
39:44but 18 seems like a big cluster to me.
39:47Seven...
39:48Hmm, maybe.
39:49An emergency department in itself,
39:51it's an emergency department,
39:52and when you've got some sort of, you know,
39:55a bug going round or whatever it is,
39:57like you say, it is going to happen in clusters.
39:59Yeah.
40:00The issue that I think most people are having
40:01is the fact that he was on every single one.
40:03Absolutely.
40:04In this day and age where nurses are on
40:06practically 24 hours a day, aren't they?
40:08I mean, would it be likely that...
40:10Lots of nurses would have been on the same.
40:13Is there anyone else?
40:14I think it may be like, in this day and age,
40:16with the shortcomings in NHS staff-wise,
40:18that you could be involved in every single case.
40:20I think, yeah, that is likely,
40:22but it's just everything else together.
40:24It's the syringe...
40:25There's still this syringe in his pocket
40:26that I'm having an issue with.
40:27Well, if somebody wants to, you know,
40:29a professional have something that's been used,
40:31then why would they have them drugs in there?
40:33They just don't make any sense.
40:34It's also at the same hospital,
40:35not the next hospital or the next hospital,
40:36because ambulances, if it's busy,
40:38will go wherever they go to A&E,
40:39but it is just at that hospital.
40:41Are you interested in the Dutch case at all?
40:43I mean, you know,
40:45there was a cluster of cot deaths,
40:49and a woman was convicted for them
40:52and then found innocent, so...
40:54Cot deaths, though, I mean,
40:55there's a lot of research done about cot death.
40:58That was based on statistics...
41:00Oh, there's seven as well.
41:02I mean, that was based on statistics
41:03that they're trying to base this case on,
41:05but this case, there's so many other...
41:06It's got drugs in it.
41:07There's all the other bits on it.
41:08There's all the other bits on it.
41:09And the fact that he actually had these different drugs
41:11found in his outdoor coat.
41:13And everything else that's happened after that.
41:14Not in his inside jacket,
41:15not in his work jacket,
41:16but it was in his outdoor coat,
41:18his personal coat.
41:19As it was snowballed into coincidence
41:20after coincidence after coincidence.
41:22I feel like there's just maybe one or two things.
41:25It's not like a huge number of different coincidences.
41:29It's a guy that had a needle.
41:31He brought it back to work.
41:32He got scared.
41:33He dispelled it.
41:34We don't...
41:35There's not a huge pattern.
41:36There's only some of the people that had this drug that he had.
41:41Can I help you there, Tracey, on that point?
41:43Some of the drugs that...
41:45Like insulin, for example,
41:46disappears from the bloodstream after 24 hours.
41:48Yes.
41:49And so the anomaly is the respiratory attacks.
41:53And then the 18 respiratory attacks...
41:55Some of these patients had dislocated shoulders,
41:58broken ankle, but they get a respiratory attack.
42:01And then in a handful, drugs are found.
42:04If that helps you.
42:05He lives on the side with his girlfriend,
42:07who's also a nurse.
42:08So they live on the side.
42:10So it's...
42:11Oh, I forgot...
42:12I've got the syringe in my pocket.
42:14It takes two minutes or five minutes
42:17to find a sharp spin in the hospital.
42:20Especially in...
42:21Probably the biggest two things is...
42:23The drugs that have been found in different situations
42:26has been found in his pocket.
42:28And he has a syringe which has been used multiple times.
42:30I think that's massive.
42:31If he wanted to be the big, better person
42:35and save this person
42:37who has got respiratory depression through the midazolam,
42:42he would have to have the antidote,
42:45which would be Narcon,
42:47which is another drug,
42:49in order to...
42:50Bring him round.
42:51Bring him round.
42:52That's big, yeah.
42:53Bring that person back round.
42:55Burning points that you want to make?
42:56Make him now?
42:57Because we're running out of time?
42:58He's been in bother from his senior department.
43:04He's now trying to make...
43:06Look, I'm indispensable
43:08by saving all these respiratory problems
43:11and things like that.
43:12Two of them he didn't save.
43:15A mistake, reckless as to what he did
43:18by administering the drugs in the first place.
43:21OK, that's it.
43:22The time is up.
43:23It's time for you to come to your verdict.
43:25So I'm going to ask Janet, our foreperson,
43:27to collate all the guilty and not guilty verdicts
43:29as we go around to hear what our jury believe.
43:33Rin, do you find Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
43:38There's too many coincidences
43:40and I find him guilty.
43:41He shouldn't have had those drugs in his pocket.
43:43He shouldn't have taken them away but guilty.
43:45Guilty.
43:46Let's move along the line.
43:47Group it, what do you think?
43:48Guilty or not guilty in the case of Ben Gein?
43:52Yeah, I'll find him guilty.
43:54Let's swap to the other side of the jury
43:55and see if we're getting a different message.
43:57Kerry, to you.
43:58A carer, somebody whose profession it is to look after others.
44:03Do you find Nurse Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
44:06Guilty.
44:08Tracy, also somebody who helps in the work that you do.
44:12Do you find Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
44:15I think he's guilty, yeah.
44:18Yeah.
44:19Trevor, former fireman, used to attending emergency services
44:23and this all happened in and around an accident in emergency unit.
44:26Ben Gein, for you, guilty or not guilty?
44:29Guilty.
44:31Let's pop back over to Nicole.
44:33Nicole, do you find Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
44:37Guilty.
44:38Ben, next to you.
44:40Do you find Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
44:45Guilty.
44:46Let's swap back now over to Adrian.
44:48Adrian, a backup artist.
44:50Do you find Nurse Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
44:53Guilty.
44:54And Jess, who tells us she spent a long time at the NHS
44:58and is experienced in that sort of care that she's...
45:01We've been hearing about.
45:03Do you find Nurse Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
45:07Guilty.
45:09Kim, next to Jess.
45:11Again, a former carer.
45:12Do you find Nurse Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
45:17Guilty.
45:18Let's move along to our next side of the jury,
45:22to Belle Mooney, a columnist.
45:24Do you find Nurse Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
45:27Guilty.
45:28And our foreperson, a nurse herself, Janet,
45:30do you find Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
45:33Guilty.
45:35Janet, I'm going to ask you to stand
45:36to return the verdict of our jury.
45:39Do you find Nurse Ben Gein guilty or not guilty?
45:43Guilty.
45:45Thank you very much to our members of the jury.
45:51This has been a four-television trial
45:53based on the facts and the evidence established
45:55in the case against Nurse Ben Gein.
45:57The jurors are members of the public.
45:59Ben Gein is currently serving life for the murder of two people
46:02but protests his innocence.
46:04What's your verdict?
46:05See you next time on The Jury Room.
46:15The Jury Room.
46:36You