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00:00I
00:03Couldn't ever have imagined that the story and the case was going to unfold in the way it did
00:08She believed that he was this property developer who had a lot of backing a lot of money
00:16The reality was it was a kebab chef
00:19She was charmed by this man who was in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing
00:24You
00:27El abud and kusai al-jundi who hatched this plan spent months befriending Louise
00:35They work together at a restaurant in London, but convinced Louise they were wealthy and that they wanted to buy two of her properties
00:43I
00:48Louise cam was last seen alive driving her black BMW to one of her properties in Barnet, North London
00:57For human being to treat another human being so appallingly means that you must not be bothered by your conscience
01:06Our family has been left in a state of disbelief for what has happened to my mother
01:16Life without Louise has no meaning
01:19We'll end my days as a lonely and broken man
01:23time does not heal
01:26To know you've just murdered a woman and then you're dancing on a driveway
01:31It's the singular moment that seals the fate of both of them
01:37al-jundi wrapped Louise's body in a duvet and put it into a wheelie bin
01:43and incredibly al-jundi said can you please take the wheelie bin and place it on the driveway of the house that I live in
02:01AL-jundi wound
02:20Kissy Heller
02:21By the summer of 2021, I've been with the newspaper for about three years and your crime stories, your planning stories, businesses, personal interest stories are your day-to-day.
02:37And you don't often get something like this case drop on your desk.
02:40With the big things like this, you'll be made aware of it by a member of the public or the police, and that would be how you first become aware of the story.
02:56But then it is your job to go out and fire more, speaking to police officers, speaking to people at the scene, speaking to witnesses, getting that extra information.
03:04We call it colour.
03:05Missing persons are fairly common. I'd say you get two to three a week, but most times they're found within hours.
03:21With the Louise Cam case, there was a couple of things in the initial appeal that the police sent.
03:27The first thing that kind of raised suspicion for me was the age.
03:31Older people don't tend to go missing. You get the odd one, but it's very unlikely.
03:41I think that may have been part of the reason why it didn't, you know, go to a wider audience and bigger outlets didn't pick up on it.
03:49The second thing was where she went missing from and where she was last seen was a shopping centre, which is, I don't think I've ever seen that in a case before.
03:57So, that really caught my eye and made me think, something's not right here.
04:01So, when a missing person inquiry escalates, there are a number of lines of inquiries that we would pursue, but the first thing we go to is, where is Louise's phone?
04:25So, Louise's son, Greg, tells the police, I've got a text message from my mum saying she's gone to China.
04:34But that's not her spelling. That's not her grammar.
04:38That text has been sent from her phone, but it's not been written by Louise.
04:46So, who has got her phone and who has written that text?
04:49Your mother's gone missing and you receive a text message from her number.
04:56It gives you that hope, but then you look further at it and things are off and it's not right and you, I can imagine you get that sinking feeling.
05:03You know something horrible has happened here. You're thinking the worst.
05:07We found out that Louise had this multi-million pound property portfolio.
05:19She had a shop in Wilsden that had flats above it and there was also a house in Gallants Farm Road, which, as much as we knew, was vacant and there was nobody living there.
05:28Now, the obvious focus in any missing person's inquiry is, where is that person?
05:40Is that person ill or injured?
05:43And in Louise's case, is Louise ill or injured in one of her properties?
05:48Now, at the time of Louise's disappearance, as far as Louise was concerned, the Gallants Farm Road property is empty.
05:55So, can you imagine the surprise to the police when they turn up?
05:59Somebody has been living there.
06:05So, for me, one of the really interesting facts about this case is the complete dearth of information in the media.
06:11Why is that?
06:12Is it because Louise is 71 years old?
06:15Is it because she's of Chinese origin?
06:18What was it that didn't like the touch paper for the people of London to ask those difficult questions?
06:22As days go on and you hear no news and you get reappeals and say, the police are saying, you know, we're increasingly concerned, you know something serious has happened and you'll likely get that news in days, hours.
06:38It can take time, but you know the news is coming.
06:43On Sunday, the 1st of August, 2021, very sadly, everything changed.
06:50The body of Louise Cam is found in a bin on a driveway.
06:56This missing person inquiry has now become a murder investigation.
06:59It was on August 5th, 2021, when police released the names of two men they charged with the murder of Louise Cam.
07:20The first was Kasiyah Al-Jundi.
07:29Kasiyah Al-Jundi was a 23-year-old Syrian who worked as a chef in a kebab shop on Wilsdon High Road called the Yasmin Sham Restaurant.
07:37A friend introduced Al-Jundi to Louise because he believed that he was this property developer who had a lot of backing, a lot of money.
07:50But the reality was he was a kebab chef.
07:53He was living at home with his mother, his wife and his three children.
07:57These are not two things that go hand in hand with a wealthy property entrepreneur.
08:02They don't relate in any way.
08:03I don't know how he got away with the things he did, because, you know, his life was so far removed from what he claimed it was.
08:23The second man who is key to the case was Mohamed El-Aboud.
08:27El-Aboud was a 26-year-old Romanian who was in the country illegally.
08:38He previously worked in Coventry at a Disney warehouse and then came down to London.
08:44And that's where he started working as a cash-in-hand delivery driver at the same restaurant where Al-Jundi was a chef.
08:50As a journalist in the modern age, you're very lucky to have somebody's social footprint.
09:04So you can go to their Facebook, their Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and you can find out certain things that help you build a picture.
09:11I think the kind of things that he was doing on his TikTok account is, you know, this kind of idea of doing things that you think are cool and that will impress people.
09:25But it's, again, part of this showing off kind of attitude that he seems to have.
09:30It's almost the kind of wannabe gangster mentality, I think.
09:34And TikTok videos and social media videos in general show you, you know, where you've been and what you've been doing.
09:44But they can also build up this bigger picture of who you are as a person, what kind of character you are.
09:49AL-JUNDI
10:19It's about £8 million for Louise's properties that she currently owns.
10:23And that was way above the market value.
10:29AL-JUNDI, in this case, chose his victim really very well.
10:35He chose somebody who was a woman of substantial means.
10:40He chose somebody who was in a family position that she desperately wanted to be able to look after her sons, her dependents.
10:50We see that the types of people who commit these sorts of scams are often people who are likeable.
11:05They are often people that we think of as trustworthy.
11:08They're quite compelling.
11:09They would probably make quite good actors.
11:18He managed to play a role.
11:19He gave himself a back story.
11:21And he managed to persuade a woman who was not all that naive.
11:26She had a property portfolio.
11:28She was a businesswoman.
11:29But she was utterly convinced.
11:31This is what we know in cons of this large nature.
11:42The first of all, the person doing this sort of comp, pulling this sort of scam, has to be very convincing.
11:49They have to be very determined.
11:50And they have to keep going.
11:52During the investigation, the police find out about another woman who becomes a key part of the case.
12:10A woman called Anna Reich.
12:13And she goes and meets Al Jundi in the kebab shop.
12:17That's where the two of them meet for the first time.
12:19And it was undoubtedly a case of romance fraud.
12:23You know, Al Jundi woos her and convinces her that he's in love with her.
12:29And then this deal takes place where she's going to sell two cars to Al Jundi.
12:34And he's going to give her £57,000.
12:41Now, of course, what happens is she hands over the cars and then no money's ever exchanged.
12:49And, you know, Anna Reich's an intelligent woman.
12:57She's somebody who's very savvy, much like Louise was.
13:00But, again, he uses this charm and just woos people immediately.
13:04There was no romance fraud involved in the case with Louise.
13:18But, you know, he's got previous.
13:21He's committed this fraud with Anna Reich.
13:23He's gone about in a very similar way.
13:25He's met them in person.
13:27He's spoken about what he can do for them.
13:29He's used this charm.
13:30And, you know, there's striking similarities between the two.
13:34Now, the deception really starts to take hold when Al Jundi says to Louise,
13:39look, listen, Louise.
13:41Fill in this TR1 form, this transfer of property form.
13:45Give me the power of attorney.
13:48The rest will look after itself.
13:51And in layman's terms, that basically means she will hand over everything to him
13:55and she will get this big lump sum of cash that they're proposing to pay for the properties.
14:00Over the course of attempting to push this transaction through with Louise Cam,
14:05Al Jundi approached a number of different solicitors to prepare the paperwork
14:10in order for Louise Cam to transfer the properties to Al Jundi.
14:15Quite rightly, a number of solicitors said no and refused to go through with it.
14:21And Al Jundi was told that Louise Cam had to have her own solicitor, her own representation.
14:27And it speaks to Al Jundi's desperation or perhaps tenacity,
14:32that in the face of being told no by lots of solicitors, he just kept going.
14:37He just kept on and on and did not give up.
14:39So somehow Al Jundi persuades Louise not only to get her own solicitor,
14:46but to pay for her own solicitor to draw up the contracts
14:50that will allow Al Jundi to take her property from her.
14:53So it was believed Gallant's Farm Road was a vacant property,
15:17but in July of 2021, what had actually happened was that Al Jundi had obtained the keys to the property
15:22and moved Al Jundi in.
15:25But given that she didn't know about that, we have to question and think very hard about
15:29what she was told in order to persuade her to hand over the keys.
15:34She might have been told that Al Jundi needed to show people around.
15:38She might have been told that he needed surveyors there
15:41or that he was thinking about doing some work to the property
15:44and that the only efficient way to allow him to come and go was to hand over the keys.
15:52I love it and that he was talking about this one.
15:55I don't know this.
15:55He was talking about the main bar,
15:57and I've been talking about the pinnacle.
15:59I don't know that I don't care what he was talking about.
16:03He's an interesting one.
16:05He has a full-time number of people but to follow him.
16:08He has a luxury and he has a luxury.
16:13And that is how he has a luxury of all his children.
16:14He has an luxury of the park.
16:15And that is how he has to sell them in a country better place
16:18and he has a luxury of all his children.
16:21No, you don't want to go to the bar.
16:30I'm a rich man.
16:34I'm rich man.
16:38I don't want to go.
16:40Now, for El Aboud, he's probably thinking,
16:42this is great, I've landed on my feet,
16:44I've got a nice property I'm living in,
16:46presumably rent-free,
16:48but at the same time,
16:50he now owes a lot to Al Giundi
16:52and is, you know, kind of reliant on him,
16:55and, you know, that ties him up with Al Giundi,
16:58and there's no way he can get out of that.
17:06So, in these TikTok videos,
17:08he's showing off the cars, the clothes,
17:10the money, the house,
17:12but he's also showing off this girl
17:14that he's with a fellow Romanian named Maria.
17:18Now, they'd met in Coventry,
17:21she'd come down to London as well,
17:23and it wasn't clear whether they were in a relationship,
17:26but in these TikTok videos,
17:27there's a lot of physical contact between the two of them,
17:30which would suggest they were.
17:31I think the most concerning video,
17:46and it's very foreboding,
17:48is the one where he's got his hands round his own throat,
17:51and knowing what's going to happen just weeks later,
17:56that's harrowing to see.
17:58What's going to be like to see?
18:28She explains that she was going to Gallants' Farm Road
18:42She explained that she was going to Gallants Farm Road for a meeting with Al Jundi, a solicitor, and this mysterious backer, Anna.
19:12Now, we know Anna didn't exist, but what happened was Al Jundi tried to convince Anna Reich to attend this meeting, and she refused.
19:28So when Louise arrived at the house, she found Mohamed El Abood and Maria, and then Kasiya Al Jundi arrived not long afterwards.
19:42It appears as if Al Jundi is grating an alibi for himself.
20:02Meanwhile, El Abood was left in the house with Louise Katt.
20:06And then you realise something horrible has gone on here.
20:12On the night of the murder, telephony records show that Al Jundi and El Abood had a 22-minute phone conversation.
20:35Now, they'd not seen each other long before that.
20:38So something had happened that they felt they needed to discuss, and it's pure speculation what they were talking about in that time,
20:55but we can reasonably assume that they were talking about Louise Kamm's passing.
21:00They might have been making plans, there might have been some accusations going between the two of them as to, you know, who was responsible for what, what they were going to do.
21:11At that point, they're more than likely discussing the murder that's just been committed.
21:16At this point, they're probably panicking as to what to do next.
21:20This shows them both working together.
21:22If either one of these men was completely innocent or unaware of what was going on,
21:30that telephone conversation either shouldn't have happened at all, or it shouldn't have lasted 22 minutes,
21:36or afterwards, one or other of them, the innocent party, should have acted differently.
21:42After Louise was murdered, there is footage of Al Abood and Al Jundi going to the kebab shop in Wilsham,
22:05where they both work, to collect cleaning fluids.
22:12From the CCTV footage, you can see that both Al Jundi and Al Abood have got this kind of brazen, arrogant attitude.
22:23They don't really seem bothered about what they've just done.
22:27I don't know whether this is a bit of panic as well, naivety, almost trying to act normal,
22:32just going about their day-to-day life, but the way it comes across is really horrible to see.
22:42Al Jundi and Al Abood went back to the Gardens Farm Road property,
22:56where they wrapped Louise's body in a duvet and plastic sheets and put it into a wheelie bin.
23:03And then on top of a body, they placed garden waste.
23:07They called three men, three men who knew nothing about what was taking place,
23:12and said, can you take this wheelie bin from Gallants Farm Road to Harrow?
23:18Which they duly did.
23:22And incredibly, Al Jundi said, can you please take the wheelie bin
23:26and place it on the driveway of the house that I live in?
23:33I mean, I just find that mind-blowing.
23:40Again, this strikes me as something that shows he hasn't really thought this through.
23:45If you're going to take a body and hide it or dump it,
23:49you would not put it on your own driveway.
23:52As soon as you're in the picture, the police are coming straight to your property.
23:55That's the first place they're going to look.
23:57You're going to be caught almost immediately.
24:00It's just such a reckless thing for him to do.
24:08The most harrowing piece of CCTV was captured at night at Al Jundi's house,
24:13and you see him on the driveway with his family.
24:19And the bin with Louise's body is right there.
24:22And there's a moment where he can't help himself.
24:25He has to go and have a look.
24:30You can only imagine what is going through his head at that point.
24:33The panic must have really set in for him.
24:35Shortly after the murder,
24:55Ella Boud took Louise's BMW and put it on Facebook Marketplace,
25:00and it was sold to an unsuspecting buyer.
25:14And then with that money, Ella Boud went and purchased new clothes.
25:18And incredibly, incredibly,
25:21he puts on this new gear,
25:24records himself dancing on the driveway of Gallant's Farm Road,
25:28and then posts these videos onto his TikTok channel.
25:31To think, I'm going to do this dance and put it on social media,
25:50on the driveway of a woman I've just murdered,
25:53her house that I've been living in without her permission,
25:57it's a horrible, dreadful thing to do.
26:01A sweatshirt was found at the scene,
26:22and this sweatshirt had blood on the front of it.
26:27Now, when it was DNA profiled,
26:29it matched that of Louise Cam, the victim.
26:32So the blood came from her.
26:37Also, the sweatshirt was tested for what's known as wearer's DNA.
26:42So trying to establish who the wearer was,
26:44and that matched that of Ella Boud.
26:46However, DNA alone doesn't tell you how that blood got on that sweatshirt,
26:55whether it was as part of the clean-up,
26:58they used it as part of the clean-up,
26:59or in fact whether or not it was caused by impact spatter,
27:03that it's a weapon going into wet blood
27:05and causing impact spatter on the sweatshirt.
27:08Actually, it doesn't matter hugely whether or not that blood got there during the attack,
27:15or whether or not it was transferred afterwards.
27:18But what it does show is that there was continued involvement
27:23between these two men to dispose of a body.
27:27We know that Louise Cam was strangled with a ligature,
27:37and that was the major cause of death.
27:40However, she had other injuries to her body.
27:43For example, there was an indication of a spinal fracture.
27:47There was also bruising to the body,
27:49and also suggested that a blunt instrument injury to the body.
27:54In the garden is found a piece of discarded electrical cable.
28:04And the police find in the house a hairdryer that's missing electrical cable.
28:17In one of the TikTok videos,
28:20Elaboud is in the house dancing, as he does in many of the videos.
28:24But this one is particularly sickening,
28:30because in the background, you see a hairdryer,
28:33but that hairdryer would go on to be the murder weapon
28:36that was used to kill Louise Cam.
28:37The cord from the hairdryer was subjected to a DNA analysis.
28:53A DNA profile was obtained, and it matched that of Elaboud.
28:57Now that, with the being used in strangulation,
29:01his DNA on it, is, on the face of it, quite damning.
29:05But I think we must remember that he also lived at Gullens Farm Road,
29:09where the hairdryer and cord were found.
29:11So it's quite possible that he could have touched that cord quite innocently,
29:16and not been involved with the strangulation.
29:18Louise Cam's body, after she'd been murdered,
29:26was placed in a mobile wheelie bin.
29:30Alongside her body were found two pairs of disposable gloves.
29:38Now, blood was found on the outside of these gloves
29:41when DNA profiles matched that of Louise Cam,
29:44which came from her injuries she'd sustained during the attack.
29:48On the inside of the gloves,
29:51that is, we're looking for wearer's DNA,
29:53was found to match Al-Jundi and Elaboud.
29:57I've covered a lot of murder cases before,
30:00and this is one of, I think, the silliest mistakes
30:02I have ever seen from a murderer.
30:05To take the gloves you've worn while handling the body
30:09and then put them in the bin with the body,
30:12the police will find that immediately,
30:14and that is, you know,
30:16the silver bullet of evidence that the police need.
30:19They've got your DNA and the victim all in one place.
30:23That's all they need for a conviction.
30:24So, this case involved what we call a cutthroat defence,
30:43and it's very simple.
30:45It's when one defendant blames the other,
30:47and that defendant blames the first one.
30:49Now, in legal terms, in defence terms,
30:52cutthroat defences are notoriously difficult to win,
30:56because it always looks terrible in front of a jury
30:59to have defendants saying,
31:00he did it, no, he did it.
31:02It's particularly difficult
31:04when there is a body of evidence
31:06linking those two people together,
31:08both before a crime and after a crime.
31:11From a jury's perspective,
31:21not hearing from Al-Jundi in court is problematic.
31:26When El Aboud took to the stand,
31:28he said that he was reliant on Al-Jundi,
31:31that the whole plan was his,
31:34and that he was scared of him,
31:35and that he went along with it.
31:37He was essentially laying all of the blame
31:39at Al-Jundi's door.
31:41The prosecution were able to show the jury
31:53TikTok videos that El Aboud had made.
31:56One was of him parodying Louise Cam
32:00in her clothes,
32:02and effectively hobbling to a car.
32:07Take two minutes, sir.
32:11It's really interesting evidence,
32:22because it might not be evidence
32:24of any specific part of the offence,
32:27but crucially for the prosecution,
32:30it's really about what this tells the jury
32:32about that young man.
32:34From Al-Jundi's testimony to the court,
32:40he tells us the following.
32:42I came down the stairs and saw Miss Louise's body
32:44in the living room.
32:46I felt scared.
32:48I was shocked.
32:50I started to cry.
32:52I felt a reaction I do not know how to explain.
32:55The defending barrister asks El Aboud,
33:04did you see the body moving?
33:06El Aboud's response is,
33:08I did not pay attention.
33:10I was so shocked.
33:12I didn't have time because my phone was ringing.
33:15El Aboud's statements in court directly contradict
33:19what Maria told the police,
33:20and we have no reason not to believe what she said,
33:24that her and Al-Jundi left the house,
33:27and when they did,
33:28El Aboud and Louise Cam were still inside,
33:31and Louise was alive.
33:32Al-Jundi may have believed
33:49that going to the jewellers with Maria
33:52at the time of the murder
33:53would have given him the perfect alibi,
33:54but all the evidence points towards
33:57a joint enterprise case,
33:58the clean-up operation,
34:00the 22-minute phone call after Louise was murdered,
34:03the planning beforehand,
34:05this shows they were in it together,
34:07and this was not one man
34:08committing this crime on their own.
34:22I think we need to recognise the role of Maria
34:24in all of this,
34:26because forensics aside,
34:27she was the glue
34:29that put those relationships together
34:31and gave us critical information,
34:33information without which
34:36the police and the CPS
34:37could not do their jobs.
34:40But it takes a really brave person
34:42to give evidence
34:43against two men
34:44who have murdered somebody,
34:48and who's to say
34:48they're not connected with other people
34:50that will lay pressure on Maria
34:52not to give evidence.
34:54I thought it was really brave of Maria,
34:56and she was critical.
34:57Let's not forget,
34:58she was critical.
34:59Forensics are fine.
35:01That human telling us what took place
35:03is what really persuaded the jury.
35:06One of the key bits of information
35:08that Maria tells the jury
35:10is that the day after the murder,
35:14Ella Boo drives her back to Coventry.
35:16They break the journey for a meal.
35:35And it's during this break
35:44that Ella Boo says to Maria,
35:46I can't believe I've just killed somebody.
35:49So in court, Maria is a key witness,
36:03and I think, you know,
36:04having somebody who was part
36:06of this whole experience
36:08stand up there in the dock,
36:09which is a very brave thing to do,
36:11and give all this evidence
36:13was key for the jury.
36:14The evidence was overwhelming.
36:26And when they returned,
36:27they found both Muhammad Ella Boo
36:30and Kassire Al-Jundi guilty
36:31of the murder of Louise Cam.
36:33It is clear how much Louise was loved
36:48and admired by her family
36:50and her friends.
36:52A woman who loved and cared for her sons
36:54suffered brutal injuries at your hands,
36:57and then with complete disregard,
37:00you sought to dispose of her remains.
37:03I am satisfied that by the 26th of July,
37:11Al-Jundi, you had resolved
37:12to kill Louise Cam.
37:14Your plans had crystallized
37:16at least a few days before.
37:19You plainly told Ella Boo
37:21you would make a significant amount of money
37:23from Louise Cam's death.
37:26Ella Boo, although it might be said
37:27that Al-Jundi played the lead role
37:29in the long-running defrauding of Louise,
37:31I draw no distinction
37:33on the sentences to be passed on the two of you.
37:36The evidence clearly shows what you did
37:38and did willingly,
37:40and that you, along with Al-Jundi,
37:42did what you did out of greed.
37:44In my judgment,
37:45and taking into account
37:46all the aggravating and mitigating factors
37:49that I have identified,
37:50the appropriate minimum term
37:52here is one of 35 years.
37:55The days on remand
37:56between arrest and now,
37:57which I am told
37:58number 549 days
38:00in each of your cases,
38:02will count towards that sentence,
38:04and so the minimum term
38:05will be one of 35 years,
38:07less than 549 days.
38:11As the statutory surcharge applies
38:13in this case,
38:14the appropriate order
38:15can be drawn up.
38:16You may go down.
38:17At the end of the trial,
38:36both men were convicted
38:37of murder,
38:39and the judge quite rightly said
38:40that it had to be a life sentence.
38:42At that stage,
38:43the judge will always give
38:45a minimum term
38:47that has to be served
38:48before a defendant
38:49is eligible for parole.
38:52In this case,
38:52that was 35 years each,
38:55and he made no distinction
38:56between the two men
38:58or what part
38:59they played
39:00in Louise Cam's murder.
39:02So it is a very long sentence.
39:03The judge was extremely careful
39:05and considerate
39:07in his sentencing remarks.
39:09There was no mitigation at all,
39:11so there was nothing
39:12other than them both being
39:14in their 20s
39:15that either of those young men
39:16could say
39:17was a reason
39:18why they committed
39:19that offence.
39:20And in the circumstances,
39:21that very long sentence
39:23was, in my opinion,
39:25exactly right
39:26and entirely justifiable.
39:28So I commend the SIO,
39:31his team,
39:31and the CPS
39:32for doing an incredible job
39:33and for the jury
39:34to sit through
39:35all of that evidence
39:36and work out
39:37that these two men
39:38murdered Louise
39:40and solely so
39:42they could have
39:42her property
39:43and have a lifestyle.
39:45And that is just tragic.
39:47It's difficult
39:48to understand
39:49how Louise,
39:50who was a savvy businesswoman,
39:52who had the property portfolios,
39:54the previous business,
39:55she knew what she was doing,
39:57was duped
39:59into all of this
40:01by Al Jundi,
40:02giving away
40:02all she had
40:03to this kebab chef.
40:05It still, to me,
40:07doesn't make sense
40:08even now.
40:09Just the mere fact
40:11that for a human being
40:13to treat another human being
40:15so appallingly
40:17means that you must not
40:19be bothered
40:19by your conscience.
40:21Both Kasai Raul Jundi
40:30and Muhammad El Aboud
40:31were given
40:31a life sentence
40:32with a minimum
40:33of 35 years
40:34behind bars.
40:36Now, to me,
40:36for the murder
40:38of an innocent woman
40:40who had done
40:41absolutely nothing wrong,
40:42was looking to provide
40:42for her family,
40:43that seems like
40:44way too short
40:45of a sentence.
40:46Both of them
40:46will be around 60
40:47when they have
40:48the first chance
40:49to get out of prison.
40:51For them to be able
40:52to walk the streets
40:53after what they've done,
40:54such a cold,
40:55callous,
40:55vicious murder,
40:57seems wrong to me.
41:03What we talk about
41:04quite often
41:05is this word,
41:06closure,
41:06and it's really
41:08rather misleading.
41:10So in the context
41:11of legal cases,
41:13there might be
41:14a closure
41:14in terms of justice.
41:17Of course,
41:18these sorts of cases
41:19leave a scar.
41:21They leave the most
41:22dreadful scar
41:22on friends
41:23and family.
41:29People often ask me
41:31about justice
41:32equals closure.
41:34What does closure
41:35actually mean?
41:35I don't think
41:36there is such a thing
41:37as closure.
41:38So for Louise's family,
41:41I don't...
41:41Look, I'm not
41:42Louise's son,
41:43friends or family,
41:44I don't know.
41:45That to me
41:46is not closure.
41:46It's my new normality,
41:49but I can rest in peace
41:50knowing that the people
41:52that murdered my mum
41:53are now in prison.
41:56But mostly,
41:57it's just a desperate
41:58sense of loss
41:59that we don't get
42:00from a normal passing
42:02of a loved one.
42:03And that trauma,
42:05that scar,
42:07that sense of horror,
42:09that doesn't go away.
42:10I don't think
42:14that there'll ever
42:15be closure for the family.
42:16These are the kind
42:17of things that stay
42:18with you.
42:19A mother,
42:20a best friend,
42:21has been lost.
42:22I'll go on to report
42:23on other cases,
42:24other murders,
42:26other major crimes,
42:27but for each individual
42:29one,
42:29there are always
42:30those people
42:31that will have
42:32this with them forever.
42:33I cannot find words
42:42that will express
42:44the grief I bear.
42:47My life without Louise
42:49doesn't have any meaning.
42:52I will end my days
42:53as a lonely
42:54and broken man.
42:58Louise loved
42:58and cared for so many.
43:03So many miss her too.
43:06Time does not heal.
43:10Now and for the rest
43:12of our lives,
43:13I and all who loved her
43:15will live knowing
43:17of the brutality
43:18she suffered
43:19to her last breath.
43:33This Thursday at 10,
43:42Cruel and Unusual
43:43reveals one of the most
43:45twisted stories
43:45in British crime history
43:47which unleashed terror
43:48in suburbia.
43:49Tragic accidents
43:50or something more sinister?
43:52You decide.
43:53New episodes of
43:53The Accused,
43:54Guilty or Innocent,
43:55streaming on My5.
43:57Next police hour of duty.
43:58The Accused