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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to today's edition of Press R.
00:04The return to normalcy in the northwest and southwest regions of Cameroon
00:09has not been as near the target as it has been in 2024 since the start of the crisis eight years ago.
00:18This is not to say that the crisis is over.
00:21No, no, and no, there have been killings.
00:24There have been kidnappings and other forms of harm and violation of human rights.
00:32There is no justification whatsoever for any mayhem that has taken place in our country.
00:38But it has been officially and officially acknowledged that because of unfair distribution of the national cake,
00:47those who felt cheated had the right to complain.
00:50Of course, monolithism is dead and buried in Cameroon, giving way to pluralism, freedom of expression.
00:59Republicans call this unity in diversity.
01:04Like in the northwest and southwest regions, there are other dissenting voices,
01:09though with different forms of expression, on basically cultural and socio-political problems.
01:16The solution, like you, I have listened to the chorus, should be cultural and socio-political.
01:26We will not talk about the military support.
01:28Yes, it is a support to the political solution to the crisis, disputes, and conflicts Cameroon has experienced on all its cardinal fronts.
01:39We are going to talk about a political solution, which is in process, decentralization.
01:47Effective decentralization takes political power to your bedroom.
01:51Effective decentralization takes the national cake to your dining table.
01:57Effective decentralization takes the nation to your mind and gives you a sense of belonging and inclusion.
02:05Effective decentralization activates the positive molecules in you to unconsciously defend the integrity and sovereignty of the nation.
02:18Today on Press Hour, we ask, can effective decentralization resolve the crisis in the northwest and southwest regions,
02:27and by extension, solve the cultural and socio-political problems staring Cameroon in the face?
02:34I am Kilian Dandifon in Yaounde, inviting you to stay tuned to Press Hour.
02:47Let me ask Nimpa Francis, who is from Bamenda.
02:53How effective do you feel as a citizen from the northwest based in Bamenda?
03:01Are you feeling that decentralization where you are?
03:05Well, a little far away from that feeling is we are talking about effectiveness.
03:12Yes.
03:12And maybe you permit me just draw us a little back with some facts.
03:16That, you know, Cameroon's constitution was amended in 1996 to incorporate the aspect of decentralization within the framework of a unitary state.
03:26In 1996, 2004, the law on decentralization was brought in.
03:342004, we are in 2024.
03:39Government itself set out 2015.
03:42Government set out 2015 as the year where all powers will be transferred to the local authorities.
03:51Kilian, we are 28 years talking about decentralization all along.
03:58This is one of the root causes of the crisis we have in northwest and southwest.
04:05If decentralization was effectively implemented, we would have avoided this crisis.
04:11Because it is about giving power to the people and let the people be able to manage themselves.
04:19Decentralization talks about transferring competencies like in secondary education where they could create schools, recruit teachers, in health, in agriculture, in water, in energy.
04:31When all these things are not implemented, we are dancing on one spot for 28 years.
04:36So, for me, I think that government, like Chief Nasako said, there's been a lot of changes.
04:44But it's too slow.
04:45And it is the slowness that is bringing us to the socio-political crisis that northwest and southwest is facing today.
04:53Remember in 2016, a citizen of Bermuda cried foul that the roads were bad.
04:59That was the genesis of the crisis.
05:01If there was decentralization.
05:03It could not be that you have actually brought that point to where I wanted to.
05:08And you've used an example for me to actually come up with this worry of some Republicans.
05:16They think that there was a hidden agenda in what we were talking about that sparked the crisis.
05:24Because they started with, I think, 11 points from 11 to 18, 19, from 18, 19 to 24.
05:32Almost all those grievances were handled.
05:37Tell me it came late.
05:39But they did not stop.
05:42It came on with some other agenda.
05:44When it started, there are people who said, no, this thing is not only about lack of decentralization or devolution of powers.
05:53Yeah, so when you talk about that, those people today, they feel that they were right to have said in the beginning that there are people behind who had a hidden agenda.
06:04That of separation.
06:05No.
06:06Not actually just decentralization.
06:08Because you talked about roads.
06:09Yes.
06:10The problem of roads.
06:11Have you left Yaounde and gone to other areas in the central region to see the situation?
06:18I'm quoting the roads in Bamenda because that's where I come from.
06:20Yes.
06:21I've also had the time to move around Yaounde.
06:23Yes.
06:23If you move around Yaounde, you will be surprised whether you're in the capital city of Cameroon.
06:28The roads are very bad everywhere.
06:29So all this goes down.
06:31So the justification on bad roads and some other stuff is fake somehow.
06:34Yes.
06:34It all boils down to this effective decentralization that we're talking about.
06:38If in 2019, the law on local, regional and local collectivity came in from the major national dialogue,
06:47we have five years and the regional councils that were created, they are aping away after five years.
06:54Concretely on the ground, Killian, we don't feel the impact of the regional council in terms of this infrastructural development we're talking about.
07:03The year has just ended.
07:04A lot of those regional councils are voting a budget of five billion.
07:07What can five billion do to a region that needs road?
07:13Killian, you would not tell me that the roads that sparked the crisis were eight years and the roads in Bamenda still look the way they are.
07:20I don't want to compare to other parts of Cameroon.
07:23Charity begins at home.
07:24I'm crying my roads in Bamenda.
07:25Do you know the president?
07:26We are eight years and the roads in Bamenda look the way they are.
07:30Houses were demolished.
07:31How do you tell a local man in Bamenda that decentralization is working?
07:37Where eight years ago, his house was demolished along the roadside that they will expand the road.
07:42And we are eight years.
07:43That is, that's gone past a mandate, a presidential mandate.
07:46Remember.
07:47Do you know the president of the Northwest Regional Assembly?
07:49Yes, Professor Fuang Wafu.
07:50I know, I'm from the Northwest.
07:52I'm a media man, I know.
07:54Are you sure you know him?
07:55Yes, I know him.
07:57And you do not know that he's doing a lot in Bamenda, in the Northwest?
08:02I have not.
08:03And that we have projected so many construction, infrastructure and human resource capacity building and the rest that he has done.
08:13No, no, no, I have not ruled out that.
08:15He has taken this first mandate on peace.
08:16But you give the impression that.
08:17No, he's impacted this first mandate more on peace, reconciliation, peace building, which is, he's actually achieving.
08:23You should also have certain things that are standing in your way, just a few of them, for you to get into full function.
08:32Well, I think the most important thing is people taking ownership of the special status.
08:41First of all, the special status has many angles to it.
08:45First of all, from a legislative point of view, part five of the code, instituting regional and local councils is exclusively taking care of the special status for the Northwest and Southwest regions of Cameroon.
09:06As you say, it was in the Constitution, but in the Constitution, it did not say where the special status will be applied.
09:12So there is movement.
09:14That's the first thing.
09:16And secondly, I find it difficult to say if the special status has been fully implemented.
09:24Nothing is fully done in life.
09:26We are in a movement, an evolution.
09:30For the start, we have a lot.
09:34And I can tell you, for instance, we are assemblies, even though the other eight regions have councils.
09:43Why?
09:44Because we have two chambers.
09:46We have a chamber for divisional representatives, and we have a chamber for the House of Chiefs.
09:51This exists only in areas where you have the special status.
09:56More interestingly, we have three commissioners with specific portfolios.
10:02And then, to top it all, we have an ombudsman, the public independent conciliator.
10:11These are elements borrowed from the Anglo-Saxon tradition.
10:16And to tell you the truth, yes, that is the law.
10:21But to move from conception, strategies, actions and activities, we also have to grow.
10:29That is why I say it's evolutive.
10:33I'll give you a simple example to show you how the special status can work.
10:39Because the House of Chiefs is a special structure within the assembly,
10:46they have within the law to deal with areas with oral tradition, monuments, palaces, vestiges, customs and culture.
11:01That is so special.
11:02Who else can bring that to the table but the actors, the custodians of our culture, of our heritage?
11:13So we're now here that if the special status was given, it's there.
11:20It's there in the law.
11:21The question is not if it were given.
11:23We're actually saying that it is given.
11:25And we're asking what if these things you're talking about were fully implemented.
11:31Because I can tell you in the northwest region, for instance, we've rehabilitated over 30 palaces.
11:43And in the rehabilitation of those palaces, people from other areas were reticent.
11:50They thought that palaces belong to individuals.
11:54But following the northwest culture, the palace belongs to the community,
11:59to that village or that small enclave.
12:05So it is actually changing the system of governance because it is a citizen, people-centered, citizen participatory system down up.
12:20A clear example of the specificity of our palaces in the northwest as opposed to the other regions.
12:27So whether you, when a palace is rehabilitated, 30 of them are rehabilitated, we have 14 more for this year, and so on, so on.
12:38For that palace, is it partly rehabilitated, is it rehabilitated or fully rehabilitated?
12:44There is some atmosphere of peace in Baminda and the northwest as a whole compared to 2018, 2019, 2020.
12:51And the regional assembly for Southwest, they've done so much in Manu, in Dian, in Meme, in Faco.
12:59So he has come here with projects to show, not to talk about, and we've seen what they are doing.
13:07Yes, I concede that it is not effective to the extent that citizens like you will like, but you have to appreciate that these people are doing a lot.
13:18I appreciate where government has taken us so far, but I continue to say that it would have helped up much better if the process was facilitated.
13:30Three years ago, the President of the Republic, in his end-of-year speech, said we have to fast-track decentralization.
13:37Because according to him, he saw that it was slow, and it is the slowness that is tifling Cameroon the way it is.
13:43So if it is fast-track the way it is, I will be happy, and decentralization, we will have a lot of benefits that will come in from there.
13:50Yeah, in terms of the peace, yes, I agree with you.
13:54But to say that it is not done, I don't agree with you.
13:56Mr. President, you are here, you are not sitting back there, not communicating.
14:01You have come to convince her and to convince people who think like her.
14:05I'm going to give you the microphone to show us what you have done, to tell us what you have done.
14:11I will not take back the microphone until you exhaust your list.
14:16Thank you very much.
14:18I just want to say, as in reaction to what Madame the Journalist said, the Regional Assembly communicates and communicates very well.
14:26I want to invite Madame to come to the Southwest region.
14:29So that, because your colleagues who visit us will tell you, will testify to this association, we communicate.
14:37We communicate, we communicate not only with the press, we communicate with the population we have called upon to cater.
14:45For example, you have left the Southwest this morning early and you are here in Yaoundé to let the public know of what you are doing.
14:53Yes, give us examples of what you have been doing.
14:56No, when we started, we won elections, elections were organized in 2020 December.
15:03When we started, we all know that we started by June, in July.
15:08So with the apprehension that before the Regional Assembly were put into place, because of the problems that all of us know,
15:17our two regions, some people say, were divided into three zones.
15:22The green zone, the yellow zone, the red zone.
15:24So we were a bit prudent.
15:26We started with the green zones.
15:29Exactly.
15:30To carry out projects.
15:32But we said the Regional Assembly has been created to cater for the population.
15:37Irrespective of whether they are in the yellow or the yellow.
15:40So the next year we went into the yellow zones.
15:43And then now we are already in the red zone.
15:45For me, what I want to say to Madame, in the Southwest region we no longer have zones.
15:51There is no yellow zone, no green zone.
15:52Because why I say this is that, when we have a project, we have a project in a place like Toko,
15:59our contractors report to us and the engineers who follow up the project,
16:03that the people there where they thought were the ones disturbing,
16:07are the ones who collaborate to ensure that those projects are realized.
16:11Because they need, what do our people need?
16:13They need water.
16:15They need water.
16:16Since we came to the Regional Assembly, we've realized that the number one need of our population,
16:21be they in urban centers or in the rural area, they need water.
16:25So we have embarked on the construction of boroughs in various localities in the 6th region.
16:30So the people, they also need water.
16:33I need water, I don't create problems.
16:35The person who creates water needs water.
16:37They need electricity.
16:38So we're installing solar streetlights, not only the big towns, in all the villages.
16:43And they are the ones who assist our country because they need those facilities.
16:47So because we believe that some people say there can be no development without peace.
16:52But we, at the level of Southern Regional Assembly, we think that there can be no peace without development.
16:58So that is our approach.
17:00We are developing a region to pacify the situation, and we think that we are breaking grounds.
17:05Now, I am seeing images of science laboratory in...
17:10Yeah, in Isangela, as I said, who could believe when this whole problem started
17:17that the government could construct a science laboratory in Isangela?
17:21Because the population of Isangela, the children there, they need to be doctors tomorrow, they need to be engineers.
17:27So they need a laboratory.
17:28The Regional Assembly has constructed and equipped a science laboratory in GHS Isangela.
17:33We have done that.
17:35So there are many other...
17:36Give us some...
17:37We have constructed a magnificent one-story building to serve as an administrative block in the Kumba Regional Hospital.
17:47I want to give you the reason.
17:48The hospital was transformed from a district hospital to a regional hospital.
17:53And more doctors are posted to this hospital, including specialists.
17:57And they don't have enough consultation space.
18:00So our intention is to pull out the administration from the present colonial building to this new structure that we have put up.
18:07So that we create more space for consulting doctors to have space to consult, to attend to our population.
18:15In that same hospital, this year, 2024, we are building and equipping the Hemodialysis Center at the Regional Hospital in Kumba.
18:24We have already, the funds are available.
18:26Because, you know, in the world of Southwesternown, the only center is in Mboya.
18:30And we have patients coming from Manu, from the Kupemani, Guba, from Diyan, because Kumba is like a hub.
18:38And so we are embarking on that project.
18:41And that project will realize by between and the end of this year.
18:45We have constructed classrooms because we have resolved that where we build classrooms, we must equip the classrooms.
18:51And then we build ventilated, improved pit latrines, so that those facilities should go operational.
18:58We don't want the situation where we build classrooms.
19:01And the next one here, the classroom cannot be exploited.
19:04We need the exposure on PTA.
19:05We know how our parents are today because of this problem.
19:10So I think in almost all the divisions, these facilities are there.
19:16This year, 2024, we will embark on the construction of what we call pedagogic blocks.
19:21That is, we have story buildings with eight classrooms, four offices for the administration, and 16 toilets.
19:28Because, you know, when the president is of secondary education, she, you know, her policy of clean schools.
19:37Clean schools.
19:37You cannot talk of children going to school without thinking about toilet facilities.
19:42Yes, and that program of clean schools goes beyond the physical.
19:46So, Professor Nalova Lyonga, whom I know personally, is also talking about the discipline, is also talking about cleanliness, physical, and psychological.
19:59Now, let me ask you the last question.
20:02What is your vision as regional assembly for Southwest?
20:05Our vision at the level of the South Regional Assembly is to transform the lives of our people.
20:11Because, you know, before regional assemblies were put into place, the main problem was that people had to trek from the Kobe Valley to Yaonde to ask for a health center to be constructed.
20:27Today, they no longer need to do that.
20:29Thank you very much.
20:30So, you're going to work for the well-being of the people of the Southwest indiscriminately.
20:35Mr. President tells us that there are no longer green, yellow, and red juniors when it comes to what the Southwest Regional Assembly is doing.
20:47Stephen Ojambeng, who is a member of the Northwest Regional Assembly.
20:51Now, tell us exactly what is it that the President of the Southwest Regional Assembly has not said that you think we have to highlight also in the special status as far as the Regional Assembly is concerned.
21:06No, I think the President has said it all.
21:08But in every creation, we must understand that there will be some conflicting ideas that can usually create some other problems.
21:23What the common man on the ground wants to know is to feel that something new has happened.
21:30He has outlined those elements that makes Northwest and Southwest to have a special status.
21:35especially the creation of commissioners, which we do have, but the other regions do not have.
21:43The appellation itself, Regional Assembly, is already an indication that there's something different that has been beat up to the people of Northwest and Southwest.
21:56But then, where I said there's some conflicting elements is at the level where they, at one time, they're referred to as a Regional Council, to the other part, they're referred to as a Regional Assembly.
22:12So, if you were to look into the logical explanation which has been given, why it is referred to as a Regional Council, you have not talked about when the Divisional Representatives are meeting separately from the House of Chiefs.
22:29And then, there they can refer to it as a Regional Council, but when both houses are meeting, it's referred to as a Regional Assembly.
22:37But, I think, when you, when you are selling a good, you do not hold the rope, you do not hold the rope.
22:44If it is referred to as a Regional Assembly, it should be referred to as a Regional Assembly.
22:49Because, you cannot be giving Insignia to people, in other words, they're referred to as a Regional Assembly, why the Insignias are bearing on Regional Council.
22:57It's very contradictory, and very difficult.
22:59Who, who is giving that?
23:00No, but the Insignia, the Mr. President is here to confirm that Insignias, members of the Regional Assembly are carrying on it, it is bearing Regional Councils.
23:10Now, if you were to explain that to a common man, maybe you will explain that to an intellectual, he will understand.
23:15But a common man will not understand why they will be calling this Regional Assembly.
23:19Yes, Chief, Nasako, Nasako, you are a traditional ruler from your place. What is the level of decentralization in your place?
23:30We are going to come to what, if it is effective. We just want to appreciate the level of decentralization in your place.
23:36Well, since with the coming, like I said, with the coming of the Regional Councils and the Ministry involved, from my statistics as a researcher, Mr. Kilian, the Northwest Regional Council, and from now, this period did December ending,
23:55because all the Council Regional Council started work effectively in 2022.
24:00In 2021, they were doing like building up to manage the offices.
24:04So from my research, close to 600 projects have been executed in the Northwest region.
24:13And if I am to add those executed by sub-divisional councils, we are mounting to 7,000 projects in the Northwest during this period of decentralization.
24:28Then for the Southwest region, we have 633 projects executed.
24:34Then, we are looking at the central region. The central region, which, despite its development, which is already there,
24:43but the Council has struggled. The rest are close to 510 projects.
24:47Those are the statistics. So if I am to rate this central district now, if any researcher who is doing the field that I am doing,
24:55if he is to rate this central district now in Cameroon, it is 60%.
24:59Okay.
25:00And the rest of the present, I will tell you why, where it is hanging.
25:05And it is hanging because governance, the policy, the principle of governance is not applied in the Council.
25:13Governance in the sense that traditional rulers are not involved in the decentralization process.
25:18Despite the law that said that traditional rulers must be part and parcel of decentralization.
25:24Exactly.
25:25Because there are some projects which different ministers fought to councils.
25:30Traditional rulers don't know. The mayor don't make any effort to make these national rulers know this project.
25:36This project ends between them and the sub-supervasive authorities.
25:42And that is why we are saying that all the population is saying those who don't know.
25:46Because if you have not carried out the studies, you don't know what is happening.
25:50The people outside, they are seeing, looking at what they are seeing.
25:54That is why they are saying that decentralization is not working in Cameroon.
25:58Decentration is working in Cameroon.
26:00The other aspect which is killing decentralization is good governance, which falls from the fact that the chiefs, the trustees that are not involved.
26:09And the people involved in the morning train and supervision are working down decentralization process.
26:17And if these actions, this law, this general code of decentralization are just that, go into detail and find out with the vision of the head of state.
26:30Because that vision has given many communists and not like knowing what the head of state means by coming out with vision 335.
26:39To us scholars, we are looking at that vision.
26:43Any article, any section, any portion, that is not favoring the present state of government.
26:51That is dissension.
26:52Should be removed.
26:53We must say Cameroon is that the special status was one of the key recommendations of the national dialogue.
26:59Which government, you know, brought about in 2019 as the magic one to resolving the conflict in the north and southwest regions.
27:08So, I think if we want to start looking at what is fully implemented, we should look at why the institution was set in place.
27:16Why was there the December 24, 2024 law on regional and local authorities, the decentralization law under which the special status is well defined.
27:26I think government held a national dialogue and during it, while exploiting the constitution in article 62, sub 2, as you said,
27:36indicated that these two regions should be given a special status.
27:40It was, you know, dotted by many regime apologists as that solution for the conflict.
27:50But now, we are talking about close to four years.
27:54As part of the solution.
27:55Many CPDM officials thought that this was the solution.
28:00This was the major thing that is going to resolve the crisis.
28:03Now, we are close to four years on.
28:05And when you look at guns, guns are still coughing.
28:08You know, we see, you know, people being kicked out.
28:12Blood is still spilling.
28:13And there is ransom paid here and there.
28:16Of course, the minister made a revelation just last week that 20 million was paid when an administrative authority was kidnapped on his way into Canberra.
28:23So, I think that if you look at the reason why the special status was accorded to the Northwest and Southwest regions, it shows that the special status at this stage is still creeping.
28:35It is still to fully take off.
28:37Because, in as much as there is relative return to normalcy, in some areas, there is relative return to normalcy.
28:45It means the special status has not been able to resolve the problem that government presented us.
28:49Please, please, you will continue to talk.
28:51You know, when you talk to me, I am not debating.
28:55I am not debating.
28:56When you say there is relative return to normalcy, it is exactly.
29:01This is mostly in urban areas.
29:03My prophet is saying that we are making progress.
29:06That is synonymous to what you are saying.
29:08And we are saying that the progress is really slow.
29:11There is progress.
29:12But it is really slow.
29:13We think that if things are done...
29:16The progress is slow.
29:18I give you the statement and you are here responsible for that.
29:25There is progress.
29:28What if the special status were fully implemented?
29:33Will the progress not be fast?
29:35Tell us what we had to do for it to be fully implemented.
29:39That is the question we have.
29:40The administrative board are blocking some of the institutions from fully taking off.
29:44For instance, in the North West and South West, you mentioned education.
29:47The special status indicates that the regional assembly should participate in the formulation
29:54of national policies relating to the system of education.
29:58Now, do you think at this level where we are, these two structures in the two regions
30:03can make proposals that will be adopted by Yaoundé?
30:06Why not?
30:07But the proposals are not coming.
30:08Which means that maybe...
30:09Are they to come to you?
30:10The crisis in the North West and South West is starting because of legal and educational issues.
30:15Well, let me just ask.
30:16Were the propellers supposed to come to you to validate?
30:19No, because the way you speak,
30:21Prof is here, they are the ones doing the proposals and...
30:23We should know if there are proposals made already because the media has not reported on
30:27He is here to clarify and even educate some of us and those things.
30:38So, don't doubt when he is here.
30:40If you were still in Bamenda, while we would be asking questions, he is here in Yaoundé.
30:44Yeah, I think that, you know, society is what it is.
30:50There are those who want to go very fast.
30:52There are those who want to crawl and those who cannot even walk.
30:56Unfortunately, when you are a public servant, you have to accommodate all.
31:01Because they all have rights.
31:03And it is when you take...
31:05You know who determines the rate of movement and speed?
31:10It is the lowest and the slowest person in the chain.
31:15And I am not so sure that the slowest and lowest person in the chain is either the assembly or the governed.
31:22It is precisely the one who doesn't even know what this is all about.
31:27And yes, that is why I come here.
31:30So that we should have frank talk.
31:32If you go back to the law and something wonderful in that law, the public independent conciliator, as one of the important critical aspects of their mandate, is to propose to the head of state any amendments or modifications in the law and in the process.
31:55Did you know that?
31:56Did you know that?
31:57And they do that, sir.
31:58But we are not talking of a small place.
32:02We are talking of a community.
32:05And if you notice, strategically, the Northwest Regional Assembly brought on board the dialogue from the smallest administrative entity, from the subdivisions to the divisions and the region, through its peace and the realm initiative, precisely to get from the people what their thoughts are.
32:30And at our level, we send that to the representative states and the government.
32:39You can say it is not slow or it is fast, but that is a subjective and relative appreciation.
32:47I think that it is a good thing to converse about, but it takes all of us to get to the speed we want to go.
32:56And you can imagine with the diversity of thoughts and action why we are where we are.
33:03We are from the National Community Driven Development Program.
33:07We call that PNDP.
33:08For some of us who have been following development at the local level, where the community itself chooses what they want and it is prioritized and given them.
33:18Daniel, Daniel is Bruno Kanjo, is the Little Regional Coordinator of the National Community Driven Development Program.
33:27Tell us what's your experience, what has been happening, what you have been doing, how you have helped to develop the local areas in our country before we today have the general code of regional and local authorities.
33:48Thank you very much, Kilian, and permit me to quickly say a very warm greetings to the people of Ndom, where I'm coming from, because I'm from the field.
34:02We were executing the follow-up of the council in the process of preparing their council budget in program budgeting system.
34:15So we did a very good job there, so I wanted to say greetings to them in this very show.
34:24As you already said, they have said it.
34:27For me and for us, the decentralization process is effective.
34:33It's effective because considering the institution, the document, the text, we have a lot.
34:42Our challenge is to implement them.
34:44And I agree with Francis when he was naming some difficulties.
34:50I think it's normal to have some hindrances.
34:53But in the process of putting in place a decentralization, I think we have a lot to be proud of what is going on.
35:01I think that the challenge today is to continue to build the capacity of the municipality.
35:08And so far, we are working with the council to help them to have the skills.
35:15You know, everything starts with a plan.
35:19Before the implementation of the 2004 law, it was difficult to see a plan, document plan, a vision of the mayor.
35:30During the process of giving support to the council, we were assisting them to build up the council development plan in the participative manner.
35:41Giving the possibility of the chief at the local level to follow up the process.
35:47At the end of the exercise, I see the council to implement the first project.
35:52And we saw that almost in all the villages in our country, you might see one realization from PNDP.
36:02So I would like to say that out of projects, the council need to be accompanied.
36:10They need assistance.
36:11They need people who help them.
36:13Because all in all is a matter of coordination.
36:16You were naming kind of achievement.
36:19But at the end of the day, we don't see people coordinating the action of the state.
36:25And we think that around the council, we will continue to give this power by assisting the council in implementing their policies.
36:37You are answering a question I wanted to ask. It's good you're doing that.
36:41But you need to give me some details.
36:43You were very effective, as you've said.
36:46I don't know which part of Cameroon that does not know about the activities of the National Community Driven Development Programme, the PNDP.
36:57That was when we did not have the decentralization the way it is today with the ministry and with the delegates that the Chief Nassako Nassako Daniel is talking about.
37:06Now that we have that, what role again is the PNDP going to be playing when now the state has taken over to be doing what you used to do?
37:16That is a very good question.
37:19In 2004, the state decided to put in place a tool.
37:24The tool put in place by the state in 2004, it was to implement the decentralization.
37:32It was not to prepare the process.
37:35During Seoul, we were working to prepare the council.
37:39Now the decentralization is effective.
37:42We need to continue to assist them, train them.
37:48I will take an example.
37:50In the next months, we will have this batch of male will not be.
37:56Yeah, in 2026.
37:58If we see the records.
37:59That's 2026.
38:00Yeah, 60% of the mayor used to go and 60% of the mayor used to enter the batch.
38:07New ones.
38:08New ones.
38:09After municipal elections.
38:10When we see the participatory approach, we see that they will need to be constantly trained, assisted,
38:19so that they should be able not to restart again, but to continue the implementation of a smoothly process.
38:27Thank you very much.
38:28I was talking about the mayor, but I can also talk about the CFO, CDOs, who are all now municipal treasurers,
38:40secretary generals.
38:41They were well trained.
38:42I was in Bamenda at the time with Francis.
38:46I don't know if we can recall it.
38:49And at that time, the governor of the Northwest region was saying in 2015 that if we are in the peace in our region,
38:59it's due to the assistance PNDP has been giving to the council and the community.
39:05Because at the end of the day, it's not a matter of PNDP.
39:08They say, like Korean, who did it?
39:11They say, we are the one who did it.
39:13And we need to put it in the harm of the implementation of the decentralization, where at the end of the day, the people will say, we are the one who did it.
39:23We need to have this kind of participatory approach, not only for the past, but continue to have it in our future.
39:30Governance.
39:31Yes, there's a lot of governance problem in the way we manage our affairs in the country.
39:40So if improvement is done here, we are going to go places.
39:44Because if you have a deadline that was set for 2015 for all the ministries to transfer, to devolve power to the local authorities, we are nine years past 2015.
39:59Not all the ministries have devolved.
40:02Okay?
40:03So that's already a problem.
40:05You have the local public service, which has been talked here about.
40:10Under governance, I think that you should help us understand better.
40:14Under governance, you're talking about accountability.
40:17You're talking about competence.
40:20That's putting the right people in the right place.
40:23Yes.
40:24Where if you are given something to manage, you should come back and give account of that.
40:29You should give account.
40:30If not, you are sanctioned.
40:31You are sanctioned.
40:32Yes.
40:33Because in this governance aspect, there is a lot of corruption and embezzlement going on there.
40:38Like he said, when they send huge money to the local authorities, they need accountants to be able to help them.
40:45But because they don't have, the mayors who are politicians do what they can.
40:50Like Mr. Kanjo said, they have been training.
40:53In 2016, the breed of mayors will have now will go about 60%.
40:5960% comes in new.
41:02They begin another training process.
41:04So we shall continue training.
41:06That's what we have done for 28 years now.
41:09Training.
41:10So I would have, I would propose.
41:11I have so many friends who are mayors.
41:13Yes.
41:14Don't make them fear that they're going to go.
41:15No.
41:16Yes.
41:17I'm not stepping on their toes anyway.
41:18But I would propose that what government should do is let them put permanent staff, human resource at the level of the councils.
41:28Mayors come, mayors will go.
41:30But this permanent staff will remain.
41:31Exactly.
41:32Like Mr. Kanjo talked about community development officers.
41:36When he was in the northwest region, I know him very well.
41:38These were officers who were found in all the councils.
41:41Today the CDOs have become treasurers.
41:44They appointed treasurers, some safety generals.
41:47Meaning that they expertise their heart with that training.
41:51They are no longer in their position.
41:53So the mayors that will come will be new and will need this training.
41:57So let them put that permanent staff trained so that we don't have a continuous training seminar for mayors each time they come.
42:05It will not be good.
42:06Yes.
42:07Let me just end with this public service proposal.
42:09The local public service we are talking about.
42:11Recently, the Minister of Public Service published a list of about 3,000 civil servants dismissed.
42:17This is the result of centralization.
42:19How would a government have 3,000 workers who abandoned work for years and they don't know?
42:26And they come and crowd file that they have been dismissed.
42:29If there was effective decentralization as the law on decentralization stipulates.
42:36We will not have workers who stay away from work and the local authorities don't identify them.
42:40Because they will be able to recruit.
42:42The local authorities by this law are supposed to be the one to even recruit their staff.
42:47Two weeks you are not in your station.
42:50Construct their staff.
42:51Two weeks you are not in your station.
42:52Attention will be drawn.
42:53But since everything is centralized in Yaounde, it just suffices for a government staff to travel abroad.
42:59We saw the list of dismissed workers.
43:01There are workers, civil servants who are abroad for years.
43:04And they continue earning from the state purse.
43:06This all boils to that governance issue that I've talked about.
43:09So we must work on this aspect to come out of this standard.
43:12Thank you so much.
43:14And I think you've touched on the local public service.
43:19All of you.
43:20And you've also talked about with that, citing the National School for Local Administration, NASLA, which is functional, full option, based in Boya.
43:33And the director general whom I know, whom I invited to press R, and whom CRTV has invited to some other outlets, is covering that lack of local public service.
43:52It's covering that gap of having people who are not trained.
43:57I think you should have talked about that.
44:00I don't know.
44:01Let all of you talk about it.
44:04Okay, let me just chip something on it.
44:06Yes, Frank, beginning with you.
44:07Of course, NASLA has been created.
44:10And as other matters, I happen to be a lecturer in NASLA.
44:14But I tell you, anytime I'm given a course there, the worry of every student is, sir, after this, what next?
44:23And what do you tell them?
44:24They don't have a status.
44:25They don't.
44:26For sure.
44:27Those who will be leaving school coming 2025, they don't know where they will actually, they don't even know where they will fit.
44:33Where they will fit.
44:34That is where the problem is.
44:36So, the trading has been done.
44:38The possibility is, since we lack staff, even in the central administration of all the different administrations that we have.
44:49And councils are crying of lack of trained administration.
44:54Yes.
44:55Recruitment exams will be launched.
44:58But then, who are professionally trained.
45:01Yes.
45:02I think the answer should be easy for us.
45:04Of course.
45:05Yes.
45:06On that point.
45:07I want to say, I want to say that the Minister of Public Service and Administrative Reforms does not, doesn't have much to do with NASLA.
45:20NASLA.
45:21NASLA is under Mindevel.
45:23And most of the trainees who come from that place, or who go there for training, are from the councils.
45:33So, whether you go there, you come back, go back to your council.
45:37So, that is what the Minister offers this, some of the place.
45:41So, it is an institution that is training basically council workers.
45:46Not only council workers.
45:47So many other people come from that.
45:49That was the extension.
45:50That was the extension.
45:51I know that people, I'm saying that people come.
45:53Those who come, they have the right, when they have the opportunity somewhere, they can go.
45:58So, we are saying that NASLA is mostly of council.
46:02When they leave from there, they go back to that very institution.
46:06And the Minister, we are talking of good governance, just as the other colleagues are saying.
46:11That's the problem.
46:12I said that the problem with this extension is governance.
46:16If measures are put in place, supervised measures, control measures that are given to the right people, things will go right.
46:26I also said that if traditional rulers can have a direct MTN link with ministers, so that when a minister sent a project to a community, to a mayor, that mayor should have, that the minister can write to the chief of that community.
46:48I have sent a project of 100 million to your community.
46:52Make sure, chief, that project is executed.
46:56Give me feedback.
46:57If ministers and chiefs can have that directly, that bypasses these people.
47:01The mayors and maybe the provincial authorities.
47:04Chiefs will move well in this country.
47:06And then the next point is, we talk of...
47:09Before you go to the next point.
47:11Yes.
47:12There are so many ways of reporting anything in your community.
47:17Yes, there are so many ways.
47:18You can write anonymous.
47:20Yes.
47:21You can call CONAC.
47:22It's true.
47:23Attention to that.
47:24Yes.
47:25That is the National Anti-Corruption Committee to that.
47:26Yes, it is true.
47:27You can call so many other bodies that we have.
47:29Their numbers are known.
47:30Yes.
47:31And then their officials are around us.
47:32So just report first.
47:33Now we are trying to avoid the process where it's wasting time.
47:37Okay.
47:38That matter, if you follow that type of a process, it takes time before it goes where it wants to go.
47:45You know, because, like for example, when a council receives 12 projects a year from different ministries,
47:58they are executed.
47:59Delegates go to find out where and who is in charge of this contract.
48:05They are not informed.
48:07Yes.
48:08Then the mayor...
48:09Excuse me.
48:10Excuse me.
48:11See how many minutes we have left.
48:12Yeah.
48:13I'm going to end.
48:14So I am saying that when projects are executed in the council, the delegates and the chiefs have
48:24the right to make sure that the document which is going to Yaoundi.
48:29Because council have administrative account, budget account, all those documents that go to
48:35and that contain all those projects at the end of the year.
48:38That document, who are the people who signs the document?
48:41The mayor and the SDU.
48:43But chief, you know that at the same time...
48:45Yes.
48:46So when delegates don't sign to approve that, to confirm that the project coming from a minister is there.
48:52Chief!
48:53Chief!
48:54Chief!
48:55Chief!
48:56Chief!
48:57Chief!
48:58Chief!
48:59Chief!
49:00Chief!
49:01Chief!
49:02Chief!
49:03Chief!
49:04Chief!
49:05Chief!
49:06Chief!
49:07Chief!
49:08Chief!
49:09Chief!
49:10Chief!
49:11Chief!
49:12Chief!
49:13Chief!
49:14Chief!
49:15Chief!
49:16Chief!
49:17Chief!
49:18Chief!
49:19Chief!
49:20Chief!
49:21Chief!
49:22and revisit the organigrams and organizational chart of other ministry that are old that are
49:30outdated to renew that to know who is doing what we are talking about thank you thank you so much
49:35thank you so much thank you thank you we have understood now let me also assure you i let me
49:40assure you chief that the minister of uh decentralization and local development
49:47what is this program he has listened to you some of his close eights have also listened to you and
49:53taken notes what you have said will get to him okay so be rest assured thank you so much for for that
50:01yes frank uh the way out what can we do through decentralization that can solve our problems
50:10i think to me one of the key ways that decentralization can solve our problems is that
50:17the institutions that have been put in place to accompany decentralization should be allowed
50:22to continue to do the good work they have been doing a good example and much respect uh council
50:30executives should give much respect to their workers thank you so much we should not go uh time on end
50:35without salaries yes francis please just we don't have much yes we don't have much time my own another
50:40proposal is that government makes us believe that it lacks continuity we are talking of nasla before
50:47nasla there was sefam what has happened to all those graduates of sefam where all was all what they were
50:55taught become useless that they have been thrown away and they are readmitting themselves in sefam again
51:01he's electoral day he will attest that there are a lot of former sefam graduates who had to come back in
51:07nasla who learned what they had learned before please government help them when they are crying of this
51:12tough situation these are trainees languishing on the streets and the councils lack manpower thank you so
51:18much for that proposal yes mr kanjo way out of this what can we do in 40 seconds so that through
51:28decentralization we our problems are solved because some of them are social political and cultural
51:34decentralization needs to be effective and that is was the end of the the topic they need to be
51:42effective we need to foster collaboration and coordination between all the different actors because
51:51for now there's a lack of coordination all what was uh i like as hindrances is because there's a lack of
51:58coordination to fully implant implement the decentralization we just want to express our gratitude
52:06to all of you ladies and gentlemen for your time this year as we wish you a very happy new year 2025
52:15for this program there will be a broadcast on monday at 2 30 and cr tv premium on wednesday after the news in
52:22french at 9 pm and you can watch this program again we hope to give you uh the best stuff press r in 2024
52:31in the next two weeks thank you so much for watching
52:51you