- 5/23/2025
In this episode of 5ive Live, the focus is on the political war between the Congress and BJP over Operation Sindoor, with Rahul Gandhi attacking PM Modi and EAM Jaishankar on India's foreign policy.
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00:00Rajneeti over Operation Sindoor.
00:19Rahul foreign policy in free fall.
00:29BJP hits back. Rahul is Pakistan's poster boy.
00:40Pakistan parrots terror narrative.
00:50Civilians in crosshairs. Pakistan plays dirty again.
01:01Nepal route, new Pakistan pipeline. That is our top focus on 5Live.
01:12Good evening and welcome to 5Live. I'm Pooja Shalhi.
01:14Thank you so much for tuning in. Stay tuned because it's a power-packed show
01:18and we have several elements to help you understand what's been happening
01:21with regard to our neighbor nation and even the United States of America.
01:25Let's first begin with the top headlines on 5Live.
01:31Actress Tamanna Bhatia lands in...
01:35All right, India's financial strike on Pakistan.
01:38This is big news coming in at a juncture like this.
01:41Remember when India has decided to go ahead,
01:44especially with the IMF funding.
01:46IMF again releasing a tranche and trying to protect Pakistan.
01:51India calls out the bailout that IMF is indulging in.
01:55Even though this time it appears due to the backlash,
01:58IMF has gone ahead and given out conditions.
02:15Home Minister Bhatia hails the armed forces,
02:18especially with regard to Operation Sindhur.
02:21Precision strikes by India.
02:23That's the latest that has come in on Pakistan's demolished terror hubs.
02:27Now, Home Minister speaking up.
02:35Big revelations in the National Herald case.
02:37ED names Telangana Chief Minister Rewand Reddy,
02:40Karnataka Deputy Chief Minister DK Shivkumar.
02:42ED says Rewand Reddy instructed four netas to donate about 80 lakh rupees.
02:47DK Shivkumar and brother Suresh allegedly donated 2.5 crore rupees.
02:52A strong defiant response by DK Shivkumar also has come in.
03:02Actress Tamanna Bhatia's Mysore sandal soap deal faces backlash.
03:06Uproar.
03:07Why has a non-Karnataka face been chosen
03:11as the ambassador of a particular Karnataka-based soap,
03:15which is, of course, popular across the country, even the world?
03:17Kannada groups are staging a protest against her.
03:24The biggest international story at this hour,
03:26Donald Trump versus Harvard University.
03:29Travesties heating up.
03:30Trump's big strike on the university
03:32revokes the university's authorization to host international students.
03:37The biggest impact will possibly be on the Indian students.
03:41Nearly 24 hours since Prime Minister Narendra Modi was at the Bikaner base
04:07and, of course, made that very strong,
04:09assertive tone about Operation Sindoor becoming the new normal,
04:13India's new doctrine.
04:14Political war erupted,
04:15full-on political escalation of war of words
04:18between the Congress and the BJP.
04:20Congress charging at Prime Minister Modi
04:22and some of the strongest, nastiest remarks have come in
04:26in the past 24 hours.
04:27Rahul Gandhi has jumped in against External Affairs Minister S.J. Shankar
04:32and the government, especially the BJP leaders,
04:35have a lot to say in return.
04:36Amid all of this, a 1991 agreement reference has come in.
04:41Full-on charges on your screen there
04:43that have come in from both parties.
04:44Let's take a look at the special report.
04:46What happened?
04:47No unity right now with regard to Operation Sindoor.
04:50It's all about the rift.
04:53In Modi's veins,
04:57not blood,
05:00but hot vermilion is flowing.
05:04After Prime Minister Narendra Modi's fiery speech in Bikaner,
05:08Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi has launched a scathing attack.
05:14He asked the Prime Minister why his blood boils only in front of cameras
05:19and why he bowed before the US President.
05:24Rahul Gandhi posed three questions to External Affairs Minister S.J. Shankar
05:29and claimed that India's foreign policy has collapsed.
05:50Are we slaves to Trump?
05:52Or is the country a slave to Trump?
05:54That Trump is pressing a button from there and we will work here. Why?
06:19It is not prudent for us to answer that question.
06:49How many fighter planes have crashed in India?
07:19You have written about where our army will be deployed,
07:33where your navy will be deployed,
07:35how your air force will function,
07:37how it will exercise.
07:39Aren't all these things treason?
07:42Congress did not betray the country for the politics of the vote bank.
07:47They want a Bangladeshi vote bank, they want a Pakistani vote bank.
07:50The Indian government should start a case of treason.
07:53And the people who were going to make this agreement,
07:57whether they are alive or not is their own question.
08:00But in what situation did it happen?
08:02This should be told to the country and an FIR should be filed against Congress.
08:05This is an agreement signed in April 1991.
08:08This agreement is of peace time.
08:10In peace time, there should be no misunderstanding between the armies of the countries.
08:14This agreement is of peace time.
08:18First of all, what Rahul Gandhi was saying is the truth.
08:21Jai Shankar informed Pakistan and the BJP itself is confirming it.
08:26The agreement he is referring to is a peace time agreement.
08:30Jai Shankar informed Pakistan when there was a war-like situation.
08:33Meanwhile, AAP MP Sanjay Singh took a jibe at PM Modi and called him a vendor of vermillion.
08:40Modi ji is a salesman. He is not the Prime Minister of India.
08:45You die, you can get a vote in your name, they will sell it.
08:50So PM Modi is a creative person.
08:54In the name of death, in the name of murder, in the name of terrorism,
09:00he knows how to vote in the name of the death of soldiers.
09:04So he is a vendor of vermillion, he is a salesman of vermillion.
09:09And he has proven this today.
09:39Let me now bring in India Today's Mosmeh Singh on 5 live to help me understand what exactly is happening.
09:50Mosmeh, I see this assertive, aggressive strategy, some of the strongest remarks that have come in
09:56from Rahul Gandhi, from Imran Masood even and others.
09:59At this juncture, why do you think that on one side of the Congress is sending to the multi-party delegation,
10:06they're also amping up this attack against the BJP?
10:11Clearly, Pooja, there is a realisation in the Congress that the initial solidarity, notwithstanding,
10:19was in fact with the armed forces and not with the government.
10:25And perhaps a message had to be sent loud and clear to Pakistan is what they feel.
10:31But later on, the Congress realised that, you know, domestic politics,
10:37they could lose important ground with the BJP, you know, time and again drumming up national sentiments.
10:46The Modi government considered strong, very strong on national security issues.
10:52And with the recent conflict with Pakistan, could reap dividends for the BJP in the upcoming assembly elections.
10:59And also beef up the image of the Modi government.
11:03And clearly, you know, the Congress started asking those questions.
11:08The charge was led by Rahul Gandhi.
11:11And they said that, you know, international politics is a different ballgame.
11:17But the BJP government needs to answer some pertinent questions as far as compromising on India's dignity,
11:25integrity, dignity and in terms of security is concerned.
11:30So we've seen a turf war of sorts where tit for tat has followed with the BJP.
11:38Mostly stay on with me because yes, I noticed that among the attacks and response that have come in from the Bharatiya Janata Party,
11:46they've brought in the 1991 India-Pakistan agreement when it was a Congress, I supported government,
11:52Andhra Shekhar government was then the caretaker prime minister.
11:55It was during peacetime and it was about sharing information that joint military exercises will not be closed to strategic locations.
12:02True movement has to be mentioned, including longitude, latitude and more.
12:06And that core level and above, core commander level and above will have to have a certain understanding and information shared.
12:13Why do you think the BJP is using that argument, the 1991 India-Pakistan pact during peacetime,
12:19to charge against the Congress here?
12:26Very aggressive in terms of slamming Minister of External Affairs' remarks, recent remarks.
12:33And, you know, constantly the Congress has been badgering the BJP on this one,
12:40saying did Jaishankar compromise on India's security by diverging the details if his statement is true.
12:48The PIB has fact-checked that statement.
12:51The foreign secretary has said that no details were revealed to the Pakistan government or army
12:58until the first phase of Operation Sindhu was over.
13:01You know, there is a perception battle that is being fought.
13:05And that's one reason that the BJP now has let its most aggressive of leaders,
13:12who have often, you know, attacked or targeted Rahul Gandhi or have indulged in a world war,
13:19like Nishikant Dubey and others, to in fact take up this very political battle,
13:25where you leave the forces out.
13:27And it's about the Congress government versus the Modi government battle
13:32that's now waging on social media and also on political landscape.
13:38We can see that possibly for the global stage they are together.
13:41It's after all against Pakistan.
13:43But internally there still is a lot of bickering.
13:45Thank you very much, Mosmi, for helping us understand what possibly is the strategy of the Congress specifically,
13:51because they are leading the charge, Rahul Gandhi is leading it, and we'll be tracking that and more.
13:55But on the other hand, let me now bring you a very interesting report
13:59that our team of reporters from OSINT have managed to gather.
14:02What has been our first strike against Pakistan with regard to aftermath of the Pahalgam massacre?
14:07It's been the Indus water treaty that was put in abeyance.
14:10We analyzed the satellite images, including the data from Pakistan's dam and from India as well,
14:17on the water that was released and the water was stopped and how.
14:22Remember, Pakistan is full on on its propaganda mode, but we have the facts for you.
14:26When the Indus water treaty was put in abeyance, look closely on your screen, here's what's happening.
14:30The trends at Pakistan's Barla Dam, what does it show?
14:34When we look closely here, when the treaty was suspended or put in abeyance on 22nd April itself,
14:40the first decision, the first dip was reported in the next two days, but the next day in itself,
14:47when Pakistan started to say and claim everything is going to collapse in their country,
14:52the first release happened already within 24 hours.
14:56But in the next three days, there was another dip that was witnessed,
14:59and then barely about two to three days later, by the 10th of May, another release.
15:0416th May, you can see there's a certain dip, but by 22nd May, there was a third release.
15:09This is data for the Chenab River, and our source here is also from Pakistan, IRSA.
15:17Now let me tell you about the Mangla Dam, what happened here.
15:20Again, the treaty put in abeyance, the first dip reported on the 1st of May.
15:24By about 3rd of May, you can see the water has been released.
15:28Again a dip, again a release by the 10th of May, so it's not that India completely stopped the water.
15:34This is from the Jhelum River source.
15:37I want to then tell you about the Pakistan Kalabagh Dam.
15:41This is again, no noticeable trend really that was seen at this juncture.
15:46Remember, it also then continues to show that India released water consistently.
15:51Remember, India will never want to harm Pakistani civilians and its people.
15:55That's been our civilizational ethos.
15:57Pakistan does that, harms our civilians, kills them, targets them.
16:01But India needs to also send across a message that water and blood cannot flow together.
16:07Ankit Kumar, editor from OSINT, has also got us these details as I tell you about what happened
16:13with regard to how there was clearly the water that continued to be released.
16:18Ankit Kumar has joined me.
16:20He's been tracking different angles and layers that are coming in on this.
16:23And it is at a juncture.
16:25As we put out this map, and we'll keep putting out the other two maps as well,
16:28for you to understand the graph that yes, India did hold back on the water,
16:33but immediately also released it.
16:35We've decided to not store it.
16:37There are of course different issues here with regard to how much water can be stored, can be held back.
16:41But this is as much a message being sent out to Pakistan's establishment,
16:46and the government, and their military, and their ISI,
16:48that you keep attacking our civilians, our military installations,
16:54and somehow expect that India will continue to release water for you.
16:58Remember, India always respected the Indus water treaty.
17:02But the fact is, India has also released more than necessary share for Pakistan,
17:09in hope perhaps that at some level this kindness will help,
17:13only to realize we have a rogue nation as a neighbor that only continues to want to harm us
17:18and our innocent people like we saw in the border areas.
17:21So this is what we see, different Bangla Dam, Kalabagh Dam, and others,
17:26where there's been a consistent graph.
17:28There has been a dip recorded, but then there's been a release of the water too.
17:33So we'll go across to Ankit Kumar to help us understand what exactly is happening.
17:37These are satellite images.
17:39This is also with regard to the data that we have, first from Pakistan,
17:43but also, of course, corroborating with what India has.
17:46And you must have seen the visuals, especially in the Jammu region, remember,
17:49when the water level dipped to a certain extent, when even people were seen walking.
17:54This is all a messaging, remember, even before Operation Sindoor had happened.
17:58Look at that.
17:59So now we have the images on your screen as well to help you understand
18:02that before Pehlgam, of course, the water level was massive.
18:05This is the Baglihar Dam.
18:06This is in India.
18:07This is with regard to the Jammu region.
18:09And then when the flushing operations that took place.
18:13So these are some of the images to help you understand
18:15what precisely has been India's strategy and decision as well.
18:19Let me take you through to the Kishanganga Dam as well.
18:22What does it look like?
18:23At this juncture, remember, this was how it was before the water treaty suspension.
18:28Then all gates were opened as well.
18:32Remember this, that India simply did not just stop the water
18:35because that could have led possibly to an immediate decision.
18:39Despite the massacre, despite all that we faced,
18:42India, remember, has continued to follow a certain civilizational ethics
18:48to ensure that yes, a messaging is being sent, but it has to be precise where it hurts.
18:53So how it was before the suspension and when the gates were opened eventually as well.
18:57So perhaps a day or two where you can see the dip that has been recorded.
19:00This is from the Kishanganga Dam.
19:02May 1, when only one gate was opened.
19:05By the 6th of May, all gates were opened as well.
19:08There's not been a consistent stop of the water release.
19:13Again, May 14, one gate opened.
19:15By the 21st of May, all gates were opened of the dam,
19:19the water that was released then into Pakistani territory.
19:23These are different layers that we are helping you understand.
19:25It's not just about a graph or a satellite image.
19:27We are corroborating it from all angles to help you understand
19:31what has been India's strategy.
19:33That's Baglihar Dam, Jammu region,
19:35how it was before the Pehalga massacre that Pakistan sponsored,
19:39and then the flushing operations that happened at that region.
19:45All right, so at this juncture, remember, as Ankit Kumar joins me,
19:49Ankit, help explain this.
19:51What does the graph mean?
19:52What are these images that you've accessed?
19:54These are very pertinent.
19:55I do believe that it strongly debunks Pakistan's propaganda.
20:07Ankit, if you can hear me,
20:08we are taking our viewer through the images that have come in
20:11from the Baglihar Dam, the Kishanganga Dam,
20:13and also the graphs that the OSINT team has sent to us
20:16specifically with regard to how there's been, yes, a dip,
20:19but then the water is being released.
20:21In fact, in one of the dams,
20:24there's not been any noticeable trend
20:26when we looked at how India continued to release the water.
20:30So there was a messaging that was sent out,
20:32but the Indus flow also was very clear to see,
20:35especially at the Kalabagh Dam,
20:37there's been no noticeable trend of the dip.
20:40Ankit, go ahead.
20:43Well, Pooja, when it was first announced
20:46that India will be pausing the Indus water treaty,
20:49many believed that it would be like a tap-like situation.
20:52India will close the taps and the waters will dry out,
20:54but that's not how it works.
20:57So what we have done is we have analysed the data
21:00of past 30 days.
21:01Remember, it's been one month since India retaliated
21:04against the gruesome Pahalgam Dare attack,
21:07and now we have enough data to kind of establish
21:10what India has been doing
21:11and how exactly it is going to affect Pakistan.
21:14So this is how it works.
21:15There's something called the flushing of dams.
21:18What happens is you store water to your best capacity.
21:22Remember, this is the season, the heat season,
21:25where the glaciers melt.
21:26So our ability, India's ability to hold water
21:29is very much limited.
21:31So we can only hold that much water.
21:33So what we do is we hold as much water as we can
21:37and then we flush it.
21:39Remember how it hurts Pakistan.
21:41For the past six decades, past 60 years, Pooja,
21:45the entire irrigation system in Pakistan,
21:48majority of it, majority of its hydropower projects
21:51are based on this information, this flow of information,
21:54this certainty that this much water will come
21:57during this time,
21:58and everything in Pakistan is planned according to the same.
22:01So your seasons, your crop seasons, your power projects,
22:04everything is based on this certainty
22:06that this much water is expected in the next few days.
22:09What India has done is India is now breaking that cycle.
22:12Pakistan, on the other hand, their hydropower projects,
22:15their canals, they don't have an idea
22:19how much water is going to come when.
22:21So this selective instrument of flushing off rivers,
22:26flushing off dams is now being used as an instrument
22:29in retaliation for the terrorist attack.
22:31And the satellite pictures is now corroborated
22:33with the official data that Pakistan releases.
22:36Remember, Pakistan releases how much water
22:39it is receiving from India's side
22:41and how much water it is now releasing.
22:44So, Ankit, can we say here that India managed
22:47to send out a certain messaging,
22:49but also, like has been our ethics,
22:51we are not going to hurt the civilians
22:54or the population or the public
22:55that Pakistan instead has done for our people consistently.
22:59This is not going to hurt the civilians directly,
23:03but the policy makers in Pakistan
23:05who are deeply relying on the idea of bailout puja,
23:08they will have to consider,
23:10if their hydropower projects don't work
23:12as it has been planned,
23:14if they do not have enough certainty of water
23:18to plan their irrigation systems,
23:20it will be a concern for them.
23:22So from visual eyes you will see
23:24there are days when water is there in Chenab,
23:27in Indus River, but the policy makers,
23:30the policy makers sitting in Islamabad,
23:33they will kind of feel that they don't have
23:35enough data to plan ahead.
23:37So their irrigation system,
23:38their hydropower projects,
23:39they are going to suffer.
23:41And remember, this is heat season.
23:42What is going to happen in dry season,
23:44in September, October,
23:45that is when the scarcity of water
23:47actually is reflected in provinces such as Sindh.
23:50You know, Pakistan already is facing problems
23:53along with Punjab.
23:54So there is domestic politics at play in Pakistan.
23:57So maybe in the next three, four months,
23:59you will see the impact of it.
24:00The civilian population directly
24:02is not in harm's way.
24:03There is no flooding being caused,
24:05but you know, the project, the civilian project
24:08that the government is,
24:09Pakistani government is overseeing,
24:11those projects are under threat.
24:13All right, Ankit.
24:14Well done.
24:15Thank you for getting us these images.
24:16It is to put in perspective,
24:17when we talk about the Indus water treaty
24:19in abeyance, what does it mean?
24:21How much of water has India really decided
24:23to take a dip on and how much was released?
24:26And now all of this as evidence on your screen.
24:29And remember, it's on the policy makers of Pakistan.
24:32This is not on India.
24:33India needs to send out a messaging,
24:35after all, at least in 2025.
24:37We'll be tracking more on that for you.
24:39Let's move on now.
24:40And I want to take you across the water.
24:42Across the border, what's happening is Pakistan,
24:45and this is not a surprise,
24:46but this is just corroborating further evidence,
24:49is echoing the sentiments of terrorists.
24:52And when I say Pakistan, I mean it's military.
24:54That's really the deciding factor.
24:55It's not the civilian leadership.
24:57It's the Pakistan military that often decides
24:59what to say.
25:00Remember what then General Asim Munir had said
25:02about the two-nation theory,
25:04about Muslims being more superior than Hindus,
25:07and why this has been followed as an ideology
25:10for Pakistan military.
25:11Now, referring to India's suspension
25:14of the Indus Water Treaty,
25:15Pakistan's Director General, ISPR,
25:18he's the military spokesperson.
25:19He's the one who pushes the narrative ahead.
25:22On camera, he was caught threatening India,
25:25saying that if the flow of the water,
25:28referring to the treaty,
25:29if the flow of the water is stopped,
25:31we will stop your breath.
25:33This was not in secret, a closed-room conversation.
25:36He was speaking at a university.
25:38He's interacting with the students.
25:40He's telling the teenagers of Pakistan,
25:42if they stop our water,
25:43we'll stop their breath.
25:44A man in uniform.
25:45Just compare this one
25:47to how the Indian military officials speak,
25:50the tone, tenor, professionalism they have,
25:52and this comes in from a Pakistan military spokesperson.
25:55But that's not the biggest shocker.
25:56The shocker is exactly this statement
26:00of the Pakistan DG-ISPR
26:03was spoken by terrorist Hafiz Saeed.
26:06Exact statement.
26:08Can you believe it?
26:09A Pakistan military spokesperson
26:11speaking what Hafiz Saeed is saying.
26:13They are on the same page.
26:14They have the security of the military at ISI,
26:17but it's just a reminder for us all
26:19of how possibly the military of Pakistan
26:22and now terrorists are speaking the same language.
26:25Let's listen in first to the DG-ISPR,
26:27then we'll listen to Hafiz Saeed.
26:29You decide.
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46:44Pakistan.
46:45Pakistan.
46:46Pakistan.
46:47If they provide support for designated terrorist organizations, they wouldn't be allowed to
46:52enter the United States.
46:53The Trump administration wants to remove students who've provided support to designated terrorist
46:59organizations like Hamas, and they want to be able to know which students have done that.
47:04So they want access to disciplinary records and to videos of protests.
47:09At Harvard, almost 6,800 students, 27% of the entire student body comes from other countries.
47:17This is considerably higher than 19.6% in 2006.
47:22Like many American universities, it relies on their tuition payments, which are often
47:27full fee, several times higher than what American students pay.
47:31In 2024, nearly 22% of Harvard's income was from the fee structure.
47:37A foreign student pays up to $87,000 a year in fees.
47:41This is inclusive of the tuition, boarding, and lodging.
47:44The university are currently 788 Indian students registered at Harvard's academic program.
47:50The Trump administration has, however, left a window open, saying Harvard can be allowed
47:54international students again if it provides information on six issues within 72 hours.
48:00First, all details of illegal activities by non-immigrant students in past five years.
48:07Second, video evidence of violent activities by these students.
48:11Third, video evidence of threats made to others by non-immigrant students again.
48:17Fourth, all details of deprivation of rights of other students.
48:21Fifth, all disciplinary records of non-immigrant students for past five years.
48:26And sixth, all evidence of protest activities by students on the campus.
48:31The Harvard University has hit back, calling the government's move unlawful and said the
48:36school is committed to maintaining its ability to host international students.
48:41I know that people think Harvard has over $50 billion in endowment and they have the
48:46status and this history.
48:48That's all true.
48:49But the federal government is bigger and richer and will prevail here in this fight.
48:54And I think Harvard understands that.
48:57And really all that they're doing is positioning for a better deal.
49:01And so the litigation that Harvard has been pursuing is just to try to get a better agreement
49:06with the administration.
49:08The Donald Trump administration has already pulled $9 billion in federal research funding
49:13from the Harvard and threatened to revoke its tax-exempt status, citing concerns about
49:18anti-Semitism and TEI.
49:20The order is also warning to other colleges to fall in line.
49:25U.S. universities have more than 1 million international students in total who contribute
49:30nearly $44 billion to the American economy.
49:33Among them, more than half are from India and China.
49:37While Harvard is expected to meet the six conditions laid out by the Trump administration,
49:41students are faced with increased uncertainty.
49:46Bureau Report, Business Today Television.
50:06Go inform Tim Cook of Apple.
50:09I expect their iPhones will be sold in the U.S.A., will be manufactured and built in
50:15the U.S.A., not in India.
50:17And if that does not happen, a tariff of at least 25% must be paid by Apple to the U.S.A.
50:26This is a huge, huge comment that has come in from Donald Trump.
50:30So, huge news coming in.
50:37What does it mean about India-U.S.A. relationship?
50:40India now U.S.A., President telling Tim Cook, if you sell or manufacture these phones, built,
50:47they have to be built in the U.S.A.
50:48If it is done in India, you pay up a tariff of 25% to the United States of America.
50:55Will that have Apple pulling back on its investments, and especially with regard to
51:00manufacturing and assembling in India?
51:02That, remember, was a huge business investment plan that India was looking at.
51:12So a lot of consistent developments coming in from the United States of America.
51:15We'll be tracking that and more.
51:17And how will India ensure that our domestic interests are saved too?
51:21On that note, I'm wrapping up Five Live.
51:23Thank you very much for watching.
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