Everything I Have Has Burned to the GROUND! CALL IN SHOW

Stefan Molyneux

"Looking for advice on how to move forward after losing a house in a wildfire. I am a 32 year old man with a wife and one year old daughter. My family all got out safely, and thank God for that. House was a total loss.  "I am now working with our insurance company on a claim and will be working to rebuild. I am thankful my daughter is probably not old enough to remember this or feel any sense of loss over the house. For her it will be a cool story when she gets older. But there was a ton of sentimentally valuable stuff in there that is irreplaceable, like my wife’s wedding dress and a bunch of other wedding related things, probably a hundred books marked up with my personal notes and underlines while I was reading them, and much more.  "I am also thankful to have a good church community and a lot of people who are eager to help us get back on our feet. This is the most devastating disaster I’ve ever experienced. How do I get it together and move forward from this? How do I keep my wide comforted and make sure she is okay? How do I get my mind right for navigating insurance claims and the rebuilding process? Any help from philosophy would be appreciated."  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK! https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!  You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025

Transcript

00:00:00Yeah, um, let's see. Well, this was last Friday. So this was a week ago

00:00:05My wife and I lived in this house out in the country in the I'll just say in the central u.s. And

00:00:16Well a wildfire came through I was out of town

00:00:19Which made it worse. I was with some guys from church and a are supposed to be at a men's retreat

00:00:27For our church in the next stayed over like five hours away, so I was out there

00:00:35Wildfire came through yeah, and my wife I start started getting calls from my wife on the way out there

00:00:43She said, you know, there's I'm starting to see a lot of smoke like I'm getting a little bit nervous

00:00:48It's not super bad yet. So I told her

00:00:52Excuse me, so I told her, you know, just keep an eye on it. I'll keep an eye on the emergency

00:00:59Emergency alerts and stuff like that online. I didn't see anything

00:01:03Immediately in our area. So I thought at first it was like

00:01:06No smoke from other fires around us. That wasn't immediately next to us because that can happen. Yeah

00:01:13So, um, so then a couple hours later I get another call from her saying the smoke's getting worse

00:01:19I'm getting really nervous now. I don't feel like it's safe here. So I said, you know

00:01:23Go ahead and you know, if you don't feel safe there get out, you know, go to your mom's

00:01:30Her mom lives in

00:01:32In the city like an hour away from us. We're out in the country or we were

00:01:37So she got out and then so later that night

00:01:42I started getting calls from my neighbors

00:01:45Saying it burned your chicken coop

00:01:49It's up next to your house

00:01:51like

00:01:52Getting in the door like one of them was trying to fight the fire both of them were actually over there at different times

00:01:58trying to fight the fire and

00:02:02Yeah, I was getting calls from my neighbors just you know giving me updates on the situation like I'm trying to put it out

00:02:09It's getting worse I don't think I can get it under control and

00:02:13Ultimately, they were not able to stop it. So

00:02:16it got up in there got up in the walls and got up in the ceiling insulation and

00:02:22Yeah took the whole thing out

00:02:24So as soon as as soon as I found out it was threatening the house directly we were headed back

00:02:29you know, we turned around and

00:02:32Booked it back home, but we were still five hours away. So by the time we got there it was already pretty much done burning

00:02:39so

00:02:41Yeah, that was I can pretty definitively say that was the worst day of my life so far Wow

00:02:49Okay, so I mean you lost

00:02:52Give me give me the list of all the things that are

00:02:55vaporized gone damaged beyond repair

00:02:58Yeah, well basically everything we owned so like I mean I had you know, a couple changes of clothes with me for the weekend trip

00:03:07Some toiletries my wife was able to save fortunately our box full of important paperwork like

00:03:14insurance and mortgage paperwork and social security cards and all that

00:03:21So that was you know good thinking on her part but other than that it was like everything and

00:03:27So like the thing I'm most upset about losing is

00:03:31My books like I had probably a hundred books in there that were all when I read books I'd mark them up I like

00:03:39underline things and write in the margins and

00:03:41Do all that so I can replace the books, but I can't ever get back

00:03:46My record of what I was thinking when I read the books. Hmm, so

00:03:51that's a

00:03:53That's tough to lose. Um

00:03:55There was also you know

00:03:58Lots of sentimentally valuable stuff in there like my wife's wedding dress my my wedding suit

00:04:04a bunch of other wedding related stuff

00:04:08You know gifts from people that we've gotten over the years

00:04:16Besides all the

00:04:18you know all the furniture the bed the

00:04:21all the appliances like everything in there was

00:04:25totally destroyed

00:04:27And your chickens

00:04:30All but one of them were

00:04:33We're gone

00:04:35We found any other any other pets

00:04:39We had two dogs actually that both made it they were okay

00:04:43And we also have we live on 20 acres out there

00:04:47And we have a small herd of cows. So all the cows made it and the dogs

00:04:52But all but one of the chickens got toasted

00:04:55All but one of the chickens right all but one of them, yeah, okay. All right

00:05:01Photos other documents books writing how you said the books of course

00:05:05But writing or any journals diaries like anything else that was sort of major that that is irreplaceable

00:05:12Yeah, I had notebooks full of notes on the books. I read

00:05:16I do I have a podcast a history podcast. So I had a lot of books that I was reading for that

00:05:23Notebooks full of notes on those

00:05:26Like that kind of thing. So yeah, okay

00:05:31All right

00:05:34And how long ago was this a

00:05:36Week ago week ago. I'm of course. I'm incredibly sorry. That's this is a good it's devastating. I completely yeah

00:05:43It's the it's the most devastating thing that's ever happened to me in my life. Like it's

00:05:48It's surreal

00:05:50Right, right that to even think about like I'm not even

00:05:54I'm it hasn't really even sunk in yet that you know life is just completely different now

00:06:00So, I mean obviously financially speaking you have the insurance and you can rebuild I guess over time. Is that right?

00:06:08Yeah

00:06:09Yeah, we're actually

00:06:11So we we were insured really well on this house and we're getting a lot of help from our our church parish

00:06:19And my employer is helping me out a lot which is nice and

00:06:24like our we're getting like

00:06:27tens of thousands of dollars in donations from

00:06:32People we barely even know sometimes like friends and family just you know sharing out

00:06:38donation requests on our behalf and it's um

00:06:42that part of it is a huge relief to not be in

00:06:45In money trouble during all this like we're gonna have plenty of money to do what we need to do and rebuild so

00:06:53That part that part is a huge relief

00:06:56right, so

00:06:57the rebuilding pot I assume that if there was a big bunch of fires then

00:07:03Rebuilding is going to take a time and be expensive because everybody's trying to do at the same time, right?

00:07:09Yeah, that's true

00:07:11so do you have a

00:07:13Timeframe or have you contacted anyone or do you I mean, when do you get a roof over your head again?

00:07:19Well, we we're staying

00:07:22We're staying at the house of a guy that we know from church

00:07:27He actually he's a

00:07:30retired

00:07:31doctor like he has

00:07:34multiple houses and he's not staying in this one, so

00:07:37We're staying in his place for the time being

00:07:39insurance does give us money for

00:07:43Temporary housing like that's part of our coverage. So

00:07:47We're good we're good on a roof over our head temporarily but as far as

00:07:52Rebuilding the old house. I I really couldn't say how long that's gonna take. I haven't even started the process of no

00:07:57It's been a week right? Yeah, I'm acting contractors and all that. So yeah, we did

00:08:01I did go out there and start cleaning up a little bit

00:08:06But yeah, I don't really know how long it's gonna take to rebuild

00:08:09Right. Okay, and two kids

00:08:13One daughter she's just over a year old. Oh

00:08:18Okay. Okay, and obviously she's fine. She was with you guys, right? Yeah

00:08:24Yeah, my wife got her out. So that's that's the most important thing is that they were both. Okay

00:08:29Yeah, the the day could have been a whole lot worse, right?

00:08:32Yes, absolutely, right. Okay

00:08:36All right, and

00:08:39What's your major

00:08:41Question I certainly have my thoughts but it's your conversation to direct. So what's the major areas I can help you with?

00:08:48well, I thought first of all, I you know, if

00:08:53Thought I could see if you know philosophy maybe could unburn my house first of all, but

00:08:59But besides that, you know, I figured you would make that plan

00:09:02No, and let's let's you let's put that on the side burner for a moment

00:09:06And let's just let's assume that that's a plan B and what's plan a yeah

00:09:10yeah, um, well, I guess I'm just looking for like

00:09:15I'm trying to wrap my mind around this new situation and figure out how what my mindset should be going forward

00:09:23How I should handle

00:09:25Making sure my wife is okay and making sure that we're in good shape as far as planning goes for rebuilding

00:09:33Like this is totally uncharted territory for me and I'm not

00:09:40I'm very uncertain about the future. Let's put it that way. Right, right. Okay, so

00:09:49It's your major the major ways in which I can help you is to try to help

00:09:56emotionally process this

00:09:59Devastating fire. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. You are a Christian man

00:10:05Yes

00:10:06so

00:10:07my understanding is that you have to try and find the good in everything that happens and the

00:10:13Lessons and the growth in everything that happens, right?

00:10:16right

00:10:18So just off the top of my head

00:10:23You're getting a real sense of how much you're loved in the community, right?

00:10:27Yes, absolutely. We are you wouldn't have that other one?

00:10:30I can't imagine what this would be like if we didn't have any friends like it would be

00:10:38Much more devastating, right?

00:10:41So

00:10:44So seeing the community pull together is an absolutely beautiful thing I

00:10:51Mean the power of faith the power of community the power of love for you and your family the power of generosity

00:10:57You're forging relationships here. They're gonna last the rest of your life

00:11:04So that's a pretty powerful thing, right

00:11:06Yeah, yes it is now again, it's not like we want these bad things to happen

00:11:12But our challenge is to find the good in the bad

00:11:16Otherwise, we're just at the mercy of every bad thing and can't find anything positive, right?

00:11:23The house that you you bought the house from somewhere someone else originally, right

00:11:29Yes, so you get to rebuild it exactly as you want

00:11:36Was the house big enough if you want more kids

00:11:40Yeah, it was

00:11:42If we had I mean we do plan to have more kids. I would I would say it was big enough to where we could

00:11:49comfortably have

00:11:51four or five kids

00:11:53But if we had any more than that, I think

00:11:55We would probably want a bigger place

00:11:57I mean like most houses that you buy rather than build I assumed that there were things that you wanted to change

00:12:03Yeah, I can think of a few things I mean just your wife

00:12:07I'm gonna get all kinds of sexist here, but doesn't your wife get to design an entirely new kitchen?

00:12:13Yes, she does. I mean she said

00:12:17Women terraforming about that is something that men cannot comprehend

00:12:22Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's fine. She can't comprehend why I need another microphone for my studio

00:12:26That's fine, but I can't comprehend why the backsplash is so offensive to my wife sensibilities. That's just a

00:12:32Cosmic mystery that God himself would shake before so so your wife gets to design a whole new kitchen

00:12:39Which is apparently what some women live for for quite some time

00:12:42If I ever want to have an exciting conversation with my wife, I say to her

00:12:46Hey, so what do you think of the kitchen as it stands?

00:12:49right

00:12:50Every list everything every problem is is

00:12:53Detailed and I'm like to me I grew up in a you know, crappy government apartment

00:12:57So for me everything that's not a crappy government apartment is a paradise

00:13:01But many things can be but you know, as long as she keeps her improve everything to the kitchen and not me

00:13:06I think that's that's good. That's probably a good thing. So so you can do all of that

00:13:12and

00:13:14Your daughter while quite young right depending on how long this takes

00:13:17She might get a chance to have some input into the kind of room she gets right

00:13:22Maybe she wants bunk beds built into the wall

00:13:24Maybe like in terms of cool things that you could do that would be kind of fun for her, right?

00:13:31So love of the community again the chance to redesign

00:13:37Everything and

00:13:42You know, this is it's an easy thing to say but it is important to remember that it's just stuff

00:13:50Yeah, it's just stuff now the books I know that's yeah go ahead on that note

00:13:56this is something I've been thinking about over the last week is like

00:14:02You know

00:14:03Are we?

00:14:04well

00:14:05we went to church last Sunday and our priest was talking about this a little bit and talking about how God allows these things to

00:14:10happen and

00:14:13I've been thinking part of it could be God teaching me to be less attached to stuff

00:14:20Everything get thrown out man. Everything gets thrown out. Yeah, eventually right and the other the other thought I had was

00:14:27so on Saturday

00:14:29This happened last Friday on Saturday

00:14:33There were a bunch of people our whole area was hit pretty hard by this like there were hundreds of homes burned to the ground

00:14:40yeah, and

00:14:42There were one of the one of the small towns near us

00:14:46There were people, you know in the like a gas station parking lot handing out

00:14:51You know food and clothes for people affected by the fires

00:14:53And so I stopped by and got some stuff for us because we're all you know

00:14:57mostly fresh out of clothes or we were a week ago and

00:15:01and

00:15:03That got me thinking I'm like, you know

00:15:05There's a lot of stuff in that house that I cared about and I really didn't want to lose

00:15:08but on the other hand, there's a lot of

00:15:11Junk that I really didn't care about

00:15:14Spring clean like from the fiery wind

00:15:17Yeah, and I'm and I'm like, you know, how many clothes did I have stashed away in some closet that I could have donated?

00:15:24to want something like this

00:15:27At some point and I just never made the effort to do it and it's like all that stuff has gone to

00:15:33Didn't care about. Yeah, it's it's a

00:15:37relief of a burden in a way

00:15:39so worst day of your life, that's a powerful statement and

00:15:44It seems to me that if if a fire where you're fully insured, it's the worst day of your life

00:15:50You've lived a pretty charmed life

00:15:53I'm not I'm not kidding about that

00:15:55You

00:15:57Yeah

00:16:00So, I mean your wife's healthy you're healthy your daughter's healthy

00:16:05You have insurance you can rebuild and in some ways it will be better. It's your house now

00:16:10It's just a house you had before now. It's your house going forward, right?

00:16:14And you've you're forging stronger bonds with people in the community

00:16:18You're learning the power of faith and generosity and charity, which I'm sure you will pay forward

00:16:23Going forward. I'm not saying you haven't in the past, but it'll probably be even more important going forward and

00:16:32It is always the question and it's a very foundational question when bad things happen the question is

00:16:41Do you compare it to it not happening or what could be worse?

00:16:46You

00:16:48Right, like if you get sick, let's say you get sick and you have a path to getting better, right?

00:16:56Well, do you compare

00:16:58Getting sick to not getting sick or do you compare getting sick but getting better to getting sick and not getting better?

00:17:05And

00:17:13That yes, I guess you question so if you're going to compare things to nothing bad happening

00:17:19everything bad is

00:17:21really bad

00:17:23If you compare bad things happening to could be worse

00:17:27there's a

00:17:29Buoyancy to that if that makes sense

00:17:32Yeah, I see what you're saying. So

00:17:35Do you do you think that you compare this to well if this just hadn't happened at all?

00:17:40This is a dead negative, which of course it is, right?

00:17:43Or do you say holy crap, man, if you're gonna have a fire nobody got hurt. Nobody got killed

00:17:51And

00:17:52We're insured and thank goodness. We did the right and prudent thing and bad things are gonna happen in life

00:17:57You know, it's like if you have

00:18:00You know, like I'm I'm in my 50s. So there are occasional, you know twinges and you know, whatever

00:18:05In negative things that can happen

00:18:08nothing, nothing major, but you know, just

00:18:10Calculative like little things. Oh, I

00:18:13My cough is a little tender or you know, whatever right? And and so if I say well geez compared to my 20s. I'm a wreck

00:18:21Right. I mean that I'm gonna then I have a standard called my 20s and everything is just a massive decline from that

00:18:26So to speak right or if I say, you know, man for 58, um, I've got no chronic conditions. I've got no arthritis

00:18:33I've got no a back pain 40% of men have like back pain, right? And so, you know, pretty pretty good, right?

00:18:40so it

00:18:42There is a huge amount in in life that is depending on the big question of philosophy, which is compared to what?

00:18:50Right. So if you I mean you've had this terrible fire, of course compared to not having this terrible fire. It's a disaster

00:18:59However, there's other comparisons to be made

00:19:04Yeah

00:19:09So have you had not being insured or having not being insured people dying people getting yeah, I

00:19:18Mean it can happen even after the fire you're in there poking around at a wall collapses

00:19:23I don't know what it looks like, but you know something like they could land on you or whatever, right?

00:19:27Or you had a beloved dog that that died or or both I guess you said to to that made it right

00:19:36So

00:19:38You weren't you weren't there and your wife and daughter got out totally fine

00:19:47So the disaster missed everything but the stuff

00:19:50You

00:19:55So have you had a charmed life have you been peculiarly lucky I mean what decade of life are you in

00:20:01I'm in my early 30s early 30s. Okay, so you're a relatively young man

00:20:05So have you had a pretty charmed life that that this is the worst thing?

00:20:11I mean, I I think so I think I

00:20:15Think well

00:20:16I think the reason I called it the worst thing is because I was making

00:20:19The comparison to it not happening like you were just talking about like I wasn't comparing it to

00:20:25You know, what could have been worse?

00:20:31But I mean now that you put it that way it seems like it's not really the worst thing

00:20:36It's like well, no because you would have had that comparison to other things as well, right?

00:20:41Like everything would be compared to nothing bad happening

00:20:47Yeah, I see

00:20:50So if this is the worst thing that's happened to you then that would be compared to other

00:20:59It would be compared to like let's say that

00:21:02You lost a dog when you were 12

00:21:04But you would also compare that to not losing your dog when you were 12 or something like that, right?

00:21:08so if you've had the standard that perfection is the key and

00:21:12Everything that deviates that it's just this massive net negative then you would have had that standard as a whole in your life

00:21:19If that makes sense

00:21:21Yeah, that makes sense so

00:21:25What let give me the second and third bad and I'm not like I'm certainly not saying this isn't the worst thing that's happened to

00:21:33You I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying though is

00:21:36What are the other things that you're comparing it to

00:21:40That's a good question

00:21:45But there's my daughter, thank you for telling me I thought your wife just had a very high voice

00:21:56Oh, um, I I would have trouble

00:22:00Ranking other things to be honest. I mean, there's nothing that's really comparable as far as like if the comparison is

00:22:09This happened versus this didn't happen. Like there's nothing

00:22:13Really? I can think of that is even close

00:22:16to losing a house on a fire

00:22:20That I've experienced like I mean I've had a couple of bad breakups in my

00:22:26early 20 early to mid 20s

00:22:30But those were like I wouldn't even put those in the same category really

00:22:36Yeah, I can certainly understand that

00:22:39so

00:22:40You've not had any health issues that are significant people. You love don't have health issues that are significant

00:22:47So, I mean you've seen seem to have dodged some bullets, which is I mean not a bad thing. This is good

00:22:52Yeah, I've had I've had a couple of pretty pretty serious injuries

00:22:57Like I tore a muscle like I tore a major muscle one time lifting

00:23:02I'm a I was a I was competitive and and strong man for a while

00:23:08And I had a pretty major injury, so I guess that's kind of the same category

00:23:14But no chronic health issues or anything like that

00:23:18And I don't think your parents are in good health either and so on

00:23:22Yeah, they're in good health

00:23:24and grandparents

00:23:27Well, only I only have one surviving grandparent left. I

00:23:33Was never particularly close to any of my grandparents

00:23:37But um, one of them died when I was

00:23:41probably

00:23:4210 or 11 I would say

00:23:45And two more have passed on since one of them's in her 90s now my grandma's in her

00:23:51Mid to late 90s, so she won't be too much longer either

00:23:55Good okay, and

00:23:58So your parents are together and in good health and you've had good health, I don't really count the torn muscle, I mean

00:24:05Because that's just the risk of exercise, right? That's not

00:24:08It's not that's not bad luck to some degree. That's just you know

00:24:12natural risk, right

00:24:16So this is this is your first major disaster

00:24:20Yes, right, okay, so so that makes makes sense to me

00:24:27Because and tell me about your relationship with the books

00:24:33With the sorry, sorry, just a second

00:24:39Can you watch her for a little bit, thank you. I love those sounds I really do

00:24:45I

00:24:49Love that. Yeah. Yeah, she's uh

00:24:52she's just lately gotten really good at walking to which is a

00:24:57Treat like yeah, it's it's super cute to watch him waddle around with their little toddler legs. Like it's the cutest thing

00:25:04Yeah, it's like more vertical motion than horizontal, right?

00:25:08Yeah, yeah

00:25:10Um, I'm sorry, what was your question the books tell me about your relationship use the hundred books you said that with the notes

00:25:18yeah, um

00:25:20I've it. Well, this has been going on for

00:25:24Probably close to ten years now

00:25:27I've been get I've you know gotten into philosophy and reading all the classics like, you know Homer and

00:25:33Plato and Aristotle and all this stuff. So I had all of those but those are the books I'm talking about

00:25:39Besides the one I'm reading for my podcast

00:25:45But yeah, it's it's all those kind of like I was almost I had this this big old volume of

00:25:50The complete works of Plato and I had read

00:25:54Almost the entire thing like I was I had like probably 50 pages of it left

00:26:00to get through and then so that was lost in the fire and

00:26:04And

00:26:06You know, there's all my notes in there like that's the that's the part that's not replaceable as my own record of

00:26:12What I was thinking when I read them before

00:26:16Okay, now you've absorbed the works though, right I mean they're in your head

00:26:23Yeah

00:26:25Because they don't just tell me the philosophy is not I mean not on a bookshelf right philosophy is in your mind, right?

00:26:29You act all right, right? Yeah, I mean

00:26:32They're in my head to some extent I mean they're a lot of them are pretty hard books like difficult books

00:26:38And I don't know how you know, I'm sure I didn't understand

00:26:421% of what's in there?

00:26:48Okay, let me ask you this so how many hours a week did you spend

00:26:53Going back and rereading the notes that you had in these books

00:26:58Oh

00:27:00Not very much

00:27:02Just give you probably less than an hour a week if that

00:27:06Okay, so like a tiny tiny fraction of a percent of your week was spent

00:27:13Not reading the books, but your notes

00:27:19And in what circumstances would you go back and read notes in your books

00:27:25Um, if I was reading the same book again

00:27:29Or the same chapter or the same dialogue or whatever if I read the same one again, I would

00:27:35See the notes I wrote the last time and be reminded what I was thinking when I read it the first time

00:27:41But if you or if I'm or if I'm or if I'm discussing it with a group like because I did that a lot

00:27:47You know discussing it with a group of friends. I would look back through and see what I wrote down

00:27:53Going into the discussion to see you know what I wanted to talk about or

00:27:58That kind of stuff. You only understood 1% of it. So wouldn't your notes be mostly wrong?

00:28:04Maybe no. No, I mean you you went back and read them

00:28:10Yeah, I

00:28:12Mean they might they might be wrong. I don't know like I'm just going with the 1% you told me

00:28:19Yeah

00:28:23I mean of what value is it to go back and read stuff that you got significantly wrong?

00:28:27I

00:28:28mean if you're gonna read the because if you're gonna read the books right and then and you're gonna reread them then you're gonna

00:28:32Get more out of it the second time, right?

00:28:35Okay, good. So so you get more out of it the second time you get a greater accuracy in which case your prior notes

00:28:41Were wrong or at least incomplete

00:28:44Yeah, does that make sense?

00:28:47So of what value was incomplete and wrong notes

00:28:52Not very much, I guess so help me understand why this book thing is like, oh my god

00:28:58The books I don't care about the chickens, but the books

00:29:02Yeah, I mean from a practical standpoint. I'm just why I was a little surprised when

00:29:08You say I mean it wasn't like these that you had five manuscripts of

00:29:12Novels or books that that are irreplaceable and we're all destroyed at that. I could think of that but but

00:29:17largely erroneous notes that you read on a first time through a difficult text and

00:29:22Because you get them, you know, you can go get the book on play-doh again

00:29:25Yeah, it won't be clogged up with all of your bad takes from the past if I understand this correctly

00:29:32Sure. Yes, you're right

00:29:35See here

00:29:37It's like your daughter's like see here daughter. I got this wrong. Hang on, but wait wait on the next page

00:29:43I got I made five notes four of them. Totally wrong one of them kind of wrong and not totally well

00:29:49Maybe the gram is alright, but here I get no notes at all next page one thing that's wrong and here on this page page

00:29:57143 I got something that I think is right

00:30:03Yeah, well when you put it that way I can't believe all the things I got wrong have been lost to fire

00:30:10You should burn those voluntarily

00:30:12Yeah rid of the evidence

00:30:20That yeah, well you a favor as far as that goes well, like I said, um, you know

00:30:27If this is if this is God teaching me to be less attached to material things then I guess that's included

00:30:35So but tell me what I'm still trying to understand your relationship to the notes

00:30:41If you got most of most of it wrong or at least incomplete

00:30:46You

00:30:48Is it that you liked having the evidence that you'd read the books like if somebody if somebody came to your bookshelf flipped open

00:30:54Plato's Republic and saw these notes to be like, ah, he did read it. Whereas if it's empty like ah, he didn't read this. I

00:31:02Think it's it's more of a

00:31:06Like a

00:31:07to me

00:31:10Marking up a book is like I don't I don't think you

00:31:16Don't know it's almost like evidence of ownership kind of thing

00:31:19like I don't think you've necessarily really own a book like you can buy a book but as far as like

00:31:26Ownership over the material goes. I don't think you really own it until you've read it and

00:31:32the notes are like

00:31:34evidence of that

00:31:36or a record of

00:31:39I

00:31:41Don't know does that make any sense?

00:31:43No, I get where you're coming from and I'm trying to follow why ownership of something you own is important

00:31:52Are you didn't steal the books, right?

00:31:54Yeah, okay. It's just stealing philosophy books. Well, unless you're a communist, that's fine

00:31:59but

00:32:01so

00:32:02You already own the books they're already in your house

00:32:04Why do you need to in a sense pee on the books to to establish your ownership coyote style or something?

00:32:10I'm trying to sort of follow that. Well, I

00:32:14Guess I've never really thought about that before

00:32:16I'm not really sure

00:32:18Well, let's ask what what is the purpose of the book?

00:32:21Why do you have it? Why do you read it? What's the purpose?

00:32:24To understand the world to understand philosophy. Well for each individual book. It's to

00:32:32Absorb and understand the arguments within it. Yes, okay

00:32:37Now yeah, okay. So so okay. That's that's a good point. I guess part of the part of I

00:32:46Guess this has more to do with the process of making the notes than with having the notes. It's like

00:32:52When I'm working through a book and I'm trying to understand the arguments in it

00:32:56I make notes and that forces me to

00:32:59Put my thoughts into words and write them down on paper and that helps with understanding the arguments, but I guess in that case

00:33:06it's more about

00:33:08the process of making the notes helping you to understand the arguments and then

00:33:12For that purpose you could just throw the notes away

00:33:15But the value out of the understanding the understanding of the argument is in you

00:33:22The other book has passed from like words on a page

00:33:27vision in your eyes

00:33:28thoughts in your mind notes in your hand and the whole process of that machinery is to produce an

00:33:35Understanding within your mind that remains in your mind

00:33:40Right, the books have been transferred to your mind through the age of the notes

00:33:44Right, and and so when if the books are gone the understanding still remains

00:33:49right and

00:33:51The purpose of the books is to transfer

00:33:54the knowledge of the arguments to your mind and the purpose of the notes is to help that but that's been done now if you

00:33:59Need to go back and revisit it. Then you want a fresh page is almost better

00:34:03because otherwise

00:34:05You're not you're fresh attracted by the wrong stuff. I thought before well, yeah, or even if it's not wrong

00:34:10It's maybe just a particular perspective you had in the past. You want to start with a clean text?

00:34:16So that you're not as distracted by prior thoughts if that makes sense

00:34:21Yeah, yeah that makes sense

00:34:23so

00:34:26There the purpose of the text is to get the arguments and the wisdom into your mind which has been achieved if

00:34:32You go and revisit you're probably better off with the fresh text

00:34:37Yeah

00:34:39Now I think maybe there's sentimentality about the beauty and power of that journey of reading those hundred books

00:34:46For which yes, she's for sure for which the notes is evidence

00:34:50Yes

00:34:53Like I ordered from my wife a little plaque that has

00:34:57the date and the place on a little GPS map the date in a place of our first date and

00:35:05That's just a you know to buy her bed and a bedside and and we look at it and remember that first date

00:35:10It's just it's a nice little marker of a wonderful day

00:35:13So I think that for you and I'm obviously guessing right but I think that for you

00:35:18It's like I had this amazing journey. This was the evidence

00:35:23Yeah, I think you're right

00:35:27And I completely understand that for sure

00:35:32But the journey is still there the journey continues and one of the great dangers in

00:35:37Philosophy is to look to the past not to the future

00:35:41Because the purpose of philosophy is not the past any more than you mean you run a philosophy history podcast

00:35:46So the purpose of history is not the past because it can't be changed

00:35:49the purpose of history is the future to to make better decisions in the future and

00:35:54yeah, so I understand the nostalgia and and the journey and

00:36:02The purpose of the journey is to have

00:36:06The transfer of wisdom and knowledge into your mind so you can make better decisions in the future

00:36:10That's been accomplished and that's not to say of course never revisit those texts, of course not right

00:36:14but what I'm saying is that

00:36:18The the books and the notes have accomplished their task

00:36:22And

00:36:27They have no power in

00:36:30The past they only have power in how they help you make better decisions in the future

00:36:35So you're kind of keeping empty batteries if that makes sense

00:36:40They've already the other power into your mind

00:36:43Yeah

00:36:47When what was your age for the hundred books give or take like your 20s

00:36:56Um, you mean when did I start reading them? Oh, yeah sort of what age from and to with these hundred books. Oh

00:37:02Let's say

00:37:0425 to now roughly

00:37:07Okay, and how has

00:37:10As how have your friends and family and community

00:37:17Processed or dealt with or absorbed your journey in philosophy and history

00:37:24Well

00:37:28As far as the I'll start with the community

00:37:34We're really we're actually kind of new to this community in the last couple of years

00:37:37So they have not been with me for the whole time

00:37:41only recently

00:37:43I

00:37:44Mean the friends I have now are always interested to hear what I have to say like what about the books I'm reading

00:37:52My family

00:37:54Has not been so interested. My brother is the most interested I would say my parents

00:38:00are not really into philosophy at all and

00:38:04They're not that interested in

00:38:06But

00:38:08They don't seem that interested in talking about it, so okay, hang on hang on

00:38:14Okay, you're a father, right?

00:38:16Yes

00:38:17So are you interested in everything your daughter is interested in?

00:38:24No, okay, so why do you do it because I love her right

00:38:30So saying that your parents aren't into philosophy answers nothing

00:38:39My daughter was really into catching frogs

00:38:44for years

00:38:46Do I care about catching frogs spoiler? I do not

00:38:52Did we spend countless hours roaming around catching frogs? Yes, we did

00:38:57I

00:38:58Because I care about her and

00:39:01you know, we did have some fun with it and we had great chats while we were doing it, but

00:39:05It's not the topics that matter. It's the

00:39:08the child that matters

00:39:11Your parents should be into philosophy

00:39:14Because if they're caring for you

00:39:27You

00:39:33Yeah, you're right

00:39:42My daughter will very happily tell me the background stories of video games neither she or I will ever play

00:39:50Lore it's called lore

00:39:53It's like okay, yeah, I mean if she's if she's interested I'm interested because I care about her

00:40:00So what's going on with your parents?

00:40:10Well, I'm not sure exact the relationships kind of shallow, you know, I mean, it's not like you're into something

00:40:15You're not into like topless anime. It's not like some shameful

00:40:19Right, so what do you think's going on or not going on?

00:40:35Well, I'm not really sure

00:40:42Like I said, the relationships kind of shallow they come over and they I mean they help us out

00:40:47They're helping us out with getting back on our feet after the fire

00:40:55But it's always been kind of like that like we don't talk about any deep topics

00:41:01They don't show any interest in

00:41:05Things I'm interested in not that they they never have but it's like

00:41:11Certain things

00:41:12That I'm interested in they'll show interest in other things they won't it's like but the what about their history stuff

00:41:21Um, oh

00:41:23You mean the podcast? Well, not just the podcast but all of your interest in history as a whole

00:41:28They're not particularly interested in philosophy. But what about history? Oh

00:41:33Not particularly interested in that either

00:41:36Do they give you feedback on your podcast?

00:41:39Yeah, well I've gotten them to listen to it and they don't like I ask them what they think about it and they'll say

00:41:44Oh, yeah, it was interesting, but it's all kind of surface level

00:41:48Sorry, what you mean when you say you've got them to listen to it

00:41:51They asked them to listen to it. No, but they said did they know you did a podcast, right?

00:41:57Well, yeah when I told them, okay, so when you told them I'm doing a podcast, what did they say?

00:42:02Yeah, they said well, that's interesting. I'll have to listen to that. So I send them the link and they listen to it

00:42:08but as far as like

00:42:10You know, I'll ask them for feedback. Like what did you think about this? And it's all kind of surface level stuff

00:42:16Like oh, it was interesting. I didn't know this this and this and

00:42:21That's pretty much as far as it goes

00:42:24So they don't ask you

00:42:26What you love about history what your purposes with the podcast what kind of feedback you're getting?

00:42:33What what are you working on next or what are you interested in next or you know

00:42:37I mean do they is there anything?

00:42:42Very little um

00:42:52I mean

00:42:54Here's the topic itself that i'm talking about is like it's pretty obvious

00:42:58Why i'm doing it because it's uh, it's a story about my own state that I grew up in

00:43:04so it's like

00:43:07That question is uh

00:43:10Like it's pretty obvious why i'm doing it and no, it's not no it's not you could be doing anything

00:43:17Yeah, you're right

00:43:19Right. There has to be a reason why you're doing it

00:43:23Yeah, and when did you start it?

00:43:26Um about

00:43:29Seven or eight months ago. I think I'd have to look back at the date

00:43:32Probably had something to do with becoming a father and wanting a better world for your daughter

00:43:37Yeah

00:43:39Yeah, I think that's right

00:43:48I mean that was certainly my motive

00:43:50I mean i'm not saying we're the same but I think fathers are fathers and we want a better world for our

00:43:54kids and usually that involves taking on

00:43:57Topics that can make the world a better place

00:44:07So it's not obvious why you'd be doing it and

00:44:17I mean, I hate to ask this question so bluntly, but your parents just not very smart

00:44:28I wonder about that myself. Like i'm i'm really not sure. Um, my dad is a

00:44:33He's a skilled tradesman. He's owned his own business for

00:44:3630 years or something

00:44:38and so he's

00:44:40Smart in that kind of way for sure

00:44:42Okay, and that's practical skills and business ability

00:44:45Yeah, so that but that's often a practical kind of concrete intelligence whereas philosophy is more of an abstract principled

00:44:52Intelligence. Yeah, as far as the I don't think he's

00:44:56I don't think he's

00:44:59Up there in the abstract principle side of things, right?

00:45:02Okay, uh, do your parents have hobbies that are cognitively demanding

00:45:13No, I don't think so, um, my mom reads um, but the kinds of kinds of books she reads are not you know

00:45:21Higher level philosophy books or anything like that or history

00:45:25um

00:45:26What about their social circle does their social circle include?

00:45:30A cognitively skilled people in abstractions. No, not really

00:45:41Yeah, so it may be this that they don't have any particular

00:45:45Skill or ability in these areas, but they should try right

00:45:51Yeah

00:45:54I mean if if my father was building a barn

00:45:57I don't know much about building barns, but i'd go and help if you know, we had a good relationship

00:46:01I mean, I would I would go and do my

00:46:04my best to help

00:46:14My daughter, um

00:46:17You know loves particular video games or loves this she's sort of past that now

00:46:20But she loved particular video games particularly during lockdown

00:46:23And so we would play with friends and there were games that I was particularly interested in

00:46:28but it was fun to play together and and or I mean you just

00:46:32you you

00:46:34You step over to where the other person is especially your child and you meet them where they are

00:46:39And yeah, and you try

00:46:48Yeah, that's how that's how I feel sometimes like when

00:46:51I ask

00:46:52You know my mom

00:46:54what she thought about the last episode of the podcast and

00:46:58You know, it seems it always feels like it's

00:47:01kind of superficial like she

00:47:04listened to it and she

00:47:05Heard, you know

00:47:08She heard about a couple of events that she didn't know about before and she'll say oh that was interesting

00:47:14um

00:47:15But then if I say oh what was interesting about it, that's kind of where it ends like she'll say

00:47:20Oh, I don't know it was just interesting and that's kind of it

00:47:25And have they asked you any kind of superficial?

00:47:27Yeah, yeah

00:47:27I get and have they asked you anything about sort of your research methods or how you choose a topic or

00:47:33How difficult is it is to put together or I mean have they inquired as to its popularity or ranking or listeners or?

00:47:41A little bit about the popularity

00:47:45The other stuff no

00:47:47Hmm

00:47:52When you were younger, I mean every kid has interests that their parents don't directly share that's inevitable

00:47:58You kind of want that right as being individual

00:48:01uh

00:48:02Did your parents sort of step across?

00:48:04What seems like a bit of a canyon of indifference to sort of meet you where?

00:48:08You were interested in things and what you were concerned about

00:48:11I

00:48:16Haven't thought about that in a long time

00:48:18It's kind of the old if your kids are playing on the floor you sit down and you play on the floor, right?

00:48:23If your kids like a particular story you just read it over and over until they're done with it or you know

00:48:28If they like a particular a game, then you'll you'll do that and you know that that kind of stuff, right?

00:48:33So I guess that's my sort of question is did they?

00:48:37If you were playing on the floor, did they get on the floor?

00:48:39Did they get into your if you'd make in a lego town?

00:48:42Did they help you make the lego town and talk about who would live there and you know that kind of creative play?

00:48:47Yeah, I remember some of that stuff

00:48:50mostly from from earlier childhood

00:48:54Um, I do remember my mom reading a lot of books to me and my brother when we were little

00:49:01Um and books that you liked, right?

00:49:04Yeah. Yeah, okay

00:49:09Um

00:49:12I remember we had this little like toy car like one of those cozy kook things. I don't know if you know what

00:49:17Does that ring a bell? You know, it does not

00:49:20Yeah, it's it's this little plastic toy car. That's toddler size and um, oh like you sit in it

00:49:26Yeah, and you sort of kick it forward flintstone style

00:49:29Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

00:49:31I remember my dad taking us for rides in that like he would wrap his belt around the steering wheel and pull us right

00:49:37Yeah

00:49:38stuff like that

00:49:41And that's nice I mean

00:49:43It's not particularly imaginative or creative play neither is reading to kids book. Yeah, that's the that's the words

00:49:49I was kind of focused on coming up with examples of and I I don't think I really have anything like the imaginative

00:49:55Creative play. I don't I can't really think of any examples of them

00:50:00Right, okay

00:50:02and uh

00:50:03in terms of things that you were interested in that

00:50:07that

00:50:09That wasn't obviously their first choice, uh, did they try to when you were a kid did they try to sort of meet you

00:50:15where you like you got into a particular book series or maybe a show or or something, uh, or

00:50:23Did they sort of try and?

00:50:25Meet you when you were chess

00:50:27I remember getting into chess

00:50:30For a for a for a good while and my dad would play chess with me quite a bit

00:50:36Um, but I would read like I got into like reading chess books and you know learning tactics and strategy and all that

00:50:48So, uh, so that's I mean it's good that he played chess with you right it's very structured and not particularly imaginative but it's

00:50:55something right

00:50:57Okay, and uh anything else

00:51:00You

00:51:03I remember a lot of board games. We played a lot of board games

00:51:07Like

00:51:09You know

00:51:10There was chess, but then there was other ones that were like, you know

00:51:13There were four people in the family and we'd play games that involved four people a lot, right?

00:51:18We would have family game nights and that kind of thing

00:51:23Right, okay and that's that's fine again

00:51:25It's not particularly imaginative and it's not particularly on things that you're interested in

00:51:36So that just could be a bit of a a pattern right yeah

00:51:44Yeah, if I really focus on trying to come up with examples of imaginative or creative stuff that I was interested in

00:51:51I can't think of any

00:51:54Examples of them

00:51:55well, and sorry to interrupt but even if it's not this like they don't have to have some gift for creative or imaginative play,

00:52:02but if you're into

00:52:04Chess and you're reading books on chess

00:52:07Then your father should read books on chess so that you can discuss these things

00:52:12Yeah

00:52:13You know when my daughter gets into a particular book series

00:52:15I'll at least try and read a couple of them so that I can talk about the characters and the story and the style

00:52:19And all that

00:52:22Yeah, my dad never read any books on chess, okay, okay

00:52:28Right, okay, so

00:52:32I think

00:52:33I think that the lack of parental

00:52:36Involvement in your interests has something to do with the loss of the books being devastating. I'm not sure exactly what

00:52:43But I feel that I could be wrong obviously, but I feel that the two are connected

00:52:47That's an interesting connection. I didn't

00:52:50Uh

00:52:52That's a surprising direction for this country a conversation to go into me, but it's interesting

00:52:58I guess that's why I called right because there was going to be something surprising

00:53:01well, generally

00:53:03When i'm surprised there's something surprising. Yeah, because i've been i've been through these calls thousands of times, right?

00:53:08so and I was like

00:53:10if if you'd have given me like

00:53:14You know top 20 things you lost in the fire, uh

00:53:18Books with notes would not be up there and

00:53:21That's just surprising for me. But but that usually means that there's some

00:53:25Um, and and sort of when we unpacked it

00:53:28It that the notes themselves don't have much value. So the loss of them has to represent something else if that makes sense

00:53:34Yeah

00:53:36Like if some guy just misplaces, yeah, like where does the some guy misplaces the thumb drive and and he's really upset

00:53:42We assume that there was something really valuable on the thumb drive that he's not told us yet. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah

00:53:48yeah, the um

00:53:49Like where the question is, where does the attachment come from?

00:53:54Well, it's a journey you went on

00:53:56That has in a sense caused you and your parents

00:54:00To diverge as you get deeper and richer and your parents say more shallow and superficial or the same level of shallowness and superficiality

00:54:07You're diverging from them

00:54:11Not necessarily in opposition but definitely in divergence

00:54:15Yeah

00:54:17Yeah, that's true

00:54:18and as you get deeper and deeper

00:54:21and there's a a fairly powerful phrase from

00:54:24Gertrude stein who was alienated from her brother where he said she said little by little we never met again

00:54:33And as you as you get deeper into things and you start thinking more richly about life and so on

00:54:38it is

00:54:39It's kind of like being a scuba diver and then you have to keep going back to the surface

00:54:43You

00:54:46Just kind of get the bends and it's it's uh

00:54:48You you have to have then two mindsets the mindset of dealing with the people who are only surface and shallow

00:54:53And then the people who are richer and deeper and you have to have this duality, right?

00:54:59Yeah

00:55:00Yeah, i've definitely experienced now

00:55:02I never

00:55:04Put it that way, but i've definitely experienced that

00:55:08I have to uh consciously, uh, it's like um

00:55:12A lifting platform in my body. I just I just go up to like npc mode in certain situations

00:55:19Yeah, what depth no, I used to think I

00:55:22That I used to think that it was kind of like I used to be like when I was in my 20s

00:55:27especially I used to think that it was kind of

00:55:30I had like this resentment of small talk like having to make small talk with people

00:55:36Um, but the you know, i've i've kind of come around on it and i'm like well, you know

00:55:40This is kind of the social ritual that people do and i've gotten better at it. I think and i'm okay with

00:55:48Kind of operating on that level sometimes

00:55:52Well, and we all have to operate on that level at times the question is what what about the relationships where that's the only level

00:56:00Yeah

00:56:04So the loss of the books the loss of the books and the loss of the journey

00:56:10I think I just said 27 to 31 or something like that

00:56:14Yeah, 25 to 24. Sorry 25. So yeah a little more more than half a decade

00:56:23That's

00:56:24The notes the notes if you'd lost the books without the notes, it wouldn't be as important

00:56:29Because you could just get the books back, right?

00:56:31Okay, and then you'd get them back for free because of the insurance. So again not fun, but it's the notes the notes

00:56:39Because this is the worst thing that happened to you was the fire

00:56:42And the worst part of the worst thing that happened to you was the notes in the margins

00:56:48And I don't mean that to sound skeptical i've just that's the sort of hierarchy that i'm looking at

00:56:53Which means it must represent something deep

00:56:56and

00:56:58powerful

00:57:00These notes

00:57:03It could have you said your brothers do you have other siblings

00:57:06Just one brother just one brother and he's a little more he said he's a little more interested in things, right

00:57:11Yeah, he's read

00:57:13Not all of the books i've read but a fair bit of them and he's you know, we talk about these things

00:57:18Yeah, we talk about these things

00:57:20And much more than I do with my parents and he gives you feedback on the podcast. Is that right?

00:57:26Yeah, okay

00:57:28And how's your wife in the murky quicksand of philosophy

00:57:34Um

00:57:35well, she's not as interested in in it as I am, but she

00:57:39uh

00:57:40she tries her best to meet me where I am and you know,

00:57:44Ask me. She asked me what i'm reading about and ask me questions about it. She does all that like she's because she you know, she's

00:57:52More interested in me than in the the books, but she uh much like your wife does I would imagine

00:57:59Uh, does she uh, she listens to the podcast and gives you feedback?

00:58:04Yeah, okay

00:58:07Okay, and what about friends, uh the the church well she the community she gets to hear me recording the podcast. Oh, right

00:58:14Okay. I'm, sorry. I figured with six bedrooms or whatever. Okay. Um, so what about uh,

00:58:20congregation church community friends and and

00:58:25Maybe people you work with uh, how are they with your journey?

00:58:28Journey

00:58:31Um, well I have a few friends at church who are um

00:58:36Well, actually I just in the last couple of years i've started a group

00:58:41At my house where we get together and read these things and there's been a couple of guys from church

00:58:46joining on that so

00:58:49um, it's kind of the same thing like I don't think they're as into this stuff as I am, but um

00:58:54They are always

00:58:56At you know, if I bring it up or sometimes they'll bring it up to me or they'll ask questions to me about what i'm doing

00:59:03And they're interested to hear about it

00:59:05What what got you started at 25 on this?

00:59:11Um, it was it well as a podcast I heard um

00:59:16There was a

00:59:18I don't want to

00:59:20Give I don't want to say too much identifying information, but there was an online group that was

00:59:25Kind of built around this. It's not it's not around anymore

00:59:29um

00:59:30But I was a a member of that for a while

00:59:35Um, I I heard the the guy that was in charge like the owner of the business

00:59:40went on somebody else's podcast and was talking about it and

00:59:44talking about all these great books from

00:59:47the western world

00:59:48You know starting with the iliad and um

00:59:51how it's a good thing to read them and you should learn where we came from and

00:59:55So that got me started on this

00:59:57path, and I was a member of that for

01:00:01Probably four or five years until it shut down and I just continued on my own after that

01:00:06Uh, why did it shut down?

01:00:10Uh, the guy in charge shut it down he i'm not really sure what his reasons were

01:00:15oh, um with with the

01:00:18Community a problem or did he just move on or why not? Just leave it running. He just I think he just moved on

01:00:24I don't

01:00:25I didn't I don't he didn't really um, he really give an explanation

01:00:29It's not very philosophical. Is it I think it

01:00:31I think it had something to do with

01:00:33Because part of the deal was the like you pay the you pay a membership fee and they send you books every month

01:00:41um, and I think part of the part of it was the

01:00:45Difficulty of or maybe maybe most of it was the difficulty of getting books shipped like they were getting more expensive and it became

01:00:54Not a not a good business model to be able to do it and it was a it was a business so okay

01:01:00I think that was that was a lot of it

01:01:05And how far do you think philosophy has moved you from your life in your early 20s

01:01:11Oh

01:01:14Almost immeasurably like I I was uh

01:01:19I'm well, i'm married and have a daughter because of it

01:01:23um

01:01:25I

01:01:26Am a christian now because of it. I was raised christian, but I left the faith in my early 20s

01:01:33And then I converted again after getting into this stuff and learning about philosophy

01:01:37Okay, got it got it

01:01:42So the notes were like footprints on the biggest journey you've had

01:01:50The journey that has given you the life that you have

01:02:00Okay

01:02:03Okay

01:02:06Yeah, they're like footprints in the snow and and you could trace the journey, right

01:02:10The biggest journey you have which has given you the joys and to some degree the distance

01:02:14That you have from people in your life some people

01:02:24Okay

01:02:28Do you know the origin of the fire

01:02:32I don't I just know it was a wildfire that started somewhere

01:02:37You know some distance away from us and

01:02:40it was high winds and um

01:02:43Like pretty pretty fire prone situation

01:02:46Oh, I know. I mean once it started I get that but I mean i've just read that a lot of these as arson or

01:02:52Environmental wackos or yeah, I don't I don't know anything about how it got started

01:02:57I know i've heard roughly where it got started in relation to us, but I have no idea how

01:03:08Right, okay, so

01:03:12The journey

01:03:13I mean this sounds really cheesy

01:03:15It sounds like I feel like i'm about to give you some sort of fortune cookie. The journey is within my friend, right?

01:03:21But but I mean cheesy though. It is true true true. It remains

01:03:26Which is the journey that you made from 25 onwards to where you are now

01:03:33Is within you it's not in the margins of the books

01:03:38And

01:03:40The margins in the books while being a great record of your journey

01:03:46Which I I I understand it more now, I think which is that this was

01:03:51The record of your journey because you could go back and say here's what I thought about

01:03:56This argument or idea

01:03:58When I was 25 or 26 or 28 or whatever it is, right? So it was a yeah, uh a marking of

01:04:05a journey

01:04:07Yeah now most times though we mark a journey because we intend to return

01:04:16There's no undo in philosophy

01:04:19Right, you know that old saying that the mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original shape

01:04:26So while the journey is interesting

01:04:30One of the reasons we drop breadcrumbs

01:04:33In the forest is to find a way back I remember when I was in africa

01:04:38I went hiking in the jungle and I put all these arrows on the ground with little stones and twigs so I could find my

01:04:44way back

01:04:46So one of the reasons right

01:04:48I always feel philosophy is like, you know, sam wise. Yeah, I don't think there'll be a return journey. Mr

01:04:53Frodo, right there. There is no retracing your steps. There's no going back

01:04:59now again, it's not it's not bad to go back and

01:05:02Look at uh, you know, I I put out an nft some time ago, which was my manifesto. I wrote a

01:05:09Manifesto both philosophical and political in my 20s early 20s and going back to read that was very interesting

01:05:16I mean and I still believe a lot of it maybe even most but certainly not all

01:05:20and

01:05:22Going back to read my early novels or and so on is is very interesting, but there is no return journey

01:05:29There is no retracing your steps. So the margins were interesting

01:05:33But there's no going back

01:05:35There's certainly no going back to

01:05:38Who you were when you made those notes

01:05:41Right

01:05:45Right, so they exist as archaeology not as living things

01:05:52They exist as the map to a journey it would be kind of like your um

01:05:59Your marks in grade school

01:06:02Interesting. I mean interesting to go back and reread but you've never gone back to grade school, right?

01:06:08Right

01:06:10So that's all in the past

01:06:16So there's something about letting go of that past that is very painful to you

01:06:24And maybe

01:06:26I mean

01:06:27Did you were you aware of the shallowness in your relationship with your parents?

01:06:31Before you got into philosophy

01:06:35No, I wasn't right

01:06:39What is it the bible says he who gaineth in wisdom also gains in

01:06:46Pain I don't remember what the exact word is, but it's something like that sorrow, right?

01:06:53And when we outgrow our parents it's painful

01:07:01When we

01:07:02And there comes a time to anyone who thinks deeply

01:07:05If you have shallow parents and most of us do at least relative to the deep thoughts that we have

01:07:09when you look at your parents and you see

01:07:13their limitations their

01:07:16Childishness in a way

01:07:20Because children tend to be kind of self-absorbed it's not a criticism. It's it's good right but children tend to be kind of self-absorbed

01:07:30And

01:07:32Your parents seem to be quite self-absorbed

01:07:35In that if it's interesting to them, they're interested if it's not they're not

01:07:41And children won't even fake it but and your parents won't even fake it either

01:07:51They're just not interested

01:07:55And they don't

01:07:57They don't they don't just I don't know some book you mentioned they could go and get an ai summary and at least have some

01:08:02Conversation about it, but they don't even do that, right?

01:08:11So that those markings in the corner of the book were the path back

01:08:16to

01:08:17Looking up at your parents

01:08:22Huh

01:08:27And with each one of those markings in the books

01:08:30You outgrew your parents to the point now where I think you manage them a little bit like children

01:08:36Like you don't have too high an expectation you recognize their limitations. You don't demand too much

01:08:40You don't try to raise them to your level of conversation or intellectual depth or curiosity or compassion or empathy?

01:08:48You just view them as oh, they're kind of limited and you know

01:08:51They're helpful here and there and they're nice and pleasant to be around and we can have nice chats about things

01:08:55but uh, it is like one percent of

01:08:58This the material and depth that you're working with

01:09:03Yeah, that's that's pretty spot on right

01:09:08And it could be that so they are

01:09:10Just limited, you know, if you've got a son who's five foot one, you don't prep him for the nba, right?

01:09:17So it could just be that they're limited and but it's a sad thing because of course when we're children

01:09:23We look up at our parents and they appear to be gods they can do everything they can they know everything they right

01:09:28And especially if your father is physically skilled, which of course as a tradesman

01:09:31He would be as I can fix anything can do everything, you know that kind of stuff, right?

01:09:35and then when we

01:09:37grow in in depth and wisdom if our parents are

01:09:41practical and shallow and material

01:09:44then

01:09:46We outgrow them in in very deep ways and almost in infinite ways because it's not like

01:09:52They can they can't do ten percent of what you do

01:09:55or twenty percent or maybe even two percent, right, so it's like

01:10:00Much much much bigger and much. It's almost infinitely if that makes sense

01:10:05Yeah, actually this I just remembered this

01:10:09Back near the beginning of

01:10:11Getting into the end of philosophy and this kind of stuff

01:10:15I read well, one of the first books I read was the odyssey

01:10:19Which is father-son story

01:10:22and um

01:10:23I got

01:10:25Like I after I finished it

01:10:27I got a copy for my dad and gave it to him

01:10:31and um, you know, but this was before I

01:10:34Came to these realizations about my parents

01:10:37But I got a copy for my dad and

01:10:39And gave it to him hoping that he would read it and we could talk about it and he never did

01:10:45Right

01:10:48Right

01:10:51And and he also didn't circle back to you and say i'm sorry

01:10:55I'll get to it or I don't i've tried and it doesn't work for me. Is there any

01:10:59Summary or is there an audiobook or you know?

01:11:02He didn't sort of say i'm having difficulty with or I can't get it done. Is there another way I can do it?

01:11:07Right. No, he didn't say that. It just fell into the void, right?

01:11:12Now of course, you know, that's not how he runs his business so he's perfectly capable of providing feedback on things he can't do

01:11:20Or isn't going to do right so he treats his customers in a way almost better than he treats you

01:11:29If somebody asks him to do something he doesn't just pretend it never happened, right you can't run a business that way, right

01:11:40So it would be interesting to have a conversation with your parents and say

01:11:45I

01:11:48Feel like the stuff that i'm really interested in you don't really care for

01:11:53Or try to take a move towards

01:12:01Yeah

01:12:05And maybe there's a block or maybe there's something that they could connect with that would open that up

01:12:15You

01:12:25Yeah, I mean I I don't know whether you should or shouldn't have that conversation

01:12:28But I think it would be good to have it as a conscious decision whether you decide to or not to

01:12:34Because if you decide not to it would be probably based on the fact that they're just they're just limited. They're just really limited

01:12:39and

01:12:40With regards to depth they just don't have it

01:12:43They just like they're like someone whose ears just simply won't pop like you can't you can't take him down scuba diving

01:12:48They just they'll just get injured

01:12:50and so

01:12:51Um, so if you accept those limitations, there's a certain amount of sorrow and grieving that is associated with that

01:12:58Yeah, but but then there's no

01:13:01Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, like I feel that for sure and I have been

01:13:06Having thoughts about that like that grieving that they're not

01:13:11You know just aren't going to do that for whatever reason I have been grieving that the last few years

01:13:16Yeah, it's really I mean, I find it really important to not be disappointed in relationships

01:13:23And usually i'm disappointed because I have unrealistic expectations

01:13:30You know, there's things that i've wanted my daughter to get into or or to to enjoy or whatever and she just hasn't now

01:13:37My that the problem with that is not her the problem is my expectations that she should

01:13:51So I think

01:13:55Accepting the truth about people is really important to avoid chafing and expectations in

01:14:00in relationships

01:14:01And and that's true for other people to you too

01:14:04I mean, I mean that's you have your strengths and weaknesses just as I do and

01:14:07it's important that people like if I if my wife was like I really need you to become a mathematician i'd be like I

01:14:14Gotta tell you much though. I love you much though. I want to please you. I don't think that's gonna happen very well

01:14:20Right. It's my limitation, right? I'm okay at math, but it doesn't come as naturally to me as a lot of other things

01:14:25so

01:14:27Or or if my wife were to say, you know, i've got a friend

01:14:31Who's super handy at stuff like just he looks at something and disassembles it and reassembles it in his own brain

01:14:36It's kind of a freaky thing to me because it's like magic

01:14:39but uh, so so but if my wife were to say, uh, I need you to become as as handy as

01:14:46This guy right? I'd be like nah, it's not not a thing. I bet I worked in a hardware store

01:14:51I know a few things here and there but uh, it's not particularly interesting to me and uh,

01:14:57It's not uh, not a skill that I have and it's also not a skill

01:15:00I want to develop the good thing about getting older is you realize how hard it is to become good at stuff

01:15:05Yeah, and you're just like no like, you know for me if it's like, oh I could learn another language and it's like

01:15:11It's gonna be 10 000 hours like I know how long that's gonna take like I did violin for 10 years

01:15:17which kind of inoculated me against learning any other instruments because it's like

01:15:21Uh, I know how long it takes to get even decent at something. So, um, I just

01:15:26don't I just I have a funny thing too like with video games, I haven't played a new video game in years because

01:15:32they're either too simple to be interesting or you know, it's like

01:15:35Some game where it's like there are 14 000 different resource combinations and you can train things to do this

01:15:41And then you and it's so strategic. It's like i'm i don't have time to learn this

01:15:46I'm, I don't have time to learn unless it's something like like dungeons of dragons. I kind of already know

01:15:51but

01:15:53um, so

01:15:55I think adjusting those expectations have the conversation or don't but I would say if you don't have the conversation it is accepting

01:16:03That there's no return journey

01:16:05to

01:16:06Respecting your parents in this way and look i'm not saying that cognitive limitations are worthy of disrespect

01:16:12Otherwise people would look at my you know, I don't speak any other languages than english particularly and therefore, you know

01:16:18What did they look down on me? No, it's just a but my concern with your parents is not their limitations

01:16:24But the lack of

01:16:27Empathy to you and I would downright and directly call it affection and love towards you that you just try

01:16:37You just try because it's if it's important to you it should be important to them

01:16:42and

01:16:43And and that's that's sort of my major concern now if you decide not to have the conversation

01:16:48It would be like, okay, so they're limited in their capacity to love me in this kind of way

01:16:51I mean they'll they'll show affection in other ways that come help you when

01:16:54Your house burns down and stuff like that and that's nothing to sneeze at for sure

01:16:57But in terms of like it's important to you. Therefore. It's important to them

01:17:02If that's not going to happen, um

01:17:05You know just gonna have to grieve that that lack of love because that is a love thing

01:17:08That is a love thing that you know, and if somebody were to say to the average person

01:17:12should you be should you at least try to

01:17:15be interested or or

01:17:18Get to know things that people you care about are really passionate about it be like well, yeah, of course

01:17:24And so it's not some esoteric

01:17:27Thing that that people don't know that's a pretty obvious thing

01:17:30And so if they won't do it or can't do it, then it's a limitation on the size of their hearts

01:17:35It's a limitation on their affection and that's something to grieve

01:17:39but it's also I think in order to avoid being disappointed and and

01:17:43Chafing with regards to expectations. It's probably something worth accepting

01:17:51Yeah, maybe that's what god wants you to learn from the fire

01:17:54The only person who didn't get disappointed by his father is jesus himself

01:17:59Yeah, yeah

01:18:02All right, is that is that a fairly decent place to to get to

01:18:07Yeah, so you're telling me that philosophy can't unburn my house

01:18:11Um, that's extra so, uh, we'll negotiate that offline. All right

01:18:20Well, uh, listen man keep me posted, uh, you do have my big sympathies, uh, of course i'm not saying that oh just

01:18:26do a dance of joy for your house getting burnt down, but

01:18:29Uh, man, it could have been a whole lot worse and you will get great lessons out of this

01:18:34And i've in my own personal life i've had things which I think are really bad that turn out to be really great i'm

01:18:41Yeah, yeah, i'm happy. I'm happier post de-platforming than pre-de-platforming. Anyway, go on. Yeah, I will say um

01:18:48So before the fire my wife and I were trying to have a second baby

01:18:53And um, so a couple days ago I asked her he's still like you trying for another baby and she said, uh

01:19:00Yeah, do you not like why would you ask that

01:19:04And I was

01:19:06I was like, yeah, okay. I married the right woman. My god, man. Don't let the smoke damage hit your testicles

01:19:12Keep those folks. Yeah for sure

01:19:14All right. Well, listen keep me posted and I really do appreciate the call today and uh, I wish you the very best with

01:19:19the rebuild

01:19:21Thank you, I really appreciate it. Thanks brother. Take care. Bye. Bye. Thanks. Bye

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