Szef UNRWA obawia się, że Gaza może przestać być „ziemią dla Palestyńczyków”

euronews (po polsku)

Szef UNRWA obawia się, że Gaza może przestać być „ziemią dla Palestyńczyków”  Philippe Lazzarini mówi Euronews, że izraelskie plany dotyczące Strefy Gazy są „dystopijne”, po tym, jak Netanjahu zadeklarował zamiar kontrolowania całego palestyńskiego terytorium.  CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2025/05/22/szef-unrwa-obawia-sie-ze-gaza-moze-przestac-byc-ziemia-dla-palestynczykow  Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach

Transcript

00:00Muzyka

00:08My guest on the Europe Conversation is Filip Lazzarini,

00:12the Commissioner General of UNRWA,

00:14the UN Agency for Palestinian Refugees.

00:17He told me, as Israel deepens its offensive in the Gaza Strip,

00:22that he fears that Gaza may soon no longer be a land

00:26where Palestinians can live.

00:30Filip Lazzarini, thank you for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

00:35Now, I'd like to start with the situation in Gaza.

00:38We know that Israel has been blocking the entry of all humanitarian aid

00:43since the 2nd of March. That's 11 consecutive weeks now.

00:48Now, I know you're personally banned from entering Gaza,

00:51but you have colleagues there on the ground.

00:54From what they tell you, how would you describe the situation

00:58for people in Gaza as we speak?

01:01That's correct. We have 12,000 employees still in Gaza.

01:05What they describe is beyond imagination.

01:10In fact, as you said, there have been now a total siege imposed on Gaza

01:14since 11 weeks, which means nothing entered,

01:18which means that there is no food available anymore.

01:22Now, hunger is deepening.

01:25We heard last week from the nutrition expert

01:28that half a million people are living in catastrophic situations,

01:33and the rest of the population also might face famine

01:36if this siege continues,

01:39which means the daily life of the people in Gaza

01:41is to struggle to survive,

01:45to make sure that they are not killed by bombing,

01:48by disease, or now by hunger.

01:51Now, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

01:54has said that he will now let basic amounts of food enter,

02:00and that's while a new operation backed by the US and Israel

02:05is preparing to start distributing aid.

02:08Do you believe this restricted amount of supplies

02:11that will now go in will do anything to change

02:14the humanitarian situation you've just described?

02:16Well, first of all, it's a total outrage

02:20that we are confronted to a situation of starvation

02:23when it comes to Gaza.

02:24It's a completely fabricated one.

02:27It's man-made.

02:28Basically, we are in a situation where hunger and food

02:32is being weaponized for political and military purposes.

02:37Now, today we heard that some basic assistance will come in.

02:41We have to define what the basic is,

02:43because what is needed in Gaza is a massive,

02:46unhindered, uninterrupted assistance and supply

02:52to make sure that we are reversing the trend

02:54of the spreading hunger in the Gaza Strait.

02:58But the Israeli Prime Minister is saying

03:00that it has to block aid

03:02because Hamas and other militant groups

03:05are hijacking that aid, looting the aid,

03:08and even monetizing that aid.

03:10Do you think that's a legitimate concern?

03:14And do you think that the safeguards UNRWA

03:17had in place to prevent Hamas

03:19from accessing and diverting the aid

03:22were as strong as possible?

03:24First of all, nothing justifies

03:28that we use food or deprive an entire population

03:32of having access to food

03:34to the extent that we are starving the population

03:36for any purposes of any kind

03:39as a starting point.

03:41There is a basic right in any situation,

03:44in situation of crisis,

03:46and also a basic obligation

03:48to provide access

03:50and make sure that humanitarian assistance

03:52reaches the people.

03:53Now we hear about the accusation

03:57of diversion of food in Gaza.

04:01There is no UN agencies

04:03who have heard about any large-scale diversion.

04:07What we have seen at the beginning

04:09of the ceasefire,

04:10when there was not enough food

04:11in the Gaza Strait,

04:13there have been situations of looting

04:16where desperate people

04:18were just jumping on the trucks

04:21and taking the food.

04:22But we have never, ever been notified

04:25of any diversion.

04:27Now, Israel, with the backing of the US,

04:30has established a new plan

04:31which would use a charity

04:33called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation

04:35as well as private firms

04:37in order to deliver aid to the people.

04:40But you've said that you cannot support this plan.

04:43Why is that?

04:44Well, the UN cannot support this plan

04:47because it's far from meeting

04:50without having any basic humanitarian principle,

04:53including humanity and impartiality.

04:57Today we are talking about four hubs

04:59in the Gaza Strip,

05:01forcing people to walk kilometers

05:04to have access to the hub

05:06and to carry on very heavy parcels

05:11back to the family.

05:12Which means, with a system like this one,

05:14only those close to the hub

05:17will have access to assistance.

05:19And secondly,

05:20the weakest, the most vulnerable

05:22of the female household

05:24will have absolutely no possibility

05:28to go there.

05:29You say you cannot support this plan,

05:31it's not impartial.

05:32Yet Israel says,

05:34or accuses UNRWA of not being impartial,

05:38of not being neutral.

05:40It says that UNRWA's operations in Gaza

05:42are inevitably compromised by Hamas,

05:45which governs there.

05:46It says proof of that

05:47is the fact that the agency fired

05:5019 employees suspected of taking part

05:53in the October 7th attacks on Israel.

05:58Can you accept that all of this

05:59makes it very difficult

06:01for Israel to trust UNRWA?

06:04There is a war of narrative,

06:06there is propaganda going on,

06:08there is also an objective

06:10to eliminate an organization like UNRWA,

06:13because by eliminating UNRWA,

06:16Israel also aims at stripping

06:18the refugee status of the Palestinians.

06:21Now, having said that,

06:22we are taking any allegation very seriously.

06:26The famous 19 names

06:28you are mentioning right now,

06:31there have been investigation,

06:33investigation have been non-conclusive,

06:35but we have taken action.

06:38Later on, there have been allegations

06:40of hundreds of names.

06:42Constantly the agency is asking

06:44for substantiated information

06:46we never receive.

06:48Hence, we are not in a possibility

06:51to follow up just on allegations

06:54being provided that way.

06:56Yet there is a 72-page document

06:59publicly available

07:00on the Israeli government's website.

07:02It says it contains abundant proof

07:05of how Hamas has infiltrated UNRWA.

07:09Are you saying that you are contesting

07:12all of that evidence

07:14that Israel says it has?

07:16I am not contesting everything.

07:20What I am saying is,

07:21number one,

07:22we are not operating

07:23in a no-risk environment,

07:25but we have a no-tolerance policy.

07:28Whenever there is an allegation

07:31that a staff might be part

07:34of the armed group of Hamas

07:36or the jihadists,

07:37we will act quickly and smoothly.

07:40But for that,

07:41we need collaboration,

07:43we need information.

07:46And over the last two years,

07:48I have repeatedly asked

07:50the government of Israel

07:52to share information

07:54with the UN

07:55and or with UNRWA

07:57so that we can

07:58undertake investigation.

08:00Until today,

08:02we have never received

08:03any substantiated information.

08:06Now, you mentioned

08:06there is a full-scale

08:08military operation underway.

08:10Euronews exclusively

08:12saw a plan for Gaza's future

08:14last week,

08:15which is being considered

08:17by the Israeli government.

08:18It suggests the IDF

08:20could take control

08:21of the whole of Gaza

08:22and force civilians

08:23into designated security zones.

08:26There are signs now

08:27that this plan is underway.

08:30How do you respond to this?

08:32Well, there are many plans

08:33that we have seen until now.

08:36Some of them are more dystopian

08:38than other ones.

08:40I do not know what it means

08:42to send people in secure zone.

08:45Until now, Gaza has proven

08:47that there is absolutely

08:49no safe place.

08:51Israel said last year

08:52that there is a safe

08:53humanitarian zone

08:54in the south of Gaza,

08:56but we have also seen

08:57that it has been regularly

08:59targeted, bombarded,

09:01and even people living on the tent

09:03have been killed.

09:04So what I see for the time being

09:07is a continuation

09:09of the destruction

09:11of the deaths and killing

09:14of the Palestinians in Gaza.

09:16and my fear

09:17is that we might reach a point

09:20where Gaza might not be a land

09:24anymore for Palestinians

09:25to live in.

09:27Do you believe Donald Trump

09:28when he says

09:29he can take care

09:30of the situation in Gaza?

09:32I do believe that President

09:36Donald Trump

09:36has the necessary influence

09:40to change the situation

09:42in Gaza

09:43and to make sure

09:44that the siege be lifted

09:46and that the population

09:47get access to the assistance

09:49it deserves.

09:51You've previously said

09:52that UNRWA is living

09:53its darkest hour.

09:55Today, is UNRWA still able

09:59to deliver for Palestinian refugees

10:01given all of these difficulties?

10:04Despite the fact

10:05that the agency

10:06is experiencing

10:07its darkest hours,

10:10our staff,

10:11despite the fact

10:12it is exhausted,

10:15it is anxious,

10:16and they are also struggling

10:17to stay alive,

10:20they are able to provide

10:21services to the community

10:23even today in Gaza.

10:24But under the current

10:25financing system,

10:28how long can UNRWA

10:29continue to operate

10:30as things stand right now?

10:31That's a very good question.

10:33I'm hoping that we will be able

10:35to stay afloat,

10:36to continue to provide

10:38our services

10:38to the communities.

10:40The shortfall today

10:42is more than $200 million

10:43to keep our education

10:46and primary health services

10:48across the region.

10:50It's a race against the clock,

10:51and I really hope

10:53I will not be pushed

10:55in a situation

10:56where I have to announce

10:58the suspension

10:59of our services.

11:01But that is something

11:01you've had to contemplate?

11:04This is something

11:05I unfortunately

11:06have to contemplate

11:08on a regular basis.

11:10What would be your message

11:11to those Western governments

11:12as we are seeing right now

11:14that are currently

11:14cutting back

11:16on humanitarian aid funding?

11:19Well, the main message is

11:20that do not compromise

11:22our ability

11:23to respond to crisis.

11:25I know that many countries

11:26are going through

11:27austerity budget,

11:29but cutting

11:30in international cooperation

11:32or humanitarian assistance

11:34is certainly not

11:36the area

11:37where countries

11:39should cut.

11:40I mean, for example,

11:41if we do not address

11:42the crisis,

11:43people will want

11:46to want to leave

11:47and most likely

11:48come here

11:49and then the cost

11:50will be much more expensive.

11:52Mr. Vattarini,

11:53thank you for your time.

11:54Thank you.

11:56What?

11:56Thank you.

11:56Hello.

11:57Thank you.

11:58Thank you.

11:59Thank you.

12:00Thank you.

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