The inside track on Sheffield United with The Star's Danny Hall...
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Hello, welcome along to the RAW Podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo. My name is
00:22James Copley. Today I'm joined by Sheffield United writer Danny Hall from the star we're
00:27going to be previewing the big game at Wembley on Saturday. Danny, how are you feeling about
00:33it all?
00:34Yeah, not bad at the minute, to be fair, which is quite a strange position to be in for Sheffield
00:40United. I have a Sheffield United persuasion with our record in the past playoff finals,
00:45but yeah, quite looking forward to it at this stage. Whether that changes as the game gets
00:50closer, I'm sure it will. The nerves will start to kick in, but at the minute, almost
00:55a sense of almost excitement at what might happen and what might be to come. So yeah,
01:00feeling good at the minute.
01:02You've mentioned something there that I was going to touch on later in the podcast, but
01:05we'll come straight to it. For those Sunderland fans that are looking for some hope, for some
01:10superstitions, Sheffield United's record at Wembley is really, really, really poor. Talk
01:15us through that, because until quite recently, Sunderland had a very poor record at Wembley
01:21after the famous cup victory against Leeds United in 1973. That monkey is now off Sunderland's
01:25back, but it's still well and truly on Sheffield United's back. In the grand scheme of things,
01:30I suspect these things don't actually mean that much to the players, but in terms of
01:34fan psychology, it's really important.
01:36Yeah, that's what I was going to mention there, James, in terms of I did a piece a few weeks
01:40back, United lost playoff finals in 97, 2003, 2009, 2011. You could sort of spend the whole
01:50podcast going over the real failures in this competition, but I did a piece. Siddy Peck,
01:57who will play in this one, probably was about three weeks old in 97. Gus Harmer, who obviously
02:03will play in this one, was about 10 months old when they lost to Palace in 97. These
02:07things don't matter to these players. It's a different thing with the fans, I think.
02:14They've been scarred a few times, their record. At Wembley, they've not won a Wembley in 100
02:22years, exactly 100 years, so maybe if you're looking for a bit of an omen, perhaps that
02:26is one. Ultimately, these things, like I said, don't count for much to them. It could be
02:30a case where United are going to Wembley having won all 10 of their previous attempts and
02:35ultimately that wouldn't mean anything either. It doesn't mean that they're guaranteed to
02:41win this time because they've lost all nine of their play-off campaigns since 1988. It
02:48doesn't mean this one is doomed to failure either. It's just something that was in the
02:53media to highlight, don't we, and sort of cling to because it is a remarkable record.
02:58The fact that they haven't not just not won a play-off final, I can't remember them really
03:04turning up in one, to be fair. For a while, they've been some really poor afternoons at
03:09Wembley, some really, really disappointing ones. It's no place to lose, is it? It must
03:17be a brilliant place to win, it'd be nice to know that, but it's no place to lose when
03:22you go down there, trips, 30,000 fans down to Wembley. You just want your team to show
03:27up and, to be fair, last time we were there a couple of years ago against Manchester City
03:32in the semi-final, they had a go. Obviously, City are a different beast, aren't they? They
03:38won 3-0 and quite rightly so, but they had a go and I think that that is all United fans.
03:43I think Sunderland fans, from what I can sense, are pretty similar in that that's what they
03:46want from their team. They want a team that rocks up and they have a go. And if they're
03:50not good enough on the day, if the other team are better, if they say yes, as Chris Wilder
03:57likes to say, if they have a good day out and are better on the day, I think the majority
04:00of United fans will sort of accept that. But if they see their team not turning up, not
04:06giving everything, that's when they have issues. And to be fair, we had a few days
04:10like that last season, perhaps in the Premier League, but to be fair, that's one thing this
04:14season that's not happened. Whatever has happened, they've lost games, they've lost to Leeds,
04:18they've lost to Burnley, they've lost three games in a pretty big week that ultimately
04:24cost them automatic promotion. But there's not been many times, if any times, where you've
04:28sat there and gone, they've not given everything this afternoon. And that's something that
04:32Chris Wilder demands. That's not something that he accepts praise for. He just thinks
04:37that is part of being a professional footballer and he's right in that. But I think, yeah,
04:42if United fans can see their team giving everything, then they'll be pretty content with that.
04:49And hopefully they can do that and then marry that up with the sort of on the ball side
04:55of things, a bit of magic maybe on Saturday, because I think it'll be an incredibly tight,
05:00cagey game between the two teams. Hopefully they can find those big moments and hopefully
05:09get the job done.
05:11How has the season felt for you, obviously coming down from the Premier League last campaign?
05:17It's been, from an outsider's perspective, a really good season for Sheffield United.
05:22Perhaps a little bit disappointed to miss out on the top two, but there's an understanding
05:25there that the two top teams managed 100 points and Sheffield United's 90 would get
05:31you up more often than not in the championship. Also, from an outsider's perspective, it feels
05:37like whilst Sheffield United have had a really good season, what you described there in terms
05:40of being really robust at the back, trying really hard, really disciplined and well-structured
05:46under Chris Wilder, is it fair to say that perhaps in an attack and free-flowing sense
05:50that they haven't lived up to expectations? That's certainly the feeling I've got from
05:54watching Sheffield United, albeit I haven't watched every single game, I must admit.
06:00Yes, I sort of get the sense that if you're comparing them to Leeds, who are obviously
06:06on a different planet and they've got free-scoring players and battering teams 7-0 more often
06:13than you'd probably expect teams to do, then perhaps so. Sheffield United have always been
06:19this as well, when they've been at their best, it's like a sum-of-the-parts sort of thing
06:23rather than a free-scoring, 30-goal-a-season sort of striker. They spread their goals around
06:29and they've just been sort of ruthless when they've had to be, if that makes sense. They
06:34haven't, like I said, really put teams to bed until the semi-final against Bristol City
06:38when they're obviously on a different planet, really, to Bristol City. That's no disrespect
06:43to them. United were just far too good over two legs. But there hasn't been that really
06:48sort of dominant 90 minutes, 4-5-6-0 performance that we've seen from other teams. It's been
06:55more of a, like I said, build from the back, especially early in the season when they had
07:00Harry Souter and their clean sheet record was brilliant. They kept so many clean sheets
07:05on the bounce. I think it challenged the club record at one point. So, it's been a more
07:09sort of pragmatic approach for a lot of the season, I think. But I don't think there's
07:13anything wrong with that. You play to your strengths, don't you? They've had the top
07:17scorer, I think it's Tyrese Campbell, who's scored 10. So, it's not been a 20, 25, 30
07:23goal a season campaign from him. But others have chipped in. We'll talk about Gus Harmer,
07:28I'm sure, who's an absolute joke of a player at this level. Officially the best player
07:33in the division after winning that Player of the Year award, which got a few tongues
07:38wagging just up the M1 here at Leeds. But yeah, the season on a whole has been quite
07:46refreshing, I think, after last season. Last season was a real struggle, as you can probably
07:50imagine from the outside. But yeah, they were miles off it. Absolutely miles off it in the
07:55Premier League. They were miles off it at the start. They went in completely undercooked.
07:59They were playing under-21s players and new signings in the first game, second game of
08:04the season against Man City. They were so far off it. So, I think, as Marla spoke about
08:10this yesterday in his press conference, it was almost a bit of a relief in the summer
08:15to be able to change it up so much. They let double, easily, almost two dozen players
08:20leave in the summer. Low-knees players who were at the end of their time here, players
08:26who were sold on to bring in new faces. The turnover was huge and people look at the job
08:32United have done this season and they go, oh, it's because of parachute payments and
08:36it's the Premier League club and you should be there. I think it's a little bit lazy in
08:41many ways because they didn't spend the weight to get to where they are. They have good players,
08:46there's no point arguing that. That money probably did allow Calum O'Hare to come in
08:50in the summer. It allowed him to keep hold of Gus Holmer. But I always go back to signing
08:56Michael Cooper and Harrison Burrows were two of the best signings in the league for me,
09:01obviously from my bias position here in Sheffield, but two of the best signings in the league
09:04in the summer. And they came from Plymouth and Peterborough and no disrespect to those
09:09clubs, but United had to raise money from sales to buy those two, from Plymouth and
09:15Peterborough. So the idea that they've bought the league or bought a promotion attempt this
09:22season always makes me smile. But yeah, it's been a big rebuild and I think that goes under
09:30radar a little bit in terms of the way they've changed the style, changed the way they play,
09:34they've changed the approach. They've been associated with a 3-5-2 for such a long time
09:40under Chris Wilder and he's changed that in the summer to play with wingers and Gus Holmer playing
09:46the free roll off the left. It's been quite refreshing. I think he's been refreshed by all
09:50that. The fans have been refreshed by that after what happened last season. And there is a little
09:55bit of if, and I stress that's an if, if United do go back to the Premier League this season,
10:02I think there's a little bit of scepticism amongst the fanbase as to what will happen,
10:06understandably, after what happened last season. But as I would make the point, this is a new
10:11group, there's a new ownership in place and Chris Wilder is as enthused as ever about making a
10:16success of his job at Sheffield United. So yeah, it's been a refreshing sort of season. It's been
10:22interesting to watch and hopefully they can finally put that long Wembley curse to bed
10:30this weekend and get back to the Premier League and then the fun really does start.
10:35I was talking Danny to a friend this morning, Ken, out in Sunderland walking our dogs and
10:41I think we were having a little bit of a therapy session and trying to convince ourselves of
10:46reasons Sunderland are going to turn up and do it at Wembley. But we were talking about the
10:50semi-final and the difference in semi-finals between Sunderland and Sheffield United.
10:56I likened Sunderland's two legs against Coventry City to a 12-rounder in boxing, a really hard
11:03physical 12-rounder and in boxing terms that sort of gets you ready, doesn't it, for the next
11:09physical big clash. My argument was that perhaps Sheffield United versus Bristol because of that
11:15red card in the first leg was a bit of a knockout blow really, wasn't it? And then Bristol City in
11:20the second leg had to come out and they had to sort of try and score that first goal and Sheffield
11:25United just picked them off. Am I right in thinking that there's something in that or am I
11:30clutching at straws? Because my argument was that in terms of being ready for sort of that big match
11:36feeling at Wembley and a little bit of a defensive slog, Sunderland were arguably
11:41better suited in terms of the playoffs. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it, what we all cling to because
11:47the talk down here is sort of how much energy of Sunderland exerted in those two legs.
11:53It's a very valid point. I'm not saying they took it easy or anything like that but they did
11:58rest some players when you're 6-0 up, you know, half an hour to go or whatever it was in the
12:02second leg. How much emotional energy did that take out of our Sunderland? We'll never know
12:08will we until the day. It's one of those things that we can sort of cling to things or we can
12:12the opposite, we can look at it and go, oh, maybe this is, you know, almost convince yourself why
12:17you're going to fail this time, which I think is happening down here. What I will say is that
12:21you know, some scenes up there, by the way, obviously you'll have been there for that
12:25second leg when Ballard stuck that goal in. Jeez, what unbelievable scenes and what a way to set
12:30yourself up for it. Finally, it was a lot more sort of straightforward and serene for United,
12:35wasn't it? You know, sort of breezing through almost. I don't mean I disrespect the Bristol
12:39City by that but when you're 3-0 up after the first leg away, the job is sort of done, isn't
12:44it? They were professional enough. What sort of pleased me was more how they, not the six goals
12:52really across the two legs, I think it was at 5-0 up on aggregate and there was a chance where
12:57Bristol City broke from a corner and before, I can't remember, the Bristol City might have been
13:02Naki Wells, before he got a touch on the left wing, all 11 United or all 10 outfield players
13:07were back in their own half to defend it and that was at 5-0 up where you could think, oh,
13:12you know what, we're in the file now, we'll put our feet up, we'll conserve some energy
13:17and that really sort of impressed me. It was a little unseen moment into the mentality of this
13:21side, you know, it's not been about battering teams, you know, you'll score five, we'll score
13:25six. It hasn't been about that. It's been ruthlessly sort of just overpowering teams
13:32almost. You know, we've seen that so many times this season but, yeah, the two legs against
13:39Coventry I thought were really interesting, you know, they'll be ruined, you know, their chances
13:44that they had, you know, there's a big chance at the end when, if they should have stuck it away
13:47and they should probably, I could have been talking to a Coventry, you know, podcaster at this time
13:52but, you know, football is about big moments, isn't it? You know, he stuck that header miles
13:57wide, I think it was Haji Rai and then, when it mattered, Dan Ballard somehow, I mean, I've seen
14:01a picture of him from the side where he's heading the ball and it doesn't look anything like he
14:07should be able to head the ball in the top corner from that position. He's done unbelievably well.
14:11I'm interested, Danny, in your perspective, actually, of Sunderland versus Coventry over
14:16the two legs because we've been a little bit surprised, really, by some of the narratives,
14:20more from the Coventry end, that Coventry sort of passed and played Sunderland off the park. We
14:26didn't really get that impression. We thought it was a resolute defensive display. They gave up a
14:30lot of the ball, particularly in the first leg, Coventry City went long. It didn't really work
14:34for them. Ballard had a stormer. I think there's an argument to say that Coventry were certainly
14:38better in the second leg and Sunderland's mentality, maybe they were a bit nervous, you know, cagey,
14:45but it never really felt to me like Coventry are playing Sunderland off the park. I felt like
14:51that against Leeds United at Ellen Road in the second half when they scored two late goals. I
14:54felt like Leeds were playing Sunderland off the park at times. I felt like that against Leeds at
14:58the Stadium of Light, again, at times in little 20-minute periods, but I never really felt like
15:03that against Coventry, with the caveat of, yeah, they had the ball and they did have a few
15:06gilt-edged chances, but it didn't feel to me like a footballer masterclass.
15:11Yeah, I agree. It just seemed to me, obviously from my vantage point down here in Sheffield,
15:16like a bit of a, just a typical playoff game, really. It was a bit cagey at times, wasn't it?
15:20Like you said, they gave up the ball a lot. They had a lot of sort of territory without really doing
15:25a great deal with it. I think football just comes down to big moments, doesn't it? You know, I go
15:29back to the headers, where one really should be on target and is miles wide, and then when Ballard
15:36gets the chance in a big moment, he sticks it away. So, yeah, the narrative, like I said before,
15:41the narrative could be, you know, we've dug out a real defensive, dogged display. That's good for
15:47character. It could be, you know, perhaps we weren't as offensively dangerous as Sheffield
15:52United perhaps looked by winning 6-0, you know, and the reverse sort of could be true as well,
15:57couldn't it? It's just the whole narrative thing ultimately counts for very little, doesn't it?
16:02You know, it's about what happens on the day, what happened against Bristol City.
16:06Does it matter now? You know, we spoke yesterday with Chris about the difference in the table.
16:12I think United finished 16 points, Cleo Sundland in the table, but, you know, at 3 o'clock or 3
16:19or 1pm when it kicks off on Saturday, it doesn't matter, does it? You know, it doesn't count for
16:24anything. They can take a bit of confidence from that. You know, they'll take a bit of belief in
16:29that, you know, the table shows that they are, I don't think it's too controversial to say they
16:33were a better team than Sundland over the course of the season, as Leeds and Burnley were a better
16:38team than Sheffield United, as Sundland were a better team than Coventry and Bristol City. You
16:42know, that's how the league table works. You know, it shows who's a better team over 46 games,
16:46doesn't it? But in the playoffs, it's a terrible cliche that we're straightening to here, but it
16:51doesn't really count for anything because it's a one-off game. It's 90 minutes, hopefully. Hopefully
16:57it's not 120 in penalties because I don't know if I'll be able to take that. You know, it's winner
17:02takes all, isn't it? What's happened on the first day of the season against Preston, what happened
17:06on Boxing Day against Burnley, what happened, you know, against Leeds and whatever. It doesn't
17:10ultimately count for anything. Now, you know, maybe you can take a bit of belief from the fact that
17:15you finished, you know, comfortably clear of Sundland. You know, that will maybe make a little
17:21psychological impact, but it doesn't give you any more goals, does it? A kick-off, it starts nil-nil.
17:27It's, you know, it's a clean slate almost and, yeah, winner takes all. Who's the best team on
17:31the day? Who handles the pressure the best as well? I think the mentality will be huge.
17:36You know, who handles the occasion better? You know, Sundland, you know, from my perspective,
17:42quite a young... I know they've got some inexperienced players, you know, Roberts and
17:46Ballard and that, those types of players, but it seems quite a youthful team, which can be,
17:51again, you can spin that either way you like. You can say that youthful sort of ignorance,
17:56almost, in a good way. You can say, you know, are they going to be overruled by the occasion?
18:01You know, United have a bit more experience. They're still quite a youthful team, but there's
18:05a lot of players there who've played at Wembley before and not only played at Wembley,
18:09they've succeeded there. You know, Harrison Burroughs scored a couple in a, you know,
18:14only a JPT win or whatever it's called now, but there would have been 80,000, you know,
18:18there'd been a big crowd there, from what I remember, and that would have been a big day
18:21for him. He scored a couple and they won the trophy. You know, Rob Holdings won the FA Cup
18:26there. Hamza Chowdhury won the FA Cup there. Gus Harmer and Calum O'Hare have both scored there.
18:30So, there's a lot of sort of experience to fall back on there, not just of going to Wembley and
18:35seeing what it's like in the day and all the bright lights and the big crowd and what it's
18:39like, that emotional energy. There's players there who've actually been there and done well
18:44and succeeded. So, that could be a little, I don't know, just a little bonus perhaps.
18:50Like I say, you can spin these things both ways because, you know, if you've been there for the
18:53first time, it could be new to you and it could be fresh and it could inspire you a little bit more.
18:57Ultimately, we'll only know on the day.
18:59No, yeah, you're absolutely right to mention that Sunderland's squad is quite young. I think
19:05the average age is about 23. But, actually, in terms of Wembley wins, Paterson was part of the
19:10last Wembley win against Wickham. Luke O'Neill was, Trey Hulme was in and around that squad,
19:14Dan Neal, Patrick Roberts as well, Dennis Sergen. So, there is some Wembley experience there.
19:21Caveat to that is the likes of Joe Bellingham first time, Chris Rigg first time,
19:26Eliza Maienda first time. I think it would be Romain Mundell's first time, should he play
19:31any part at all, Wilson Eastwood. So, it is interesting, isn't it, that dynamic?
19:36And looking at things that give us a psychological and mental boost, we've talked about the play-off
19:42games, we've talked about Wembley experience and youthfulness and all of that sort of stuff.
19:48The two games between Sunderland, Sheffield United and the Championship, do you think those
19:52are significant in the mind of Chris Wilder, particularly the one on New Year's Day?
19:57I ask that question because, tactically, that was the first time that Regis Lebris
20:02really sprung that 4-4-2, much to everybody's surprise at the time, and it worked very well.
20:07Isidor and Maienda getting on the score sheet, I think they assisted each other in that game as
20:12well. Sunderland looked really fluid from an attacking sense. Obviously, it's very, very
20:16different at Wembley in a play-off final. Whether he'll do 4-4-2 again, I'm not entirely sure.
20:24He did it at times against Coventry over the two legs,
20:27but it's an interesting tactical battle is what I'm getting at, isn't it?
20:33Yes, 100 per cent. I remember coming away from that game and it seemed like,
20:36you'll be able to tell me better obviously, but there seemed like a real belief in the
20:40Sunderland fans after that game. It seemed like a really big statement win almost.
20:46Thinking back to the game now, I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but
20:51fine margins again, big moments, because United could have gone ahead with a penalty,
20:55you know, Kiefer Moore sticks that away. At the time, United were so defensively solid,
21:01could they have sat back a little bit more, soaked up the pressure and maybe come away with
21:05a 1-0 win? From what I remember, there was a gift of a goal with a defensive mistake. Jack Robinson
21:13puts one on the plate for Maienda or Isidor, and it's a very different game. It turns completely,
21:19doesn't it? What I would say, sound like excuses again, but it's a very different United squad from
21:25that day. I think Chris referenced it yesterday again, the bench that day, that was in the middle
21:30of a really, really tough period for United, where after 60 minutes, 70 minutes, when you're
21:35looking to change it, he'll have been turning to his bench and going, there's not a lot really here
21:41in terms of recognised championship experience. There was a lot of kids on that bench who are,
21:48you know, they'll be good players, but they weren't good players. You know, they weren't
21:51the right options, I should say, at the time. Whereas now, his options are ridiculous, really.
21:57We were running through the predicted team yesterday that he could put out there, and I
22:02think five different people have a different player in certain positions. You know, there's
22:06so many options that he can call upon now. And going back to the game at Bramall Lane,
22:11I thought Sunderland were really good then. You know, they were really impressed by them,
22:15like a young, energetic team. I think the lad Watson was really good that game on the left wing,
22:23if I remember rightly. Sort of thinking, you know, where's he come from? You know, looking at opening
22:28being about 14 or something, whatever it was. And now he's off to play at the end of the season.
22:32Yeah, yeah, and thinking he could go far. And then obviously there's news quite recently,
22:37wasn't it, that he'd been agreed to go to the Prem. And of course, that game at Bramall Lane
22:41as well, you talk about moments, but Sunderland missed a penalty in that game, as Sheffield
22:45United did in the reverse as well. So, it's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, and then last minute,
22:49I think it was, or late on, Tom Davies with a winner, and Bramall Lane goes wild. And like I
22:54said, it could easily have been two very different outcomes. You know, it could easily have been
22:58still one win each, just in the reverse leg, if that makes sense. So, you can place as much
23:05emphasis or as little on that as you like, really. You know, if you want to sort of see,
23:10you know, we could have won, easily won two with big moments, could easily have lost two with big
23:15moments, you know. Ultimately, like I said, I don't want to keep sounding like a broken record,
23:19but it doesn't count for much at three o'clock. But I thought they would just do just good games.
23:23You know, Sunderland, I've really enjoyed watching them this season, like that young team we talked
23:28about, you know, the sort of youthful naivety, but I mean that in the best way, in that we're
23:36just going to go at teams, you know, and whether it's you'll know better than me, whether it's
23:39cost you at times with that approach, I don't know, but just enjoyed watching the likes of,
23:45you know, Riggum and Bellingham or Job. Has he got Job now? Has he got Bellingham?
23:49Yeah, he gets Job, but we tend to include Bellingham in the headlines just because it
23:53drives more hits.
23:54Yeah, for obvious reasons, yeah, yeah. I like watching Luko Nine, like he's just,
23:59he's talking about character, you know, it just seems like a, I want to use a word,
24:03but I can't use it on a...
24:05How so?
24:06You'll know, yeah, you'll know exactly the one that I'm thinking of. I quite like that,
24:09but then Pallardo United I've looked at before. I like the keeper, Patterson, even though he
24:14got a bit of stick at some point this season, didn't he? I like him. Simon Moore, obviously,
24:18we know very well in these parts, he was a great guy. So, I mean, nice to hopefully catch up with
24:24him on Saturday. And yeah, the front two we talked about earlier, I mean, they've got
24:31everything out there, you know, it's talked about unpredictability, it's one of those where you,
24:35I imagine, again, from the outside, you're not quite sure what you're going to get from them
24:40most games, but when you do get, yeah, when you get the best of them, I imagine it's a real
24:46handful for defences and if they both play together, which I guess is the sort of tactical
24:53question that, you know, you'll all be asking up there if he plays them together or whether it
24:57goes one or the other or whatever. But yeah, you know, United have got some good players as well,
25:04you know, there's always a tendency amongst supporters to look at the opposition team and go,
25:09you know, Riggs is a good player, Bellingham's a good player, Isidore, Maienda, but then you look
25:13at United's team and I'm sure some of them fans are probably doing exactly the same. Definitely
25:17looking at United's team and thinking what an embarrassment of riches, particularly up front.
25:21I think the options you have, the four or five listed on Sheffield United's side, so you've got
25:26Tom Cannon, I know he hasn't set the world alight, but then Tyrese Campbell, Ben Berritten, Diaz,
25:31the others as well, Rhian Brewster, it's like, you know, I know Rhian Brewster's move was some
25:36time ago now, but expensive players across that front line. Yeah, 100% and the interesting one
25:43for me, you know, you talked about Maienda and Isidore, the interesting one for me from United
25:47is whether Chris sticks with Kiefer Moore, who sort of came in, not from the cold, I was going
25:53to say from the cold, he had an injury issue and then he couldn't get his place back because Tyrese
25:57Campbell was scoring goals and did what he came in to do. But in the play-offs against Bristol
26:03City, Chris sort of noticed that, you know, there'd be perhaps a sort of aggressive press from
26:09Bristol City there and he's not too proud, you know, to sort of go, you know what, if you're
26:14going to press us, we'll go over it. And Kiefer Moore was a real handful for the Bristol City
26:19defence, you saw the red card, which was a laughable sort of narrative about it not being a
26:25red card. I mean, he's grabbed him, ragged him all over and then he's got to turn the ball, so
26:31it's a nailed-on red card all day long for me. But does he sort of stick with that in the final
26:36with Ballard being so dominant, you know, in the air and, you know, stuff like that, does that play
26:44into his mind or does he decide to go back to the single striker that, you know, he stuck with for
26:49most of the season before he changed it quite late on? It'd be really interesting, but what I will
26:54say is that the way they've handled, because I imagine a question that I've seen quite a lot is
27:00after missing out on top two, how are they going to sort of react to that and is it going to,
27:04you know, is it going to play on their minds and are they going to psychologically be damaged by
27:09that? And the reaction to missing out, I think, has been really good, you know, after that Burnley
27:14game, which is when the top two dream officially died. I mean, it had died a few days before when
27:19they lost three in a row and it was an uphill task from there, but the way that they sort of drew a
27:23line under that and said, listen, that's us now, you know, we have to sort of reset and go again
27:28with this second chance in the playoffs. And it's easy saying that, sometimes doing it can be
27:32difficult, can't it? We've seen that with teams before, but the way they've sort of reset physically,
27:37sort of more importantly as well mentally, has been really impressive. You know, the mood around
27:41the place is very different to previous and I've covered too many playoff campaigns before that
27:49have ended in defeat and this one does seem slightly different, you know, whether that will
27:56bear fruit, we'll only know on Saturday, as I keep saying, but it does seem a slightly
27:59different mood around the camp, you know, their previous playoff finals doesn't affect this
28:06group, as I said before, you know, they weren't around for that, you know, they've drawn a line
28:09under that. What they can affect, they can't affect 97, they can't affect 03 and all the other ones,
28:14they can affect 2025 and that's what they're sort of focusing on, you know, if they do
28:19God forbid, lose on Saturday, it won't be because of what happened in 1988
28:23and it won't be what happened against Burnley in 09, it'll be what happens on the day.
28:29Sunderland hadn't won at Coventry in 40 years before they did in the playoffs,
28:32the record was absolutely shocking. It just goes to show, doesn't it?
28:38Yeah, and again, we said before, it's a theme of this podcast, I suppose, these narratives
28:41are there to be broken, aren't they? You know, you can look at that and go, oh, that doesn't
28:45mean you're going to lose again, you know, they'll probably look at that and go, no,
28:48Sheffield United teams won at Wembley in 100 years, no Sheffield United teams ever
28:53been successful in the playoffs. Why not us? Why can't we be the ones to go and do that,
28:57you know, and that can be, I imagine, quite a powerful, you know, motivator for these players,
29:04not that they'll need it because getting to the Premier League is powerful enough, but
29:07just maybe a little psychological, you know, 1%, you know, you can add to your performance,
29:14you know, who knows? Yeah, we'll start tailoring it off, Danny, because the build-up to Wembley is
29:20very, very busy for the both of us. I know you've got another podcast to do later on the road,
29:24so if you want to catch more of Danny, then head over there. Just wanted to get your thoughts
29:28quickly, Danny, on the final itself, maybe as a little prediction, and just generally yours
29:33and Sheffield United's travel plans as well, in terms of the fans, because Sunderland tend to go
29:39to Trafalgar Square and Covent Garden on the Friday night, and Old Hell tends to break loose.
29:44Is that something you'll see from Sheffield United in other areas of the city? Is anything
29:49like that being discussed? Because it's going to be quite funny, because I think this will be
29:53fifth time at Wembley or something like that, fourth or fifth, I think, and Sheffield United
30:00will obviously be wearing red and white shirts, and so will Sunderland, so it's going to be a
30:04little bit different. It's going to seem like very, very busy, and in my head, everyone's just
30:10maybe merging into one, and there's no real beef between the two football clubs,
30:14isn't there? So, I'm hoping for quite a nice but competitive atmosphere in the build-up.
30:20Yeah, a red and white takeover of London, why not? I like that. In terms of travel plans,
30:25I've seen the scenes before of teams taking over Covent Garden and places like that before. I'm not
30:30entirely sure that will happen from a United point of view, whether that is being scarred by
30:37previous attempts, or this is not to sound big-time at all or anything, but
30:42the previous experiences at Wembley in recent years, it's not quite a big, fresh event. I'm
30:49not saying it's for Sunderland, but we've seen some clubs who have not been there for a long
30:52time, and they make a day of it. I think for United fans, there is more focus on actually
30:56getting there, because the trains are an absolute nightmare. There's no trains between Sheffield
31:00and London, which is obviously not ideal. I think once they've got the box park and things like
31:08that, that'll be a big event down there. I think it'll be a good occasion on the day as well.
31:19Sunderland fans obviously travel in remarkable numbers and make a lot of noise. United will
31:23have to match that, but I will say the atmosphere against Bristol City in the second leg, not just
31:27because of the result. There was quite a touching rendition of George Baldock's song in the second
31:34leg. That's been sung all season, but it seemed at one point like they were every single United fan
31:40in the stadium on their feet, singing it for what seemed like about 20 minutes non-stop. That was
31:44quite emotional, actually, quite spine-tingling. They have made that atmosphere of late, and they
31:53need to do that again, because I know Sunderland will do that. It's just two big clubs, isn't it?
31:58Let's be fair. I don't know if you feel the same, but when you cover a club, especially
32:04it's a Sheffield mentality thing to talk your city down and your team down almost. But then
32:10I think sometimes we don't shout enough about what a big football club this is. It's a room
32:16of football. Let's not forget that football was invented here. It's a big football club.
32:21Sunderland as well. They've had some really difficult times of late, but you see the crowds
32:26they've got this season. It's huge. Who said potential? It's not even potential, is it?
32:31It's huge now. Obviously, you guys will be looking, if you get back in the Premier League,
32:35to make a go of it. I think it'll be a good occasion between two teams. We'll give everything.
32:44The fans will hopefully do the same. I think it'll just be a game of football, hopefully.
32:48Like I said earlier, I think it'll be cagey. I don't think either team will explode into a
32:54two or three goal advantage at half-time. Obviously, I hope Sheffield and I do that
32:59for obvious reasons, but I'm not sure they will. I just hope it'll be a competitive,
33:04good game of football. Obviously, I hope Sheffield and I come out on top. But in terms of a prediction,
33:10I hate making predictions. They never, ever come true. I just hope, like I say, avoid penalties
33:17because that's no way to lose. I just hope it's a decent game of football. I'm going to sit on the
33:22fence with that one. I hope, obviously, and expect maybe it's probably a bit strong, but
33:29slightly suspect United might just edge it on the day. But I guess you'll probably have
33:32the same leanings towards your side. I just think it'll be a good game of football and
33:37hopefully a day to remember. Absolutely. Well, Danny, I wish you good health. I wish you safe
33:43travels, safe passage to London. I hope you're miserable coming out of it, just from a Sunday
33:48perspective. I get what you mean. I'm sure you won't be good with that. I'm looking forward to
33:52catching up with you at Wembley as well. Hopefully, you get five minutes. We'll have a little catch-up
33:57down there. But thanks for joining us. You can head over to the Sheffield Star for all of the
34:02latest if you want to read a little bit more from Chris Wilder and any team news. Danny Hall is
34:07all over that. Thanks once again for joining us, Danny, and thanks to all the fans for tuning in.
34:16See you Saturday.