ABD'nin eski Şam büyükelçisinden Colani itirafı: Onu siyasete biz taşıdık

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ABD'nin eski Şam Büyükelçisi Robert Ford, Suriye'deki Heyet Tahrir el-Şam (HTŞ) yönetiminin lideri Ahmed el-Şara'nın siyasete geçiş sürecinde “Batılı kurumların önemli rol oynadığını” ileri sürdü.

Transcript

00:00So, first, this guy, as Roy said, was in Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

00:06I was in Iraq between 2000, I started there in 2003 and served until 2010 with 20 months off for good behavior

00:16when they made me ambassador to Algeria, but then Condi Rice sent me back to Iraq again.

00:22So, during that time, this guy, who's now the president of Syria, that's him on the left.

00:29In his Al-Qaeda guise, and he was a senior Al-Qaeda commander up in northern Iraq in a city called Mosul.

00:39For Americans who were in Iraq, you might remember Mosul was one of the worst, nastiest places.

00:46The State Department actually lost five diplomatic personnel in two different car bombs up in Mosul during that time,

00:53and hundreds of American soldiers were killed or injured up in that Mosul area.

00:59By this guy and his fighters.

01:02So, starting in 2023, a British non-government organization, which specializes in conflict resolution,

01:16invited me to help them bring this guy out of the terrorist world and into regular politics.

01:26And, at first, I have to tell you, I was very leery of going.

01:30I sort of had images of me in an orange jumpsuit with a knife to my throat.

01:35But, after talking to several people who had gone in, and one of whom had met him,

01:42I decided to take the chance.

01:44And so, the first time I met him, this guy's name is Noam Daguerre, was Abdukater Jolani,

01:53but his actual name is Ahmed Shara, which he only revealed to the world after he captured Damascus

02:00in the blitzkrieg of December 2024, about five months ago.

02:05First time I met him, I sat down next to him, and I'm literally as close as I am to Roy,

02:12and I said, this is all in Arabic, I said,

02:14never in a million years could I imagine that I would be sitting next to you.

02:20Long beard, in fatigues.

02:23And he looked at me, he speaks very softly, and he said,

02:26wala ana, me neither.

02:28And we went on, and actually had a pretty civil conversation.

02:33I share this because he said something which really piqued my interest.

02:38He never apologized, never apologized, for the terrorist attacks in Iraq,

02:44or in Syria, although there were many fewer in Syria, never apologized.

02:48But he also said, you know, now I am governing an opposition-held area of northwest Syria,

02:56and I am learning that the tactics and the principles that I was following in Iraq

03:04do not apply when you actually have to govern four million people.

03:10And they had two million residents of that area of Syria,

03:14and then another two million refugees who had come there from other parts of Syria.

03:18So they had a population of four million.

03:20He said, I am learning that to govern, you have to make compromises.

03:26I was very struck by that.

03:28So that was in March 2023, just over two years ago.

03:35We went back a second time in September.

03:40I went to Syria in January.

03:42I met Ahmed Shara, the president then.

03:48When I saw him in the presidential palace, I said,

03:51never in a million years did I expect to see you here.

03:56And he kind of grinned, and he said,

03:57well, I like to keep surprising you, Mr. Ambassador.

04:02He has a sense of humor.

04:03I don't normally think of al-Qaeda as having a sense of humor, but anyway.

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