'I Know That It Violates Current Law': Susan Collins Confronts RFK Jr. Over 'Poorly Thought-Out' Cuts

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At Wednesday's Senate Health Committee hearing, Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) questioned HHS Sec. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about massive cuts to research and cuts.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:03Mr. Secretary, nearly 7 million Americans are living with Alzheimer's disease

00:11and caring for people with this devastating chronic disease

00:17costs us some $360 billion a year.

00:22I am the author of a law that's known as the BOLD Act.

00:28It takes a public health approach to Alzheimer's.

00:33It educates providers, promotes earlier diagnosis.

00:38It helps caregivers, and it also promotes lifestyle changes.

00:46I have worked very hard to make sure that HHS has the resources to carry out this law,

00:53which was just recently extended.

00:56I'm concerned that the reductions in force of approximately 10,000 staff across HHS

01:05will completely undermine this act.

01:09And this act, in many ways, is very consistent with your approach of looking at public health

01:16issues for chronic diseases.

01:19For example, the Healthy Aging Branch administers the BOLD Act for Alzheimer's.

01:27It has lost all of its staff.

01:32So how can you ensure that the CDC continues to implement the BOLD Act and the Alzheimer's programs under it

01:43when all of the staff responsible for that administration have either been placed on administrative leave or let go?

01:52I don't know enough about that program, but I know that under that division has been folded into the Agency for Healthy America.

02:09And a lot of the reports that whole divisions have been liquidated were just wrong.

02:16They were divisions that were being reassigned under the RE-ORG.

02:19Now, I'm under a constraint here because at 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon,

02:27we were told that a federal judge granted a TRO in our case on the RE-ORG.

02:38And my attorneys have asked me not to talk about any details of the RE-ORG today.

02:46So I, but on that budget line, I will work with you.

02:51I'm committed, you know, Alzheimer's is run in my family.

02:56As you know, you know my cousin Maria Shriver, who's deeply involved in it.

03:00The NIH had a very, very checkered history on studying Alzheimer's because of the amyloid plaque scandal.

03:12And we have an opportunity now to do really good science and find a cure very quickly

03:17and also find out, equally importantly, why so many people are getting Alzheimer's in this generation.

03:24I want to make that happen.

03:26And I want to work with you, Senator, to make sure that that happens and that those programs continue.

03:33I chaired recently the first Appropriations Committee Hearing of the Year.

03:38And we focused on biomedical research and how important it is that America not lose its global edge in innovation

03:49that's producing life-saving and life-enhancing discoveries.

03:53As among the many issues that we covered, as you might expect, the hearing explored the 15 percent

04:02arbitrary one-size-fits-all percent cap that NIH has imposed on indirect but still research-related costs

04:13for its grants.

04:15What we heard is that this cap will mean less basic research, fewer clinical trials,

04:23and that it will also cause our scientists and researchers to leave the United States and go to other countries.

04:33I believe strongly that this proposed cap is poorly thought out, that it's harmful,

04:39and I know that it violates current law because since 2018 we've included in the appropriations bill

04:49specific language that prevents NIH from imposing such a cap.

04:57So I know the system needs to be looked at, but are you reviewing how NIH's approach of this one-size-fits-all

05:0915 percent cap on indirect costs would affect laboratories, whether they're private nonprofit labs

05:19or whether they're in universities as far as doing crucial biomedical research?

05:25Yeah, Senator, we are, and you and I have talked about this issue, and I think the impetus for the cap

05:34was that there were a lot of private universities with giant endowments like Stanford and Harvard

05:39that were getting indirect payments of 78, 70, 78 percent.

05:47What that means, if you get a million-dollar grant, NIH then has to pay you an extra $780,000

05:54for administrative costs, and a lot of those costs weren't even going to anything to do with science.

06:01They were going to, you know, the university budget, and in order to curb that abuse,

06:08we adopted a 15 percent, which is the industry standard.

06:12That's what the Gates Foundation or any other foundation would pay.

06:17But I understand the University of Maine, University of Alabama, many other universities,

06:23state universities were not abusing it.

06:26We lost about $9 billion a year in those kind of costs.

06:30And so we have a plan for how to address issues like what's happening at the University of Maine.

06:41I'm being gaveled out, so I will talk to you privately about that.

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