"A UE deve tomar decisões para defender a ordem multilateral", afirma o presidente do Eurogrupo

Name: "A UE deve tomar decisões para defender a ordem multilateral", afirma o presidente do Eurogrupo
Uploaded: 2025-05-15T15:00:35+00:00
Duration: 12 min
Channel: euronews (em português)

euronews (em português)

15/05/2025

"A UE deve tomar decisões para defender a ordem multilateral", afirma o presidente do Eurogrupo

O ministro das Finanças irlandês e presidente do Eurogrupo, Paschal Donohoe, considera que as instituições que surgiram após a Segunda Guerra Mundial estão a ser postas em causa pelos Estados Unidos.

LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2025/05/15/o-sistema-de-regras-do-pos-guerra-esta-suscetivel-a-alteracoes-diz-o-presidente-do-eurogru

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00:00Welcome to the Europe Conversation.

00:09My guest this week is Pascal Donoghue, Finance Minister of Ireland

00:12and President of the Eurogroup of Eurozone Finance Ministers.

00:16He says his country and several others are against the idea of a digital tax on the tech sector

00:21in response to Donald Trump's widespread tariffs,

00:24despite the fact that this is a very popular move in other countries like France.

00:30Pascal Donoghue, President of the Eurogroup and Finance Minister of Ireland,

00:34thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

00:37Shona, thank you for having me on.

00:39Well, look, let's start with the EU-US trade negotiations.

00:43We know that the EU has for some time now being offered a zero for zero tariff rate,

00:49but the US is not satisfied with that.

00:51It wants much greater access to the EU's markets when it comes to agriculture and other areas.

00:56And a lot of people would say that they'd like to see huge deregulation

00:59when it comes to the tech sector, the DSA, the DMA.

01:02Can you say that the EU is not for that, not for lowering standards for the sake of a deal?

01:09So we're not for lowering standards for the sake of that.

01:11And we do have to have a debate and an assessment within the European Union regarding our competitiveness

01:19and the degree to which decisions that we have taken may have contributed to our competitiveness declining

01:26with an impact on our growth, the impact on the number of jobs we may create in the future.

01:31So through that prism, it is important that we assess the regulations that we have and whether they are proportionate.

01:39But while I am convinced that an agreement between the EU and US is in the best interest of both,

01:46I certainly would take great care for a degree of deregulation being part of such an agreement.

01:54So when you say competitiveness, then what could it look like without lowering standards,

01:59without reducing what's in the DSA and the DMA?

02:03What could it potentially look like in theory?

02:06So I think there's a few strands for what it could look like.

02:09It could look like the efforts that we have in relation to the exchange of goods and the tariff levels for that.

02:17And what the EU have outlined as zero for zero is a very ambitious,

02:21but I believe important recognition of the value of trade and how it could be driven further.

02:26It could also look like commitments that we would have to buy more from each other in particular areas.

02:33And it could also look at what we could do in terms of the mutual recognition of the standards that each other have.

02:41And while that is easily and better understood with regard to goods, it could play a role with regard to services.

02:47This is a relationship, as you know, that's worth billions of euros every single day.

02:53And any change at all, no matter how small,

02:56that eases with the flow of that exchange of goods and services on a daily basis,

03:01on an annual basis could be worth a big improvement to both of us.

03:05We know that when the EU announced a couple of weeks ago its potential tariffs in the event that there's no negotiation led to,

03:13that digital services wasn't on that yet, but it potentially is on the table.

03:16Do you think that the reason why that's not there is because it's really a controversial part of the negotiations between the two sides?

03:23So I believe it is understood as a move that, if it were to be applied, could have larger spillover effects.

03:32It could, at that point, become difficult to look at what would be paths for further de-escalation.

03:38And it could make a trade relationship, which is obviously facing a very big challenge at the moment,

03:46face an even bigger one.

03:49Ireland and I have longstanding concerns regarding the role and use of digital services taxes.

03:55And my sense is that in the debate that is now taking place at the moment,

03:59it is understood as an option, but it's also understood as an option that could have very significant consequences.

04:08Indeed, but countries like Germany and France, particularly France, would push for something like that.

04:12And I think it's inevitable in a negotiation like this that it's taking place,

04:18that different members of the European Union will have different views.

04:22That is, after all, I believe, our strength.

04:24And what we will do is listen to each other and find a balanced outcome regarding options that we may need to take now

04:32and other options that we might need to consider in the future.

04:35But I think it is fair to say that there are a group of countries within the European Union

04:40that would have significant concerns regarding the use of DSTs and the spillover effects

04:45that it could have on the trade negotiations and the health of the economic flows between the EU and US.

04:52We know that the EU is also saying that regardless of what is the outcome of the next negotiations,

04:57it needs to seek stronger association with other markets, whether it's Canada and so on.

05:02But do you see there might be a renewal of the EU-China relationship as part of this?

05:07We have acknowledged that China can be a partner in many areas,

05:13but we've also acknowledged that in other areas they do pose challenges for the European Union.

05:19And I think that continues to be the right balance.

05:23It is absolutely inevitable as we look at the unfortunate trade tension that is taking place between the US and the European Union.

05:31The European Union will look at other ways in which it can generate and deepen trade.

05:37We'll do that twofold.

05:39Firstly, through our own single markets and our trade with each other.

05:42And secondly, looking elsewhere in the world and looking at deeper trading relationships that we can have there.

05:48I think it's important, however, to be realistic,

05:51to say that new trading agreements with other parts of the world,

05:55at least in the short term,

05:57aren't comparable to what we might be able to get out of the single markets.

06:00On the broader issue around trade with the EU and other countries trying to dash to not quite make up,

06:07but in some ways get stronger trade links across the world,

06:10do you think that there's a fear that the issues around global warming,

06:14human rights and other elements that used to be part of the priorities of a trade deal,

06:18that they will just be eliminated in the demand for making up for what we're losing out at the moment?

06:24That risk is definitely there.

06:27And it is part of how the EU needs to be agile in responding back to a world that has changed so much.

06:36But we do have to stand by particular values and ways of engaging with the world that are important to us.

06:44I think it is likely in trade negotiations that will happen elsewhere,

06:49that the reference that those particular issues would have got will, I fear, go down.

06:55But in what we need to do here in the EU, I certainly want to still ensure they have a high value.

07:01And I believe we can do that.

07:03And I believe we should do that.

07:04So just moving on to defence, which obviously is the most important issue almost at the moment.

07:10You very much supported common borrowing when it came to Covid,

07:14because obviously you saw the impact it was having across Europe.

07:17Do you support the same for this existential crisis?

07:20Do you support common borrowing for defence?

07:22I think in the time ahead, the most likely way in which further spending on defence will happen

07:30will be both at a national level in terms of the use of own national resources.

07:36And then secondly, in the new framework that the EU have brought forward,

07:41where we would look at the use of the National Escape Clause where needed.

07:44And we would also look at new forms of lending to each other to help with new forms of spending.

07:52So where's the trade-off?

07:53Because the defence spending has to go way up.

07:55And does that mean you take it out of cap or where does it come from?

08:00Cohesion funding?

08:01So I think in the time ahead, national defence spending will continue to be the larger component

08:07of how we respond back to Europe's security needs.

08:11I hope and I expect from the discussions that I can see happening,

08:16that that will be happening in a more coordinated way that has happened in the past.

08:20And I also think it's likely that progress will be made in areas of procurement.

08:26Therefore, that means that if there is a defence dimension to the next MFF and the EU budget,

08:32I still think it's likely to be smaller than the national contribution that members make

08:38to their own security and the security of the EU.

08:41And therefore, it is possible that the knock-on effect that it will have

08:45on other priorities within the EU budgets may be smaller than we think at the moment.

08:51But, you know, we speak to any Prime Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister, Defence Minister across Europe,

08:56they all say the same thing, that this needs to be a unified European response

09:01to this existential threat, that it actually has to be much bigger

09:04than what has been sort of offered in REARM, and that it has to be European-wide.

09:09It's difficult to have that debate and not divorce us from the broader reality

09:14that, firstly, we'll be negotiating a budget for the new European Union.

09:19Secondly, next-generation EU, which is the new form of common borrowing

09:24that we have to deal with the crisis of a number of years ago of the pandemic.

09:29that that is still happening and still being evaluated.

09:33And death, in relation to all of that, both still has to issue

09:36and still has to be refinanced and dealt with at some point in the future.

09:41All of those things are going to come together.

09:44What's your assessment of the fact that Europe really has to do this alone now

09:47because the US is telling Europe we were shifting the burden,

09:51we're not sharing the burden, we're shifting the burden

09:52of European security to the European continent alone?

09:55I think it applies, that logic applies to so many elements now

10:00of the European Union, which is why I made the point to you there, Shona,

10:04that we can't have the debate about defence and security,

10:07as existential as it is, but have that debate without reference

10:12to very other big things that are going to happen now with regard to the EU.

10:16But a theme of what is now happening is the rules,

10:20the institutions that were set up in the aftermath of World War II,

10:23set up with American leadership.

10:26They're now being challenged, they're being contested.

10:28The institutions that we know, the rules in relation to trade and tax

10:32are all now open for renegotiation.

10:36That is now what is happening.

10:38Was Macron and Draghi right when they said Europe is mortal and it could die?

10:42All political order is mortal.

10:45All political order, if not capable of dying, is capable of declining.

10:49That is one of the many lessons that we have from the study of history.

10:53The European Union is no different.

10:55If you believe progress is inevitable, you're on your way to seeing that progress decline.

11:01OK, just finally, you're coming up to the end of your second term

11:04as president of the Eurogroup.

11:06You're running for a third term.

11:08Have other countries declared that they're going to run against you

11:12or what's the situation?

11:13So no formal declarations have happened yet, but of course it's open to every country

11:17to decide do they want to put forward a candidate or how do they want to vote.

11:22I'm really encouraged by the level of support that I have at the moment,

11:27but really all my focus is on completing my current mandate,

11:31which takes me all up to July,

11:33and then on the basis of my track record,

11:35asking countries to continue to support me in that work.

11:39We have a few weeks to go before we get to that point,

11:41and as we have just discussed, an awful lot can happen in a number of weeks

11:44in the world that we're in,

11:46but I am encouraged by the support I've currently received.

11:49OK, well, Pascal Dunneau, Finance Minister for Ireland

11:51and president of the Eurogroup,

11:52thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

11:54Thank you, Shona.

"A UE deve tomar decisões para defender a ordem multilateral", afirma o presidente do Eurogrupo

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