OVAReact Podcast S05 E04 - Clean Start After Incarceration with Teresa Njoroge - video Dailymotion

Capital FM Kenya

OVAReact Podcast S05 E04 - Clean Start After Incarceration with Teresa Njoroge  Follow us on: https://twitter.com/capitalfmkenya/ https://www.facebook.com/capitalfmkenya https://www.instagram.com/capitalfmkenya  Subscribe to Capital FM News for More: https://goo.gl/um4AGk  98.4 Capital FM 93.0 Western Kenya 98.5 Nakuru and Nyeri 104.5 Malindi 102.7 Garissa 103.9 Meru 106.5 Kitui 104.9 Voi  #CapitalFmKenya #OVAReactPodcast

Transcript

00:00welcome to the overreact podcast in a society that tries to put women in a box let's overreact

00:09this is your girl mumu hoya and this is your girl lash angela and it's your girl angela one boy and

00:15we have an amazing guest you want to just say who you are teresa and you're okay and we're so

00:20excited to be back yes uh perhaps you have been overreacting with us since we came back and we

00:27said this is not just your usual comeback it's a revolution we are telling stories of women and

00:33who are changing you know spaces who are changing uh the narrative and the status quo uh you might

00:39have caught christine and jorogesh from elite women we hosted the amazing co-founder of elite women

00:45uh she is going to be uh hosting us this weekend and lash is going to be one of the moderators for

00:52her event called graceful transitions where we've got to talk about different faces of womanhood and

00:58what that looks like and in terms of like the resources the spaces we can create uh to thrive

01:04as we transition so ladies um welcome thank you how are you feeling i'm feeling good i'm feeling as

01:12i'm feeling as colorful as i look the sunshine yes i'm bringing the glow right and i'm bringing the love

01:18hey february is far gone but it's good to continue you know with the season of love

01:25yes i'm bringing old man is aesthetics always always underwhelming me too what you feeling

01:30um reflective um a space of calmness uh we've just wrapped up q1 and so what's next yeah um as we

01:42zero into close towards media yeah so reflective it feels wild oh my god how like where is time

01:51growing yeah we were just saying happy new year the other day and now and now you're telling us

01:56that we're starting to plan about q2 but to throw it back um when we had uh uh our hills connect event

02:06in march and it was all about like accelerating action and we had for those who hadn't attended

02:12or even don't know what i'm talking about so sister speaks global um has uh events called hills connect

02:18and we usually feature different women and in march we wanted to celebrate women change makers

02:25accelerate accelerating action and teresa droge was one of them so i'm really happy because we've been

02:30wanting to have you here on the podcast um so i want to give you this opportunity to maybe

02:36for those who don't know who you are and if you don't know who she is you're living under a rock

02:41powerhouse and tell us who you are and um and also your journey about clean start africa so you're the

02:49ceo and founder of clean start africa indeed thank you so very much for having me it was such an

02:55incredible event with sister speaks global i loved how you were intentional with setting the tone and

03:02pace for international women's month like we kicked off international women's month with such a

03:08phenomenal event where we had incredible speakers and women gathered around and it was just phenomenal

03:15conversations and i and i feel like i got my spark during that event and i've been on the go since

03:23that particular event so keep up the amazing work that you do i'm teresa njeruge founder ceo clean

03:29start africa it's an organization that works to empower women girls and children who have been

03:35justice impacted and we go around correctional institutions in the country empowering these

03:42women girls and children um that's where we begin our journey but most importantly we continue

03:48journeying with them post incarceration to support them to rebuild their lives um and continue thriving

03:55in society but while that is one arm of what we do we're also very keen on systemic change

04:01and reason being 70 percent of these women girls and children are behind bars due to poverty related cases

04:09so it's very heartbreaking to know that we have criminalized poverty because poverty should not be

04:16the reason why someone is ending up behind birds because poverty is not a crime yes but we

04:22yeah it's a circumstance it's a social economic circumstance so they're trying to fend for

04:28themselves and especially the children so innocent um not their crime yet their sentence we truly need

04:37to be a little bit more sensitive and therefore clean start advocates for deletion of laws in our petty

04:44offenses act within our penal court and um it's just incredible to see them rebuild their lives and continue

04:53taking good care of their families or continue thriving within society um and to see progress when it comes

05:01to relooking at the laws in kenya yeah such an important work you're doing uh in a world where the face of

05:09poverty looks like women like women bear the face of poverty and and of course um you know looking at

05:17what you're doing i think it's such a powerful platform to speak on you know what that does to to give

05:24uh women second chances yeah so yeah your flowers yeah thank you and thank you for amplifying them

05:35because they remain invisible yeah and they've been silenced so it's not any other typical day you'll

05:42wake up thinking about children in prisons or a woman behind birds you know so thank you for bringing

05:48them to the light and amplifying yeah it would be one it'd be awesome one day to actually have uh one of

05:56your women you've helped and so we'll reach out we'll reach out that would be fantastic because that

06:02would be a really nice story to tell us yeah yeah yeah and i was gonna say about the irony of you know

06:08the african woman is supposed to be you know it's seen or rather um portrayed to be this you know woman

06:16of strength who is hard working and also reflecting if the the prize of hard work is you know the

06:23or rather the the prize of success is hard work every african woman will be successful yeah yes

06:30pay me pay me my money hard work

06:32yeah yeah it's true it's very true but thank you for changing the the composition and doing what you're

06:40doing yeah it's a privilege um for those that may not know your journey yeah in a nutshell how can

06:45you give the compounded version of it and basically because that is your inspiration behind your

06:50organization yeah yeah indeed uh this work was inspired by my own first-hand experience when i had a

06:58false um arrest due to handling a transaction at the bank where i worked and when i was asked to pay

07:07bribes um i think when you know your values it's very easy to make a decision it was a no i wasn't going

07:13to pay the bribe and so we continued with a malicious prosecution for close to almost three

07:20years and i was asked again to pay bribes and again i said no but the stakes were really high

07:26at that particular point because i had just been blessed with my firstborn daughter

07:29omar which in my dialect means truth because that's what i was praying for so much as i was being blessed

07:37with her and i honestly thought i'd get justice in the courts in in our courts in our criminal justice

07:45system but i ended up being um wrongfully sentenced to serve a one-year uh sentence behind birth

07:55and i served that entire one-year sentence accompanied by my three-month-old daughter

08:03so it was very difficult uh going into prison and knowing too well that i hadn't committed these crimes

08:12and knowing that i had been convicted for doing the right thing it didn't make sense wait a minute you

08:18were three months postpartum yes yeah that's so with my first one wow wow yeah and if i'm not wrong

08:26you can go to prison with your child up to five years right and then the law can take all your

08:31a family member yeah correct yeah yeah yeah they've lowered it to four years now oh no yeah okay yeah

08:38because of the impact that the environment behind birth has on the children actually at the time i was

08:45serving my sentence a decade ago um people could mothers could say with their children up to seven

08:52years but the impact of that environment on the children irreversible that's so heavy that is heavy

09:00and actually to speak more about the environment so um teresa has a ted talk that you can watch where she

09:07um really articulates um her story and she the part that stuck with me which i was saying of uh

09:15is um the reality when the doors shut and she no longer became teresa and jorge but 415 stroke 11

09:23um that led me to reflect on a lot even just myself even if you can think of yourselves girls like

09:31that that element of just it's honestly like going into a cave and the cave is shut down and you're

09:39in a season of darkness um we had you before in a previous event where you really talked about the

09:46environment um i guess describe on what that experience was in terms for for for people to

09:54understand why they're changing from seven to five to four but how have you dealt emotionally um i know

10:03it's been 10 years and probably you're in a much different place emotionally but there are people

10:09who have a a version of prison it might not be prison prison per se where they have been in in there's a

10:18lot going on in the weight of their shoulders a lot of the women you said uh are people who have

10:24what on the on the right side of the law where they were being victims of domestic violence but in this

10:30case of defending themselves unfortunately uh the person who was their perpetrator ends up dying and

10:38they find themselves in those uh situations so um you're definitely a beacon of light uh for people

10:45who have found themselves in that situation and are trying to navigate out of it so yeah just like

10:51take us through about that particular environment and how you have what have you done to get yourself

10:56here sitting with us you know most people would hide away yeah indeed prison is i mean there's no

11:04luxury at all um and especially prisons um in the african context here in kenya and um i'd also like

11:15to highlight the fact that a lot of our correctional institutions were built by our colonizers um these

11:23were the places where they held the men who resisted um colonial rule um you know as the colonizers

11:34tried to subjugate the locals so that they could take their land and take over what belonged to us

11:39now um prisons were never built for women because the women were left at home caring for the families

11:48while men went to fight and um the ones that were arrested were the ones then that were taken to

11:55prison so unfortunately six years post independence plus we still have the same infrastructure that the

12:04colon the colonizers left and those are the same structures that the women get to use so you can

12:10imagine how worse of it is for children and we're talking about from the moment you get arrested

12:17and you go into a police cell it's not like you will find this particular police cell is specifically

12:24built to cater for women and women needs and that journey begins from that moment to throughout

12:36the judiciary as you go through your prosecution and your case all the way to prison and um if it's

12:45not just the infrastructure where we actually have a women prison it's normally a wing an afterthought

12:53that has been added to the main men prison so right from the infrastructure to who's in charge

13:03um it's very intimidating for women most most likely the person who arrested you is a male officer

13:12that that was my case um most often the prosecutor will be a man the judge will be a man and then

13:20um the people escorting you in the kenya prison pass as you go to prison they've got guns it's meant so

13:25it's very intimidating it's a very intimidating setup for women but uh having said that the prison setup

13:33itself other than the shame because it's a very criminalized space and the kind of um rehabilitation

13:42that happens is very punitive unfortunately it's still that style that the colonizer had so for example

13:50if i want to take a count and the count happens like seven to ten times a day you've got to squat

13:57it's very demeaning um from i mean there are no plates no spoons um to the kind of food itself that

14:06you're taking and all this nothing has been put into account the children accompanying the mothers

14:13so to lack of essentials i.e running water toilets and you know the things that give you dignity and

14:22esteem it's one thing that your freedom is gone it's another the kind of an environment the language

14:28the food like it's literally built to break you wow and as you said very unfortunate that a lot of

14:38these people and we're not just it's not a number we're guessing we have done research so we've got the

14:47data and other organizations have done research as well 70 of those incarcerated are in due to poverty

14:54related cases they are not criminals and i bet even the 30 that's behind bars they are in as victims

15:03sexual gender-based violence things we never think about and other than the humiliation and the dignity

15:13that it takes away from you and your children and i say children because while you might have gone in

15:20with one or two children 90 of the women behind bars are mothers sole caregivers 90 yeah they may be even

15:31young exactly they're between uh so their children are between one to ten years 65 of the children of

15:38these mothers are between the ages of one to ten and that's the time these children really need

15:44their mom and mom is being separated from these children why because she was hooking because she

15:50was loitering basically because she's poor and because we still have colonial laws that criminalize

15:58hooking like things that they're just shouldn't like it's it doesn't make sense like if you look at

16:08the budget of what the country is using towards incarcerating these poor women i always ask myself

16:17why can't we take the very same budget and invest in these women it doesn't take much just get capital

16:24get them into groups get them decent means of livelihood we can do it but what do we choose

16:32the easy way out why they are poor that's wow just giving me goosebumps i am moved um obviously the

16:41society castigates women you know how can you be on the wrong how could you steal it's and lady like

16:48how did you build the mental toughness and the strength that you have um you know one one day you

16:55your identity is taken and you are a number the second you know justice walks and you're on the side the

17:01other side and you're supposed to face the world so i'm sure it took a toll on you on your mental you

17:09know strength how did you rebuild yourself past the identity that the crime gave you you know it's so

17:15unfortunate that women you come into this world you've got all these plans and dreams and ambitions

17:22and um barriers that have been put along the way literally just because you're a woman that you have

17:32to overcome and sitting in prison thinking to myself my goodness all the plans and ambitions that i had

17:39had when i was in the financial sector and here i am my identity literally is now a number a prison

17:46number 415 stroke 11 and you start questioning yourself like really so many questions um you doubt yourself

17:59um even your very identity is put to the test and you know i thought prison was tough coming out

18:08with i found this tag that society already had for me ex-con so everywhere i went this is the ex-con

18:18and that puts not the physical bars but secondary bars that follow you like a shadow

18:26they're pointing at you you can't get a job no one trusts you no one even wants to know how you ended up

18:32there it was so difficult to a point where i was so depressed so depressed were it not for my family

18:42i wouldn't have been able to overcome the depression but my family was so supportive because when people

18:51love on you understand and empathize with what you're going through you might not have been through the

18:59situation but you're empathizing it helps you to rebuild but you see it was the experience of

19:07finding support that made me empathize more with the women that i had met because day one of leaving

19:15prison no one's waiting for you at the gate you do not even have transport to leave the prison to get to

19:21the city you have absolutely nothing no one no house no food no clothing so the the first question

19:29is where do you even begin to look for your children where do you begin in life where do you begin and

19:35especially if they've been taken by the states yeah yeah you know and by the time you reunite with your

19:42children your children are so traumatized so angry mom where did you go no goodbye you haven't been in

19:51touch do you know what we've been through they don't even want to see you and you're reuniting with

19:59them you don't even have anywhere to take them and the society no one wants to come anywhere near you

20:05so you're being pushed farther and farther and farther away not because you're a criminal but because of

20:12the your social economic status and the system is even making it worse the very system that's meant to

20:20offer support for you to build yourself up so um difficult as it was for me to rebuild at least i had

20:31family support and then the empathy for the millions because um i think the percentage is at 12.5 million

20:43kenyans live below the poverty line that's great that's under a dollar a day right it's four it's

20:51about 5 000 kenya shillings per month in the rural setting and it's 8 000 kenya shillings a month in

20:59the urban setting and the women we work with and between a dollar to three dollars a day at the

21:06point of arrest wow that is so mind-blowing to actually hear it in numbers and you personifying

21:15what these women are going through what they're earning and how they're just trying

21:18yeah but we're we're punishing them just for trying just for surviving um we just got to take a

21:25breath that was a lot um so just taking it back during our women's uh brunch our women's day brunch

21:33you were very open and honest about the biases that you believe found you in prison if you could

21:40rewind and go back to 2009 and and see the younger version of teresa you've just been arrested

21:47uh you're fighting for your life you're fighting for your reputation um someone has tried to bribe you

21:53you know and through it all with all the odds against you finally you do get out of prison but

22:01you still have to navigate life and there's so many challenges if you could look back at the 2009 version

22:06of yourself what would you tell her um to look at people wherever it is that i meet them

22:17um from where i'm meeting them at and not meet them with a preconceived bias and lens

22:28and the reason why i say that is because when i met the women in prison i was too harsh on them and

22:36myself i didn't want them anywhere near me um or my daughter and that's because i had already

22:45preconceived i had this bias lens that i wore coming into prison that these are criminals um these are

22:55the lazy women who don't work hard um and that's why they are in prison only to come and find out later

23:06that the statistics that i keep reading about people who live below the poverty line are people it's not

23:12it's it's not a statistic it's a reality these are people and then and you know them and i know them

23:21and um i also used to think that the reason why they are hooking or they're begging or they're loitering

23:30looking for opportunities is because they're not working hard i honestly did not think there's

23:36something like not having access to opportunities like literally you do not have access to a job you

23:47do not have access to continue with your higher learning education opportunities you don't have access to

23:54that um sometimes when we we've got privilege in the sense that you know you come from a family where you

24:03were provided for well educated um you've you've found work your you know your dreams are coming true

24:10sometimes you you you get a bias of thinking that it's them versus us that it's the only difference

24:19between we and them is the access to opportunities yeah that's the only difference so what i would say to

24:25teresa 2009 you can talk to her like she's there yes um remove the bias lens when you're looking at

24:35people and then also in 2009 you know i didn't think i would overcome the barriers that were i was up

24:45against you and you do not know how strong you are until you get to handle these obstacles so what i'd say

24:54to women and younger terraces out there um transitions uh disruptions these things are very disorienting

25:06because they come in the way of the plants that we have made but what i would say is that i've come to

25:14learn now a decade plus post my transitions and my detours there's actually magic just swing with the waves

25:24and learn how to make magic out of them because when i look at what we have done and achieved with clean start

25:30now i wish in 2009 i was like you know what we're going to dance with these ways and make magic out of

25:37them so you will get out of it navigate it amazing um so you came out of uh you know the prison right and

25:46we are um sometimes we have to overcome the prison of the mind and and and and i think it's you know

25:53something that okay okay yeah like some of us because of you know how we've been brought up we live in like

26:05some sort of a prison and i believe when you say past the gate you're on your own you know when that

26:12gate like and the lock clings you're on your own how are you unlocking the prison of the mind for me

26:20thousands and hundreds of women that you impact with the work that you do wow you hit it right on

26:25on the head it's all in our mind that's where everything is at i can't remember who said and i might not

26:34give him justice he said that when you're able to control and manage um actions the action when you're

26:45able to be strongly in charge of your actions and what you say how you react to what happens to you

26:53then you're able to manage life and the only reason why you'll be able to manage what you say and how you

27:00react to what happens to you is because you're in charge of your mind what's happening in there

27:07so things will come at you in life um the detours the transitions the you know interruptions

27:15things will come at you but how are you strengthening your mind muscle to handle whatever comes your way

27:24because it's how you act and react towards what has happened that that determines the difference

27:31between one and the other and i say that because i've seen so many women uh men as well literally

27:38leave prison and commit suicide like literally why the sweetness of death was much better than the

27:46thought of overcoming the obstacle and leaving so it's all in the mind and what you say to yourself

27:54how you react to it what you say yeah so we need to keep training our mind to handle these things

28:02that come to us in life as we come to a close i wish we could speak to you longer and we would

28:08definitely need to have you again and just connect and just have you so that we can just unpack

28:13everything um and and this can be for everybody uh using what mo has mentioned about unlocking the mind

28:21what's what is your 30 second trick in terms of when you're feeling like you're back as 4 15 stroke 11

28:29how do you switch from that moment to be like girl i can do this it's just the calmness okay just

28:40breathe in and out if possible take a glass of water because it's those quick few minutes when whatever it is

28:50has happened that this determines the decision you make at that particular time that determines which

28:57way you go and whether it will be a success or not try as much as possible especially during that moment

29:03to be as calm as possible why it's in calmness that you're able to see things clearly and make the best

29:11decisions yeah wow you need your own podcast too many lessons and nuggets to unpack oh my god wow you

29:22know when you were saying i think my my motto is um when i am feeling trapped is uh it's my favorites by

29:31henry havelock ellis he was an american author i think and he says uh all the art of living lies in the

29:40fine mingling of learning when to let go and when to hold on right and so a lot of us let go while

29:46holding on and you need to make room sometimes you need to hold on because you need to build that

29:52muscle and get strong so you need to learn that's a very powerful when's when's time so and you need

29:59to let go a lot yes to make room for the next level exactly and we can't wait to see who you'll be

30:06in 10 years from now yeah thank you yeah yeah yes congratulations on what you're achieving

30:12and the spaces that you're creating for other women with a similar story to you with pleasure thank you

30:17for having me thank you and we hope in the future we'll be able to uh interview even have um the

30:23privilege of one of your beneficiaries i just to see you know the real testimony of what you're doing

30:29that will be fantastic that yeah thank you keep radiating the light you're radiating and being a

30:35light to the world thank you yeah thank you very much we're so happy to celebrate you and celebrate

30:41your achievements um and there's one thing that you also said uh during our brunch which was you have

30:47to feel it to heal it and i thought that was just really really powerful being able to feel everything

31:02and understand why you're feeling that and i think also that becomes a catalyst for allowing you to let

31:07go yeah so true thank you for sharing your journey and just being so vulnerable and open with us yeah

31:14and to your point around that you know something i had a conversation with my sister and she was just

31:19i was just checking in on her and she was telling me i'm just removed from the outcome

31:25okay i'm like how are you feeling uh how are things going i'm just removed from the outcome

31:32like she doesn't care yeah like you know she's detached from the outcome because she doesn't have the

31:37control yeah yeah yeah and i love that i love that wow wow we have definitely

31:44been overreacting with theresa over here more so internally than us as screaming and being joyful

31:50but nonetheless you know you are a star a light thank you and it's what i was sharing that you

31:57do have an anointing on you and may god give you the grace and strength that you need to keep going

32:03because you are truly a beacon of light and it has been a blessing to sit here and have you share your

32:10your story in our platform so thank you for honoring our invite for anyone who wants to connect with

32:16you how can they find you yeah so we're on all social media linkedin facebook instagram twitter

32:22as teresa and clean start africa our website www.cleanstartafrica.org um yeah and uh it would be so

32:35lovely for them to either inbox us uh call us our contacts are on there uh for us to see how to

32:42continue collaborating um to bring the much needed change yeah lovely amazing and to all of you out

32:49there watching and listening um you can catch us live each and every wednesday on capital fm 98.4

32:55on the airwaves um you can also catch us on the sister speaks global podcast page on spotify and apple

33:02um you can also catch us on the capital fm youtube page under overreact and make sure that you follow

33:07us across all our social media platforms at sister speaks 254 and also capital fm kenya and of course

33:14overreact podcast page on instagram to keep up to date with everything that's happening around

33:19yeah and just to keep drumming it in we said we are coming bigger bolder and better it's a revolution

33:27baby girls let's overreact

OVAReact Podcast S05 E04 - Clean Start After Incarceration with Teresa Njoroge

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