"A aspereza da linguagem preocupa-me bastante", diz o primeiro-ministro irlandês à Euronews
Em entrevista exclusiva à Euronews, o taoiseach irlandês Micheál Martin partilhou as suas preocupações sobre a posição da Hungria na UE, a deterioração do discurso público e o futuro da adesão da Ucrânia à União.
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2025/05/15/a-aspereza-da-linguagem-preocupa-me-bastante-diz-o-primeiro-ministro-irlandes-a-euronews
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00:10Meu guest esta semana é o Irish Prime Minister Antísoc, Micheál Martín.
00:14Ele fala com a me seguindo a primeira reunião com o Prime Minister
00:17com a Ursula von der Leyen, President da Comissão.
00:20Ele fala com a lei sobre o ombro da guerra com os Estados Unidos
00:24e o que ele fala como o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é o que é.
00:29O Irish Prime Minister Antísoc, thank you very much for joining us on The Europe Conversation.
00:34You're very welcome. Delighted to be here.
00:36And you met with Ursula von der Leyen, your first time meeting her since becoming Taoiseach.
00:39Can I ask you first of all, the EU recently announced potential tariffs against the United States
00:45if there's no resolution to the 90-day negotiation period.
00:48Is Ireland supportive of that?
00:50We're members of the European Union and we appreciate the very measured and strategic approach
00:55that the Commission led by President von der Leyen has taken to date
00:59and we've been supportive of that.
01:01The pathway here has to be one of negotiation.
01:04And we welcome the fact that there's been a degree of engagement
01:06between the US administration and the European Commission
01:09on the fundamental issues pertaining to tariffs
01:12and trade overall between the European Union and the United States.
01:17And remember, of course, apart from goods, there's a huge services trade
01:21between the US and Europe and Europe's in deficit on services, surplus on goods.
01:26So on the countermeasures, every member of the state will have issues with some aspects on that.
01:32But that's inevitable.
01:34We don't want to get to a position where Europe may have to deploy countermeasures.
01:38We, from the outset, don't believe in the imposition of tariffs.
01:42In relation to pharmaceuticals, which make up around 50% of Ireland's exports to the United States,
01:47I mean, that would have a huge impact on the Irish economy.
01:50We have a strong centre of innovative drugs.
01:52We believe, even within Europe, we need to create a good window, an IP window,
01:57to enable companies to get their deserved reward for investment in research and investment in innovation.
02:04So we always have to support innovation.
02:08Now, in terms of any deal, I think the citizen needs access to medicines.
02:13And again, Europe and America have a lot in common here.
02:17And let's just move on, because Ireland is taking the presidency of the European Council in 2026,
02:22and part of that will be negotiating the seven-year EU budget.
02:26There is a very strong consensus that defence and security has to be a key part of that.
02:30Can you see where the trade-offs might be in relation to the budget?
02:34Will there be a reduction, for example, on the common agricultural policy?
02:38Can Ireland see where there may be trade-offs?
02:40Well, Ireland is very focused on the common agricultural policy.
02:44We're focused on research as a key part of our competitiveness agenda within Europe.
02:51I'm a strong believer in research myself and the benefits that flow from it.
02:55We've just discussed pharmaceutical research and the important impact that has had on lives and lifespan.
03:00So I think the fundamental question will be how much money will be available.
03:09The need to develop some own resources.
03:11And the fact that most people are looking for more expenditure on different aspects of the budget,
03:16but not as clear on how we produce the revenue to meet the desired expenditure.
03:23And, of course, we have to deal with the next generation EU, paying back the loans and so on.
03:27Ireland supported that, even though we're net contributors.
03:29We supported, if you like, the big bazooka approach to COVID-19 and the collective approach.
03:35Did Ireland support something like common borrowing for defence?
03:38I think on defence, we accept the inevitability that in terms of the multi-financial framework,
03:44there will be member states who will want some portion of that to be allocated to defence needs.
03:49Ireland has no interest in getting in the way of other countries in terms of their necessities,
03:57their existential sense of having to protect themselves, given the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
04:03That has changed the entire security paradigm in Europe.
04:09Ireland itself understands we have vulnerabilities on cyber security, on subsea cable, and protecting those.
04:17And that's why we're involved in a lot of PESCO projects, or quite a number of PESCO projects on that,
04:21and why we've negotiated an individually tailored programme with NATO on the Partnership for Peace
04:26on those themes of cyber security and subsea cables as well.
04:31And are you concerned about the threat of democracy in Europe at the moment,
04:34when you see the growth of quite hard-right parties, whether it's Germany, all across Europe at the moment,
04:41and also you see certain aspects of it within the White House administration when it comes to freedom of expression due process?
04:49Well, I'm very worried about the coarseness of language in public discourse at the moment, no matter where you go.
04:56Even in Ireland, and social media has facilitated this, this kind of sharp soundbite of hate,
05:03of dismissing everybody if you don't agree with their view, of labelling people and putting people into pigeonholes.
05:11The capacity to have debate, as we're having now, is fast slipping away from the public realm a bit, and that worries me.
05:19Are you concerned about it in the United States, though, or even in Europe?
05:23And even if you look in places like Hungary, the reduction of rights for LGBT communities?
05:27I'm concerned about that in Hungary in terms of the undermining of the LGBTI community, the banning of pride parades.
05:36These are very fundamental issues that Europe has to engage with, the European Union.
05:40And there's a tendency, I look at some of the rhetoric that's emanating from the Hungarian government towards Europe.
05:45I mean, we'll conquer Europe, or we'll take them over, or we'll have a common something.
05:50So all that stuff, I think, is inflaming public opinion in a very negative way.
05:56I mean, most European citizens like the fact that they're part of the European Union.
06:00I said in a speech recently, you know, in the European Union, you know, we have all of that freedom of speech.
06:07We have regulated markets.
06:09We have good standards in food and across the board.
06:13We have stability.
06:14Who wouldn't want to live in an environment like that?
06:18Do you think that you should do more in relation to this?
06:20Yes, and I think also we should do more to provide a positive narrative of what being a member of the European Union means.
06:27Would you like to see maybe Article 7 or other responses?
06:30I think there are many instruments we have.
06:32Article 7 is one.
06:34I think we should pursue all instruments.
06:35I think, you know, we've always accepted unanimity on certain aspects.
06:43We think it's been abused.
06:45And I believe the European Union will not become workable if that abuse continues.
06:51And I think there's only so much member states can take in terms of willful abuse of the veto.
06:56We've seen it play out in Ukraine.
07:00And so there are a number of instruments that we can use and we shouldn't be afraid to use them.
07:04In Ukraine, Ireland is obviously very supportive of enlargement and Ukraine becoming an EU member state.
07:10Do you think that's going to be possible, seeing as that it's all blocked at the moment?
07:13It's outrageous what's going on at the moment.
07:16In my view, it's essential that Ukraine becomes a member of the European Union for geopolitical reasons.
07:20And I think Europe probably missed opportunities over the last decade or two in terms of the Western Balkans as well.
07:29And I'd like to see, you know, Montenegro and North Macedonia and other states in the Western Baltics in due course become members also.
07:36And I've been an advocate of this for quite some time.
07:40But it seems that people are exploiting the mechanisms of the veto and so on.
07:45As in Viktor Orl in Hungary.
07:47Yeah, unreasonably in my view. Unreasonably.
07:49Europe has made a lot of attempts to try and unblock these issues to in mediation and engagement.
07:57And likewise, you know, in terms of the EPF, the European Peace Facility as well, has been,
08:04has slowed down Ireland's contribution to Ukraine.
08:08We contributed non-lethal finance to that.
08:11It hasn't been able to be utilized and so on.
08:14Now we're doing it bilaterally.
08:15One area that you have been at odds with the EU consensus is in relation to Israel and Gaza.
08:22And earlier, before, you've criticized Israel for committing war crimes, be it starvation and so on.
08:29Tell us about your engagement with Ursula von der Leyen in relation to that.
08:33It's quite shocking what is now happening within Gaza.
08:38To have an effective blockade for 50 days and more, 60 days maybe now, in terms of food, in terms of the essentials of life,
08:46the bare necessities of life, in my view, must be considered a war crime.
08:52And I don't say that easily.
08:54I want the resolution.
08:56We want the restoration of the ceasefire.
08:58We want the release of all hostages.
08:59In my view, it was shocking to take people as hostages.
09:02These were innocent people at a concert in their kibbutz.
09:06I went to kibbutz Beirut myself to see it firsthand, the impact of the horrific Hamas attack on Israel.
09:14And that was shocking and horrible.
09:17And I've condemned it from the outset.
09:19And I went there to show empathy with the people who had been attacked.
09:21So all those, I mean, the hostages should have been released a long time ago.
09:25But the war that has been waged in response, in my view, has lost any moral compass at this stage,
09:33in terms of its unacceptable impact on the civilian population and on children.
09:38And in Ireland, there's real desperate sadness now and horror and a sense of helplessness
09:44at what we see in our TV screens of young children on stretchers, in hospitals, very badly injured,
09:52many families being wiped out, kids being orphaned.
09:57From a humanity point of view, it's beyond comprehension.
10:01And what's happening now in terms of a doubling down by Israel in terms of occupation
10:05and intensification of the war on the ground, they've bombed hospitals.
10:09And I know that Israel will say, well, Hamas are in the hospitals and so forth.
10:13Like, kids need a basic access to medicine.
10:17Many externally funded hospitals from international organizations or indeed from other countries
10:22have been bombed.
10:25Life has been, I mean, humanitarian workers have been murdered in terms of Red Crescent and so on
10:31that we saw recently.
10:32And I think the weaponization of the very basic necessities of life, from my perspective,
10:40is a breach of humanitarian law.
10:42And I think that raises very significant issues for us then for Europe in terms of the EU-Israel
10:48Association Agreement and the human rights clauses that are part of that.
10:53And so there has to be a discussion of that now.
10:56But when we look back at this moment, obviously the EU being a union of international law,
11:02what will you say about Europe's response?
11:05That is my core point.
11:06I think this is fundamental to Europe and to the European Union and what we stand for.
11:10And, you know, we have communicated to other countries around the world in terms of Ukraine
11:14and the violation of its territorial integrity.
11:18A different war and the situation in the Middle East, I accept fully the complexities and all
11:24of that, but it's the unacceptable level of death and destruction and displacement.
11:32And it is, it is, many people have said that going back to 2011, it's hell on earth.
11:37And it really poses the most fundamental of questions to the European Union in terms of
11:43our values and what we're prepared to stand up for.
11:48OK, Micheál Martin, Prime Minister of Ireland and Taoiseach, thank you very much for joining
