"Mi preoccupa molto la volgarità", dice a Euronews il primo ministro irlandese

euronews (in Italiano)

15/05/2025

"Mi preoccupa molto la volgarità", dice a Euronews il primo ministro irlandese

In un'intervista esclusiva con Euronews, il Taoiseach irlandese, Micheál Martin, ha esposto le sue preoccupazioni sulla posizione dell'Ungheria all'interno dell'UE, sul deterioramento del dibattito pubblico e sul futuro dell'adesione dell'Ucraina all'Unione.

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00:00Hello and welcome to the Europe Conversation.

00:10My guest this week is Irish Prime Minister Antísoc, Micheál Martin.

00:14He speaks to me following his first meeting as Prime Minister

00:17with Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission.

00:20He talks to her about the ongoing trade war with the United States

00:24and what he describes as hell on earth, Gaza.

00:26Micheál Martin, Irish Prime Minister and Antísoc,

00:31thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

00:34You're very welcome. Delighted to be here.

00:36And you met with Ursula von der Leyen, your first time meeting her since becoming Antísoc.

00:39Can I ask you, first of all, the EU recently announced potential tariffs against the United States

00:45if there's no resolution to the 90-day negotiation period.

00:48Is Ireland supportive of that?

00:50We're members of the European Union and we appreciate the very measured and strategic approach

00:55that the Commission, led by President von der Leyen, has taken to date

00:59and we've been supportive of that.

01:01The pathway here has to be one of negotiation.

01:04And we welcome the fact that there's been a degree of engagement

01:06between the U.S. administration and the European Commission

01:09on the fundamental issues pertaining to tariffs

01:12and trade overall between the European Union and the United States.

01:17And remember, of course, apart from goods, there's a huge services trade between the U.S. and Europe

01:23and Europe's in deficit on services, surplus on goods.

01:27So on the countermeasures, every member state will have issues with some aspects on that.

01:32But that's inevitable.

01:34We don't want to get to a position where Europe may have to deploy countermeasures.

01:38We, from the outset, don't believe in the imposition of tariffs.

01:42In relation to pharmaceuticals, which make up around 50% of Ireland's exports to the United States,

01:47I mean, that would have a huge impact on the Irish economy.

01:50We have a strong centre of innovative drugs.

01:52We believe, even within Europe, we need to create a good window, an IP window,

01:57to enable companies to get their deserved reward for investment in research

02:02and investment in innovation.

02:04So we always have to support innovation.

02:06Now, in terms of any deal, I think the citizen needs access to medicines.

02:13And again, Europe and America have a lot in common here.

02:17And let's just move on, because Ireland is taking the presidency of the European Council in 2026,

02:22and part of that will be negotiating the seven-year EU budget.

02:26There is a very strong consensus that defence and security has to be a key part of that.

02:30Can you see where the trade-offs might be in relation to the budget?

02:34Will there be a reduction, for example, on the Common Agricultural Policy?

02:38Can Ireland see where there may be trade-offs?

02:40Well, Ireland is very focused on the Common Agricultural Policy.

02:44We're focused on research as a key part of our competitiveness agenda within Europe.

02:51I'm a strong believer in research myself and the benefits that flow from it.

02:55We've just discussed pharmaceutical research and the important impact that has had on lives and lifespan.

03:00So, I think the fundamental question will be how much money will be available.

03:09The need to develop some own resources.

03:11And the fact that most people are looking for more expenditure on different aspects of the budget,

03:16but not as clear on how we produce the revenue to meet the desired expenditure.

03:22And, of course, we have to deal with the next-generation EU, paying back the loans and so on.

03:27Ireland supported that, even though we're net contributors.

03:29We supported, if you like, the big bazooka approach to COVID-19 and the collective approach.

03:35Did Ireland support something like common borrowing for defence?

03:38I think on defence, we accept the inevitability that in terms of the multi-financial framework,

03:44there will be member states who will want some portion of that to be allocated to defence needs.

03:49Ireland has no interest in getting in the way of other countries in terms of their necessities,

03:57their existential sense of having to protect themselves, given the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

04:03That has changed the entire security paradigm in Europe.

04:09Ireland itself understands we have vulnerabilities on cyber security, on subsea cable, and protecting those.

04:17And that's why we're involved in a lot of PESCO projects, or quite a number of PESCO projects on that,

04:21and why we've negotiated an individually tailored programme with NATO on the Partnership for Peace

04:26on those themes of cyber security and subsea cables as well.

04:31And are you concerned about the threat of democracy in Europe at the moment,

04:34when you see the growth of quite hard-right parties, whether it's Germany, all across Europe at the moment,

04:41and also you see certain aspects of it within the White House administration when it comes to freedom of expression due process?

04:49Well, I'm very worried about the coarseness of language in public discourse at the moment, no matter where you go.

04:56Even in Ireland, and social media has facilitated this, this kind of sharp soundbite of hate,

05:03of dismissing everybody if you don't agree with their view, of labelling people and putting people into pigeonholes.

05:11The capacity to have debate, as we're having now, is fast slipping away from the public realm a bit, and that worries me.

05:19Are you concerned about it in the United States, though, or even in Europe?

05:23And even if you look in places like Hungary, the reduction of rights for LGBT communities?

05:27I'm concerned about that in Hungary in terms of the undermining of the LGBTI community, the banning of pride parades.

05:36These are very fundamental issues that Europe has to engage with, the European Union.

05:40And there's a tendency, I look at some of the rhetoric that's emanating from the Hungarian government towards Europe.

05:45I mean, we'll conquer Europe, or we'll take them over, or we'll have a common something.

05:50So all that stuff is, I think, is inflaming public opinion in a very negative way.

05:56I mean, most European citizens like the fact that they're part of the European Union.

06:00I said in a speech recently, you know, in the European Union, you know, we have all of that freedom of speech.

06:07We have regulated markets.

06:09We have good standards in food and across the board.

06:13We have stability.

06:14Who wouldn't want to live in an environment like that?

06:18Do you think that you should do more in relation to this?

06:20Yes, and I think also we should do more to provide a positive narrative of what being a member of the European Union means.

06:27Would you like to see maybe Article 7 or other responses?

06:30I think there are many instruments we have.

06:32Article 7 is one.

06:34I think we should pursue all instruments.

06:35I think, you know, we've always accepted unanimity on certain aspects.

06:43We think it's been abused.

06:45And I believe the European Union will not become workable if that abuse continues.

06:51And I think there's only so much member states can take in terms of willful abuse of the veto.

06:57We've seen it play out in Ukraine.

07:00And so there are a number of instruments that we can use and we shouldn't be afraid to use them.

07:04In Ukraine, Ireland is obviously very supportive of enlargement and Ukraine becoming an EU member state.

07:10Do you think that's going to be possible, seeing as that it's all blocked at the moment?

07:13It's outrageous what's going on at the moment.

07:15In my view, it's essential that Ukraine becomes a member of the European Union for geopolitical reasons.

07:21And I think Europe probably missed opportunities over the last decade or two in terms of the Western Balkans as well.

07:28And I'd like to see, you know, Montenegro and North Macedonia and other states in the Western Baltics in due course become members also.

07:36And I've been an advocate of this for quite some time.

07:39But it seems that people are exploiting the mechanisms of the veto and so on.

07:45As in Viktor Orl in Hungary.

07:47Yeah, unreasonably in my view, unreasonably.

07:50Europe has made a lot of attempts to try and unblock these issues to in mediation and engagement.

07:56And likewise, you know, in terms of the EPF, the European Peace Facility as well, has slowed down Ireland's contribution to Ukraine.

08:08We contributed non-lethal finance to that, hasn't been able to be utilised and so on.

08:14Now we're doing it bilaterally.

08:15One area that you have been at odds with the EU consensus is in relation to Israel and Gaza.

08:21And earlier, before, you've criticised Israel for committing war crimes, be it starvation and so on.

08:30Tell us about your engagement with Ursula von der Leyen in relation to that.

08:33It's quite shocking what is now happening within Gaza.

08:37To have an effective blockade for 50 days and more, 60 days maybe now, in terms of food, in terms of the essentials of life,

08:46than the bare necessities of life, in my view, must be considered a war crime.

08:52And I don't say that easily.

08:54I want the resolution.

08:56We want the restoration of the ceasefire.

08:58We want the release of all hostages.

08:59In my view, it was shocking to take people as hostages.

09:02These were innocent people at a concert in their kibbutz.

09:06I went to Kibbutz Beirut myself to see it firsthand, the impact of the horrific Hamas attack on Israel.

09:15And that was shocking and horrible.

09:17And I've condemned it from the outset.

09:19And I went there to show empathy with the people who had been attacked.

09:22So all those, I mean, the hostages should have been released a long time ago.

09:24But the war that has been waged in response, in my view, has lost any moral compass at this stage

09:32in terms of its unacceptable impact on the civilian population and on children.

09:38And in Ireland, there's real desperate sadness now and horror and a sense of helplessness

09:44at what we see in our TV screens of young children on stretchers in hospitals,

09:49very badly injured, many families have been wiped out, kids have been orphaned.

09:57From a humanity point of view, it's beyond comprehension.

10:01And what's happening now in terms of a doubling down by Israel in terms of occupation

10:05and intensification of the war on the ground, they've bombed hospitals.

10:10And I know that Israel will say, well, Hamas are in the hospitals and so forth.

10:14Kids need a basic access to medicine.

10:16Many externally funded hospitals from international organizations or indeed from other countries

10:22have been bombed.

10:25Life has been, I mean, humanitarian workers have been murdered in terms of Red Crescent

10:30and so on that we saw recently.

10:33And I think the weaponization of the very basic necessities of life,

10:38from my perspective, is a breach of humanitarian law.

10:42And I think that raises very significant issues for us then for Europe in terms of the EU-Israel Association agreement

10:49and the human rights clauses that are part of that.

10:53And so there has to be a discussion of that now.

10:56But when we look back at this moment, obviously the EU being a union of international law,

11:02what will you say people will say about Europe's response?

11:04That is my core point.

11:06I think this is fundamental to Europe and to the European Union and what we stand for.

11:10And, you know, we have communicated to other countries around the world in terms of Ukraine

11:14and the violation of its territorial integrity.

11:18A different war and the situation in the Middle East, I accept fully the complexities and all of that.

11:24But it's the unacceptable level of death and destruction and displacement.

11:32And it is, many people have said that going back to 2011, it's hell on earth.

11:37And it really poses the most fundamental of questions to the European Union

11:42in terms of our values and what we're prepared to stand up for.

11:48Okay, Micheál Martin, Prime Minister of Ireland and Taoiseach,

11:50thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

11:53Very welcome indeed, yeah, thank you.

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