In this episode of the Biscuits & Jam Podcast, Southern Living's Sid Evans sits down with Jess Pryles, the Hardcore Carnivore, who traded Melbourne for Austin and fell in love with Texas barbecue. From completing a meat science program to sharing her expertise with everyday cooks, Jess has made it her mission to perfect meat cooking. In this video, Sid chats with Jess about her new Outdoor Channel show, her visit with Country Ham King Allan Benton, and the secrets to an unbeatable burger.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Well, Jess Pryles, welcome to Biscuits and Jam.
00:03I'm stoked to be here. I was wondering if we should call it scones and jam, but we'll go with biscuits and jam.
00:09Maybe for today. What did you say? Scones?
00:12Yeah, scones is just the American pronunciation.
00:16Oh, scones.
00:17Yeah, Brits and Australians call it scones.
00:19Oh, really?
00:20Yeah, truly.
00:22I've learned something already and we're only a minute in.
00:25There you go.
00:26Well, so speaking of Australia, you're the first person that I've ever interviewed from Australia, at least on this podcast.
00:35What an honor.
00:36So I'm very curious to hear about your life there.
00:40You know, what was it like growing up? I believe you grew up in Melbourne, right?
00:44Yeah, I feel like it's appropriate for an Australian expat to be on Southern Living, you know, since it is the Southern Hemisphere.
00:52So arguably the most South, right?
00:54Right. You're the most Southern person I may have ever interviewed.
00:58There you go. I grew up in Melbourne. Melbourne's a really cosmopolitan city, you know, about 5 million people, probably about three when I was growing up.
01:06Lots of museums, lots of culture.
01:09If Sydney is LA, Melbourne is more New York, is how we sort of describe it.
01:14But I was, you know, very urban, very disconnected from agriculture, kind of just a normal city life, you know, used to a lot of traffic and a lot of people and a lot of tight spaces.
01:28That's interesting that you kind of grew up in an urban environment.
01:33Just given your trajectory, your career, you seem to be certainly drawn a little bit more toward rural spaces.
01:43And, you know, barbecue kind of lends itself to that world a little more.
01:50Yeah, you definitely need a little more space than an urban balcony to really dig deep into barbecue.
01:56But, um, I think it was, it was actually visiting Texas for the first time that ignited my, my appreciation for sort of more space and outdoor activities.
02:07Um, obviously barbecue is a huge one of those, but there's so much, you know, the ranch lifestyle, live fire cooking, even learning to hunt when I moved here.
02:18Um, I mean, Austin now, I have been for nine years now.
02:22So, uh, I, it really, everything happened at the same time.
02:26This sort of developing a love for Texas and also developing meat knowledge.
02:32They happened at the same time as I was learning about barbecue.
02:36Yeah.
02:36So that, that's not, not like you had a base layer of learning all this in, in Australia.
02:41You were really new to it when you came to Texas.
02:44Yeah, very much.
02:44We didn't have, you know, I always loved eating meat, eating steak.
02:48But wasn't really sure how to cook them.
02:50Wasn't really sure what to choose at the grocery store.
02:52So I just left it to being a restaurant experience.
02:56And I think that there's so much more of a connection with certainly barbecue, but just outdoor live fire cooking here that it opens your world up.
03:06And, and it was just, it was this huge shift in what was available, um, compared to being, you know, in that really urban environment.
03:15And the other thing is Australia didn't have American style barbecue, um, re it's, it's huge there now wildly popular.
03:24I mean, obviously, right everywhere it's caught on like wildfire, but it just didn't exist.
03:29We have a pretty, pretty embarrassing culture of barbecue, to be honest with you.
03:34Um, shrimp on the barbie is an American thing.
03:37That was an ad that was just for America because Australians call them prawns.
03:41Um, but it was more like the most common thing was either a propane grill or a griddle.
03:48And you would buy the cheapest sausages at the grocery store and just kind of cremate them until they were slightly burnt.
03:54And that would pass as like a really standard Aussie community barbecue.
04:01So the first time that I ever tried smoked meats in the true Texas essence of it was visiting Austin, you know, 15, 16 years ago.
04:12And I, I just remember it was unlike anything that I'd ever tried before in terms of the flavors and the crunchy, crispy membrane on the bottom of these beef ribs and the big salt and pepper hit.
04:25And it, I mean, it absolutely was a life-changing meal because, you know, five years later I ended up moving across an ocean because of it.
04:33It, that's so interesting.
04:34I mean, um, what a discovery for you, you know, to be tasting that for the first time and, you know, especially for someone who loves food, I guess.
04:45And, and to experience that for the first time after, you know, growing up around, I don't know, whatever they were doing in Melbourne, but it wasn't this kind of cooking.
04:54I don't want to, I, I do say, Sid, I feel bad because I feel like I'm painting Melbourne in a really bad light.
04:59It, it has an incredibly vibrant food culture.
05:02It's got amazing Southeast Asian cuisine and modern Australian.
05:05It's just not barbecue.
05:07Right.
05:08Well, it is now as much more, right?
05:11Much more.
05:11Yes.
05:11Tell me a little bit about your, your family, your mom and dad.
05:15You know, I saw that you, um, dedicated your book, uh, hardcore carnivore to them.
05:22Um, tell me a little bit about them and, and what they, what they did for living.
05:27Yeah.
05:27My, my dad was a law professor, um, for many years and then ended up going into practice,
05:34um, and specializing in arbitration, which is, uh, basically where you're a judge, but between
05:40two private parties.
05:41And he was always big on promoting academia, um, and study.
05:47And, you know, I'd go visit him in his law professor office as a little kid and look up
05:50at the books and, and try my best to read them.
05:53Um, and my mom was a school teacher and that, you know, they're still married.
05:58They still live in the house that I got brought home from the hospital to in Melbourne.
06:02So it was a big deal to move away from that.
06:05Um, and I, I had a very normal, I'm extremely grateful to say it, but very traditional upbringing
06:15and couldn't have asked for better parents.
06:17And they, they were just very encouraging and supportive and, you know, there were, there
06:21were rules and structure, but you were encouraged to go and seek greater things.
06:29So who was doing the cooking Jess?
06:31I mean, you know, somewhere along the line, you must have had a spark of inspiration when
06:37it comes to food and cooking.
06:38So it's really interesting actually, and I haven't talked much about this before, but
06:43both of my parents, uh, first generation Australians and each of them are the children of the second
06:50world war immigrants.
06:51So my mom is the child of Holocaust survivors.
06:54My family's Jewish and my dad's parents immigrated before the war, but because things were getting
07:00really bad in Austria.
07:01Um, and, um, because of that, when my grandparents emigrated, they were refugees and they didn't
07:11really have an incredible, you know, repertoire of family history and recipes and ingredients.
07:18They barely brought anything with them.
07:19My mom couldn't cook at all.
07:21Dad jokes that she could barely boil water when they got married.
07:24And my grandmother would sort of try, she was an excellent baker, but not a great cook.
07:30Um, so dad did a lot of the cooking.
07:33I think when mom first got married, mom's an amazing cook now she's really come into
07:36her own, but I think it's just that idea of your history really, and your environment
07:43really impacting that.
07:44So, because, you know, my grandmother could never, and she's still with us as well.
07:48She's going to be a hundred next year, but she could never throw out anything that had
07:52mold on it.
07:53If you had a moldy, you know, bell pepper or something, she just cut that away.
07:57There was no wastage.
07:59That was really the approach to food there.
08:01And because we grew up eating kosher meat, which obviously I do not now, um, the, my exposure
08:08to cuts was also really limited too.
08:10So you just get a delivery from the kosher, kosher butchers every couple of weeks and you
08:16just got what you got because traditionally in kosher meat, they only use the four quarter
08:21of the animal.
08:22So you're also really limited to how much you've even tried.
08:25Um, and that was, that was, I think, uh, you know, had a lot to do with why I had such
08:30limited exposure to understanding meat cuts and how to cook it as a kid as well.
08:34Dad would man the gas barbecue from time to time, but everything would be well, well, well
08:41done.
08:42Yeah.
08:42Right.
08:42Which is not your approach these days.
08:45Very much not.
08:46Wow.
08:47That's fascinating.
08:48So you, you, you travel around and you're passing through Texas.
08:55Um, and this is, what'd you say?
08:5815, 16 years ago, you're traveling through Texas.
09:02Obviously you decide to stay.
09:04I'm sure this was over a period of time, but tell me about the, you know, that first visit,
09:10um, or those first couple of visits.
09:13And what was it that really, um, that you kind of fell for?
09:19So I, it was really interesting.
09:21So there were a couple of things that fell into place before I even got to Texas.
09:25One, my dad was actually an exchange student in 68 at SMU.
09:30And he'd always talked about his time in Texas with a lot of, so you had the Texas connection
09:36vaguely.
09:36Yes.
09:37There was a lot of fun memories for him there.
09:39And then for whatever reason, you know, Australians are really good at traveling.
09:43We're on an Island on the other side of the world.
09:46Um, we have a lot of annual leave and we're, if you need to go to even New Zealand, it's
09:51a four hour flight.
09:52So we're not afraid of getting in a plane and going places.
09:55So I would always, uh, my mom had taken us to the U S when I was younger, sort of, you
10:02know, the, the Hawaii Disneyland, um, obligatory trip, cause you know, that's the route from
10:07Australia and I'd always been fascinated with America, American culture.
10:12That was the time that we were just starting when I was sort of around 12, 13, 14, starting
10:16to get cable in Australia.
10:17And we would start to get, you know, the Nickelodeon shows, all the American TV shows
10:22more so than the British shows we'd always grew up with.
10:24And I was just fascinated by it.
10:25And then as I grew older, I became fascinated with the culture of the South in particular.
10:30And I remember buying a lonely planet guide cause this was pre-internet, um, uh, I remember
10:38those.
10:38Yeah.
10:39A lonely planet guide to, it was Louisiana and the deep South and the front cover of it just
10:44had all of these cypress trees dripping with Spanish moss.
10:48And I poured through that book like it was no one's business.
10:52There was something about, you know, I, what I did grow up with in my house was mom had
10:59fine China for good occasions and she had good silverware for good occasions.
11:03And the ones where you had to know which fork was which, and there were echoes of that in
11:09some of the big grand old Southern traditions.
11:13Um, and so that resonated with me as a bit more familiar than even a casual Australian upbringing
11:19because I am only second generation, right?
11:22So, um, and then it's just gorgeous, you know, the idea of those beautiful old houses and the
11:28trees.
11:29And I, I ended up going on this giant road trip through the entire South and just thinking
11:35this is, this is gorgeous and it's so interesting.
11:38And I would try and find skillets.
11:41Like I went on, I went on the hunt for my own vintage skillet and tried to teach myself
11:45sort of basic recipes, like understanding what, what's a biscuit, how is it different from
11:50a scone because that's the number one question I'm asked by my Australian followers still
11:54when, anytime I post about biscuits, what's the difference between them?
11:57There is a slight difference, but I always felt like a visitor and a traveler.
12:02And I got to Texas on one of these eventual trips and it was when Austin was absolutely
12:08in his heyday.
12:09I mean, everyone is moving here now.
12:12Um, it was a smaller city back then.
12:14It was much easier to get around.
12:15It was much more about small independent businesses than sort of big tech companies.
12:20And Texans have a unique approach in that if you love Texas as much as Texans do, you're
12:30a Texan.
12:31You don't need a family history.
12:34You don't need to show that you have roots here.
12:37Just, you know, wave a big Texas flag and, and, and love it as much as they do.
12:42And they'll welcome you with open arms.
12:44And it was a different, Texas is Southern, but not Southern.
12:48It's Southwestern, but not Southwestern.
12:50It's just Texas.
12:51So it was sort of like all the best of all of these wonderful feelings that, that I'd been
12:56exposed to, um, in learning and traveling through the South.
12:59So I adored Austin.
13:01I adored all the people I was meeting, all the Texans that I was meeting.
13:05Uh, and then as I kept visiting before I moved, I really, really dove into the culture.
13:12So barbecue was absolutely the main funnel, but then there were other things, as I mentioned,
13:17like I, I really wanted to learn to hunt because I thought baby deer were really cute, but I
13:22also ate a lot of meat.
13:23So I wanted to put my money where my mouth was.
13:25And it was also just a very traditional Texan pastime that I felt I really wanted to be
13:31a part of that, at least experience it to understand a little bit more about what's
13:36involved, why people do it, why it's so important to them.
13:40So I've done, you know, learned to two-step.
13:43I, it, it, it was nearly, it's, it's, it's a little bit, uh, stereotypical, but I feel like
13:50I've made a pretty decent honorary Texan now.
13:53Oh, I mean, for sure.
13:55Um, and I, I love that you just embraced it so much and thrown yourself into it.
14:01I think that's the only way to do it.
14:03Definitely.
14:04And, um, I've heard that, that, um, people that move to Texas, you know, when they, when
14:11you show that you really love it, um, that's kind of all that matters and, and, um, that
14:16you're happy to be there and that you want to be part of the community and they really
14:20do kind of, uh, roll out the welcome mat.
14:23They do.
14:23They do.
14:24And it's been, I think that's, you know, why there has been so much growth overall in Texas.
14:28Um, but it, it certainly made me feel like home.
14:33That's also how I grew my social media following at the same time.
14:36That was the golden age before we had the word influencer or creator where people were genuinely
14:42posting things to share their stories, um, not to try and curate a lifestyle.
14:49And I was having people follow along watching me fall in love with Texas and, and, and a
14:55lot of them were Texans.
14:56A lot of them were Australians back then kind of just following living vicariously, but a
15:01lot of them were Texans just nearly, nearly, you know, it was weird, nearly in a parental
15:05position of sort of watching like, you know, a child, not that I was, but a child take their
15:12first steps and, and learn about all that, you know, go swimming in the blue hole in
15:17Wimberley for the first time, or, you know, whatever, whatever, go to their first football
15:21game, which is, you know, a huge deal.
15:24So people, I can totally appreciate how people would like to see somebody new celebrate something
15:30that they hold so dearly.
15:31You know, speaking of learning things, um, you know, a lot of your journey has been about
15:38learning and, and particularly when it comes to cooking, I mean, learning the art of
15:42cooking and seasoning meat, the art of barbecue and the art of grilling.
15:45And, you know, I'm wondering if you had to pick one person who was sort of your biggest
15:52mentor when it came to all of that, who, who would that be?
15:56And what's their story?
15:58There was a gentleman who has passed away now, unfortunately.
16:02And, and I will tell you this, he would have made a great pirate or something because I have
16:09a lot of love for him on the one hand.
16:11And on the other hand, he just wasn't a great human being.
16:13Um, and I say that with context, his name was John Miller and he was the son of Bobby
16:20Miller of the famous, um, of the famous smokehouse in Taylor, Texas of Louis, Louis Miller barbecue,
16:27which was the grandfather.
16:28And John was the black sheep of the family.
16:31Um, and he certainly got involved in some stuff that wasn't great.
16:35Um, which luckily I was never on that side of, but what he was great at was barbecue.
16:41He had it in his blood.
16:44His sister, who unfortunately has passed away as well.
16:46Leanne, uh, Miller, who was an incredible photographer also opened a barbecue joint now
16:51called La Barbecue and his half brother Wayne continues on at Louis Miller.
16:56But way back in the day in Austin, when barbecue was just starting to be a thing, when I first
17:03came to Texas, the barbecue joints you could visit were all had many, many years under
17:08their belt.
17:09This explosion of new joints and new places on the list was really not happening that
17:15much yet.
17:16There were maybe two or three newish places in Austin and he was doing one of them and
17:22he was running a trailer and everything was just accessible back then.
17:27And he ended up teaching, um, Ali Clem, who's now the pit master at La Barbecue.
17:33She taught her, um, how to cook and he taught me as well.
17:38So I would stage overnight with him and watch him do an overnight cook on the pit.
17:45Or he'd let me, you know, let me cut the brisket, be there while he was seasoning.
17:49We, they call it staging in French, which is basically just, you know, hanging out and
17:54working at the restaurant without being paid.
17:56You're basically getting paid in knowledge.
17:58And that's who really taught me how to barbecue, um, and all of the things that he'd learned
18:03and all of the things that he'd picked up along the way.
18:06And it gave me a tremendous amount of knowledge.
18:09And, you know, sadly he had his own struggles and, and passed away just in the last couple of
18:15years, but I'll always be grateful to him for what he taught me.
18:20You know, you're talking about the kind of transformation of barbecue in, in Texas and
18:26in Austin, um, especially.
18:29And, um, we did a story, uh, last year, uh, about women in Texas barbecue, specifically
18:38you were in that story and there was a group of them, I think it was seven or so who were
18:44really doing amazing things in barbecue and really kind of leading, uh, the next generation
18:53of, of cooks and pit masters.
18:55And I'm curious what you see happening, um, these days when it comes to women in barbecue,
19:01does it feel like, you know, there really is kind of a, a, a shift happening or that there's
19:07a lot of, you know, momentum, uh, when it comes to that.
19:11It does.
19:11I, it was a big, big honor to be featured in that article.
19:14Cause I've been a reader for such a long time.
19:16It was, it was a little bit giddy when I, uh, when I first got told I'd be a part of
19:20it.
19:20So there are a lot of women making their way in some unsung in Texas barbecue, which is
19:27what was so valuable about that article.
19:29Not everyone has a big social media profile, um, to promote themselves.
19:33A lot of them are just back a house, um, pit masters themselves, just going in and doing
19:39their jobs.
19:41And it's not an easy job.
19:43It's, it's very physically demanding to be a pit master, at least in Texas style barbecue.
19:49I mean, you know, I keep saying Texas style, Texas style there, there is a difference just
19:53as in the same as in at Pat Martin will tell you West Tennessee whole hog.
19:57It's not that physically easy to flip an entire hog in a hog pit.
20:01You know, it's not that easy to continually open up these thousand gallon steel pits and
20:07move, you know, dozens of briskets around on your own.
20:12So I, I, I definitely think we are seeing more and more women come into it and just for
20:19the right reasons, just because they love it, not because they're trying to fly the flag
20:24of I'm a woman and I can do it too.
20:26It's that's certainly never been the case for me.
20:28It's more coming from such a genuine earnest place.
20:32You know, Chuck, who was also profiled in the story has Barb's BQ in Lockhart.
20:37She's become an overnight success and she has an all female team, which is really impressive.
20:43So I think that there's a lot of room there.
20:46And I also think that on a domestic level, you know, pellet grills opened up the door for
20:50a lot of women who we revere our grandmothers and our moms for being an amazing cooks and
20:55we want to collect their, their cookbooks and, you know, their old scribbled, well-worn,
21:00well-loved cookbooks.
21:02But we've automatically just relegated outdoor duties to dads and brothers.
21:08And I think the biggest part about that was the intimidation of the actual live fire part
21:15of it, you know, we may have gone to home ec while the boys went to scouts or learned
21:20to, to light fires.
21:22So when you bring in a pellet grill where you can literally just flick a switch and you're
21:28smoking, we've seen a huge uptick in, in more women being confident about cooking their
21:34signature, signature dishes just on a smoker.
21:37Um, and you know, I'm, I'm sure anyone could learn to light a fire.
21:41It's, it's not rocket science.
21:43Even the cavemen could do it.
21:44Right.
21:45Um, but I love that it's just making it more accessible as a flavor profile, uh, and as
21:51a cooking method.
21:52Well, Jess, I want to talk about your new show a little bit.
21:55You've got a new TV show coming out and, um, it's on the outdoor channel.
22:01It is.
22:02Tell me a little bit about the name and the premise and, uh, what it's all about.
22:08Absolutely.
22:09I'm so excited.
22:10It's, it, this has been a long time coming.
22:12We filmed last year, uh, and we're, we're actually on the road filming season two already.
22:18Uh, but the show premieres on September 23rd on the outdoor channel at nine 30 Eastern,
22:23and it is called hardcore carnivore.
22:26And any of your listeners who are familiar with me already, or that brand, um, that's
22:31actually the name of the brand that I founded, uh, about a year after I moved to Texas, we
22:36have seasonings and tools, uh, for, for grilling and live fire cooking that I, I use in my own
22:42home and my own kitchens.
22:43Um, and it just made a lot of sense, you know, ironically, hardcore carnivore was named prior
22:51to the, the rise in popularity of the carnivore diet.
22:55So I do want to clarify, it is not a diet.
22:57It is just a really fun little name for anyone who loves eating meat.
23:02And so when I got approached to do the show, we talked about how we can really come full
23:08circle and encompass all aspects of meat eating.
23:11Um, because one of my, one of the parts of my story is after sort of getting involved
23:17in barbecue, learning as much as I could and, and feeling that I was pretty on top of it.
23:22Um, I got more curious about other parts of it and, and the meat itself so much so that
23:28I ended up going back and doing a graduate certificate at Iowa state university in meat
23:33science.
23:35So when we were doing the show, we wanted to look at all aspects, how meat is raised,
23:41how meat is hunted.
23:43Um, we want to make it really fun and a fun thing to watch, uh, not just sort of, you
23:48know, you're not just going to sit there and watch me stand there in a lab coat.
23:51We've got recipes and cooking in every episode as well.
23:54And it's the full spectrum, the sort of round the world of, of all things meat.
24:00The other thing that was important to me was really to show, as I said, that commercial
24:05aspect of meat.
24:06Uh, a lot of hunters that I know, most hunters in Texas, a lot of hunters through the South
24:13will not exclusively live on venison or their game.
24:18They will often say, you know, Hey, my, my death row meal would be a ribeye if I could.
24:23And so I think that a realistic approach is to celebrate game and celebrate, you know,
24:28domesticated meats like beef and, and pork and lamb and chicken, all of it.
24:32There's some crossover there, certainly when it comes to cooking and, um, what you're going
24:37to do with that meat.
24:38You know, I saw the other day that you had been in, um, I think it's Madisonville, Tennessee,
24:45um, visiting Allen Benton and, uh, and Benton's bacon and the smokehouse there.
24:52Um, tell me a little bit about that experience and, uh, what that was like, what that has to
24:58do with the show.
24:59That, well, that was season two.
25:01So we are, we are on the road, as I mentioned, doing season two and part of that, again, just
25:07that full world of things are also other people who are producing meat really well.
25:12And Benton's, Benton's came up very early for me, especially being a Southern living reader.
25:18You hear about it a lot about this sort of legendary ham.
25:22And I had to learn what country ham was when I moved here.
25:24Um, you know, I knew what city house, city ham was from Waffle House menus.
25:30It's a joke.
25:32Um, but I wasn't quite sure what country ham was.
25:35I'm like, oh, okay.
25:35You mean like a Monte Berico, but country.
25:38Okay.
25:39That makes sense.
25:40So, um, I, I'd just long heard about Benton's and how they've been doing things in a really
25:47old style to the point where some of their practices are grandfathered in by the USDA, because
25:52you certainly wouldn't be allowed to use wooden racks like you do, like they are still doing
25:57today.
25:58Um, and Alan is, uh, he is a curing nerd.
26:03He, you know, put his whole life and career on the line to make this bacon.
26:08He's just handed off to his son, Daryl.
26:10So it was incredible to meet them and to learn about their process.
26:14Um, I got to have their mom, Sharon's famous biscuits and get a masterclass there.
26:20It was an incredible trip, honestly, really, you know, what a great place to, to go visit
26:25and great and a great time to be there, you know, when they have this kind of transition
26:29happening, um, being passed from, you know, father to son.
26:34And, um, so I look forward to seeing that episode when that comes around.
26:38Um, I mean, Jess, you know, as someone who knows as much as you do and being a meat science
26:46graduate now, um, I'm wondering, you know, if you're feel like you're learning a lot,
26:52you must be even now, um, just going to all these places.
26:57I bet every time you film a new episode, every time you talk to somebody else, you're probably
27:01learning, um, something else about, about cooking meat and the way different ways you
27:08can do it.
27:09Um, is that the case?
27:10Definitely, uh, definitely.
27:13I'm, I think that the reason I've, you know, this has been my job for more than 15 years
27:17now, and I'm constantly learning and constantly sort of going down new avenues of, of different
27:22things that you can learn about.
27:24And, you know, a big part of it is getting to explore.
27:30It's the same thing.
27:31I think that people love about traveling.
27:33Just, you think, you know, everything about a grocery store or a market, and then you go
27:38overseas and see it in another country and it sort of blows your mind or how people cook
27:42or how they use ingredients.
27:44And that's the same.
27:48It's the same attitude that we have on the show.
27:50And, you know, I'm, my area of expertise lies in the meat and the cooking, but I didn't
27:57grow up on a ranch.
27:58I don't really have huge exposure to it.
28:02So when we go and visit, uh, animal producers as well, uh, in the first episode, we were at
28:07a bison farm or bison ranch and a goat farm.
28:11Um, and to understand what goes into breeding the animal, growing it, keeping it healthy,
28:18that there's so much there that there's just a constant learning process.
28:23Um, and even, even in hunting as well, my experience was limited to hunting in Texas,
28:29which is, you know, dove and whitetail and maybe some Turkey.
28:32And to be able to go with friends that I trust to show me, um, other states, other hunting
28:40terrains, other ways to get the meat.
28:42And then it all comes back together to when we're actually cutting up that animal and processing
28:47it, that's when it becomes familiar.
28:50And I can, I can share with my friend who has shared me all, all of her knowledge.
28:55I can let her know, well, Hey, you know, I, you can also do this to it when you're cleaning
28:59it and this is actually a great steak and this is how you should cook it.
29:03So it's very fulfilling.
29:04It's very fun to do.
29:06We have a great crew, so it's just fun.
29:09We're making jokes the whole time.
29:10And what I really hope is that it's an enjoyable watch for people, but that there's also some
29:16really fun little nuggets and interesting points of conversation and topics that people
29:21can glean from the shows as well.
29:23Real takeaways.
29:24Yeah.
29:24Yeah.
29:25You're going a hundred miles an hour all the time.
29:27I mean, you've got the TV show.
29:29You're doing events, you're running a spice business.
29:34What do you do to take a break?
29:36There's, well, I was going to tell you there's no such thing as a break, but I did just get
29:39back from a vacation last week, which was the first just vacation vacation I've taken
29:44in a very long time.
29:45But I don't think when you're an entrepreneur that you ever truly switch off and I love what
29:51I do and that helps tremendously.
29:54You know, I was just in Nashville earlier this week with Kingsford, who I've got an amazing
29:59partnership with.
30:00And even that is, you know, I think I still think it's incredible that someone who was
30:06an immigrant less than a decade ago can come across and be working with one of the most
30:10recognized brands in American fuel as an ambassador for them, you know, or working with
30:16browning when we do hunting things and as someone who's effectively a new hunter as well.
30:24And so, yeah, it's a lot of work, but I don't think I'd have it any other way.
30:30Yeah, I get that impression.
30:33All right.
30:34Well, I want to talk about recipes.
30:35Um, so, you know, we did a survey recently with our readers.
30:40We're always asking them things, um, about what's on their mind, um, what they like to
30:45cook, that sort of thing.
30:46And we recently were talking about grilling and asked about their favorite thing to grill.
30:52And of course, you know, it's no surprise that they said hamburgers.
30:57I mean, that's what most people are grilling probably more often than anything else.
31:04What is your go-to technique for a really good hamburger?
31:08It starts with the raw product.
31:11Surprise, surprise.
31:12Uh, if you can grind your own, um, great.
31:16I don't think that that's a make or break.
31:18I don't think everyone needs to run out and get a meat grinder, but I definitely would always
31:22recommend buying freshly ground beef rather than the stuff that comes in the chubs.
31:30Um, it, it, it has a different texture.
31:32It can often have a different water holding capacity.
31:36And if you can experiment with the different muscles as well.
31:39So some grocery stores, like the ones we have here in Texas will specify, is it chuck?
31:45Is it sirloin?
31:46You want to look at that fat percentage as well.
31:48I'm looking for at least 80, 20, uh, 80, 80% lean, 20% fat, which is pretty conservative
31:55by restaurant standards.
31:57We think of that as a really high fat percentage for us as consumers, but realistically, the
32:03most luxurious sort of steakhouse burger might even be up in the, the 70, 30, um, brackets.
32:10Yeah, very much so.
32:12In fact, Billy Durney, who runs hometown barbecue, uh, in Brooklyn, he once brought some Pat
32:18Lafreda burgers to Memphis in May where we were cooking together and they were practically
32:23white.
32:24Cause I think it was a 60, 40, but they were the most luscious, you know, flavorful, juicy
32:32burgers you can imagine.
32:33So definitely an 80, 20 be really loose.
32:36I'd be really loose with how I form the patty.
32:39You don't want to overwork the meat fibers.
32:41Um, it can make it tougher.
32:44I saw something from Heston Blumenthal once where he actually tries to capture the muscle
32:49fibers as they're extruded from the grinder and then lay everything in the same direction
32:55until it's rough, roughly the circumference of a patty and then cut that way because technically
33:00that way you're then biting in between the strands, which is less resistant than biting
33:06through the strands.
33:07So you can get real technical about this if you want to science coming through.
33:11Yeah.
33:11This is more chef nerd stuff, but I think it all comes together.
33:15It's all, it's all curious people.
33:17So I handle it as least as possible and I put nothing in it until I start cooking it.
33:23Uh, the idea of adding anything else when mom used to make us burgers, when I was little,
33:28she would put in parsley, garlic, salt, an egg.
33:32And I sort of had to explain to her as I grew up, you're making, you're making a meatball,
33:37you're making rissoles.
33:39You're not making a burger.
33:40If you're putting all those additives into it, the meat can absolutely hold itself together.
33:44So I seasoned once it's on the grill or the griddle.
33:47Um, obviously I, I like to use my own seasoning, the hardcore carnival black.
33:52And I like, if I'm doing a charcoal grill, there's two different things.
33:57So in my cookbook, I made a point to have two different burgers, the smash burger.
34:03And then the steakhouse burger, because you're either someone who likes a really chunky patty,
34:09which is what I would call a steakhouse burger, or you like a thin crispy edged burger, which
34:15is that traditional smash burger.
34:17And they're going to have two completely different techniques.
34:19So for the chunkier, thicker burgers, I'd say anything over, over, you know, a half pound
34:26or more, a third of a pound, um, I would set up my grill to have some scattered coals in
34:32the bottom so that that way you're getting direct heat, but you're not going to get any
34:37flare ups because those burgers, especially with that 80, 20 plus is going to drip down onto
34:41the coals.
34:43And for burgers, I just leave them for a couple of minutes each side.
34:46Cause you do want to make sure that that ground beef is cooked all the way through.
34:49Whereas for steaks, I am a huge fan of constantly flipping it over really high heat.
34:55But if you do love that really fast food style smash burger, a griddle is absolutely the way
35:00to go.
35:01Um, or a skillet, I guess, cast on a skillet.
35:04Yeah.
35:04Yeah.
35:04Very much.
35:05You need that, that smooth metal surface.
35:07Uh, you need to make a lot of contact, really smash that meat down.
35:11And that's how you get all those lacy edges.
35:13This makes me want to make a burger tonight.
35:17I will say the other thing that's a must Sid is I have to buy my American cheese freshly
35:22sliced from the deli.
35:24It is a game changer compared to the, the plastic wrap stuff.
35:28Absolutely.
35:29Yeah.
35:30And, and getting your meat from the, from the meat counter.
35:33Yes.
35:33From the meat counter or, or if you have a store that grinds fresh in store and has it
35:38on the shelf, um, that'll, that'll work as well.
35:41So Jess, you're someone who cooks on social media a lot.
35:45You're always doing kind of, you know, demos and, and giving people some insight into what
35:50you're doing on Tik TOK and Instagram.
35:51And I'm wondering if there is a recipe that sort of surprised you with the reception it
35:59got, you know, something that maybe became a runaway hit or that really generated a lot
36:05of interest.
36:05Oh gosh.
36:07You know, I think the recipes that do the best are always the most approachable.
36:14I think I went through a stage of trying to sort of prove, I mean, I'm not a trained chef.
36:19I'm just someone who loves to eat and loves to cook.
36:23And I went through a stage of trying to prove to myself that I could, you know, attempt all
36:27these fancy sauces and, and, uh, presentation styles and, and that's not what a lot of folks
36:34are looking for.
36:35So the best success has been with the most approachable.
36:39Some of them are embarrassingly easy.
36:41I must tell you, we did a recipe once that was bacon wrapped pickles that then went into
36:47the smoker and that ended up with millions of views.
36:50Um, but who doesn't love bacon?
36:52Right.
36:53Um, and nowadays it's the videos that I do that are just more meat info.
36:58So showing people how to butcher cuts or explaining, Hey, choose this steak over this steak.
37:03And here's why I think anything that gives people a sense of value or empowerment in understanding
37:09what their choices are at the meat counter, which is exactly where I came from.
37:13Like that, that's a part, I suppose I don't talk about enough that while I did fall in love
37:18with barbecue and learn a lot about it at the same time, when you learn about the raw product
37:23and the raw brisket and, and understanding how to trim brisket and all of that, you start
37:28learning about meat in general, buying it in its raw form.
37:32And I was so fascinated to sort of unlock all of these things, demystify all of these rumors
37:41and, and misconceptions that I had about buying meat and the meat industry, that that's what
37:48I started sharing with people way back when, and it just really resonates.
37:51I think a lot of folks are skeptical.
37:54They don't feel confident in what they're looking at.
37:57They're not really sure if they can trust the grocery store, the meat company.
38:01And so, you know, you get rumors about what's in hot dogs and, and what might actually be
38:06in ground beef.
38:07Spoiler alert, it's beef.
38:08Um, so those are the things that I really enjoy sharing with people.
38:14I think it's important for people to feel confident in their own choices when they buy.
38:19There's really nothing more iconic when it comes to Texas barbecue than brisket.
38:25And, but it's also a notoriously challenging, uh, thing to cook well.
38:31Um, it's hard to get it right.
38:33It takes a lot of practice, but when you do, there's nothing better.
38:37Do you feel like you've kind of cracked the code on that and, um, or is it, is it sort
38:43of a constant process of experimentation?
38:46I will say, you know, the folks who work as pit masters have the advantage of repetition,
38:52which makes anybody an incredible, an incredible must maestro in at their game, because there's
39:01always going to be a variable in that the animal, it's not a widget, it's a natural product.
39:06The size of the brisket is going to vary.
39:09Um, the, the meat quality, the, the grading, the tenderness, the toughness.
39:15And until you just get dozens of hours under your belt of brisket after brisket, after brisket,
39:22and I'm not talking about dozens of hours in terms of one brisket cook.
39:25I mean, you know, really putting in the time at a smoker, cooking 32 briskets at a time,
39:31getting to feel them all.
39:33That's why it's such a, you know, you hear the word craft barbecue bandied around a lot
39:37because no two were going to be ready at the same time.
39:40Um, and a lot of modern pit masters are taught to feel for it.
39:44So I'm definitely very confident with my brisket recipe and advising, advising people
39:48how to cook a brisket, but there will absolutely be things that I will still learn along the
39:52way too.
39:53Could you see yourself opening a barbecue place someday?
39:56Man, I don't, I don't know.
39:58I have an enormous amount of respect for the people who do, uh, cause it is, it is a labor
40:04of love.
40:04And in fact, we've started to see, it's quite interesting in the, just in the past few months,
40:10a few places close that have been around for a long time, um, that I think are victim to
40:16so many people just getting into the industry.
40:19It's incredibly tough work.
40:21It's incredibly tough to turn a profit.
40:23You lose so much in the meat itself.
40:25It's expensive.
40:27I can't say that it's jumped out at me.
40:29I'd love to have a luxury steakhouse one day where I can invite all my friends and give
40:33them a great cold gin martini and a lovely selection of steaks.
40:37That would be really fun.
40:38Um, well, let me know when you open that.
40:40Okay.
40:40Absolutely.
40:41You'll, you'll be on our guest invite.
40:43Jess, you know, I'm someone who loves to fry a turkey and, uh, particularly at Thanksgiving,
40:49it's kind of a tradition in our family.
40:52And I noticed that you have a fried turkey seasoning as one of your, as one of your seasonings.
40:59Um, tell me about that one and, and what you like about it.
41:02And should I give it a try this year?
41:04Absolutely.
41:05I will get you taken care of.
41:07That's our seasonal flavor.
41:08So that was our, our first and only flavor that rotates in and out just for the holidays.
41:12And I started to think about the folks who do fry turkeys and how popular that's gotten.
41:17And a lot of the time, if you apply traditional seasoning to it, especially a seasoning that's
41:23got a lot of sugar or a lot of dark red color in it, you'll often get that nearly looks like
41:28a soot appearance on the outside of the turkey.
41:30Cause it's really important to make sure the turkey's properly cooked.
41:33It needs to stay in the oil for a while.
41:35And so I thought about developing a seasoning that had all of the holiday flavors.
41:42So sage and garlic.
41:44And of course I'm in Texas.
41:45So we put a little bit of jalapeno powder in there as well.
41:48Oh, I like the sound of that.
41:49And then the main thing I did was engineer it.
41:53The color in the bottle is not very, it's sort of like a light golden sand color.
42:00So the idea is it can turn a deep golden when it fries rather than getting really dark and
42:05burnt.
42:06And I like to apply it to the turkey beforehand.
42:08And then as soon as it comes out of the oil, I give it a light dusting so that you get different
42:14dimensions to the freshness of the spice when it's raw compared to cooked.
42:18So we'll, we'll definitely have to get you a bottle, Sid.
42:21But it's not a replacement for a salt or like you don't put this on overnight and leave
42:27it overnight.
42:27It's more, you put it on kind of right before it goes in.
42:30Yeah.
42:30I mean, I always welcome people to experiment with what they prefer.
42:34I've always applied it right before it's gone in or, or, you know, let it sat for 15
42:38minutes just to adhere.
42:40Uh, especially if you're going to be brining a turkey to apply a seasoning and then leave
42:44it overnight, you really risk doubling down on the salt.
42:48And if you're not buying a sort of heritage bird, that's fresh and you're buying one from,
42:53from the grocery store, a lot of them these days are what we call enhanced poultry.
42:58So they are already have a solution injected into them.
43:03Uh, that's basically a pre-brine and unfortunately it's got a really bad rap, uh, with a lot of
43:08people, they think, Oh, it's water weight to increase it.
43:11And pork ribs often have the same thing, um, with, with, uh, added moisture or enhanced
43:17pork ribs.
43:18They'll sometimes add some flavor into the turkey at the end of the year, but it was all coming
43:22from a place where the industry needed to respond to poor customer experience.
43:26I mean, we all know that turkey is notoriously dry if you overcook it.
43:32And so the turkey industry and the pork industry wanted to take steps that helped make it even
43:38easier for someone not to mess up in their own kitchen.
43:40And that's where the idea of that enhanced, um, injected bird comes from.
43:46And so if you do buy one, it is always clearly labeled on the label.
43:50It is not a bad thing.
43:51It just means you don't have to brine it because it's already had some work done to it because
43:56the whole idea of brining of course, is just to add an additional moisture to make up for
44:00the moisture that's lost during cooking so that it should be as juicy as when you started
44:05off.
44:06And, uh, you want to be careful not to double down too much if you do have an enhanced
44:10bird, cause you don't want to over salt it.
44:13Interesting.
44:14So read the label.
44:15Definitely.
44:15Yeah.
44:16That helps.
44:16Well, Jess, I just have one more question for you.
44:19Um, you grew up in Australia, um, but you've lived in Texas for an awfully long time now.
44:26So I feel like I can, I can ask this question.
44:28Uh, what does it mean to you to be a Texan?
44:31Belonging to a group of people who are fiercely proud of their old heritage and their new heritage
44:38as it evolves, welcoming folks to the state who feel the same way about it as they do.
44:46Cause I have since welcomed other people here.
44:48If you are really good at Google searching, there is a video of me when I moved to Texas.
44:55I don't know how we got to do this, but at the time, um, chief justice Willett in the Texas
45:02Supreme court, who's now gone on to bigger and better things.
45:05He agreed to swear me in, in the Texas state Capitol as an honorary Texan.
45:13And we created this oath.
45:15I mean, it's, it's very unofficial, but it's, it is also at the same time, somewhat official.
45:20Uh, and the oaths where swore allegiance to the great state of Texas, it's hospitality and
45:27traditions like football to step in, um, and, you know, and barbecue.
45:33But all of those, I think, uh, related to hospitality and, and, uh, and a warmth that
45:39Texans have.
45:40That's great.
45:41Well, I love that.
45:42And I'm going to seek that out.
45:43I would love to, I would love to see that.
45:46It sounds like it's something that should be made official for sure.
45:49Definitely.
45:50Hey, if they want to give me a flag that's been flying over the Capitol, I certainly won't
45:53say no.
45:54Well, Jess Prowse, congrats on the new show and, um, look forward to seeing you in Birmingham
46:00soon and for the food plus fire event, which is going to be great.
46:05Um, can't wait to have you here.
46:08And, uh, thanks so much for being on biscuits and jam.
46:10You bet.
46:11I'm really excited to come out and meet everyone.
46:13We'll see you soon.
46:14Cheers.
46:15Cheers.
46:17Cheers.
46:17Cheers.
46:19Cheers.