- 5/5/2025
Australian journalist Yalda Hakim from Sky News interviewed Pakistan's Defence Minister Khawaja Asif on April 24. She expressed her thoughts about it on India Today on Monday. Hakim, recalling the interview, said that she was stunned when Asif admitted that Pakistan had earlier supported terrorist organisations, as she didn't expect this.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination news,
00:05newsmakers talking points tonight. The big talking point is coming from a special interview that we
00:11have that has already gone viral. We'll tell you more in a moment on that. Why is Yalda Hakim in
00:20the news? Her interview coming up in a moment. But first, we'll bring you the nine headlines at nine
00:27tonight. The government steps up civil defence mock drills across India on the 7th of May.
00:37Operationalisations of air raid warning sirens, training of civilians and blackout measures to
00:42be prepped as the government plans kinetic action. Prime Minister Modi holds key security meetings.
00:51NSA Doval, Defence Secretary, Home Secretary, meet the Prime Minister. Kashmir ground situation
00:57next course of action is discussed. India's water strike on Pakistan. India initiates dam
01:06operations, accelerates six hydropower projects following the India's Water Treaty suspension.
01:15India today speaks to a Lushkar proxy. Valley terror agent unmasked. Pakistan reveals how Pakistan
01:22brainwashes and radicalises Kashmiri youth. War of words over a Congress leader's Raphael
01:32Nimbu Mirchi remark. UP Congress Chief Ajay Rai says, Raphaels remain unused. BJP hits out,
01:38says Congress netas are making headlines in Pakistan.
01:41Supreme Court defers the plea challenging the Wakf Amendment Act for hearing now on May 15th by the next
01:52Chief Justice of India, Gawai. A three-judge panel submits report to Chief Justice of India,
02:01Sanjeev Khanna in the Justice Yashwan Burma Kashrao case. Heat on the judge after discovery of Kash at his
02:08residence in Delhi during an accidental fire in March.
02:16Russian President Vladimir Putin to visit India tells Prime Minister Pahal Gham,
02:23attackers must be brought to justice.
02:28Hollywood in turmoil as Donald Trump says tariffs will be imposed on all films produced outside America.
02:35Trump orders a hundred percent tariff on these movies since countries are stealing filmmaking skills
02:41from America. Indian filmmakers say tax will threaten Indian cinema's bottom lines.
02:47But the big story that we are breaking this evening, the centre has now asked all states to hold civil defence drills
03:04on 7th of May. Drills will include air raid sirens, blackout measures, civilian students to be trained in civil defence,
03:12camouflage of vital plants, evacuation rehearsal plan, all of this suggesting that the government is putting
03:19civil defence on high alert ahead of potential escalation and kinetic action against Pakistan.
03:28That's the big story that's breaking at this moment. I want to go straight to our defence correspondent
03:35who is at the moment in Srinagar. Shivani Sharma now joins us. Shivani, give us a sense of what you're picking up
03:43in terms of these mock drills that the government is holding, all of this coming on the background
03:48of meetings that the Prime Minister has been holding with the various service chiefs.
03:52Defence Secretary also called in today. Is all of this being seen as a gradual,
03:57calibrated escalation of pressure or preparation for a potential kinetic action
04:02any time in the near future?
04:07Certainly, Rajdeep, as we see Prime Minister Narendra Modi personally monitoring and meeting the service chiefs,
04:13the CDS, the Raksha Mantri and deliberations are going on. On the other hand, we also see MHA is now,
04:21has given out this advisory to conduct a mock drill on 7th of May for several states and what we are picking from the sources,
04:29Rajdeep, these states are the states which are the border states and Jammu and Kashmir, Rajasthan, Delhi can be one of those states
04:37and Gujarat also for that matter. So all these states have to conduct these drills where the citizens will be sensitised
04:44and made aware about the SOPs of a war-like situation, how to keep themselves safe in a complete blackout situation
04:52or how to see the sirens and get aware when the war-like situation arises. So this is an advisory that has been given out
05:01by the MHA for 7th of May. This means that India is certainly preparing for a long-term action
05:08and it wants the citizens to also understand the seriousness and the SOPs that have been lined up for such a situation
05:16if the tension escalates and action takes place.
05:20Interesting. Daeshivani joining us with those details at the moment about the potential of preparing citizens also
05:29for any kinetic action and any retaliation that may follow from that 7th of May is the date which has been put
05:36as far as putting in place those civil defence measures. I also want to turn to the other story that's breaking at the moment.
05:43The UN Secretary-General has now made a statement saying he hopes that a military confrontation will be avoided.
05:51The UN Secretary-General has spoken saying it's time for maximum restraint.
05:58Military solution is no solution. We'll support any initiative on de-escalation.
06:03All of this taking place against the backdrop of a UN Security Council meeting that's likely to take place this evening.
06:10First, listen in to what Antonio Guterres said a short while ago.
06:29Tensions between India and Pakistan are at their highest in years.
06:35I deeply respect and I am profoundly grateful to the government of people of both countries
06:43and their significant contributions to the work of the United Nations, not least UN peacekeeping.
06:50And so it pains me to see relations reaching a boiling point.
06:54I understand the raw feelings following the awful terror attack in Bahal Gan on 22 April.
07:03I once again strongly condemn that attack and extend my condolences to the families of the victims.
07:10Targeting civilians is unacceptable and those responsible must be brought to justice through credible lawful means.
07:18It is also essential, especially at this critical hour, to avoid a military confrontation that could easily spin out of control.
07:29Now is the time for maximum restraint and stepping back from the brink.
07:35That has been my message in my ongoing outreach with both countries.
07:39Make no mistake, a military solution is no solution.
07:45And I offer my good offices to both governments in the service of peace.
07:50The United Nations stands ready to support any initiative that promotes de-escalation, diplomacy and the renewed commitment to peace.
07:59Joining me now is our Diplomatic Affairs Senator Geeta Mohan joins us.
08:04Geeta Mohan, Geeta those statements by Guterres coming ahead of a Security Council meeting later this evening.
08:10Is this the United Nations in its familiar style trying to play the role of a neutral umpire,
08:15even though as we've seen in Israel and in Ukraine, the United Nations has been a complete failure.
08:21So, how do you interpret the remarks being made by Guterres at this moment?
08:27Well, Rajdeep, we do know that the United Nations in many ways than one is a toothless tiger when it comes to implementation of the international rules, norms and laws.
08:40Having said that, the United Nations Security Council is indeed meeting around 3 p.m. New York time, which should be around 12.30 a.m. here in India.
08:50This is at the behest of Pakistan, given that Pakistan is a non-permanent member of the Security Council at this point in time,
08:58the two-year tenure that each country serves as a non-permanent member, the ten countries.
09:03And Pakistan is in the room, and therefore they've called for the meeting as an emergency meeting on the situation at the border between India and Pakistan.
09:13Having said that, while we see the United Nations Secretary General not the first time,
09:18this is probably the second or the third time that he's not just offering the good offices of the United Nations,
09:24but also saying that military solution is no solution, that they should be looking at a diplomatic route.
09:31Even as that is happening, we're looking at India sounding out an alarm, so to say, to various states, saying that they should be prepared.
09:41So expect something from India, no other than the Prime Minister himself, Rajdeep, and then the Defence Minister said that there is going to be a response very soon.
09:51So expect something from India. This time around, India has made it very clear to the international community that if they really want solution to the crisis between India and Pakistan,
10:02they need to reign in Pakistan rather than asking India not to retaliate.
10:05Gita Mohan, joining us with those details ahead of that big Security Council meeting, appreciate you joining us now.
10:13Also today, Pakistan's National Assembly met to discuss the standoff with India, and continues to deny its role in the Pahlkam terror attack.
10:21But only in a recent interview to Sky News, the country's Defence Minister, Khwaja Asif, admitted Pakistan's role in sponsoring terror over the decade.
10:32That interview has created a stir and once again exposed Pakistan continuing to sponsor and finance terror.
10:39In a moment, I'll be joined by the journalist who did that interview for Sky News. But first, take a look at this report.
10:49Two weeks after the horrific terror attack in Pahlkam that killed 26 people, Pakistan remains defiant.
10:56The people that all know what happened, people know what happened, they don't know what happened, they don't know what happened.
11:06They don't know what happened. They don't know what happened.
11:07And Pakistan has said that we are independent, we are ready to do this inquiry and Pakistan's ready.
11:13Pakistan's refusal to crack down on terror is nothing new.
11:19It has time and again plotted and executed terror attacks
11:26as part of its policy to bleed India with a thousand cuts.
11:32From the 1993 Mumbai blasts to 2611 terror attack,
11:37Islamabad has sheltered terrorists despite clinching evidence shared by India.
11:43Pakistan even harbored 9-11 mastermind Osama bin Laden
11:49who was taken out by American forces in an operation in Abbottabad in 2011.
11:59What is more troubling is the fact that Islamabad, when caught on the back foot,
12:04even seeks to justify terrorism as its defence minister, Khwaja Asif,
12:09recently did in an interview to Sky News.
12:13We have been doing this dirty work for the United States for about three decades,
12:19you know, and West, including Britain.
12:23That was a mistake and we suffered for that.
12:27Khwaja Asif's confession on dirty work went viral, embarrassing Islamabad.
12:32The whole world has heard Pakistan's defence minister, Khwaja Asif,
12:40admitting and confessing Pakistan's history of supporting,
12:45training and funding terrorist organisations in a recent television interview.
12:50This open confession surprises no one
12:53and exposes Pakistan as a rogue state fueling global terrorism and destabilising the region.
13:00But none of this stopped Islamabad from shielding LAT's resistance front,
13:08which had initially claimed responsibility for the Pehlgaam terror attack
13:12by getting the terror outfit's name omitted from a UN resolution.
13:16It is now up to the world to isolate Pakistan till the time they stop using terror as a state policy.
13:25With Geeta Mohan, Euro Report, India Today.
13:28Pakistan's worst-kept secret of sponsoring terror was exposed in an interview
13:36that Yalda Hakim, lead world news presenter at Sky News,
13:41did with Pakistan's defence minister, Khwaja Asif.
13:44I am joined by Yalda.
13:46I appreciate your joining us here.
13:48Yalda, they're from London.
13:49Thank you very much.
13:50The horrific Baisaran terror attack exposing Pakistan's role once again
13:55in fomenting, sponsoring terror against India, especially in the Kashmir Valley.
14:00It's been one of the world's worst-kept secrets admitted on camera
14:03by Pakistan's defence minister in a recent interview to you, Yalda.
14:09In that interview, the defence minister going on camera,
14:13saying yes, Pakistan did sponsor finance terror over the years.
14:17His exact statement is, we've been doing this dirty work for the United States
14:21for about three decades in the West, including Britain,
14:24in response to your question about Pakistan's long history of backing,
14:27supporting, training, funding terror groups.
14:30How do you look at, what was your first response when you heard
14:34the defence minister of a country of Pakistan make that candid admission to you?
14:41Well, Rajdeep, thank you so much for having me on your programme.
14:45As you say, I mean, it is something that has been more or less
14:50a sort of a well-known and well-documented and yet a situation
14:57where over the decades Pakistan has never really admitted it publicly
15:03in different points and at different times, you know,
15:06whether it was General Parvez Musharraf or Benazir Bhutto
15:10or different ISI chiefs who have come out at different intervals
15:14in Pakistan's history and felt the need to make an admission
15:18and accept that perhaps they do fund and back terror groups
15:23and use them as proxies.
15:25Still, I didn't expect that in this heated moment,
15:28when there is this escalation between Pakistan and India
15:33over the horrendous and heinous crime that took place,
15:37the terrorist attack in Kashmir, I didn't expect that so blatantly
15:41he would come out and admit this.
15:45I mean, we over the years have interviewed different Pakistani ministers
15:49and leaders and they've often talked about the fact that Pakistan too
15:53has been a victim of terrorism, but they haven't come out
15:57and so openly said this in a television interview
16:01at a time when things are so heated.
16:03So just to answer your question, my first reaction perhaps
16:07was slightly jaw-dropping.
16:09I mean, if you watch the interview, you see me almost take a breath,
16:13a pause.
16:15I sort of want him to elaborate, so I sort of take in what he says
16:20and give him a moment of pause to either recollect his thoughts
16:26because I thought maybe he made a mistake,
16:28maybe he didn't fully comprehend or understand what I was saying.
16:32And then he goes on to clarify, to say,
16:35no, we are doing that, we did do for decades the dirty work of the West.
16:40And then he, you know, goes on to sort of say,
16:43but that isn't the case now.
16:44Lashkar-Ateba doesn't exist as an organization.
16:47We don't know who the resistance front is
16:50and what you're talking about.
16:52But we used to do this.
16:54We don't do this now.
16:55You know, it's interesting what you're saying
16:57because the truth of the matter is that Pakistan has always lived by this deniability.
17:03They've always tried to deny every terror attack,
17:07especially those aimed at India.
17:08You will recall even after Mumbai 2611,
17:11there was initially this denial.
17:13Then when terrorist Kassab was caught red-handed,
17:16the Pakistanis could not deny it any further.
17:18In that sense, it was important for us to hear a functionary
17:21at the level of a defense minister admitting to Pakistan's role in sponsoring terror
17:26and then trying to suddenly backtrack by saying that's in the past, not in the present.
17:31Is there a sense you got from this response to the interview that's gone viral
17:36that the world also no longer believes Pakistan's deniability,
17:40that when Pakistan now says that we are not involved in terror,
17:43as it kept saying in the past,
17:45the world no longer trusts Pakistan anymore?
17:48Yes, Rajdeep, I think that that was what made the interview go viral.
17:57Not only were we hearing an ambition like this from a minister at that level
18:03at a time where things are so tense between the two nations
18:07and just a few days after the terrorist attack in Kashmir,
18:12but also for him to so blatantly accept Pakistan's history of funding, aiding, giving sanctuaries.
18:22I mean, as you know, for the two decades or so of the Afghan war,
18:27not only was Pakistan getting billions of dollars from the United States,
18:33they were constantly accused of playing a double game.
18:36In 2018, the then-President Trump during his first administration,
18:41one of the things he did, I remember it was January 1 in 2018,
18:45one of the first things he came out and did was say that we are going to cut all military aid to Pakistan
18:51because our troops are dying on the ground, NATO forces are dying on the ground in Afghanistan,
18:56and Pakistan is taking our money, but at the same time,
18:59they are backing, supporting and giving sanctuary to these terrorist groups
19:04that are going back into Afghanistan and launching these attacks,
19:07large-scale attacks on our troops and on innocent civilians
19:11and prolonging this conflict and making it even more bloody and violent.
19:15And as you said, the 2008 Mumbai attack, Pakistan had the same reaction.
19:21So in this moment, for him to come out and make this admission,
19:25I think is what actually shocked the world.
19:28And then to sort of distance themselves, only a few days after,
19:31I interviewed Bilawal Bhutto, the former foreign minister of Pakistan,
19:36and he admitted, he said, yes, my family have been victims of terrorism,
19:42we as a nation, but it is also part of our history.
19:47Terrorism and funding these proxy groups are part of our history.
19:51So that, I think, is what left the world shocked.
19:54And as you say, this acceptance and realisation that perhaps Pakistan itself
19:59will no longer deny the brutality of funding these terrorist organisations
20:05and using it as a policy.
20:09You know, but the question arises, Yalda,
20:11were you able to at all specifically pin the minister down to Pehalgaam itself?
20:16What happened, this dastardly attack in the Kashmir Valley?
20:20Is the defence minister, in a sense, trying to be disingenuous
20:23when he makes this distinction between what they did for America and the West in the 80s
20:28and now what is happening on the ground or has happened on the ground
20:30in Kashmir Valley for the last few decades?
20:33Were you able to actually get him to take that next key step
20:36into admitting that the Lashkar-e-Toiba's headquarters, for example,
20:40these jihadi proxies are in Pakistan,
20:42Hafiz Saeed still moves around fairly freely.
20:45Are they willing to accept that part as well is the key?
20:48No. So it's exactly as you said.
20:53He pinned it to their history as a nation and said that that was part of history.
20:58They did the dirty work of the United States, of Britain, as you say.
21:02That's what he pinned it to, that, you know,
21:04had we not been forced to take part in, you know,
21:10the sort of funding of these groups, the Mujahideen,
21:13in the 80s after the Soviet invasion.
21:16And were we not asked by the United States, the CIA,
21:19to do this dirty work for them,
21:21perhaps the trajectory of the direction in which our country has gone to today
21:26would not have happened.
21:28But in terms of admitting that Lashkar-e-Toiba still exists as an organization,
21:33that their leadership roams freely in Pakistan,
21:35it was not something that he was willing to accept.
21:38He said, what are you talking about?
21:40When I said Lashkar-e-Toiba and this splinter group, the resistance front,
21:44he said, no one has heard of this resistance force that you're talking about.
21:49Lashkar-e-Toiba doesn't exist as an organization.
21:52Where are you getting your information from?
21:54So he completely distanced himself.
21:56And then he went on to talk about false flag operations
22:01and pointed the finger of blame at India and said,
22:04India has conducted, I said, so hang on a second, let me get this straight.
22:08You are saying that India has launched this terror attack on itself
22:12and wants to point the finger of blame at you so that Pakistan gets the blame.
22:17He said, that's correct.
22:18And so I pushed him on that because we are hearing that a lot now
22:22from Pakistani officials and those who are coming out in front of the cameras.
22:28They are trying to say this is a false flag operation,
22:32perhaps more for their domestic public consumption than anything else,
22:38because I don't think the international community is buying that narrative,
22:42but they are speaking directly to their domestic audience,
22:45perhaps when they say that, because as these ministers have long said,
22:49Pakistan itself has been a victim of terrorism.
22:53And Pakistanis are fed up with the way in which,
22:57whether it's the ISI or the military or even the weakness of the civilian government,
23:03is running the state.
23:05And so there is a lot of anger and frustration in Pakistan.
23:08And in order to quell that, perhaps they are trying to say to their audience,
23:13it is not us.
23:14There is a new administration in town in the United States.
23:16They are close to New Delhi and, you know, we need to be very careful of the narrative
23:22that India is spinning.
23:23They are launching these false flag operations and trying to point the finger of blame on
23:27Pakistan so they can launch an attack on us.
23:30And that was the direction he was trying to take the actual interview.
23:34What was jaw dropping in the end was the fact that he admitted the long history
23:38of backing these terrorist organizations in the way that he did.
23:42You know, as you said earlier, Yalda, the world isn't buying Pakistan's bizarre arguments
23:48anymore.
23:48It's a ridiculous argument, this whole false flag argument that they are trying to push.
23:53At the same time, though, there seems to be little accountability for Pakistan's actions.
23:58You yourself, in a way, are a victim of really what happened in the 1980s.
24:03Your family became refugees, Afghan refugees.
24:06You had to move to Australia.
24:08Do you believe that there needs to be greater accountability of Pakistan for its actions
24:13rather than these bizarre arguments it keeps making?
24:16I ask you now, not just only as a journalist, but as I said, someone who's in a way been
24:20a victim of what happened in Afghanistan, this virus that every time Pakistan simply gets
24:27away from by trying to deny its role in sponsoring and financing terror.
24:31Well, I think it's interesting now that, you know, Pakistan for decades supported the Afghan
24:40Taliban.
24:41And in many ways, they have buyer's remorse now because, you know, the Afghan Taliban are
24:47not necessarily doing what their paymasters had got them to do for so long when they gave
24:52them so much support in their war against NATO forces, the United States during the conflict
25:00in Afghanistan.
25:01And so I think you're right in saying there hasn't been enough accountability.
25:07The United States, the West hasn't held Pakistan accountable for playing these double games
25:13for years.
25:14I remember interviewing Perez Musharraf just a few years ago before he died.
25:19And he said, it's true, we had this policy because we felt we had no choice.
25:26And I said to him at the time, you know, General Musharraf, is it because Pakistan can't win
25:33conventional wars so they turn to nuclear weapons and terrorism?
25:37And these two things are not like peanut butter and jelly where they mix well together.
25:42They do not mix well together.
25:44This is hugely problematic for the region, for the international community when you are a nuclear
25:50armed state. And you are also having the policy of backing, funding terror organizations.
25:58And at the time, he said to me, we had no choice in order to protect ourselves, in order to defend
26:04our own national interests. This is the policy that we developed.
26:08At the time, he didn't tell me that we did the dirty work of the West or any other state,
26:13although we all are fully aware of the history and how that evolved and what happened to the
26:17Mujahideen and what happened to the orphans of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and what
26:23they then did with the Madras's by brainwashing these young children who went on to become
26:30the Taliban and the Afghan civil war and the way that history evolved and the fact that millions
26:35of people became refugees and were spread out across the world.
26:39Not to mention the fact that, you know, throughout the conflict in Afghanistan, we all remember the
26:44large-scale terror attack on the Indian embassy in Afghanistan as well. So these are things at
26:51different intervals and points in history where the international community has pointed the finger
26:56of blame on Pakistan, on the ISI, on the military and security and defense and intelligence establishment
27:03in Pakistan. But there hasn't been enough accountability other than what the Trump administration tried
27:10to do in 2018, because at the time the likes of his National Security Advisor General H.R. McMaster
27:16understood the complexities of the region and said that we needed to do more to hold Pakistan accountable.
27:24But I think different administrations come in in the United States, in the West, and they don't do enough
27:30to put pressure on Pakistan to move away from, you know, this policy of backing these.
27:36And they often point the finger of blame on India and say, India has their own proxies and terror
27:41groups that they're funding and backing in Balochistan, so we need to do this.
27:45And I've said to the different Pakistani ministers and those in leadership, that cannot be your
27:52excuse for why then you back these groups. Is that the justification that you use?
27:58And I said that to Khwaja Asif as well.
28:01You know, it's also interesting, Yala, that not only did your interview show Khwaja Asif making
28:07the admission of doing the dirty work of the West or dirty wars of the West, he also went on to say
28:13that there could be an all-out war between India and Pakistan, almost a warning, the threat of a
28:20possible all-out war between India and Pakistan. How do you interpret that? Do you think that this was
28:25just the belligerence of the defense minister of Pakistan is bravado? Or do you believe that a
28:30section of the Pakistani army is itching for some kind of a conflict because General Munir and the
28:36Pakistan army is facing huge, severe pressure on the home front as well, where they've messed up?
28:42Yes, I think that, you know, the Americans have also ramped up their pressure on Pakistan by telling
28:51them. We heard the Vice President J.D. Vance just a few days ago say that, you know, India will likely
29:00respond to this terror attack, but they need to do it in a measured way so this conflict doesn't actually
29:05escalate. And Pakistan, for its part, needs to, you know, take part in any kind of investigation
29:13that needs to be done to find out who the culprits were. And I think there is a lot of pressure coming
29:19from the United States now to try and bring down and ramp down the rhetoric from both sides and tell
29:26Pakistan that you need to acknowledge that this was a terror attack. You need to acknowledge and say
29:31that. So when you do speak to Pakistani officials, they do acknowledge that this was a horrendous attack
29:37on innocent civilians in Kashmir. And then they go on to say, as you say, they say, well, we're not
29:44backing down. And we have heard from Pakistani ministers who have said we have 139, you know,
29:50missiles and they're pointing all at India. They are not on display. The reason I think that they're using
29:56this language is they cannot show weakness to their domestic audience because, first of all,
30:01they're denying that they had anything to do with this attack. Secondly, they're saying India should
30:05not be pointing the finger of blame on us. Third, they're trying to use this false flag narrative by
30:11telling their audience it wasn't us, it was them, and they're trying to attack us. And fourthly, they need
30:16to show a level of strength as well. And they refer back to 2019, for example, and the way that the
30:23situation unfolded there and it ended within a few days. And I think that it is perhaps in the interest
30:30of no sight for this to escalate, because as we know, confrontation can lead to miscalculation,
30:36which can lead to escalation. And both countries are nuclear armed states. I think that perhaps there
30:42is a level of acknowledgement internationally that India will want to respond in some way. But the
30:48concern really is, could this escalate into something else? When I have spoken to Indian
30:53officials, for example, they've said that the Pakistanis can't keep saying, well, this could
30:58turn into a nuclear war and trying to scare us off from reacting. And equally, the Pakistanis are
31:07saying, well, we're not going to back down if we are attacked.
31:10You know, Yalda, it's fascinating what you're saying, but there's a final element to what I want
31:16to raise, which is what is perceived in India as Western media double standards. You're on Sky News,
31:23you did a full hour program on India, Pakistan, focused on it. But there's a feeling in India that
31:27most of Western media would rather focus on what's happening in Israel, between the Israelis and
31:33Palestinians in Gaza, on the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. But when it comes to civilians who are
31:39killed, innocent civilians killed in Kashmir, by terror, there isn't enough acknowledgement of what
31:45India has gone through these years, the suffering of innocents, like in Baisaran, killed by Pakistan-based
31:51terror groups. Do you believe that that is changing, that the world recognizes that there are certain
31:57countries, whether they are located in the subcontinent or any part of the world, the world needs to speak in
32:03one voice against those who sponsor and finance terror and their proxies without any double standards?
32:13You know, Rajdeep, I think it's an interesting sort of concept that you've raised here. I was at the BBC
32:20for 10, 11 years. And every now and then, when Kashmir would become a flashpoint or a talking point,
32:27it would perhaps pique interest. But I do think, and I think that it is something that needs to be
32:32acknowledged, that there is a lack of understanding of the conflict's history, you know, why this is a
32:38flashpoint, why this is something that both nations, you know, feel so strongly about, what is actually
32:46happening within Kashmir. The fact that over the last few years, it has opened up, you know,
32:51as a territory and there is far more tourism. I don't think any of these things are properly
32:57understood in Western media, in Western society. So while, you know, accessing and understanding
33:03the conflicts in Ukraine, between Ukraine and Russia, and Western media feel that, okay, this is a
33:10European conflict and therefore a level of interest, there is a high degree of interest in what Israel
33:16does, and therefore the focus on the situation in Gaza. I think the thing that I find, and it's
33:22certainly a frustration that I feel, because I understand the region, and I have a particular
33:28interest in the region, and highlighting the issues of the region, including the issues around
33:34terrorism and the fact that, you know, nations have suffered there because of state sponsoring of
33:41terrorism, and I want to highlight the issue, is that India struggles to talk about it, India struggles
33:48to highlight it, India struggles to, you know, really raise the issue, perhaps say the way that
33:54the Ukrainians have done, and they've mobilised and talked about the atrocities that have taken
34:00place in different places in Ukraine at the hands of the Russians. I have found that I've really
34:05struggled to get Indian officials to talk on the issue, to talk about what the problems are.
34:10I've struggled to get Indians to come to the camera and talk about the importance of Kashmir,
34:17and yet the Pakistanis, on their part, to be totally fair and frank, want to come out, want to
34:23talk about, you know, why this is such a talking point for them, why it's so important to them,
34:28why they have nothing to do with this particular attack, for example. But I find the Indian side,
34:34whether it's policy or whether it's just the way India is as a state, they don't want to talk
34:39before, you know, any kind of action is taken. Indian officials will not come out and readily
34:44give interviews about the situation in Kashmir, or why it is so important for them, you know,
34:51to defend the rights of the Kashmiri people, or, you know, or to respond to this particular terrorist
34:57attack. So I think that adds to the lack of understanding in the West of the issues.
35:02You know, but the truth is, there, Yalda, and I want to, you know, raise the question that
35:10the West and the Western media perhaps need to dehyphenate India and Pakistan. The truth of the
35:17matter is, India is on its way to becoming the third largest economy in the world at some stage
35:22in the near future. We are a strong, robust democracy. Contrast that with Pakistan, which
35:27finds itself economically now on the verge of bankruptcy, battling various militias within
35:33this country, finds itself the army controlling a weak civilian leadership. It has been included
35:39in recent times under the Financial Action Task Force Gray List. It's had an Osama bin Laden
35:44within Pakistan seeking sanctuary, and it's been proscribed in the past for not doing enough
35:50for countering terror. Do you believe Pakistan needs a wake-up crawl from the world, which needs
35:55to dehyphenate India and Pakistan? Your interview was part of that wake-up call. Does the world
36:01need to understand what Pakistan has become and what India has not?
36:08I think it also was perhaps something that the Pakistani people watched and were perhaps
36:15horrified about, that their defence minister, someone who is in a current post, because occasionally,
36:20as I said, we hear this from the formers, you know, who are out of their post and will ignore
36:25knowledge something. But the fact that the defence minister of a nation stood in front of, you
36:31know, a Western media outlet and a Western journalist and said, absolutely, this was our policy, I think
36:37was not just shocking for the world, for India, but also for Pakistan, because the Pakistani people
36:42are thinking, well, you're saying to us, we are the victim of this terrorism, but you're actually,
36:46as a policy, backing and funding and supporting these terrorist organisations. And it now has become,
36:52you know, the sort of the hand that ends up biting, you know, the masters and it's impacting the
36:59Pakistani people, their safety, their security, their economy, their standing in the international
37:06community. And so I think the other factor is that Delhi and Washington have forged closer ties because
37:14of India's, you know, perhaps their concerns about and rivalry with China and China's great power
37:23competition with India. And so maybe in this particular moment, it will be different to 2019,
37:31because Pakistan has, you know, military hardware from India, from China, sorry. And where will China sit
37:40if this does escalate? And where does Washington sit if this entire thing escalates? And I think,
37:48you know, it is down to Western media also to get the story right, to tell the story properly of what
37:54is happening in the region and have a better understanding. And I do think it does come down
37:58to access as well, that perhaps India needs to, you know, provide the sort of access so that Western
38:04journalists can freely travel across the country and show the growth and the prosperity within the country.
38:10You know, the truth is, I think India is a far more open society in that sense. But in conclusion,
38:17I want to ask you, you will recall, Yala, there was this quote of Hillary Clinton. You can't keep snakes
38:23in your backyard and expect them only to bite your neighbors. You know, eventually those snakes are going to
38:28turn in whoever has them in the backyard. So this whole Pakistan is a victim theory really needs to be put under
38:35serious questioning. It really doesn't work. A country which harbored Osama bin Laden, found in
38:41Abtabad. This is a country which has attacked India's parliament through its terror group, done Mumbai
38:4626-11. Overall net-net, if I may ask you, do you believe anything will really change? Do you really see any
38:53change in the air, given that interview with the defence minister? Or do you believe that Pakistan now will have to do
38:59much more to convince the international community that they are serious about taking on terrorism? And
39:04until then, maybe the international community needs to put Pakistan back under the Financial Action Task
39:10Force grey list and really squeeze Pakistan. Net-net, what do you think next?
39:15I do think that perhaps the Pakistani people are also fed up. And, you know, in talking to Bilawal Bhutto,
39:26he said to me that history is history, and this is part of our history. It is no longer the policy.
39:32But I do agree with you that perhaps it is not something the international community, the Pakistani people,
39:38by themselves. And the state and the civilian government needs to now step up and acknowledge if
39:45that was their history. What are they going to do about the current state of play in Pakistan?
39:51You've got Imran Khan, who's lingering in prison, for example. The ISI still remains as powerful and
39:58strong as ever, as does the military establishment. And the civilian government is weak. And I think in
40:04many ways the international community sees this, understands what is happening in Pakistan. I don't
40:09necessarily think that filters down below that. I think governments understand. But I don't think
40:15generally the public in the West fully comprehend and understand the situation. And you're right that
40:21perhaps the government in Pakistan needs to step up and Pakistan as a whole needs to step up and
40:27convince the international community that if it was part of their history, and it was part of their
40:32history for decades, as they've been saying, but they've now changed course because they've too been
40:37victims. They need to now prove this to the international community in taking fundamental
40:41steps to ensure that these terror, these attacks do not continue.
40:50Yalda Hakim, for speaking so openly to us and giving us a sense of where the world, how the world
40:55media is looking at what Pakistan is up to. I hope Pakistan gets the wake-up call it needs.
41:01The world needs to wake up to what Pakistan has done and has continued to do, particularly in this
41:07region. These are serpents in the backyard, which have been allowed to grow as jihadi proxies,
41:13and they need surely to be reined in. Otherwise, the world will have to reign in Pakistan.
41:18Yalda Hakim, for joining me on the show, thank you very much.
41:21Let me turn from there to a new political flashpoint in Kashmir over the death of an alleged
41:26Lashkar overground worker. The police say the suspects jumped into a stream to escape but drowned.
41:33His family and local political parties in the Kashmir Valley are now alleging possible
41:38custodial death. It's become another trigger for anger in the valley. Take a look.
41:47The death of a suspected overground worker of the Lashkar-e-Tayaba has become a political flashpoint
41:54in Kashmir. The police had picked up 23-year-old Imtiaz Ahmed for questioning in a case.
42:03Sources in the police allege Imtiaz admitted knowing about a Lashkar hideout during questioning.
42:11When he was taken to the location in Kulgam, the police allege Imtiaz jumped into a stream
42:17to escape. The body of Imtiaz was found on Sunday. The police have released drone footage
42:27to support their claims. Imtiaz's family, however, allege foul play.
42:39The ruling National Conference and opposition PDP have sought investigation into the death
42:45of Imtiaz.
42:46The Mishrakar-e-Tayaba's country the L.G.
42:50recently the dead
43:20bodies of three youth from Kulgaam were found from the same Veshu stream.
43:26That case still under investigation.
43:28The death of suspected Lashkar over ground worker Imtiaz Ahmed has once again brought
43:35the spotlight on the army and the German Kashmir police who on their side claim that there
43:40is absolutely no foul play in this particular case.
43:44However, some unanswered questions remain and to find answers to these very questions
43:49it is the family as well as the political leadership of Kashmir who are demanding a judicial probe.
43:55Recapers on Tarik Lone, Meer Fareed, Srinagar for India Today.
43:59The panel formed by the Supreme Court to investigate the alleged cash haul at a Delhi High Court
44:04judge's residence has submitted its report.
44:06Many lawyers have called for the report to be made public.
44:09Shishti Ojha tells us more as to what really could the report contain in the Justice Yashwant Varma case.
44:16A major update from the Indian Judiciary regarding serious allegations against a sitting High Court
44:24judge.
44:25The three-member committee constituted to probe allegations against Justice Yashwant Varma
44:29has now submitted its report.
44:31As communicated by the top court, the committee has handed over its findings to the Chief Justice
44:35of India Sanjeev Khanna on Sunday.
44:37Justice Yashwant Varma had come under intense scrutiny after huge amount of unaccounted cash
44:44was allegedly recovered from his residence.
44:47The details of this case, including crucial communications, photos and videos, were earlier
44:52released by the top court on its website.
44:54All eyes will now be on the Chief Justice of India Sanjeev Khanna to see whether or not
44:59the details of this committee report will also be made public.
45:03Will Justice Yashwant Varma get a clean shit or will he have to face further probe that
45:08remains to be seen?
45:10With Cameraperson Ajay Sina from New Delhi, this is Shishti Ojha, India Today.
45:13Okay, let's from there turn to our fact check of the day.
45:21A claim has been made that locals in Kashmir got into a scuffle with Indian Army soldiers
45:26following the Pahlgaam attack.
45:28The fact is that what you see is a 2022 video from Shrinagar in Kashmir that long predates
45:35the Pahlgaam terror attack.
45:36According to reports, a case was registered against the soldiers by the Jammu and Kashmir
45:41police.
45:43These are times which are sensitive.
45:45The worst thing you can do is get trapped by fake news.
45:49We will continue to cross check every bit of information on the ongoing situation in the
45:56valley and beyond.
45:57For now, all I can say.
45:58Thanks for watching.
45:59Stay well.
46:00Stay safe.
46:01Good night.
46:03Jaihin Namaskar.