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  • 28/04/2025
The Jeremy Kyle Show 20th July 2005

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00:00to sell one of her own kidneys.
00:02How much would you get abroad?
00:04Give me a figure.
00:06I'd like to get the whole amount, what, 50, 60,000?
00:09I've heard somewhere between 8 and 25, if you're lucky.
00:12No. No, because I've spoken to other people who've actually done it.
00:15Parents trying to prevent their daughter from marrying her fiancé.
00:18Why couldn't you accept it? Please just be civil.
00:23I've tried to be civil, Nicola,
00:25but I'm scared that I'm going to get a phone call saying that this hurts you.
00:29And DNA results decide the fates of families at war.
00:32If it comes back to the next door, you've got to take a step back.
00:36Just take a step back for more.
00:38Let me be your dad.
00:39That's coming up next. Stay right there.
00:59Here we go. Good morning. How are you? Oh, how are you? Thanks for coming on today. How are you? How are you? Thank you. Here we are. We'll have a good show. Good morning, Madden. Thanks for coming on the show. Good morning, Madden. Good morning, Madden. Lots of people to say hello to. Hello. How are you, Jack? Nice to see you. How are you? Thank you. Good morning. I'm Jeremy Carlin. Today I'll be meeting four feuding fans.
01:18whose futures literally hinge on the outcome of the next hour. Now, 14-year-old Becky has been struggling to convince her cash-strapped mum not to take such drastic action to escape the debts that are drowning the family. As well as worrying about losing their home, she also has very real fears that her mother is prepared to sell one of her kidneys in order to save the money.
01:36Let's bring her on. Ladies and gentlemen, let's meet Becky on the show.
01:40As well as worrying about losing their home, she also has very real fears that her mother is prepared to sell one of her kidneys in order to save the family.
01:48Let's bring her on. Ladies and gentlemen, let's meet Becky on the show.
02:00Thanks for coming on. I say to everybody that we want to hear the story in your own words.
02:05This is a shocking headline to anybody, I think, in the audience or at home, but tell us in your own words, Becky, what's been going on?
02:11Well, it's shocking for me too, but basically my dad's in prison. We've got a confiscation order for about £138,000 and my mum wants to sell one of her kidneys to pay some of that debt off.
02:25You and your brother... How many brothers and sisters have you got?
02:28I've got two younger brothers.
02:30This must be terrifying.
02:32It is.
02:32Just to start, I mean, at 14, and you seem very switched on, you must have been, you've seen your father jailed a year ago.
02:40Obviously, we can't go into detail, but that in itself, particularly traumatic, you've got to come to terms with that.
02:45Are you about to do exams and stuff like that? It's never a good time, I guess.
02:48Next year, but my teachers are getting on at me because I'm missing so much time at school.
02:53And then at home, your mum obviously finding it hard to make ends meet, food on the table, roof over your head.
02:58Yeah.
02:58Has come up with this plan. Is this the first of an outrageous plan, or has she had other ideas like this in the past?
03:05I think this is one of the first ones, but...
03:07I mean, how does that materialise? Does she just sit you down one day, you and your brothers and sisters, and say,
03:11I'm going to sell a kidney? Because it's illegal in the UK, isn't it?
03:14Yeah, it is. She'd have to go abroad somewhere, and you don't know what the conditions are like, where she's going to.
03:20She hasn't sorted any of that out yet.
03:22Where's she been? How has she gone about it? Via the web or something, hasn't she?
03:26Yeah. She's looked at sites, checked out details, prices, and just one day over me and her over dinner,
03:33oh, I think, just suggest it.
03:35Over dinner?
03:36Yeah.
03:36I'm going to sell a kidney over dinner. I mean, naturally, you're terrified, but you're also very annoyed with her, aren't you?
03:43I mean, you're scared, I guess, because you've... One parent is already out of the picture for a while.
03:48We don't know how long that will be. You have real fears about your mum's health, don't you?
03:52Yeah, it could all go wrong. It depends where she goes, whether they've got a good health system there. It's all wrong.
03:58Do you tell her this? Do you talk about it, or...?
04:00Yeah, every time she brings it up now. I always get my point across, and she never listens.
04:05Why not?
04:06She just wants to get my dad back, and I'd say, look, just sell the house. It's just bricks.
04:12What you're saying, I guess, is, Mum, I've lost my dad. I can't even enter...
04:17I need you. I need you in each and every way. Why do you think she doesn't listen?
04:22Well, I think she just misses my dad so much, missing being a whole family again.
04:27I mean, it can't be easy when, you know, one of your main lifelines, if you're in a marriage or a partnership,
04:32suddenly is out of the equation, she will obviously be feeling the pressure of bringing up three kids, isn't it,
04:37and all that that entails. And I know that she's done as much as she can to try and get this money,
04:42but she can't get it anywhere.
04:43No.
04:43Other family and friends haven't been able to help?
04:45No. My...one of my...my granddad on my dad's side, he's in prison as well for the same thing.
04:53And my grandmother on that side, she doesn't help. And my other grandparents, they can't.
04:59It is almost so shocking to hear. I know that one of your gripes as well is, is that what happens, Mum,
05:03if, you know, me or one of my brothers needs a kidney transplant one day?
05:06Yeah, I've suggested that to her. She just goes, well, and just doesn't say anything.
05:11Do you sort of look at it and think, here's my mum doing everything for the family,
05:15or this is ridiculous and stupid and irresponsible?
05:20Yeah, I think it's irresponsible. It's just...what about if my...we need her?
05:28Of course you do.
05:29Later on in life, when she's done it, my dad's out.
05:34I have a kidney failure.
05:36Um, without going into stuff that we can't, do you visit your dad?
05:41Yeah.
05:42What does he think about this?
05:43We can't name him because he's not here, but...
05:45Yeah, message today is don't do it.
05:47Sell the house. I don't want to lose you because the operation could go wrong.
05:52It's just ridiculous.
05:53And that will be his view as well. Has he told her?
05:56Oh, yeah.
05:56And so she won't listen to the man that she's doing this all for,
05:59or the children she's doing this all for.
06:01She is steadfast in her belief that the only way that she can starve off these debts
06:04is to actually sell a kidney.
06:07I mean, you talked, I think, about being 140 grand in debt, the family.
06:11There was a confiscation order, wasn't there, of assets when your dad was jailed.
06:15And, um, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if the audience know.
06:17I mean, yes, it's illegal in this country.
06:19People have thrown figures at me like £30,000 and stuff like that.
06:22It just seems the most outrageous thing to even consider.
06:26I know your fear also is, in terms of the health,
06:28that, you know, you're already taking on a lot more in the house with your brothers
06:32because your dad's away.
06:33If she's ill or whatever happens, you could find yourself in a similar situation.
06:38If this does happen, then I'd have to take complete control over the house.
06:44I'd have to stop my studies.
06:45I'm going to year 11 next year, and I can't miss any school
06:48because I'd lose out.
06:51I want to become a vet, and the only way I'm going to do that is pure determination.
06:54Seven years, that. Do you know that?
06:55Yeah.
06:56Seven years to be a vet.
06:57You've actually done some research as well, haven't you?
06:59You've looked on the internet into this.
07:00And that's where your fears and your concerns come from.
07:02But your mum just ain't listening.
07:04No, I've seen her on the internet as well.
07:05When I want to use the computer, she's on there, checking prices out.
07:10Extraordinary story.
07:10Bless you for coming on and selling it.
07:12Becca, more coming up very soon.
07:14If you stay right there, we're going to bring your mum out.
07:16OK, coming up next, we're going to meet Becky's mum, Maria,
07:18the lady who says that selling a kidney
07:20is literally the only way to save a family.
07:23I have to sell my kidney to keep my family together.
07:26I don't want to lose you, and I don't want to lose Dad.
07:29I want to keep us all together.
07:30If I help, if I don't do this, then Dad won't be able to come out,
07:35and we won't be back together again as a family.
07:37We're going to meet Maria next.
07:39APPLAUSE
07:40We'll be back in the corner whilst they just hide in it.
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08:00or are you just fed up battling non-stop?
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08:17APPLAUSE
08:18OK, hello and welcome back to the show.
08:27Now, we've all been in debt,
08:28but what would you do if all of a sudden you owed £148,000?
08:33Would you ask for a loan?
08:34Would you take out credit cards?
08:35Would you beg at the bank?
08:37My next guest is ignoring the pleas of her 14-year-old daughter.
08:40We've heard from Becky,
08:41and is pushing ahead with plans, unbelievably,
08:43to sell her own kidney to raise the money she so desperately needs.
08:47Let's ask her why.
08:48Let's find out more.
08:48Ladies and gentlemen, Maria.
08:51APPLAUSE
08:52Welcome to the show.
09:00I have to say, I read a lot of stuff when I do these shows,
09:03and this is the most shocking thing I've ever read,
09:05but the one thing that I've said to everybody who comes on
09:08is that we want to give each person a chance to explain their situation.
09:11I thought your 14-year-old daughter was extraordinary,
09:14didn't you, ladies and gentlemen?
09:14How erudite, how switched on.
09:17I'm mightily proud of her, and I've only just met her.
09:21Just explain where this has come from
09:23and how this all started, Maria.
09:25I've looked everywhere.
09:26There's not money laying around just to pick up.
09:29I need to find this money,
09:31or else my husband has to do another two and a half years in prison,
09:33and I want him home with me.
09:35What else can I do?
09:36I've got no other way.
09:38I can't turn this way, that way.
09:39There is no other way.
09:40I can't get a loan.
09:41I can't do anything.
09:42First question, and we heard from Becky,
09:45that this very man who you want to help
09:47and get out of prison by paying this money,
09:49by sacrificing yourself medically, apparently,
09:52to the fear of your kids,
09:53he agrees with his children and thinks you're being ridiculous.
09:57Well, he is going to say that, isn't he?
09:58Well, yeah, probably, because he loves you,
10:00and they are terrified.
10:00Yeah, but he's in prison,
10:01and I can't...
10:02He can't get out here and help me.
10:03I've got to do it.
10:05As much as he would want to,
10:06I know he would want to help me,
10:07but how can he?
10:09They don't let them out on day release
10:10to come out and sort out their finances.
10:12I understand that,
10:13and we have to be careful as to why he's in there.
10:15Let's try the tact of Becky, 14,
10:18exams next year,
10:20looking on the internet,
10:21finding out this stuff.
10:22She is terrified.
10:23She has already lost one parent
10:25for however long, okay?
10:27She faces, and she said,
10:28and I'd love you to look in her face,
10:29because she said to me,
10:31Mum, I'm terrified of losing you.
10:33That surely strikes a chord.
10:35Doesn't it?
10:35Talk to her.
10:36I don't want to lose you,
10:38and I don't want to lose Dad.
10:40I want to keep us all together.
10:41If I help...
10:42If I don't do this,
10:43then Dad won't be able to come out,
10:46and we won't be back together again as a family.
10:48Don't you want Dad to come home?
10:50Who's going to look after you?
10:52You want me to sacrifice my studies,
10:53sacrifice my ambitions?
10:53No, I won't ask you to look after me,
10:56because that will all be taken care of in the sale.
10:58But, Maria, the irony of this whole thing
11:00is this is illegal in the United Kingdom,
11:02and if you got caught in some scabby backstreet place,
11:05you'd go to prison as well,
11:06and all three kids would be left on their tod.
11:08No, no, because you can go abroad,
11:09and you can do it abroad,
11:10and believe me,
11:11some of those hospitals are broader much better than here.
11:14Well, hold on a second.
11:15Let me take a tap that maybe people won't lie,
11:16but there you go.
11:17This show's going to be about honesty and directness.
11:19Whether or not your Dad's innocent or guilty,
11:21he's in prison,
11:22and that system is taking place,
11:23right?
11:24If I was in your position,
11:25yeah, it's important I would have him with me,
11:28but I would be wanting to protect my children
11:29and make sure that if justice was...
11:31I am protecting them.
11:31No, no, if justice comes out,
11:33the guy will come out anyway.
11:34Jamie, you're not listening to me,
11:35I am protecting them,
11:36because that's a thing a mother's got to do.
11:38I don't think you are protecting them.
11:39I think that you are jeopardising your own health,
11:41and I don't think you're listening to a 14-year-old
11:43who's terrified.
11:44Look at her.
11:45What's going to happen?
11:45Well, I can live with one kidney.
11:48But I want us all back together again.
11:50It's a perfectly healthy one.
11:51Lots of people, they don't have the option.
11:54They'd love to have two kidneys.
11:56Well, I'd be helping somebody else,
11:58and they would in turn be helping me.
12:00You know you said about hospitals abroad.
12:02Why is that wrong to help other people as well?
12:04I think that you're putting your husband before your kids.
12:05I am not putting my husband before my kids.
12:07I think you are, madam.
12:08That's just my opinion, whether you agree with me or not.
12:09That's what I think.
12:10But they're his father.
12:11He's in prison.
12:12He's in prison, right?
12:14And I can't get into an argument about whether he's right or wrong,
12:17but he is in prison,
12:18and a system will take place,
12:19whether he's innocent or guilty,
12:20he will do extra time and he will come out.
12:22I would just have to look at a 14-year-old
12:24and two younger siblings and think,
12:25my God, you know,
12:26they need me as a stabilising influence.
12:28Making deals with dodgy men on the internet,
12:31going abroad to dodgy...
12:31Why are they dodgy men?
12:33Why are they dodgy men?
12:33I just think you're playing with...
12:34No.
12:35I think you're playing a dangerous game.
12:36We're talking about ordinary people.
12:37It could be you.
12:38You could be desperate and looking for a kidney.
12:40Tell me about the adverts you put on random sites.
12:43Saying that I'm trying to find this amount of money,
12:46and any amount I can find will bring down that two and a half years,
12:49even if I can't find the full amount.
12:50How much would you get?
12:52Abroad.
12:53Give me a figure.
12:54I'd like to get the whole amount,
12:55about 50, 60,000?
12:57I've heard somewhere between 8 and 25, if you're lucky.
13:00No.
13:01No?
13:01Because I've spoken to other people who've actually done it.
13:03Let me just say,
13:04let's just pluck a figure out of the sky.
13:06You're 148 grand in debt, you get 20 grand.
13:08What do you do next?
13:10What do you do when the 20 grand's run out,
13:13and it's still 200 pounds a day, or 190,
13:15and I'm being honest with you now, right?
13:16What do you do then?
13:18Take the other one out?
13:19Well, obviously I can't, can I?
13:20Well, that's what I'm saying.
13:22Are there...
13:22Is there not a more practical way to do this?
13:25How can...
13:26I can't go to the bank and say,
13:28can you lend me money,
13:29because I can't secure a loan.
13:32These children need to stay in the home where they are.
13:34If I don't find the money, the house is going.
13:36What's it doing to your relationship with Becky and the other kids,
13:38though, because she said she's terrified about her exams,
13:40she's terrified about losing her mum.
13:43It's almost like in this steadfast desire to do what you're doing,
13:46and you think it's right, that's fine,
13:48fair play to you, that's the way that you see it,
13:50but in this steadfast belief that that's what you've got to do,
13:52you're ignoring everything else around you.
13:54The very guy who's in prison tells you you're doing the wrong thing,
13:57and your kids are telling you you're doing the wrong thing.
13:59I understand you feel pressure,
14:00and, oh my God, how do I get the money,
14:01but maybe I'm a bit idealistic.
14:03There's got to be a better way, hasn't there?
14:04Are you going to admit defeat?
14:06Are you going to actually pay it?
14:08If I don't pay it, the man's just going to go up and up and up?
14:12It'll just go up and up and up, Becky.
14:13No one's going to say, well, we're going to stop this right now.
14:15Why would you tell your kids over dinner?
14:17Why wouldn't you just go and do it in secret?
14:20Well, I want to be open with them to let them know what I'm doing.
14:23I don't want to go running around doing things behind their backs.
14:25If at 14 your mother had sat you down over lunch
14:28and said, I'm going to sell one of my kidneys,
14:29because if I don't, your dad's going to stay in prison
14:31and we're going to lose the house.
14:32How would you have re...
14:33No, listen, how would you have reacted at 14?
14:36I think it's a lot to take on board, isn't it?
14:38It is a lot to take on board, but we've always been open about everything.
14:42How would everybody feel if I ran around and did that without telling them?
14:45Becky, talk to your mum, because...
14:48Why are you going to admit defeat?
14:49Why aren't you going to keep fighting?
14:52People are going to lose faith.
14:53I'm trying to fight you. We're not getting anywhere.
14:55No-one wants to listen to us.
14:57Do you believe that there's no answer, seriously?
14:59Yeah, I do, yeah.
15:00Can I ask you something that might sound flippant and it's not meant to?
15:04And I have to be careful with how I do this.
15:07You say that you're prepared to sell a kidney.
15:11I once, on the radio, asked a variety of women
15:13that if there was no roof over their head, no food on the table,
15:17they had children to provide for and there was literally no job,
15:20would they go the whole hog and sell their whole body?
15:22And unbelievably, in a controlled environment,
15:25a huge number of women went, yes, I would, actually,
15:27because that would be...
15:27So why don't you go the whole hog and sell your whole body?
15:29I'm being serious.
15:30No, because I want to be here for the children.
15:33No, I mean sell your whole body, not for science, madam.
15:38I'm being deadly serious.
15:39I've got a husband out there.
15:40What?
15:40I've got a husband to think about.
15:42The very man in prison who says to you,
15:45don't do that, you're doing the wrong thing.
15:46He's central to this and he agrees with his kids.
15:51Whatever, what can I do, whatever, you know?
15:54OK, if we get to that point that you've reached,
15:58you don't know what to do.
16:00Let's try and be positive and think of something else.
16:03You said to me, you're not listening to me, I am,
16:04but I think you are being ridiculous.
16:07Well, why is it ridiculous?
16:09Because I think you're playing with your health,
16:10but more importantly, I think you are terrifying
16:12the very people that you are trying to protect.
16:14That's what I think.
16:15Do you agree with that or not?
16:16No.
16:17No.
16:18Why?
16:20Why?
16:24She needs her mum every night, right?
16:27To hug her and be there...
16:27But you're only looking at the bleak side of things.
16:29How do you know it's going to go wrong?
16:30Go and look at her.
16:31Don't look at me, woman.
16:32Look at her.
16:33Yeah, but how do you know?
16:34You don't know either.
16:35You don't know.
16:35You lot don't know.
16:37It might all come out perfect.
16:38Do you know what I think as well?
16:39I think you're a bit of a martyr.
16:42I think you quite like it.
16:43Yeah.
16:45Whatever.
16:46If this is the last resort,
16:47can you honestly say that you've tried everything else?
16:50Yes, I can, yeah.
16:52This is 2005.
16:54There must be...
16:55But people do it every day for different reasons.
16:58It's not something so spectacular.
17:00It's medieval.
17:01It's flippant.
17:02It's...
17:02It's almost like a joke.
17:05I wouldn't say the person on the receiving end
17:06would think it was medieval.
17:07I think they'd think, you know,
17:09thank goodness someone's come along who can help me.
17:11I just worry about afterwards.
17:13I worry about during,
17:14I worry about afterwards,
17:15and I worry about these kids.
17:16That's what I worry about.
17:18Let's go to the audience.
17:19I worry about them as well.
17:20Well, I hope you do.
17:21Let's take a couple of comments.
17:23You have to stand up.
17:24What's your name?
17:24Abigail.
17:25What do you want to say, Abby?
17:25Have you not got any close members,
17:28like, of the family
17:28that you can go and stay with?
17:30No.
17:31More questions.
17:32What's your name?
17:33You have to stand up.
17:34It's Lynn.
17:35What do you want to say, Lynn?
17:36I've brought up seven children on my own.
17:39I've had debts.
17:39I've cleared them.
17:41I didn't have a house to sell.
17:42You've got a house to sell.
17:43Why don't you sell it
17:44and buy a smaller property?
17:46Rent?
17:47Rent a property private.
17:48Because the house we've got,
17:49it's got a huge mortgage on it.
17:50Now, the mortgage people have said,
17:51it's fine.
17:52We will let this ride for now.
17:54Is there no equity in the house?
17:56But you'll all go to the confiscation.
17:58Yeah, but...
17:58That's why I'm on this fine balance.
18:00I'd rather see my husband stay in prison
18:01for two and a half years...
18:02Here, here.
18:03...than see my kids.
18:05Here, here.
18:06Thank you, Lynn.
18:09I don't think anybody, right,
18:11in the audience,
18:12doubts the sincerity
18:13with which you're trying to do this.
18:15And I think it's an awful situation,
18:17and I said it,
18:17about this country in the year 2005.
18:19But you know what, Maria?
18:20They're the only thing that matters.
18:22Seriously.
18:22It's like the old mother hen.
18:24You have to protect these children.
18:26And I am.
18:26And whether you're hacked off
18:27that he's in prison
18:28or upset with the government
18:29about the finances
18:30or thinking about your house
18:31or whatever,
18:32none of that matters
18:33when you've got a 14-year-old
18:34and two young brothers.
18:35That's what I think.
18:36Why are you going to stop fighting?
18:38Why are you stopping?
18:40Because I just want this all to go away
18:42so we can all get back on
18:43with our lives again.
18:44But you're not going to get
18:45148 grand for your kidney.
18:46It ain't going to go away.
18:47This is a short-term measure
18:48that's dangerous
18:49and I'm healthy
18:49and terrifies your kids.
18:51That's the fact.
18:52Biden, I can pay some of it.
18:54That will show that we...
18:55You can pay some of it
18:56by selling your house
18:57and downsizing
18:58or even renting
18:58and you will have the family together.
19:00You think that we're guilty
19:01when we're not.
19:02What the hell's wrong with you?
19:05There's nothing wrong with me, Becky.
19:06I'm just doing the best for you.
19:11All I can say...
19:12I'm just giving a little bit of myself
19:14to save everybody else.
19:16That's all I'm trying to do.
19:17Would you do me a favour?
19:18I want to put you on to some debt counsellors, right?
19:20You can raise your eyes to heaven, right?
19:22And I can sit here and you can stand here
19:23and you can think that I'm being, you know, idealistic,
19:25that I don't know the depth of what's going on.
19:27I want you to talk to a few people.
19:28I think, I must hope to God
19:30that there's something other than doing that, okay?
19:32And I want you just to say
19:34that you would at least consider other options.
19:36Not for me, not for this audience,
19:38for her and her brothers.
19:40Will you do that?
19:40I'll consider it, but I know there's no answer to it
19:42because I've been everywhere already.
19:44Maybe there is.
19:45Ladies and gentlemen, Maria and Becky on the show.
19:48Thank you very much indeed.
19:49Now, from a daughter concerned about a mother
19:51to a mother concerned about her daughter,
19:53Cheryl is coming to her wit's end,
19:55and I mean that,
19:56over her daughter's six-year relationship with a guy
19:58almost twice her age.
20:00This relationship looks to be heading for marriage
20:02and Cheryl is not happy.
20:04But is it just the age gap,
20:05or are there other reasons as well?
20:06Let's find out more, ladies and gentlemen.
20:08Cheryl's on the show.
20:16Welcome to the show.
20:18As with everybody,
20:19in your own words, what's been going on?
20:21I don't like my daughter's fiancé.
20:24I want him to cancel,
20:25but I want him to cancel the wedding.
20:27I just want my daughter back.
20:30Let's fill in some of the detail here.
20:33Your daughter, Nikki,
20:33who's coming on in just a tick,
20:35started having a relationship at 15 with this guy
20:38and ran away from home.
20:39Is that right?
20:39Yeah.
20:40Six years later,
20:42they've had three children.
20:44Yeah.
20:44They are discussing marriage in November.
20:48Yeah.
20:49You haven't even been invited.
20:51No.
20:51And you and your old man,
20:53who's also coming on,
20:54are not his biggest fans.
20:56No.
20:57First up,
20:58as a parent,
21:00somebody told me,
21:01I don't know if it's right,
21:02that the surefire way
21:03of getting your kids
21:04to actually not do something
21:06is tell them not to do it.
21:07You know,
21:07they end up doing the opposite.
21:09Yeah.
21:10You obviously have genuine concerns for her.
21:13What are they?
21:13And what are they based on?
21:14He's abusive.
21:16He's hit her.
21:17He's punctured her in the stomach.
21:18He's held her against the wall
21:21by her throat.
21:23He's dirty,
21:25smelly.
21:26He's just a slob.
21:27Does he work?
21:28No.
21:29Why on earth,
21:30with what you've said,
21:31would she be with him?
21:32Why wouldn't she be
21:325,000 miles in the opposite direction?
21:35I really don't know.
21:36Do you think it is,
21:37in part,
21:38what I was saying?
21:38Do you think that,
21:39as everybody's criticised,
21:40her head has gone still further
21:42in the sand
21:42and she's gone,
21:43I'm going to prove to you all
21:44that he and I
21:45are going to be the ones
21:45or is she stuck in the middle
21:47between him and her family?
21:49I don't know.
21:50I think she's,
21:52I don't think she knows
21:52what she wants.
21:54Do you think she's young
21:54and impressionable?
21:55She's too young, yes.
21:56Is she controlled?
21:57Is she manipulated?
21:58Is she brainwashed or what?
22:00I think so, yes.
22:01I'm not against age.
22:02I go by appearances.
22:05I like to get to know
22:06somebody first.
22:08Yeah.
22:08And then make my own decision.
22:09What's her relationship
22:10like with you?
22:11I mean,
22:11over the last six years,
22:12how's it been affected?
22:13She won't talk to us,
22:15she just keeps to herself.
22:17Is that because she knows
22:19what you think
22:19or because the minute
22:20she comes through the door
22:21you go,
22:21he's useless,
22:22get rid of him!
22:24Understandably,
22:24probably,
22:24from what you've said,
22:25by the way,
22:25but I haven't met him yet,
22:26so I've got to be balanced,
22:27haven't I?
22:27I listen to her.
22:28I try to give her advice.
22:30Whether she takes it or not,
22:31it's another matter.
22:32What do you think's going to happen
22:33if this situation continues, sweet?
22:37I'm scared that she's going to start
22:38getting hit again.
22:39Well, there are always
22:40two sides to every story.
22:41Thank you, Cheryl.
22:42I appreciate enormously
22:43you coming on the show.
22:44Let's welcome your daughter.
22:45She's 21.
22:46This is Nicky,
22:47ladies and gentlemen.
22:54Welcome to the show, Nick.
22:56That's nice.
22:56Chairs together?
22:58It's a chair together moment.
23:02Do you understand that,
23:04you know,
23:05and I've been like this
23:06with my kids,
23:06she's terrified for you,
23:08she's scared for you,
23:09talk to her, please.
23:10I understand what you're going,
23:12I don't know,
23:12you know,
23:13what you're saying,
23:14but,
23:15yeah,
23:15me and Mick split up
23:16for six months,
23:17we're back together.
23:17He's so much different,
23:19he is trying to get a job.
23:22You've said this so many times,
23:24he's said he's getting a job,
23:25but nothing ever comes of it.
23:26When we split up,
23:27I tried relationships,
23:29other relationships,
23:30but they never went anywhere.
23:32Is it true about the violence?
23:33Don't lie,
23:33look me in the eyes,
23:34he's beaten you up.
23:35Yeah, in the past.
23:35Is it true he doesn't work?
23:37Um,
23:37lately he's been trying
23:39to look for a job,
23:40but he's been diagnosed
23:41with sciatic,
23:42something sciatic to do with his back.
23:44Are you with this bloke
23:45because everybody's told you
23:47he's a nightmare?
23:47Are you out to prove the world wrong?
23:49Are you in a rut
23:50and are you scared
23:51of saying the truth?
23:53No.
23:55You genuinely love him?
23:56Mm.
23:57How many more weeks,
23:59months, days,
24:00whatever,
24:00are you going to hang on
24:01hoping it gets better?
24:03As long as it takes, really.
24:05Because I want,
24:06I just want everyone
24:07to get along.
24:08Even if you don't like him,
24:09just at least be civil.
24:10I am civil to him.
24:11I find it really hard.
24:12I am civil to him.
24:14It's just that
24:15when I used to come
24:15into your house,
24:17he used to either go upstairs
24:18or into the kitchen.
24:20He didn't want to argue.
24:20Or he just totally ignored us.
24:22Tell me a good thing about Mick.
24:24Um, he cares,
24:25he does care for me.
24:27Um...
24:27How does he show it?
24:29Well, he's very,
24:29he is very loving.
24:31Um, yeah,
24:32he used to beat me up.
24:33You know,
24:34he used to hit me.
24:35I think you're still
24:35scared of him.
24:36I think you're in a cycle.
24:37I think you're in a rut.
24:38And I think that there's
24:39an awful lot that you want to say
24:40and maybe you can't say it today.
24:42Trust me,
24:42I'm going to ask him.
24:43But I,
24:43I just,
24:44the most important thing,
24:45whatever happens,
24:46I mean,
24:46you're planning another baby
24:47with him, aren't you?
24:48I don't know yet.
24:50Well, can I,
24:50can I just say something to you?
24:52Right?
24:52Having a kid
24:53doesn't make a relationship work.
24:55It doesn't paper over cracks.
24:57Okay?
24:58This needs to be sorted
24:59once and for all
25:00before you even contemplate
25:02having another child.
25:03The only thing I want
25:04out of today
25:05is that you
25:05and your mum and dad,
25:07wherever and however,
25:08have a relationship.
25:09Can you promise that?
25:10Yeah.
25:10Thank you for now, guys.
25:11More from you coming up.
25:12Well, it does, of course,
25:12seem that Nikki
25:13is determined to wed her man
25:14no matter what her mum thinks.
25:16Next, we'll meet
25:16the two men in her life,
25:18her father
25:18and her fiancé
25:19to see what they have to say.
25:21No liar,
25:22I'm no loser,
25:23I love your daughter
25:23and I'm going to marry her.
25:25If my daughter marries that man,
25:27there's no way
25:27I'm going to give her away.
25:29If you got yourself a job,
25:31cleaned yourself up,
25:32I've been trying.
25:32lived in a decent environment.
25:35There's going to be
25:36some serious talking next.
25:45...to marry him
25:45later this year.
25:46Before we meet the man
25:47at the centre of all the arguments,
25:48I just want to say,
25:49because I found out
25:50something just now,
25:50this is the first time
25:51for a while, isn't it,
25:52that you've actually
25:52seen each other?
25:54You two?
25:55Yeah.
25:56It's there.
25:58It's your mum,
25:59it's your daughter.
25:59Whatever happens today,
26:00okay,
26:01and I know I'm going to
26:02have a lot to say,
26:02but whatever happens,
26:03please, let's keep that going.
26:05Promise me.
26:06That's the best thing,
26:07isn't it,
26:07ladies and gentlemen?
26:08That's the most important thing.
26:09Okay.
26:11The thing with,
26:12the thing with these
26:13sorts of shows
26:13is when people hear
26:14one side of an argument,
26:15they have a preconceived
26:17idea of what's coming next,
26:19and I will put myself
26:20in that category,
26:21but everybody gets the chance.
26:23Ladies and gentlemen,
26:23welcome into the show,
26:24this is Mick.
26:34Welcome to the show, Mick.
26:35How are you?
26:37Fine.
26:38Thanks for coming on.
26:39Thank you, madam.
26:41Now, you've been with Nicola for six.
26:42Yeah, you laugh.
26:43You laugh all you like.
26:44Well, I'm not laughing.
26:44There was a lady in the audience
26:45that was laughing.
26:46Go for it.
26:47Yeah.
26:47Don't worry.
26:48Yeah.
26:49You've been with Nicola
26:50for six years.
26:51Yeah.
26:52Yeah?
26:52What's it been like
26:53in those six years?
26:54Well, everyone's had
26:55bad times, you know?
26:56We've had good times,
26:57we've had bad times.
26:58Yeah, fair enough,
26:59but I love her to bits.
27:00Tell me about the good times.
27:02Well, we've had lots of good times.
27:03I mean, you can't, you know,
27:05put a finger on everything, can you?
27:08I mean, you know...
27:08Well, you must be able
27:09to summon something out of the sky
27:10and tell me.
27:11Sit back, relax, tell me.
27:12We've had six years
27:13of life together, you know?
27:15We've had three kids together.
27:16Okay.
27:16You know what I mean?
27:17Yeah?
27:18So that was a good time.
27:19You can't really put your finger
27:20on that, but you put a finger
27:21on her, haven't you?
27:23Tell me about the violence.
27:25Yes, okay, that's happened.
27:27I was violent with her in the past,
27:30but we had a lot of stress.
27:31We had a lot of stress?
27:33Yes.
27:33You hit her?
27:34Well, I mean,
27:34we had a lot of stress of one finger
27:36or another.
27:36Did she hit you back?
27:37Yes, she has actually...
27:40Do you know where I come from, right?
27:41Do you know when a man hits a woman,
27:42he's a coward?
27:43Yeah, well...
27:44You know what I know?
27:50Men like you, okay?
27:51Men like you don't do it to blokes,
27:53you only do it to women
27:54because you are a coward
27:56and a bully, sir,
27:57and that's the truth.
27:57Yeah, well...
27:58What do you want to say?
28:02It's the truth.
28:03It should be a chance
28:04to say something, isn't it?
28:05Have a going.
28:06What do you want to say?
28:06Yes, okay,
28:07I have done that in the past,
28:08yeah?
28:09But I mean, you know...
28:11What's the justification?
28:12You were drunk?
28:12Depressed?
28:13What?
28:14Yeah.
28:14Yeah, I was depressed.
28:16Why don't you get a job?
28:17Because I've got a back problem
28:18and I can't stand for too long.
28:21No, seriously,
28:22I can't stand for too long.
28:23Why don't you get a job sitting down then?
28:26Because there's not a lot of jobs
28:27that are involved sitting down,
28:28let's be honest.
28:31I bet I could come up
28:32with about ten like that.
28:33What about sitting in an office?
28:34What about sitting in an office,
28:35working on a computer?
28:36You seem to have to bang away
28:37on the PlayStation.
28:37I said it to her earlier.
28:38What's wrong with that?
28:39I don't play on the PlayStation
28:40all the time.
28:41I'm the one that does all the work
28:42around the house,
28:43believe it or not.
28:43Is that true?
28:44Be honest.
28:45It does do a lot of it.
28:46Right.
28:46You see what?
28:47I can't get over it, right?
28:48Now, maybe I'm being unfair.
28:49I am absolutely convinced
28:51and I will nail my colours to the mast
28:52early doors whether you like it or not.
28:54I think she's terrified of you.
28:56I think she's scared and I think she stays, right?
29:02Because she's so vulnerable
29:04she doesn't even know anything else
29:05and this stuff with her parents,
29:07what's this all about?
29:07I think she was scared of him in the past,
29:11but not so much anymore.
29:13What do you want from the relationship?
29:15Look, yes, okay, I admit I've been violent,
29:18but it has stopped.
29:19Why don't you get off your ass and get a job then?
29:21I have been looking for a job.
29:24Do you know what I think?
29:26Do you want to know what?
29:27Maybe it's outspoken,
29:28but I think there's a lot of people in this country
29:30who say that they're looking for jobs
29:31and actually there are jobs out there
29:32if they actually get up and go and do it
29:33and start somewhere at the bottom.
29:35Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know,
29:36but that's how I see it.
29:37Well, considering last Wednesday
29:38I've got 19 job applications,
29:40I think I am trying, don't you?
29:41Is that true?
29:42How are we doing with them?
29:43Well, I've applied for a few,
29:44I'm just waiting to hear some.
29:45Look at that camera,
29:46whichever one there is,
29:47and tell a would-be employer in the United Kingdom
29:49what makes you employable.
29:51Why should they give you a job?
29:52Well, I know a lot of things.
29:54I know, you know,
29:56I could do a lot of caretaking jobs,
29:58kitchen work, you know.
29:59Why do you think they haven't given you a job so far?
30:02Well, mainly because I've been looking out of the area
30:04from where I am at the moment
30:05because I'm thinking of moving.
30:07Talk to Cheryl.
30:09Do you understand,
30:11as a mum,
30:12she's terrified.
30:13She thinks you are a scumbag.
30:16She thinks that you have dragged her kid down
30:19from the age of 15.
30:21She thinks her kid's life is going nowhere.
30:24Do you want to know something, right?
30:25Talk to her, not me.
30:27In the past, yes,
30:28I have been a scumbag,
30:29as you put it.
30:31Yeah?
30:31Right?
30:32I have been evil to her,
30:34I've been mean to her.
30:34I know that,
30:36you know,
30:36and I've changed that.
30:38I love her to bits,
30:39you know.
30:40It's only going to take one thing.
30:41And I would do anything for her,
30:41you know I would.
30:42I mean,
30:43for God's sake,
30:43when we weren't even together,
30:45I was supporting her financially.
30:47Whilst you change your life around,
30:49and you have to put in weeks,
30:50months and years of graft
30:51to convince people
30:52whose young daughter
30:53has been hit by you,
30:55right,
30:55it's going to take a long,
30:56long time.
30:57Yes.
30:57And actually,
30:58unfortunately for you,
30:59just desserts perhaps,
31:00it's you who's got to make
31:02a massive effort.
31:03And the most important thing
31:04out of today,
31:05good luck with the 19 job applications,
31:06I mean that,
31:07right?
31:07And the only thing
31:09that all of us should be worried about
31:10is that.
31:11That had disappeared
31:12and that needs to come back.
31:14You see,
31:14here's the thing,
31:15right,
31:15because like,
31:16me and Chell
31:18and Dave and...
31:18Well actually,
31:19there's a good point,
31:19let's bring him on.
31:20This is Nicky's dad,
31:22Dave,
31:23ladies and gentlemen.
31:30What do you see,
31:31what do you see in him?
31:33Giving it a go,
31:34because...
31:34If he's been hitting you,
31:37he's been...
31:38That was the past, Dave.
31:38He's had six years to change,
31:40he's never going to change.
31:41That was the past,
31:42I haven't done it for like three years,
31:44like I say.
31:45You've done it once,
31:46you can do it again.
31:47I know I've done it.
31:48Dave, sorry.
31:50Sorry, Matt.
31:53I know I've done it once
31:54and yes, you're right,
31:55I could do it again,
31:56but it doesn't mean I'm going to,
31:57does it?
31:58Do you believe that Nick
31:59can turn his life around?
32:00I don't think he can.
32:01You see, here's the thing.
32:02Nick, let him talk.
32:03You've had your save, Dave.
32:04Speak to him.
32:05I don't think you can change.
32:07Your life is a mess.
32:09How...
32:09Both of your lives are a mess.
32:10You can't...
32:12There's nothing else to describe.
32:13There's no other way to describe.
32:14If you got yourself a job,
32:16cleaned yourself up,
32:17I have been trying.
32:18lived in a decent environment,
32:21I mean, your house and your flats,
32:23the flat that we give you,
32:24that we lent you the deposit to get,
32:26within weeks,
32:27it was a pigsty.
32:28How can he prove to you
32:29that he can turn his life around?
32:31To get a job
32:31and stick to a job.
32:33Provide a decent home.
32:34If you want, Nicola,
32:35you can provide a decent home for her.
32:38Absolutely.
32:39I agree with you.
32:39And this is what I'm trying to do.
32:41I'm really sorry, Mick,
32:42and maybe they'll have to take you off stage
32:44and you won't want to talk to me ever again.
32:45I think you can do so much better than that.
32:47You can.
32:47She's great.
32:49I tell you.
32:50I tell you.
32:52Do you know what I think?
32:53Whether you like it or not.
32:55You've dragged her down, mate.
32:57You've dragged her down.
32:58Look at her.
32:58No.
32:59Shut your mouth for a moment
33:00and look at her.
33:0021 years of age
33:01and her life's in turmoil
33:02because you're a waster
33:03and that's a fact.
33:04If she doesn't come home with me,
33:06if she goes home with them,
33:06how can I prove
33:07that I am ever going to be quicker?
33:08Mate, I'll make you seven minutes.
33:09I don't believe
33:10a good word you're speaking,
33:12all right?
33:12That's the way I am.
33:13Sorry.
33:13I want to talk to her.
33:14I don't care if you believe it or not.
33:15Well, then shut your mouth
33:16and let me talk to her.
33:17In the end, right,
33:18it's between me and her.
33:18Yeah, but you see,
33:19there's the thing about
33:20control and manipulation.
33:21You're 37
33:22and I think she's under your weight.
33:23No, it's not that it's closing at all,
33:24all right?
33:25Because I'm the one
33:25that does all the work
33:26around the house
33:26and everything.
33:27I don't look like that.
33:28Well, you haven't had anything else
33:29to do for six years, have you?
33:32That's because I've been looking
33:33after her and my children.
33:34That's why.
33:35Let me say this.
33:36Right, let me say this.
33:37Let's say we help you get a job.
33:39Will you keep it?
33:40Absolutely.
33:40Right, stop there.
33:41Two weeks.
33:44There's a reason behind that,
33:45which I wasn't allowed to explain.
33:46There's reasons for everything.
33:48There's reasons for you hitting her.
33:50There's reasons for you losing your job.
33:51There's a reason for the fact
33:52that everywhere you live
33:53is a pigsty.
33:54There's a reason for the fact
33:55that you will make excuses
33:57for your inadequacies, whatever.
33:59The fact is, look at her.
34:00If you can...
34:01Do you know what?
34:02There's a part of me that thinks
34:03if you love this woman,
34:03you'd walk through that door
34:04and get the hell out of her life.
34:05That's what I think.
34:06Because she is in bed.
34:08They're not excuses.
34:09They're not excuses.
34:11Do you know what?
34:12For the first time since I did this show,
34:14get off.
34:14I'm not interested.
34:15Get off.
34:16Go.
34:16Not interested.
34:17Go.
34:21You proved you can do better than him
34:27when you were split up.
34:29Sorry.
34:29I did not do that for...
34:30I don't give a damn, right,
34:31whether the people backstage,
34:33my bosses don't like that.
34:34I did that because that comes from the heart.
34:36You said to me off air,
34:37you said,
34:37I've tried other relationships
34:39when I wasn't with him, right?
34:41It's not about that.
34:42It's about you with the people
34:43that you love and who care about you
34:45saying, right, that's happened.
34:46I'm 21.
34:47I am going to live my life for me.
34:49I'm going to make some decisions,
34:51career decisions or family decisions
34:52that give me self-respect and self-worth.
34:54I'm going to do something
34:55that allow me to sit on a stage like this
34:57and go,
34:58I don't need that in my life
35:00because you know what?
35:01I'm doing okay on my own.
35:02You are beautiful.
35:03I am sure you are far more outgoing
35:05than this allows you to be.
35:08This has dragged you down.
35:10I'm sorry.
35:11I took this job.
35:12I said I would be honest.
35:13Inside beats a wonderful young lady
35:16and I'm sorry,
35:16but that has taken it away from you.
35:18Do you agree with that, ladies and gentlemen?
35:20Do you not agree?
35:23When you go to bed tonight
35:25and you close your eyes,
35:26promise me one thing.
35:28Up there, I want you to remember,
35:30I can do better than this
35:31and one day,
35:32when you finally get there
35:33without this audience or me,
35:35you ring these two people
35:36because they're hardworking,
35:37loving parents
35:38who care so much about you.
35:39Promise me that?
35:40And we'll always be there for you.
35:42We'll always be there for you.
35:42I know I've said in the past
35:44I'll wash my hands of you,
35:45but have I ever done it?
35:46I've always been there for you.
35:47I just want you to know
35:48that inside everybody,
35:49there's an ability and a talent
35:51and you could do so much more
35:52with your life.
35:53Forget about boyfriends,
35:54whatever.
35:55I'm not interested.
35:56Just stay in contact with these people
35:58and start to love yourself.
35:59Do you promise me?
36:00Will you leave through that door
36:01if you want to stay on the stage
36:02while we do that?
36:02That's fine.
36:02Nobody's putting you in a position.
36:03I just hope out of today.
36:04It's not just these two people
36:04who don't, who say what they feel.
36:06It's a cross-section of the great British public.
36:07Look at them.
36:07I've told him, if he's like it,
36:23one more time
36:24and I've even had to leave.
36:27But darling, so many people
36:28are in your position say
36:29one more time
36:29and then one more time
36:30and then one more time
36:30and then another six years goes past.
36:32I just want you to know one thing.
36:34You've got talents,
36:35you've got abilities.
36:35Don't be dragged down.
36:36Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
36:37Dave, Cheryl and Nicky on the show.
36:40Stay there, you're fine.
36:41Thank you, guys.
36:44Okay, thank you very much indeed.
36:46Next, though,
36:46we're going to be meeting
36:47a couple that have been here before.
36:49They're returning for DNA results
36:50that could make or break their future.
36:52Last time,
36:53Charmaine was distraught
36:54with a fiancé
36:54who claimed
36:55he couldn't even remember
36:56sleeping with her.
36:58An emotional wreck.
37:00Because he won't believe you?
37:02Yeah.
37:03Have you tried believing her?
37:06I've tried, aye,
37:06but there's that many things
37:08that keep
37:08putting
37:10fuel in the doubt.
37:12Charmaine's hoping
37:13that DNA will prove
37:14they did sleep with each other
37:15and he is the father of a child.
37:17Let's meet her.
37:18Welcome Charmaine,
37:19ladies and gentlemen.
37:21Hiya.
37:22Welcome back.
37:25Just briefly,
37:26just a brief recap,
37:27new audience.
37:29You and your man,
37:30Stephen,
37:31you've both had
37:32quite well-documented
37:32problems with drugs
37:33in the past
37:34and all that sort of stuff.
37:35Just explain why
37:36there's any confusion
37:37at all about
37:37the paternity of the child.
37:40Well,
37:40last year,
37:42I received
37:43some criminal injuries
37:44compensation,
37:45so we decided
37:47that the house
37:47we were in,
37:48we were going to decorate,
37:50put some laminate flooring
37:51down,
37:51painting the works.
37:53So we started to do that
37:54and the people
37:56that were helping us
37:57do a flat-up,
37:58we started taking
37:59infetamin sulphate with.
38:03And due to that,
38:04my partner ended up
38:05with short-term psychosis,
38:07as the doctor called it.
38:09And this is why
38:11he's saying
38:12that he can't remember.
38:14Now,
38:14you have had
38:15drug problems before
38:16and you've moved on
38:17from that.
38:18Stephen is still
38:19undergoing treatment.
38:20The two of us
38:21are on methadone
38:22on a reduction programme.
38:24He actually said
38:25last time,
38:25I was so out of it,
38:27I don't even think
38:27that I could have slept
38:28with you
38:28and you must have been
38:29sleeping with one of the painters.
38:30In fact,
38:31he should have been
38:31or might have been
38:32touching up more than the walls.
38:33That's the gripe,
38:34isn't it,
38:34to be perfectly honest?
38:35Just about, yeah.
38:35You're here today
38:36to say this is going to prove
38:37that you are the father
38:38of his child,
38:39we've got to put this behind us,
38:40draw a line in the sand
38:40and move on
38:41and, you know,
38:42we can go from there.
38:43Yeah,
38:43because I don't want to,
38:44if I ever fall pregnant again,
38:47I don't want this to be happening again.
38:49You're 100% sure, aren't you?
38:50Yeah, 100%.
38:50Shall we find out
38:51whether you're right?
38:51Let's bring the other part
38:52of the equation,
38:53ladies and gentlemen,
38:53Stephen,
38:54Charmaine's partner.
38:55It's funny how you remember people.
39:02Fair play.
39:02I do remember last time.
39:03Both of you have faced
39:04the problems of Jugg's head on
39:06and you're trying to turn
39:06your life around
39:07and you want to know the truth?
39:09I do, aye.
39:10If you are the dad,
39:11is everything going to be fine
39:12in the relationship?
39:14I'd better counsel than that, aye.
39:16Has he been a good dad so far?
39:18Yeah, very.
39:19Considering the circumstances, yeah.
39:21Do you know what I admire
39:22about both of you?
39:23You've had problems,
39:24well documented.
39:24You put your hands in the air,
39:25you're doing something about it.
39:26Let's find out the truth.
39:27Will has the document just here.
39:29You can take that for me, young man.
39:30I know what I want it to say.
39:32I'll look at him.
39:33Bless.
39:34It's one of those award-winner parties,
39:35isn't it?
39:35The DNA test results show
39:36that Stephen is the biological father
39:38of Charmaine's baby.
39:42Thank you, Charlie.
39:44Thank you, Charlie.
39:51And that,
39:51shall I tell you something else as well, right?
39:53Apart from giving you the card,
39:54because we're great on expenses here,
39:56because we're great on expenses here,
39:56that gives you every reason
39:58to go through with this treatment,
40:00kick the drugs.
40:01This lady loves you.
40:02You love her, don't you?
40:03Very much, aye.
40:04I love her that much.
40:06I'd read you for first year on the show.
40:07Oh, she couldn't have anything.
40:09Oh, she couldn't have anything.
40:11Oh, we came on with a ring.
40:14Yeah.
40:16It's all happening today. Thank you guys. You probably want to go and get a room straight away, don't you?
40:28Well done. We'll pass you a bit of time. If you go backstage, I saw you had a hotel room. Go and celebrate these guys.
40:33Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot.
40:35Off you go. Lovely.
40:37OK, coming up, more returning guests looking for the truth that only DNA results can provide.
40:42Please don't go away.
41:16Now, it's 09011 30 50 60.
41:20OK, hi and welcome back to the show. Now, my next guests have also been on this show before. Last time Calvin came here to confront the ex that had run off with his best mate whilst he was doing time in prison.
41:40Why and put barriers in the way and make it difficult for him and use the kid as a weapon or not?
41:44No, I won't do that. At the end of the day, if Calvin is a dad, she's got a right to know a dad.
41:48Is it fair to Nick, your best mate's girlfriend? Nick, are you lost in yourself, Nick?
41:52Me and Carl have finished and then I started seeing him a week later.
41:55But he's in prison thinking he's with you and you're with him.
41:58This time they're back for DNA results that will finally tell them who fathered the baby they both want as theirs.
42:04Let's meet them. Separate doors, separate characters. Calvin and Carl.
42:09APPLAUSE
42:13No matter what happens, Calvin, lad, no matter what happens, she's used to stuffing you think I'm a dad, so...
42:18Yeah, but if it comes back, she's mad, but you've got to take a step back, lad.
42:23Take a step back for more? Let me be a dad.
42:26Yeah, but when she's with you, when she's with me, slugging through me's dad, so...
42:29Yeah, but you've still got to let me... Yeah, I know.
42:32Let me be a dad. Welcome, lads.
42:36How are you? Right, Jeremy. Which one's Calvin? Me.
42:38I'm only joking. Carl, how are you?
42:41All right.
42:42Just before we do this, right, the irony of this whole situation, Tiffany's stuck in the middle in more ways than one, to be honest,
42:47but you used to be best mates from the age of six.
42:50Yeah.
42:51You both had slightly checkered pasts, you've turned the corner, you are trying to turn the corner, you've got a new relationship.
42:57Yeah.
42:58The only thing that matters here today is Tiffany's child, is it yours, is it yours?
43:03And I try to stay on the other show, people take up positions.
43:05You can't see the child even if it's yours, you're not going to, I'm into...
43:08Can you just, between the two of you, say that whatever happens today, right, the most important thing is the child.
43:13If you are the biological father, he has to have a role, right, he has to have a role, right?
43:17For the kid, not for her, not for you or for Tiff, right?
43:21Yeah.
43:22And you also have to understand that if you are the biological father, and I want, you know, the audience to agree, I hope, please,
43:26it takes an awful lot for a man to take somebody else's kid up.
43:29So you two should be doing your best to make sure that the child gets the right thing.
43:33Isn't that the right thing to say?
43:34Yeah.
43:35Do you agree with that?
43:36Yeah.
43:37Can we have that commitment?
43:38Yeah.
43:39Since the last show I said no violence or no DNA test.
43:41Been any violence?
43:42No.
43:43Been any threats?
43:44No.
43:45Do you, guys, this is one of those moments, right?
43:48You can do this.
43:49You can put aside all the rubbish.
43:50I know you've got her in your ear and you've got your lady talking to you and everybody takes up positions.
43:54It's the child, isn't it?
43:55Yeah.
43:56Yeah.
43:57Okay?
43:58You don't actually have to like each other.
43:59But I'll always like all these old people.
44:02Well, I think I'll always be my mate anyway.
44:04True?
44:05That's the way I am.
44:06I'm not sure that Tiffany will allow that.
44:08Well, that's Tiffany's problem with you, really.
44:10If he changes and it does be how we said he's going to be, then that's different, isn't it?
44:14But if he carries under my ears, I'm not just going to let him get on with someone.
44:18So, if you're the dad, how will you feel?
44:20How will I feel?
44:21I'll feel all right.
44:22As long as he's going to be there and not...
44:25If he's the dad, how will you feel?
44:27I'll be gutted, obviously.
44:29You want to be the dad?
44:31Of course I do.
44:32Let's bring on the lady in the centre of all of this.
44:34I remember her so well from last time.
44:35Ladies and gentlemen, Tiffany's on the show!
44:37APPLAUSE
44:44Welcome back, Tiff.
44:45Hi.
44:46How are you?
44:47All right.
44:48I want to ask you something straight away, because everybody took up positions before, right?
44:51If Calvin is the dad, can you put aside what you might think, the past and all that,
44:58and for the sake of your child, give him the chance to be involved in your child's life.
45:03If he messes up, yes, goodnight, God bless.
45:06Thank you very much.
45:07Will you give him that chance?
45:08Yeah.
45:09You've said it on national television?
45:11Yeah.
45:12If you're not, he's going to move on with his life.
45:15I guess you're helping, even hoping, that Carl is the dad.
45:20What are you feeling right now?
45:21Nervous?
45:22No.
45:23Because Carl's always going to be there anyway.
45:26So when Calvin lets her down again, he'll be there to pick up the pieces.
45:30You think Calvin will let her down?
45:32You're always laying her down.
45:33I'm still seeing her.
45:34I'm still having her overnight.
45:36How can you say you see her when you're in and out of jail?
45:39When me mum has it?
45:41Oh, so when your mum's been having her, you've been having her?
45:43I've been seeing her, yeah.
45:44I've always been in contact with her.
45:47Have you been in jail recently?
45:49Not for about ten months, no.
45:51Excellent.
45:52Not for ten months.
45:53If this child is yours, right?
45:54To the first time since he's about 16.
45:56If this child is yours, that should be a life-changing moment.
45:59This should be the moment where you say, I ain't going to do wrong again.
46:01I'm going to get off my backside, I'm going to do right,
46:03I'm going to live a proper moral life, and I'm going to provide for my kid.
46:05Can you do that?
46:06Yeah.
46:07You've got to, though.
46:08That's the most important thing.
46:09I provide when she's with me anyway.
46:10I know you're cynical, both of you, and maybe you have good reason to be,
46:13but we have got you to a point where you're saying, we'll give him a chance.
46:16Talk to me about the birth certificate.
46:18My pet hate this.
46:20His names are on a birth certificate, Carla.
46:22If Calvin is the dad, you'll change that, won't you?
46:25He'll never go on his certificate.
46:27Why?
46:28Because I don't want him to.
46:29What are you going to do when she wants to find out the truth?
46:31If in later life she needs an operation, she needs blood, she needs whatever,
46:34what are you going to do?
46:35Well then, she'll know.
46:36So you're not going to tell her that Calvin's the dad?
46:38No, she'll know anyway, if he has a dad today, then she'll get to know him.
46:41What you're saying almost is, if he turns out to be the dad,
46:44you've got to prove yourself because of your past.
46:46That's what you're both saying?
46:47Yeah.
46:48Is that acceptable, isn't it, ladies and gentlemen?
46:49Yeah.
46:50Are you prepared to do that?
46:51Yeah.
46:52Because a lot of people go, oh, I can't be bothered.
46:53I'll walk away.
46:54And there's a part of you that thinks that'll happen.
46:57Yeah?
46:58Yeah.
46:59I won't name change back to original name.
47:01Well, that'll never happen.
47:02No.
47:03First up, we're going to do Carl's results.
47:05Are you the father?
47:06Um, er, let me just give you those.
47:09Thank you, Will.
47:10Um, how old's the child?
47:1218 months.
47:1318 months.
47:14Okay, 18 months.
47:15The DNA test results show that Carl is not the biological father of Tiffany's baby.
47:22That's for you, sir.
47:23Thank you very much indeed.
47:25Now, what are we going to do if Calvin isn't?
47:27It's a whole different show.
47:31Are you, are you expecting Calvin to be the dad?
47:34Are you?
47:35Yeah.
47:36How are you feeling now?
47:37Me, I'm all right.
47:38How are you feeling?
47:39Tense.
47:40Tense.
47:41The DNA test results show that Calvin is the biological father of Tiffany's baby.
47:46I know all the big front.
47:56I've spoken to a few people over the years.
47:58Um, that's got to you.
48:00Tell me.
48:01Talk to me.
48:02Oh, fuck you.
48:03Oh my God.
48:04I know.
48:05Oh my God.
48:06I'm too good here.
48:07She's out of it.
48:08She's not buying this at all.
48:09What a load of rubbish.
48:10Can you let him at least try and prove that he can be there for your daughter?
48:14Can you do that?
48:15Please, Tess?
48:16Yeah, I can.
48:17But what if he lets her down again?
48:18Then I would say, and you better look at me when I'm saying this.
48:21If you let her down again, you go to prison, you don't see her.
48:24You ain't worth anything as a father.
48:25But maybe, just maybe, unless I'm going soft, this could be a defining moment in his life.
48:29I know you're cynical, but just for me, on national television, say we'll give you...
48:33Look at him and say, you've got a chance.
48:35Mess it up and you won't see her, but you have a chance to be a dad.
48:38Say that to him.
48:39I do mean that.
48:40Yeah, he has got a chance.
48:41To him, not me.
48:42You've got a chance.
48:43But this is your last chance, Calvin.
48:45You've had 18 months to sort yourself out and need to come to this.
48:48I know, yeah.
48:4918 months of a life.
48:50This is your last chance.
48:51I think that's fair.
48:52I know I'm screwed up, yeah.
48:53I know you're chuffed.
48:54And the ball's in your court now, because ultimately, right, you're loaded down.
48:57It won't be Tiff and your man that judge you, it'll be your daughter.
49:01This is your moment to try and do your best by her, and I hope that you can grasp it.
49:05Thank you for your...
49:06I know you've moved big time from the last show, and I understand that you're slightly cynical, right?
49:11Well, you would be as a Stoke fan, wouldn't you, to be honest?
49:13But I wish you all the best of luck.
49:15Ladies and gentlemen, Tiffany, Karl and Calvin on the show.
49:18Well done, guys.
49:20A big thank you to all of my guests, of course, today.
49:22Don't forget, on the Jeremy Karl Show, I don't mince my words, but I will do my utmost to get you the best help in the best way to tackle whatever problems you may be facing.
49:29We are out of time for today, but please stay tuned on ITV1.
49:32This Morning is coming up soon.
49:33We'll see you soon.
49:34Take care.
49:35Bye-bye.
49:36We'll see you soon.
50:06You