00:00Chair recognizes now the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Lee.
00:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this important hearing.
00:08Thank you to our witnesses who have joined us today to provide testimony.
00:12This committee remains committed to restoring public trust in our federal law enforcement agencies,
00:18and a critical part of that involves holding open, informed conversations with experts like yourself
00:24to identify areas of proposed reform and change that we can then use to inform our work in collaboration with the intelligence community.
00:33Last Congress, I was proud to lead the RISA bill that we've been discussing here today,
00:39which made significant reforms to how our federal law enforcement agencies handle, collect, and retain critical intelligence.
00:48This legislation was an important first step in our broader effort to rebuild confidence in the intelligence community and to keep America secure.
00:57There is no question that the abuses that we have seen, particularly in the FBI's handling of Section 702 information, are deeply troubling,
01:06and the surveillance, unauthorized or unlawful, of American citizens must be stopped.
01:12It should not have happened, and it must not happen going forward,
01:16which is why accountability and transparency and the things that we are discussing here today are so important.
01:23But it is also important that any discussion that we have about 702 include a recognition of why we have it and why it exists,
01:32and that this is a vital part of our country's intelligence-gathering capabilities.
01:38It is an essential component of what we do, and it is necessary that this conversation center on how we make it better,
01:47how we ensure accountability and transparency without dismantling it.
01:52With that in mind, I appreciate your efforts to help us strike that balance
01:59and identify where we can further improve and strengthen FISA overall and Section 702 in particular.
02:07Mr. Schur, I would like to start with you and, in particular, return to the discussion you were just having about the FISC
02:14and some of the reforms that we implemented in the FISC to ensure a greater level of accountability
02:21and a prevention of some of the abuses that we have seen in the past.
02:25In particular, as you know, the RISA bill implemented inclusion of a more adversarial process for FISC proceedings.
02:34You just mentioned you thought we could do more there with AMICI.
02:38I would love to hear more about your thoughts about how that program could be further enhanced.
02:43My recollection of RISA is that – and I agree with you, Congresswoman Lee, that there were some very useful reforms in RISA,
02:51and we should look to build on those rather than tear them down.
02:56But I think, one, with respect to AMICI and the FISA Court, I think that one limitation is that currently AMICI are only appointed if the judge decides that an AMICI would be helpful.
03:09And so that obviously leaves the FISC judge with lots of discretion as to whether to appoint an AMICI.
03:16I would – we would prefer to see that expanded somewhat so that there's a category of cases where the judges are expected to appoint AMICI.
03:25For example, cases that obviously involve, you know, sensitive political issues or religious issues like the FBI's investigation of the traditionalist Catholics down in Richmond last year or a couple of years ago.
03:42So those kinds of situations – and you can identify categories of situations where an AMICI at least presumptively should be appointed.
03:52And if an AMICI is not going to be appointed, then the judge should have to explain why not.
03:57And I would note a couple of additional reforms we made specifically in the FISC that were targeted to prevent some of the past abuses we've seen.
04:06One, a requirement that exculpatory evidence be included in an application before the FISC.
04:12And second, also that opposition research could not be the basis for granting of a warrant by the FISC.
04:18Are there other things that you think – first off, do you find those reforms to be something that was productive and useful?
04:24And second, are there other things you think we should get at or address there with the FISC?
04:31Absolutely. Those were important reforms, for sure.
04:36I think one additional thing that would be very useful is to provide – create a system whereby people whose rights are abused in the FISC court,
04:48for example, like the Kevin Clinesmith situation, make clear in the law that people who are victims of that are entitled to compensation when that happens.
04:57That will not only be fair to those people, but also will provide an added deterrent to abuse.
05:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired.
05:06Thank you, gentlelady. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina and Mr. Knott.
05:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for having this hearing. To all of the members and the –
