Pat Harrigan Presses Military Official About Industrial Base Innovations

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During a House Armed Services Committee hearing held before the congressional recess, Rep. Pat Harrigan (R-NC) questioned Military officials about industrial base innovations in the U.S. and Ukraine.

Transcript

00:00Chair, I recognize a gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harrigan. Mr. Chairman,

00:04thank you, and to both of our witnesses, thanks for your testimony today, and

00:08General Cavoli. I never thought I'd say this, but I absolutely echo the comments

00:13of my two Navy SEAL colleagues here in expressing well wishes for your

00:18retirement. General Cavoli, I've got a couple questions for you today. One of

00:23the things that you testified about is that this really is an industrial war

00:28and that we're behind in industry. Is that correct? This is an industrial scale war,

00:36sir. It's using a lot of old-fashioned equipment that requires heavy industry,

00:41and when we look at our own ability, yeah, we need the ability to produce more

00:47weaponry more quickly. And would you also agree that this is a technologically

00:53different conflict as well? Yeah, it is, sir. There's a very interesting mix of

00:58legacy equipment and high-tech, and it really seems that the side that's able

01:04to combine those two advantageously and then out-adapt the other side's

01:09countermeasures and counter-countermeasures, that side gains the

01:12advantage for an enduring period. Is it your understanding that 80% of the

01:19Russian soldiers who are being killed in the Ukrainian conflict are being killed by

01:23FPV drones? Yes, I have seen those figures, sir. I think it's probably pretty

01:30hard for us to make sure we're accurate on those given, you know, given our ability to

01:34be there and count and everything. But it's certainly well over half, and it's

01:38certainly a large number, and it's a number that has increased steadily over the

01:43course of the conflict. And I would say that these low-cost, high-impact systems are

01:49fundamentally rewriting the rules of the battlefield. Would you agree with that

01:53statement? Yeah, the equipment, Congressman, that is software-defined, where a greater

02:00part of its capability is defined by its software, those are super easy and super

02:06inexpensive to modify and adapt. And so you can take a piece of hardware, and by

02:12manipulating the software, you can stay ahead of the enemy's countermeasures. It's a

02:16remarkable thing we're witnessing on both sides. The Ukrainians have proven

02:20especially adept at putting engineers down at the lowest level, observing what the

02:26soldiers do with the equipment, making modifications, and putting it right back

02:29in the fight. It's a big advance. Thanks for that. And just generally, when I walk

02:35into this room, I don't walk into this room as a Republican. I hope my Democratic

02:40colleagues don't walk in here as Democrats. I know sometimes we all do, but I walk in

02:44here as an American. And I think however we feel about the Ukrainian conflict,

02:50particularly as a former special operator, that I think it would be unwise to not learn

02:55the lessons of this conflict. And one of the concerns that I have, particularly as we've

03:01talked about, our defense industrial base being behind the difference between high-cost,

03:07exquisite capabilities, and low-cost, ubiquitous capabilities, and the capacity to actually build

03:13those capabilities. One of the concerns that I have, given the fact that 80 percent of Russian

03:19soldiers are being killed by FPV drones, is that we have little to non-existent capability

03:28in our country to produce these drones. Would you agree with that statement?

03:31Well, we do have some capability, sir. I know a lot of people are working on it. I think as it goes to

03:42the U.S. military, I'd refer you respectfully to General George, the Chief of Staff of the Army,

03:48who's working very hard to distribute smaller drones at the lowest level and to proliferate them across

03:58formations. He's got a program that he calls Transformation in Contact, where he uses brigades

04:03that are deployed either into the Pacific or into Europe to accelerate his distribution and his

04:09deployment of these drones. I know that he needs some changes in the way funding works, but I'd leave

04:16it to him, sir, on that. And I think I'm aware of these, but I think we're talking about, you know,

04:22thousands quantity. And am I correct in saying Ukraine will produce approximately four million

04:28FPV drones this year? Yeah, that's right, sir. So we are very far behind that level of production

04:33capability for something that is achieving decisive impacts on today's battlefield. Right. They are

04:39they are producing drones like most countries produce ammunition in massive quantities for

04:45expenditure. Should we be doing the same thing in the United States of America?

04:49I believe we should be doing that. And I believe we are increasingly going to be doing that.

04:55I just it's not my responsibility to speak about this programmatic, sir. Thank you, General.

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