Holenderski rząd jest gotowy na „trudną” dyskusję na temat zwiększonych wydatków na obronność

euronews (po polsku)

Holenderski rząd jest gotowy na „trudną” dyskusję na temat zwiększonych wydatków na obronność  Holandia przygotowuje się do „trudnych” rozmów na temat potencjalnego podwojenia wydatków na obronność w nadchodzących latach, powiedział holenderski minister obrony Ruben Brekelmans w wywiadzie dla Euronews.  CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2025/04/15/holenderski-rzad-jest-gotowy-na-trudna-dyskusje-na-temat-zwiekszonych-wydatkow-na-obronnos  Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach

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00:00Muzyka

00:08With huge pressure coming from the United States for Europe and Canada

00:11to take much more responsibility at NATO, in particular when it comes to Ukraine,

00:16for the Europe Conversation, I catch up with Dutch Defence Minister Ruben Brettelmans.

00:20He tells me that the United States will no longer chair the Ukraine Defence Contact Group

00:25and also how the Netherlands will have to have some serious conversations about increasing their spending on defence.

00:33Ruben Brettelmans, Minister for Defence for the Netherlands, thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

00:39Thank you.

00:39Now we're here at NATO for the Ukraine Defence Contact Group meeting.

00:43This was always chaired exclusively by the United States, but now it's been chaired by the UK and Germany.

00:49Has the US permanently walked off the pitch when it comes to this?

00:53Is it going to be consistently only European-led?

00:56Because that is a symbolic as well as a practical change.

00:59It has been taken over, the Championship has been taken over by Germany and the UK.

01:04I think it's very important that we all decided to continue the UDCG, the Rammstein Group,

01:11a cooperation of more than 50 countries to support Ukraine.

01:15I think it's also important that the United States remains involved.

01:18So today, virtually, Pete Hex said the American Secretary of Defence was also joining

01:24and also sharing how the United States keeps supporting Ukraine.

01:29But you're not concerned that the US is no longer chairing that?

01:32The United States has clearly stated also today that they remain committed in their support to Ukraine,

01:38that they keep delivering what they promised.

01:40I think that's the most important thing.

01:42I think it's good that two of the leading nations, the UK and Germany,

01:46have taken over this leading role also when it comes to the UDCG.

01:50And yet, as Steve Witkoff, the United States envoy or negotiator,

01:54is in the Kremlin today while Pete Hegseth was online,

01:59we also see the US putting much more pressure on the Ukraine

02:02when it comes to concessions during these peace negotiations.

02:05What's your own interpretation of this setup?

02:08We see a lot more reluctance from the Russian side to compromise and to talk seriously.

02:13So I think it is good that also more pressure is put on Russia

02:16because they need to compromise to a larger extent, I would say,

02:21but they need to compromise much more than they are currently doing.

02:24I think what's also very important is that we continue the support to Ukraine

02:27and that we step up our efforts.

02:29I was in Dnipro myself 10 days ago.

02:32I saw it was the morning after a big air attack.

02:34I saw the impact with my own eyes, also spoke to some of the generals there

02:39who are leading the Easter group of the Ukrainian forces.

02:43And they were telling us that the fighting is more intense than ever

02:46and that Ukraine needs more and more support in order to be able to hold the line.

02:51And I think we need to do that because not only it's saving Ukrainian lives,

02:54but also if the position at the battlefield becomes stronger,

02:58then also the position of Ukraine becomes stronger at the negotiation table.

03:02And if the outlook for Ukraine improves and of Russia deteriorates,

03:06then of course Russia would also be pressured more to compromise.

03:09And I think that's important.

03:11Do you think any pressure has been put on Russia so far, though?

03:14It's hard for me to say because I'm not sitting there at the negotiation table.

03:18I don't know what the Americans are telling Russia exactly.

03:21I think it's very important that we keep the sanctions in place,

03:25that we also expand the number of sanctions,

03:28but also strengthen the functioning of the sanctions,

03:36because we now see that those sanctions are circumvented.

03:39So we should do much more also on this

03:41to make sure that those sanctions are more effective.

03:44But, of course, there are more ways in which pressure could be put on Russia.

03:50I'm always in favour of that.

03:51For example, also looking at opportunities to use the Russian frozen assets

03:55to support Ukraine more,

03:58because that would put both pressure on Russia

04:01and also help to support Ukraine.

04:03Do you think Belgium or other countries are any closer to agreeing to that?

04:07Of course, there are some legal hesitations.

04:11There are also some other considerations.

04:12I think it is important that we keep looking creatively

04:15at opportunities in order to use those frozen assets.

04:19And, as I said, it is important

04:21because we need this continuous flow of military support to Ukraine.

04:25Because, obviously, the Netherlands has been a huge supporter of Ukraine

04:27with F-16s from a humanitarian perspective,

04:30from a legal perspective in terms of investigations

04:32into international humanitarian law breaches.

04:35But looking at your own government,

04:36there is a bit of a split.

04:38There was a €3.5 billion discussion

04:41between the government and the parliament.

04:44And one of your political partners, Geert Wilders,

04:47was against supplying more money to Ukraine.

04:50Can you tell us a little bit about the situation

04:52that you find yourselves now in

04:54as a Dutch government

04:55with somebody, a senior partner,

04:59really against supporting Ukraine?

05:01And how will that fare in the long term?

05:04So, we, of course, in the Netherlands,

05:06we have a coalition with four parties

05:07and we created a coalition agreement.

05:10It took quite a long time in order to get there.

05:12But what we agreed upon is very clear,

05:14that our support to Ukraine is unwavering

05:16in any dimension, also in the military support.

05:19So, over the last few years,

05:21our support has been €3.5 billion on average.

05:23and that's why we also decided

05:26that we will spend another €3.5 billion next year

05:29and that we will accelerate

05:30and front-load that support

05:32so that we can already spend €2 billion of this this year.

05:34Will the Netherlands have to maybe

05:36take money from elsewhere,

05:38other social services, health, education, housing and so on,

05:41to continue to pay for this,

05:42particularly at a time of such global instability

05:45when it comes to economics and finances

05:47throughout the world?

05:49So, if we want to spend

05:51or increase our defence budget,

05:53to a large extent,

05:56so, of course, there is now a discussion

05:57about increasing the NATO goal

06:01and it's about serious numbers.

06:03So, in the Netherlands, we are around 2% now.

06:05That's what's in our budget.

06:06And if we grow to a much larger percentage,

06:09of course, agreeing on that in itself

06:11is not a difficult part,

06:12but how to fund that, how to finance that.

06:15And that will require political decisions

06:16that are difficult.

06:18There are three options, in theory.

06:19You either raise taxes, you cut spending

06:21or you raise your debt level.

06:23And those are all three

06:24are difficult political discussions.

06:26We are having some of those discussions

06:28now in the Netherlands,

06:30but that's only for next year.

06:32For us, an important moment

06:33is going to be the NATO summit in The Hague,

06:35in our country,

06:36for the first time in history.

06:38With the 32 countries,

06:39we need to agree upon

06:40a new NATO defence investment pledge,

06:43a new percentage.

06:44What would you think is the best option?

06:46Do you think that maybe this financial mechanism

06:49within the Coalition of the Willing

06:50might be something that the Netherlands

06:52could borrow off?

06:53Or do you think money should come from taxes?

06:55Because obviously,

06:56the Americans are saying 5%.

06:57Maybe it'll come down to 3.5, 4%,

07:00but it's still more than double

07:02what you're paying already.

07:03What would your preference be?

07:04So I think it is important

07:06that in every country,

07:08whether it's any NATO member,

07:10NATO ally or any EU member,

07:13every country needs to have

07:14this political discussion.

07:15So if we want to increase

07:17our defence spending,

07:18what type of political choices

07:20need to be made

07:20in order to fund that?

07:22And that's not easy for any of us,

07:23but we all need to have

07:25this national discussions,

07:27also in the Netherlands.

07:28And for me,

07:29it's hard to predict

07:29what comes out of it.

07:30And of course,

07:31there are EU instruments

07:32that can support in this.

07:35But the lion's share of this

07:37should take place

07:38on a national level.

07:40Do we know any more

07:41in relation to this

07:42potential reassurance force

07:44or peacekeeping force

07:46or whatever that might look like

07:48after your meetings

07:49with the Coalition of the Willing?

07:50Obviously, I know the Netherlands

07:51would be involved in it in some way,

07:53but do we know what it might look like

07:55and whether Europe could be there

07:57for a backstop

07:59to support Ukraine

08:00with the absence

08:01of the United States?

08:03So I think the military planning

08:05has taken place

08:06over the last few weeks,

08:07so it's now becoming more clear

08:08how a potential European involvement

08:11can look like.

08:12But what we do still see

08:13is that the Coalition of the Willing

08:15consists of around 30 countries

08:17and different countries

08:19still have different interpretations

08:21on how such a military engagement

08:23should look like,

08:24what the objective is,

08:26what the mandate should be,

08:27how it would relate

08:28to a potential monitoring mission,

08:30which is something separate,

08:32but we should take place

08:33at the front line.

08:34Could it happen

08:35without the security guarantees

08:36of the United States?

08:37Could Europe and the Coalition of the Willing

08:39and other countries

08:40stand in for Ukraine

08:42in a way that Ukraine

08:44has been failed

08:44for so many times?

08:45We need to have the United States

08:47on board in the sense

08:48that they are playing

08:49a central role now

08:50in the negotiations.

08:51They are playing a key role

08:53when it comes to European security

08:55and also, of course,

08:56when it comes to the support

08:58of Ukraine.

08:58So they need to be on board

09:00in some way.

09:01I think what we should do now

09:02is make sure

09:03that we have a clear plan

09:04that European countries

09:05can also say,

09:06OK, this is what we can bring

09:07to the table

09:08and then specifically

09:09have the conversation

09:11with the United States

09:12on what their role

09:13is going to be.

09:14But it's too early still

09:15to say more details

09:16about this

09:17because there are still

09:18many different ways

09:19in which the United States

09:20can be involved.

09:21The Netherlands

09:22is trying to boost

09:23its military

09:23or expand its military

09:24and you sent out

09:25this questionnaire

09:25to 18 to 27-year-olds.

09:28What are you trying to achieve

09:29by sending out

09:30a questionnaire

09:31to young people

09:32about potentially

09:33joining the military?

09:34What would be

09:34the objective here?

09:36The objective would be

09:36to have people think

09:38about whether they

09:39would be interested

09:40to join the military

09:41or whether they would

09:42do a,

09:43as we call it,

09:44a service year.

09:44So it's a one year

09:45in which young people

09:46can get to know

09:47our military

09:48and after that one year

09:50they can decide

09:51whether they want to join

09:51or whether they want

09:52to become a reservist

09:53or whether they want

09:54to do something else.

09:55All options are still open.

09:57We don't want

09:58to have any subscription.

10:00That's not what

10:00we are going to do.

10:01We want to keep it voluntary.

10:03But this is a way

10:04to have young people

10:05think about whether defence

10:06and whether the military

10:08would be something for them.

10:09But it's a seismic movement,

10:10isn't it,

10:10that you're doing that?

10:11So we need to grow

10:12in terms of budget.

10:13Of course we are growing

10:14but we also need to grow

10:15in terms of the material

10:16that we procure

10:17but also in the number of people.

10:20We have currently

10:21around 75,000 people

10:23working for our ministry

10:24for defence.

10:26We need to grow

10:26towards 100,000

10:28and on top of that

10:29we want to have

10:30much more flexibility.

10:31So we need up to

10:32another 100,000 more

10:33mostly reservists

10:36to make sure

10:36that if tensions arise

10:38that we will be able

10:40to mobilise more people

10:41in order to support

10:42our military.

10:43Do we know much

10:44about America's plans

10:45to potentially reduce

10:46the troop size in Europe

10:48from 100,000

10:49to potentially 50,000

10:51or somewhere in between?

10:52So far they haven't

10:53announced any reduction.

10:55The US is committed

10:55to NATO

10:56also when it comes

10:57to Article 5

10:58they very clearly state that

10:59but they also said

11:00that Europe should do

11:01much more.

11:02That it's not about

11:03burden sharing anymore

11:04but about burden shifting.

11:05And what I see

11:06is a great willingness

11:07among European countries

11:08including the Netherlands

11:09to step up our efforts

11:10and if then the United States

11:12over time decides

11:13to reallocate

11:15some of its resources

11:16to their own region

11:18for their homeland

11:20defence

11:20or to the Indo-Pacific

11:21or anywhere else

11:22I think the most important

11:24thing is that

11:24we do this together

11:25and that we create

11:26a shared plan

11:27in which they are able

11:29maybe to shift

11:30some of their resources

11:31to other parts of the world

11:32and we as European countries

11:34can gradually take over

11:35some of those resources

11:36but we need to

11:38keep the United States

11:39on board

11:39they will remain

11:40essential to our security

11:41but I think

11:43it's also in the interest

11:44of the United States

11:45to keep NATO strong

11:46and that's also

11:47what they always state.

11:49Okay, Ruben Brecklemans

11:50Minister of Defence

11:51for the Netherlands

11:51thank you very much

11:52for joining us

11:53on the Europe Conversation.

11:54You're welcome.

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