'They're Trying To Evade Detection': Gabe Evans Warns Of Bad Actors Online Targeting Children

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During a House Energy Committee hearing on examining harms online, Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO) asked a witness about what can be done to combat online exploitation of children and teens online.  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript   Stay Connected Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00I appreciate the gentleman yields back, and I now recognize Mr. Evans from the great state

00:06of Colorado.

00:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman, to the ranking member, to the witnesses for coming today, and of

00:13course to the families and to the parents who are in the audience.

00:19My first question will be to Ms. Soros with NCMEC.

00:21I was a cop for a little over 10 years, so I've personally worked these cases that originated

00:26with tips from NCMEC.

00:27I know the great work that you do, and unfortunately, I know the truly terrible and traumatic events

00:34that you often have to monitor and then refer out for investigation, digital alterations,

00:39revenge porn, online bullying, AI, deepfake, sex tortation, and the list goes on and on.

00:45I think it's critically important to note how horrible and graphic these crimes are.

00:51One of the things that I did in law enforcement was peer support.

00:54That is police officers taking care of other police officers to safeguard and shepherd

00:59the mental health of first responders.

01:03Some of the highest levels of trauma that we ever see in law enforcement is the crimes

01:07against children, investigators, because of just the absolutely brutal and graphic nature

01:13of these crimes, and NCMEC and the work that you do is at the front lines of being able

01:18to identify and refer out for further investigation in this space.

01:23My first question to you comes from something that you had mentioned in your written testimony

01:26where you were talking about some of the challenges of online digital security with end-to-end

01:31encryption but how end-to-end encryption also makes it more difficult at times to be able

01:36to actually identify this.

01:38My question to you is, can you speak a little bit about how we can protect online privacy

01:43with good encryption but also make sure that entities like NCMEC have the tools that they

01:49need to be able to find, interdict, and refer out for investigation on some of these heinous

01:54crimes?

01:55Thank you for the question.

01:57So I think when we are talking about end-to-end encryption and child safety, it's a balancing

02:01act, right?

02:02Like so many other things in our legal system, NCMEC has been very public that we support

02:07end-to-end encryption for consumer privacy.

02:10Obviously everybody wants their medical, their legal, their financial information to be protected

02:15through strong security measures, end-to-end encrypted, et cetera.

02:19We've probably all in this room been hacked previously due to a lack of digital security.

02:22However, there has to be a balance regarding child safety.

02:25And I feel like this has become a little bit of a choice where you have to pick one at

02:32the sacrifice of the other, and we simply don't believe that's the case.

02:35So when you are considering child safety considerations, again, those are not financial, medical, legal

02:45concerns that adults are engaging in.

02:46We are talking about children engaging with adults, with offenders on social media.

02:53There are platforms there that simply do not need to be default end-to-end encrypted.

02:57Children's accounts do not need to be default end-to-end encrypted.

03:01We need to make sure there is visibility and transparency, if children are going to be

03:05online in those environments, so that a company has the ability to detect, right?

03:09This is all about detection.

03:11If a company cannot see what is going on, how an offender is approaching a child, what

03:15kind of imagery they are soliciting or sending that child, we will never get a report at

03:20NCMEC and law enforcement will never get a report to investigate and safeguard a child.

03:25So we support balancing using the technology that's available to us, excuse me, to protect

03:31the digital security that end-to-end encryption provides, while also ensuring that child safety

03:36is balanced with that.

03:39And kind of a follow-up corollary to that, my home state, Colorado, unfortunately has

03:43the distinction of having the second highest number of teenage overdose deaths as a result

03:47of illegal drugs being sold, and we know a lot of times those transactions occur through

03:54online interactions with kids, with juveniles, through social media or other apps.

03:59Can you speak a little bit to how the work that NCMEC has been doing in the child sexual

04:04exploitation space, can we use that as a corollary to be able to identify and interdict some

04:09of these drug transactions that, again, are taking thousands and thousands of lives around

04:14the country, and oftentimes the operating principle that some of these perpetrators

04:19use is very similar.

04:20They use coded language, they're trying to evade detection online.

04:23Can you speak to that?

04:24Absolutely.

04:25And it's a great question and an issue that we've discussed with several other groups

04:28and members of Congress as well previously.

04:30I think there is a corollary.

04:32You know, our cyber tip line, which is the receiver of reports relating to child sexual

04:36exploitation that we evaluate, handle, and then send to law enforcement, is a good model

04:41because it relies on detection by technology companies, by online platforms.

04:46Again, based on emojis, like you said, based on coded language, based on direct solicitations,

04:52that would be very similar for drugs in many ways as it is for CCM or exploitation of children.

04:58Again, having a reporting mechanism that is centralized, again, for drug transactions,

05:04would also facilitate determining a jurisdiction, determining where an offender is, where a

05:09victim is, and allowing law enforcement to pursue their investigation.

05:14Yield back.

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