Hawley Absolutely Loses It On Witness Defending Mahmoud Khalil, & Even Ed Markey's Comments 'Insane'

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At today's Senate Health Committee hearing on antisemitism on college campuses, Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO) assailed witness Kenneth S. Stern, Director of the Bard Center for the Study of Hate, over his defense of Mahmoud Khalil, a legal resident and pro-Palestinian activist detained by ICE.  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript   Stay Connected Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00Senator Hawley.

00:03Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

00:05Thanks for calling this important hearing.

00:07Thanks to our witnesses for being here.

00:09Mr. Stern, if I could just start with you.

00:11I see that five or six days ago you gave an interview in which you said that the removal

00:18of Mahmoud Khalil, the pro-Hamas foreign rioter, is a form of McCarthyism and makes Jewish

00:29students less safe.

00:32Now this is an individual who has been accused of endorsing and espousing terrorist activity,

00:38who's been accused of lying on his application to a green card in the United States, who's

00:42currently being sued for terrorizing and assaulting Jewish students.

00:46Do you stand by your view that trying to remove him is a form of McCarthyism?

00:50Absolutely, Senator.

00:51Why in the world would that be the case?

00:53Let me answer.

00:54He hasn't been charged with the crime.

00:56The clear predicate for this, the White House said, was handing out pro-Hamas propaganda.

01:03When you start talking about people's views and what they're talking about in the public

01:08square as a basis for discrimination and then the effect on Jewish students, it's not just

01:14the fact that Jews may be seen as, well, we're pushing this and that's going to happen.

01:21The way that this is going to harm Jewish students is it harms the academy.

01:26Wait a minute.

01:28My time is limited.

01:29I'm sorry to interrupt you, but just wait a minute.

01:30I've got to correct numerous inaccuracies there.

01:32Number one, as you very well know, United States law says that a non-citizen is inadmissible

01:38for entry into this country if they, and I quote, endorse or espouse terrorist activity

01:44or persuade others to do the same.

01:46That same law provides you can be removed for the same reasons.

01:49That is what Mr. Khalil has been accused of.

01:52He has further been accused of by the United States government lying on his visa application.

01:58That on its own would be sufficient to remove him from this country.

02:02He is being sued as you and I sit here in New York court by the victims of October 7th

02:08for terrorizing and assaulting Jewish students, unlawfully taking over and damaging public

02:13university property, and physically assaulting Columbia University employees.

02:18And you're telling me that it's McCarthyism to remove this individual?

02:22Senator, the deportation was started before that lawsuit, before that second question

02:28about what he was saying on his forms.

02:30This is what the government has alleged in open court, Mr. Stern.

02:34This is the basis for their removal proceedings.

02:37And our law makes clear if you endorse or espouse terrorist activity, you can be removed

02:42from this country.

02:43He has done so.

02:45He's been accused of doing so from the beginning.

02:47He's been accused of lying to get into the country.

02:50I just, I'm amazed that you're saying that this is McCarthyism.

02:52Senator, you weren't here when I quoted part of what Justice Brandeis was talking about,

02:57about the, back at a case where there's somebody that was convicted for supporting the Communist

03:03Party because they were talking about violence as a political solution.

03:07And Brandeis cautioned us that this type of robust speech, as long as-

03:12This isn't speech.

03:13Lying on a visa application is not speech.

03:16Seeking to assault Columbia University employees and Jewish students is not speech.

03:22You are defending an individual who has espoused the destruction of this country, the destruction

03:28of the state of Israel, the destruction of Jews, and has taken actions in furtherance

03:32of the same.

03:33You've also said that investigating the 60 colleges and universities that are currently

03:39under investigation by the Trump administration for anti-Semitism is a form of weaponizing

03:43anti-Semitism for political benefit.

03:46You're opposed to investigating these institutions for anti-Semitism?

03:49Senator, I've been very clear that OCR has a very important role, that there are complaints

03:54that should go through the process when you start using the Department of Justice and

03:58threatening universities' funding.

04:00You are opposed, I just want to get this on the record.

04:02You are opposed to investigating Columbia University and others for anti-Semitism?

04:08No.

04:09That's what you said six days ago.

04:11I am not opposed to doing it the right way with-

04:13What does that mean, doing it the right way?

04:15Not to claw back funds, not to say we're holding you ransom, we're getting your faculty-

04:20You were asked about an investigation for failing to protect Jewish students, and you

04:25said that's just weaponizing anti-Semitism, it makes students less safe.

04:30It is when the Department of Justice has a list of places they want to go to, the Senator

04:35Markey's question-

04:36Oh, I heard Senator Markey's questions.

04:38I heard his whole speech.

04:39I thought it was insane.

04:41I just want to say for the record, I thought it was totally insane.

04:44And I think your positions are similarly insane.

04:47I think the idea that we would bend over backwards to hug and kiss and make nice to a pro-Hamas

04:54rioter, because that's what Khalil is, and that we would say, heavens, we can't remove

05:01him?

05:02And that makes Jewish students less safe on our campuses?

05:04That's nuts.

05:05That's nuts.

05:06To Rabbi Saperstein's point, if you look at American history, the times when Jews were

05:11most vulnerable was during the Palmer raids in World War I, when there was political-

05:14Jews are vulnerable now on our campuses because of people like Khalil, and I want to say for

05:19the record, I'm glad he's gone, and I hope he never comes back.

05:25Senator Hickenlooper.

05:26Thank you, Mr. Chair.

05:29Thank you all for your time here and all your work.

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