ChatGPT: When AI upends the real world, mixing 'real elements with crazy, disgusting hallucinations'

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00:00OpenAI is facing a complaint about its chatbot, ChatGPT, after a Norwegian man

00:06who decided to find out if the app had any information on him went and asked it

00:10and it replied that he was in fact a criminal who had killed his two sons and

00:14been sent to prison. The very fake story worryingly contained some real elements

00:19notably the name and ages of the children for example. Well we're joined

00:22now by this man, Arve Hjalmar Holman. Thanks so much for joining us. Can you

00:27tell me a bit more of exactly what happened? If I've understood correctly

00:30you were a bit bored and instead of googling yourself you decided to see

00:34what ChatGPT had on you. Good morning. Yes, what happened was that like many

00:42other people I was curious about what kind of result I would get if I would

00:49ask the question who is Arve Hjalmar Holman, so my name, and I had done it a

00:56couple of times and it gave me various results and sometimes it was like this

01:04you know the thing many other people also have got, like it says this is

01:09probably not a public figure, I don't find any information about this person

01:13and sometimes it just cooked up something. It told me I was a politician

01:20which I'm not, that I was a CEO which I'm not, I was an important scientist which

01:28I'm not, mixed with this you know I don't have any information. But all of a

01:35sudden at a certain moment it showed me this message where it said that I had

01:41killed two of my three children in Trondheim and that's the city where I

01:49was born and this was a mix of real elements and hallucinations, crazy

01:59disgusting hallucinations and my first reaction was that, well my first reaction

02:07was shock, like this is creepy because it's eerily similar to my own life

02:14except for the fact that I have never done anything criminal and I'm not

02:18absolutely not a murderer and I love my children more than anything on this

02:23earth. After the shock I got worried that other people would get the same or

02:31similar output if they would ask the same question and then I wondered will

02:39other people get something similar if they ask about themselves. Indeed it

02:45makes us all try to kind of think about it because as you say to be compared to

02:50like to be say oh maybe it's a politician I mean I don't know how

02:52unique your name is but I could see how in other cases at least you know a Tom

02:57Jones might there might be a lot of them out there and it might make references

02:59to other people with the same name but the worrying thing in your case is the

03:03fact that it started to bring in real-life elements and then make some

03:07fictional story about it. I believe you've, because of your worry about

03:11how people would perceive what you read, you have launched a case against it. Yes

03:16first of all my name is unique yeah there are several Arve Holmans or

03:24several I don't know three or four or something there's some Hjalmar Holman

03:29people running around at least one but there's only one Arve Hjalmar Holman

03:35so there is no doubt that when you ask the question who is Arve Hjalmar Holman

03:39according to European legislation that's what I've been told by people who

03:44have more legal expertise than myself that I am entitled to get a correct

03:49answer. I should not be accused of murder at least I know you know I didn't mind

03:57being wrongly accused of being a CEO or a politician or anything like that I

04:03just found it funny that's what many people experience you know so I tried to

04:11find out if this is illegal apart from being immoral so I checked out who did

04:22anyone have experience with anything similar like this and then I bumped into

04:28NOYB and then I remembered yeah NOYB was this case I had read about in the past

04:34something about GDPR and this guy Max guy. None of your business I think it's

04:39an organization yeah that has looked at cases similar cases in the past. Yes so I

04:44found them and I contacted them with a simple question is this legal and they

04:51told me no it's not legal and we would like to take your case to well we would

04:58like to file a complaint with the DPA in Norway, DataTils unit because I'm a

05:04Norwegian citizen or I have a Norwegian passport so so they did and then the

05:12ball started rolling and here we are. And what is your goal with with this case

05:18where do you think it will lead where do you hope it will lead? Well because I was

05:23starting to get worried about what other people might get I can just imagine

05:31different scenarios you know people who are more fragile vulnerable than I am

05:37people who don't have my resources who become victims of this because other

05:45people could ask a question about someone else and get some kind of output

05:51like this some disgusting output and I think that you can also feed this this

06:00LLM with questions and stuff and it's like it gets it sticks in the system so

06:10it can be reproduced or used for further hallucinations and I'm just I'm just

06:18wondering what will happen if someone really wants to bully someone. But do you

06:25think that sufficient securities I mean I don't know your line of work I mean I

06:29do think your reaction as you say might be the reaction everyone had to be in

06:32that position to be able to take it on and push that case forward but do you

06:36think enough securities can be put on this kind of application? You mean what

06:42what the technological the solution could be to this? Well that's not my job

06:49it's not NOIB's job it's not European citizens job it's the it's the job of

06:54these people who have created this mess this legal mess. So it's to have legal

06:59resources is the main thing for the case would you continue are you continuing to

07:04use the app? I am very hesitant I don't I don't want to play around with it

07:16anymore to be honest I don't trust it and as we have filed a complaint

07:23against the company behind the app I'm very trying to be very careful. Indeed

07:29I'm just wondering in details of that case do you have any idea for the timing

07:33or any reaction from the company in question? No I don't know I don't have

07:39any experience with this these kind of things so well I mean it for the long run

07:46so you know I'm not going to give up because although I was shocked and I'm

07:51still worried about the whole thing I'm hopeful because I feel supported by NOIB

07:59I feel supported by my family and including my three children who are very

08:04much alive. Yeah shocking for them as you say as well and it's great to hear that

08:10you do have the support and of course EU data protection law stipulates that

08:13personal data does have to be accurate so Arve Jalmarl Holmund thanks so much

08:18for your time and telling us a bit more and maybe keep in touch and let me let

08:21us know how how the case progresses but indeed thanks very much for your time.

08:25Will do, thanks for having me. Thank you.

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