Democracy under threat in US from president who wants to be dictator, human rights lawyer says

FRANCE 24 English

Donald Trump's rumbling conflict with the judiciary burst into open confrontation on Tuesday as US Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts issued a rare public rebuke of the US president over his call for the impeachment of a federal judge. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to Reed Brody, a human rights lawyer and former New York state prosecutor.   Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00This is Apropos.

00:04The dispute has prompted concern that Donald Trump is further pushing the boundaries of

00:08executive power at the expense of the federal judiciary.

00:12The White House is accusing judges of usurping the will of the president, who's called for

00:17the impeachment of a judge who ordered the suspension of high-profile deportation flights.

00:23The magistrate is now warning the Trump administration that it could face consequences if he finds

00:28it violated his order temporarily blocking the deportation.

00:32With the details, here's Kairos Ghandi.

00:37It's the latest escalation in a tussle between two branches of U.S. government, the executive

00:43and the judiciary.

00:44After Donald Trump called for the impeachment of a district judge on Tuesday, Supreme Court

00:49Chief Justice John Roberts issued a highly unusual public rebuke.

00:55For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate

00:59response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.

01:03The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose.

01:08Federal judges are nominated by the president for life and can only be removed by being

01:12impeached by the House of Representatives for high crimes or misdemeanors and convicted

01:17by the Senate, something extremely rare.

01:21Trump's disagreement with Judge James Boasberg centers around the administration's move to

01:26deport alleged Venezuelan gang members.

01:29Over the weekend, Boasberg ordered the suspension of the deportation flights, but the planes

01:34went on to land in El Salvador anyway.

01:37As justification for the move, the White House had invoked wartime legislation from the 18th

01:42century known as the Alien Enemies Act.

01:45The law has only been used three times, all during congressionally declared wars, and

01:50allows the deportation of foreigners without following the usual legal processes.

01:56The case has emerged as a flashpoint in a larger debate over presidential power and

02:00the role of the courts in reviewing executive actions.

02:04Some observers fear Trump will openly defy the judiciary, triggering a constitutional

02:09crisis.

02:10For more on what's at stake, we're joined now by Reid Brodie, human rights lawyer and

02:16prosecutor.

02:17Reid, thanks so much for being with us on the program this evening.

02:21How far is the United States from entering a constitutional crisis at this point?

02:27Some observers say we're already at that point.

02:30Would you agree?

02:31And do you think that it's perhaps what the Trump administration is actually seeking?

02:36No, I do think that democracy is under threat right now in the United States from a president

02:42who wants to be a dictator.

02:45I mean, we have seen a series, each day brings a new unconstitutional action by the president,

02:56dismantling agencies that were created by Congress, refusing to spend money.

03:05Congress has the power of the purse to decide which monies are spent, and he's been refusing

03:11to spend money allocated by Congress.

03:16The theoretical ending of birthright citizenship every day as well brings a new judicial order

03:26saying that Donald Trump has exceeded his constitutional powers.

03:34Just yesterday, two decisions, one by a federal judge saying that the dismantling of USAID

03:42was probably unconstitutional and ordering a halt.

03:47Another case in which a district judge said that Trump's order to ban transgender soldiers

03:57from the armed forces could not be enforced.

04:01And now we're seeing, as you well described, the president saying, I don't have to abide

04:10by court orders, calling for the impeachment of a federal judge.

04:17The vice president, J.D. Vance, has tweeted that judges have no right to constrain the

04:26president's legitimate authority.

04:28The borders are, in response to this case of the deportation, we don't care what judges

04:36are going to do.

04:37We're going to go ahead and do it anyway.

04:38So I believe that there is a real constitutional crisis underway.

04:43Are we approaching a scenario, do you believe, where the administration might actually say

04:47that it's no longer going to be complying with court orders?

04:51I'm afraid, well, we've seen de facto that several courts, they've been at least seriously

04:57dragging their feet on a number of occasions.

05:01And they've announced that when push comes to shove, they may not.

05:06And I mean, we will see a lot of these cases are going to go up to the U.S. Supreme Court.

05:14And the problem is that the courts have no way of enforcing their decisions.

05:20In the United States, the executive authority has traditionally gone along, I mean, not

05:28traditionally, always gone along with court decisions.

05:32Richard Nixon, everybody, when the court speaks, if you don't agree with the lower court ruling,

05:39you don't defy it, you appeal it.

05:42If it goes up to the Supreme Court, you abide by it.

05:47And I'm very afraid that Donald Trump and this administration will just say, you know,

05:55we don't care.

05:56And then, you know, that's the last guardrail.

06:00And as you say, the border czar has already said that he doesn't care about what judges

06:03think.

06:04The particular judge in the center of this deportation row, he warned the Trump administration

06:09today that there would be potential consequences if he finds that it has violated his order

06:16about those deportation flights.

06:18What kind of consequences are we talking about here?

06:21Well, he can hold the authorities in contempt of court.

06:26He can issue fines.

06:29But you know, ultimately, he, the judge, does not have a police force.

06:35The American system works because people have respected the separation of powers.

06:45The founding fathers who took over from a king felt that if a president tried to act

06:53like a dictator, that a Congress, jealous of its authority, would step in to impeach

07:00him.

07:01But the founding fathers did not foresee political parties, and they did not foresee the total

07:08control over a party by the president and of that party over Congress.

07:16And so ultimately, if the courts are not respected, I mean, we're seeing more and more people

07:25go into the streets.

07:28You know, the decision by immigration authorities to arrest a protester for an anti-Gaza protest

07:40and to put him in jail has brought a lot of people into the streets.

07:45People who have been fired unconstitutionally from the federal government by Elon Musk have

07:51been going out into the streets.

07:54That may ultimately be the only thing that's going to stop the government.

07:58There was a similar scenario as well in Boston.

08:02We saw a few days ago a judge issuing a restraining order to block the deportation of a medical

08:07professor.

08:08She had a valid visa, despite that she was still deported.

08:11So how are people feeling who are immigrants or perhaps foreign-born Americans living in

08:16the United States right now?

08:18It's obviously very worrying for people traveling in and out of the country.

08:22And for people within the country.

08:24I mean, I know people who have been picked up.

08:30People are, I mean, I have a friend was telling me that in his immigrant neighborhood, people

08:34don't go out on the street.

08:36They're just afraid.

08:38I know a woman who was stopped by the police who's actually an American citizen.

08:44But you know, she's of Latin heritage.

08:48And the police said to her, where did you buy, and she carries her, people carry their

08:52passports now.

08:54People are, and the police said, you know, where did you buy your passport?

08:59And they held her on the side of the road for hours.

09:02And while she was on the side of the road, the police stopped and arrested and handcuffed

09:06and took away other people.

09:10This is a very scary moment to be an immigrant, even to be a legal, a legal alien.

09:21The head of the Columbia Journalism School told his students, don't put anything on social

09:28media about Gaza.

09:30We can't protect you.

09:31This is the Columbia Journalism School.

09:34The attacks on universities, Columbia University had $400 million taken away because of its

09:43supposed tolerance of anti-Gaza war activities.

09:52There's an assault.

09:54People are, for the first time, I'm hearing interviews on the radio with people who are

10:00afraid to give their names for fear of reprisals.

10:04This is something that happens in Russia, in Venezuela, not in the United States.

10:09There's a lot of fear in a lot of communities in the United States today.

10:14The Trump administration as well, on some level, it appears to be trying to shape public

10:18perception of what's happening here when it comes to deportations and when it comes to

10:22how it's defying the courts, kind of framing that as a win for Republican voters, as a

10:28win for American people overall.

10:30Well, of course, the issue, the issue in this deportation, of course, nobody likes, you

10:37know, criminal gangs.

10:39That's a very popular move.

10:40Of course, we don't know that any of these people were criminals.

10:43That's the whole point of having a legal process.

10:46We know from what's coming out from lawyers that many of these people had no criminal

10:52records at all.

10:56The particular issue, of course, is popular.

11:01The fact is that the process is not being followed.

11:08Certainly, Trump feels he has a mandate.

11:12He got 49.8% of the vote.

11:15That doesn't really qualify you to totally overturn the entire government system, to

11:21shut down agencies, to fire people, to put Elon Musk's computer into the government computer

11:26and suck out all the money and just one agency after another being fired.

11:32You don't get to do that in a democracy because you got 49% of the vote.

11:38Reid we'll have to leave it there for now.

11:40Thanks for being with us on the program this evening.

11:42That's Reid Brodie, human rights lawyer and prosecutor.

11:45Thanks so much.

11:46Well, that is it from us for now.

11:48Do stay with us, though.

11:49We'll be right back with more World News.

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