'Sounded More Like A Politician Than A Science Guy': Cantwell Presses Top Trump Science & Tech Nom

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During a Senate Commerce Commitee confirmation hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) questioned President President Trump's nominee for a Federal Trade Commissioner role, Mark Meador, and Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy nominee Michael Krastios.  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript   Stay Connected Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00Thank you again to both of the nominees and your willingness to serve and your families.

00:06Your kids have been camped out there in the ante room having a good time,

00:09but they said that they can't wait to hear you answer more questions.

00:15Mr. Metter, on 13B, you know, we've had the FTC commissioners before us.

00:22I almost think you almost could get to a resolution before we could get to a resolution,

00:27but you agree the importance of having 13B for consumers?

00:33Yes, Senator, I think it's incredibly important that the Federal Trade Commission have the ability

00:37to return money to consumers who have been harmed.

00:39Right, so do you have any thoughts about how to

00:43come to an agreement on restoration of that authority?

00:46I would defer to this committee and Congress as a whole as to how best to navigate that,

00:51but if confirmed, I'm ready and willing to consult and assist with your office or any others to

00:56figure out how we can make that happen as quickly as possible.

01:00But you see that refunds are part of that?

01:04Yes, I believe when we have consumers who have been harmed by unfair or deceptive practices,

01:09one of the best things the FTC can do is get the money back to the consumers.

01:14So, but refunds writ large are a good way of preventing anti-competitive behavior?

01:20They can certainly be a tool. I think, you know, everything is obviously fact-specific.

01:24It depends on the case, but if confirmed, I look forward to working with the staff to examine

01:29what's been effective in the past and what we would want to do in the future.

01:32Okay, thank you. And then I know you got a question from one of my colleagues on PBMs,

01:36but Senator Grassley and I have reintroduced our PBM bill that is about outlawing spread pricing

01:43and clawback actions by PBMs. Do you have thoughts about that?

01:49I can say I enjoyed working with Senator Grassley's staff on the Judiciary Committee on many

01:53of these same issues, and if confirmed, I would really appreciate consulting with your office

01:57and others to talk about what the best legislative solution could be in this industry.

02:01But do you think that that's, you know, I like this anti-manipulation authority.

02:07I've given anti-manipulation authority to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

02:11I gave it to the Commodities Future Trading Commission.

02:16They both have established a very aggressive

02:21oversight of very anti-competitive and manipulative practices. In fact,

02:27both agencies have gotten billions of dollars in fines against companies.

02:32The FTC hasn't done so much here, but Senator Grassley felt very specific about saying these

02:39types of practices are illegal. You don't have any problem saying that.

02:44I would want to see the final report for the 6B study that's currently pending before the

02:48commission. I think that's the first step we have to take. I've been looking at PBMs since I was in

02:52law school writing about them. I'm familiar with a lot of the concerns in the industry. I also know

02:57things have changed a lot since then, so I think it's important we understand what's happening in

03:01the marketplace today, and then we'll know what's happening.

03:03Well, there could be good actors who basically do get you a discount, but if somebody goes to

03:09a large employer and says, I'll get you a 35% discount, and then they pocket 30% of it at the

03:14PBM and only give the company and the workers 5%, that doesn't seem like a fair way to do business.

03:20Okay, I have to ask your seatmate there, Mr. Kratios, about technology. I'm sure people

03:27talked about testbeds while I was gone. You believe that that's a vital role that we play

03:32at the federal level when aviation or quantum or somebody can't do the scale at which

03:42an industry needs to get an answer? Yes, testbeds have served a very important

03:46purpose for a wide variety of technologies. NIST, for example, has a lot of experience

03:50in building testbeds as well. I love that Senator Lee was here as well as

03:57Senator Haggerty because they both, well, one comes from a very benefited DOE state and the

04:03other one is chairing now the Energy Committee, and these are initiatives oftentimes on the

04:08testbed side that are at DOE or at NSF. What is your thoughts about the President's

04:16NSF comments, and how do you think these two agencies fill that role of doing that testbed work?

04:23I think both NSF and DOE have proven with the CHIPS app implementation and with work that was

04:29done even before that for both AI and quantum centers, there's great opportunity to leverage

04:34those two agencies with their rich history of funding and creating and organizing user facilities

04:40to be places where a lot of these very important testbeds can reside for the communities.

04:44So you want to speak loudly about how robust that is. Is that correct? I want to make sure I get

04:51the characterization. You say this and then I'll find out. Oh yeah, go ahead. Take a meat cleaver

04:56to NSF. I think it's critically important that through an interagency process that OSTP is able

05:03to relay the importance of the scientific and technological community to the larger discussion

05:08and ultimately to the decision of the President, and I commit to bring to bear the science and

05:13technology advice to those conversations. Okay, that sounded more like a politician

05:17than a science guy, but okay. What about spectrum? Do you think that we could use a little

05:24testbedding on the spectrum technology to help us really move ahead of our competitors here

05:29and really get the solution for the future? I do. I think it's important to do kind of advanced

05:34spectrum testing. When I served as Acting Undersecretary of Defense for Research Engineering,

05:38we did some work around 5G testbeds at some of our military bases, and why that was sort of an

05:44interesting opportunity was that some of the regulations around approvals for these types of

05:48tests were much easier when they were done on military facilities. So I think across all emerging

05:52technologies, I think we have to be innovative and thoughtful on how to be able to make sure that the

05:56U.S. is continually leading on these technologies. Thank you. I'll have more questions for the record

06:02on that. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Senator Kentwell, and welcome. We are delighted

06:11that you all are here, and congratulations on your nominations.

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