The New England Patriots have hired Mike Vrabel as their next head coach, replacing Jerod Mayo who was fired after one season on the job. Greg Bedard and John Zannis react to the hiring.
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00:00This is the Greg Bidard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles.
00:07All right, welcome in emergency episode of the Greg Bidard Patriots podcast.
00:15John Zanis sitting in for Nick Cattles alongside Greg Bidard and in, I guess, one of the least
00:20surprising stories on the Patriots front here, Mike Vrabel, early Sunday, officially named
00:27as the next head coach.
00:28We're going to hear from Mike Vrabel at a press conference at Gillette Stadium on Monday
00:34at noon.
00:35And again, this felt like it was headed there the whole time, and that's where they arrived.
00:40And that Patriots head coaching search is over.
00:42Vrabel takes over for Gerard Mayo, who was fired after one season and a 4-13 record.
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01:15Let's get to it, Greg.
01:16Your initial reaction to something that you fully expected was, I think you said earlier
01:20on your podcast this week, 99% chance that this was, maybe no, you had 90, I believe,
01:26but really strong likelihood that Vrabel was the guy.
01:30Yeah, I think this is exactly what the Patriots needed.
01:35And I think this is where it was going to go all along.
01:38I mean, the crafts were not going to go, we're not going to fire one first year rookie head
01:45coach and hire another one.
01:47That just wasn't going to happen.
01:49And I think that Mike Vrabel, as a proven track record, somebody that they know, they
01:56have an idea about, they know the way that he coaches, they know his thinking.
02:00It falls very much in line, especially with the Bill Belichick hire that they had after
02:05Pete Carroll.
02:06Bill was a guy who had been in the building that they had talked to, they understand,
02:10they understood how he saw the game.
02:13And I think that Vrabel, and we sort of talked about it before it was known that Mayo had
02:19the succession language, that when you looked at it, if they were moving on from Bill Belichick,
02:23the guy who checked all the boxes in terms of how the crafts operate, I mean, they inherited
02:30Bill Parcells, they hired Pete Carroll, who was a successful defensive coordinator and
02:36had been a head coach with the New York Jets for one season.
02:39Then they hired Bill Belichick, successful defensive coordinator who had been a head
02:44coach with the Cleveland Browns.
02:48Vrabel made all the sense in the world as a former defensive coordinator, successful
02:55head coach with the Tennessee Titans, a guy who came in here and sort of ended the dynasty
03:00by beating the Patriots in the 2019 playoffs here at Gillette.
03:06I just think it's exactly what the Patriots need.
03:09I mean, I love the idea of getting a head coach who, first of all, if the ownership
03:16wasn't terrible in Tennessee, he never would have been fired in Tennessee.
03:19I mean, that's been their decisions in regards to that.
03:23I mean, first of all, firing John Robinson as GM, Vrabel wanted Ryan Cowden as the general
03:30manager, somebody who had been in the building who he had a relationship with.
03:33Amy Strunk-Adams says no, from what I understand from pressure from the league to do a wide
03:40search and they ended on Rand Carthon, a minority candidate, and that was a shotgun marriage.
03:46Those things just don't last, they're not successful.
03:49Vrabel got fired at the end of the next season, even though they fully intended to bring him
03:53back.
03:54Then what do you know, Rand Carthon a year later is now fired and the Titans are doing
04:00the same sort of thing.
04:01They got Bill Callahan as head coach, they're going to have to hire a new GM, all that stuff.
04:08Just in terms of what Vrabel brings, his ability to manage players, his game management, identity
04:20for a football team, you know exactly what you're going to get, a mentally tough football
04:25team, a physically tough football team, you have a coach that always maximizes everything
04:30that he gets out of his roster.
04:33Even that last season, I remember they had a game against the Miami Dolphins and I think
04:39the Dolphins ended up losing like four games in a regular season that year.
04:44Mike Vrabel had like nothing to work with and he beat the Dolphins just on his coaching
04:50ability and that's something that we haven't seen here in a while.
04:55I just think that Mike is absolutely perfect.
04:58I mean look, does he have the highest ceiling perhaps as some other people like a Ben Johnson?
05:04I mean we don't really know, but we know the floor.
05:07I mean the Patriots are always going to be competitive and we've never really seen Mike
05:10Vrabel coach with a quarterback as talented as Drake May and if they can fill in the talent
05:21in the next couple of years, Vrabel should have the most talented team he's ever coached
05:25and I think the ceiling is going to be pretty high down the road.
05:29Well, so that's the thing.
05:30So let's get into the other side.
05:34We'll spend a little time on the interview process, which appeared to be a bit of a sham
05:39in the sense that the Crafts clearly had eyed Vrabel as their guy, but that's not the most
05:45important thing at the moment.
05:46It's really more, really what other choice did they have and the only other serious interview
05:53they did was with Ben Johnson, who is choice du jour now for the last couple of years throughout
06:00the NFL.
06:01He's been extremely selective by who he wanted to talk to, which interviews he would take.
06:08Decided last year, I'm happy in Detroit, I don't even want to explore some of the vacancies
06:13here.
06:14And he is the only other legitimate candidate.
06:16There's a school of thought, and I'm kind of in that school, that you've got one thing
06:22going for you right now, and that's Drake May.
06:24And the most important thing is trying to figure out how far you can take this.
06:28And that offensive-minded coach was really appealing.
06:30Are there question marks with a first-year coach?
06:33Yeah, obviously.
06:34And somebody you have no idea whether he can lead a room.
06:36It's totally different to be able to sit in the back and call plays and do all of those
06:39things versus run the organization, which Vrabel's kind of going to be asked to do here.
06:45But now the offense is going to be in the hands of whomever Vrabel brings in as an offensive
06:49coordinator.
06:50And as we know, those guys leave sometimes.
06:53If you get a really good one, he might not be here for a long time.
06:56And you're always kind of stuck in that cycle.
06:57So is there any merit to the detractors, the Vrabel detractors, who say, man, they should
07:04have taken a shot at ceiling, go for broke here, go big or go home, and bring in a guy
07:09like Johnson?
07:10Yeah, I understand and I respect that school of thought from people, and I get it.
07:18But where the Patriots have been the past couple years, I just didn't think it was wise.
07:25It's too much risk.
07:26They risked enough last year on Jarrod Mayo.
07:30Obviously that was a mistake.
07:31Some people will say he should have been given more time.
07:33Maybe it wasn't a mistake.
07:34And they might be right.
07:35I don't know.
07:36I just think, with a guy like Ben Johnson, your hope is that he's Sean McVay.
07:44And somebody who is ready for it.
07:45He hired a veteran defensive coordinator to bring in him with Wade Phillips, which was
07:52really smart on his behalf.
07:54And I do think Ben Johnson, there are a lot of good traits.
07:58We know he can lead a room because I think if anybody watches the Detroit Lions, not
08:03only are they innovative and really good, and really talented, but they're fairly disciplined.
08:09They do a bunch of different things.
08:11You can't do that unless you have the coaching on the field and in the classroom.
08:16And so I think there's a lot of positive traits for Ben Johnson.
08:21But there's a lot of other offensive gurus that you would have said the same thing about.
08:25For example, Adam Gase, who sort of had the stamp of approval from people like Peyton
08:31Manning and everything else.
08:35And while he had a little bit of success with Ryan Tannehill and the Dolphins down there,
08:44you're risking a lot and not knowing.
08:47It's one thing to manage the offensive side of the ball.
08:49And we've even seen this with, you could say, like Josh McDaniels.
08:53We know he's a good offensive coordinator.
08:56That doesn't mean he's going to be a good head coach.
08:59And some guys have done it.
09:00Some guys haven't.
09:01And I just think that where this franchise is, where it's been, where they hope it's
09:07going, I thought it was way too much risk.
09:10With a guy like...
09:11If Vrabel wasn't out there, fine.
09:12Ben Johnson.
09:13But Mike Vrabel is a guy that you know is going to be a solid double at the very least.
09:21But you know, I just think the guy's a phenomenal coach, phenomenal game coach, relates well
09:29to the players.
09:31He's much different than Bill Belichick.
09:35And I just think this program, they needed stability.
09:40They needed leadership and a known commodity.
09:43And that's Mike Vrabel.
09:44Yeah.
09:45And I thought it was interesting.
09:46I've brought this up before.
09:47I don't know if you agree.
09:48But a part of the Robert Kraft statement when Gerard Mayo was fired said something.
09:53I actually have it right here.
09:57When he joined our coaching staff, leadership was more evident.
10:00I saw how players responded to him.
10:01When other teams started requesting to interview him, I feared I would lose him and committed
10:06to making him our next head coach.
10:08Kind of like, I had to keep Gerard because the pressure was on me.
10:12But also, I had no choice but to hire him because I wrote it into his contract.
10:18When Bill Belichick was fired a year or moved on a year earlier than expected or as part
10:24of the succession plan, I don't think the Patriots knew Mike Vrabel was going to be
10:28available to potentially be a head coach.
10:32And at that point, there really was no way out of the situation they were in.
10:37Gerard Mayo had it kind of inked that he was going to be the guy.
10:40Do you think if that weren't the case, and again, you said Vrabel not expected to be
10:44fired by Tennessee.
10:45There was no reason for him to be let go.
10:48He was doing a good job there, just had a problem with ownership.
10:52If that hadn't been written into Mayo's contract and things just transpired naturally, you
10:55think Vrabel would have been the guy last year?
10:58Yeah, absolutely.
10:59And I think there were people in the building.
11:02And did Kraft have a little bit of like buyer's remorse?
11:04Did he know it going into, do you think like, ah, I got to go with Gerard.
11:08So cross my fingers.
11:09I hope I'm right.
11:11But damn it.
11:12If I knew that this was the case, this was an easy, easy pivot to Vrabel.
11:16Yeah.
11:17I mean, I, yes, I think, I think they would have, I think they would have gone with Vrabel.
11:22I think there was sentiment in the building to, you know, what are we doing?
11:25I mean, we didn't expect this option.
11:27Shouldn't we look at it?
11:28There might've even been some of that suggested within the ownership group, uh, in the form
11:34of Jonathan Kraft being like, dad, are we sure we want to do this?
11:37I mean, we never thought that Vrabel would be available now, now, now look at him.
11:42But I think, um, I think Robert, you know, he had that gut instinct and I think he wanted
11:47to be, um, a man of his word.
11:50One thing, John, I wanted to mention, um, that's, um, interesting, sort of not related
11:55to that, but related to Vrabel and sort of the timeline, there's a rumor in NFL circles.
12:02And again, this is just a rumor.
12:03Uh, there's a rumor in NFL circles that, uh, Vrabel didn't take the Jets interview to pressure
12:11the crafts.
12:12He did it to go and get, uh, background research on, on the Jets, having an idea that he might
12:19be the next Patriots head coach.
12:20I just think that's interesting.
12:22Yeah.
12:23Yeah.
12:24And there's also the report, uh, today with the, uh, he denied, uh, you know, reportedly
12:27denied a Raiders interview request, basically saying like, uh, I know what I'm doing.
12:32I'm going to new England here.
12:33So there really wasn't, you know, there wasn't much guesswork involved here.
12:39All signs kind of pointed towards, I mean, look, I mean, even using Robert's own words
12:44from his press conference where he says when, when he makes a decision, he, uh, whatever
12:48he says, I, he measures nine times and cuts once or whatever.
12:52And, and, you know, there's the, there's the school of thought, and I probably believe
12:57it that, um, they weren't moving on from Gerard Mayo unless they knew or had an idea that
13:04they had something else.
13:05And just using his own words, that seems to be the case.
13:08Yeah.
13:09And again, you wonder how long ago that happened, you know, a lot of people, because again,
13:14the reporting with this, just the way it went down was the crafts don't want to move
13:19on from Mayo.
13:20They want to see him succeed there, but they never came out and publicly declared it.
13:24So you have to figure they knew they had this in their back pocket, you know, and back-channeled,
13:29you know, some sort of communication was able to like, you're good, right?
13:34Yeah.
13:35Yeah.
13:36Yeah.
13:37I'm good.
13:38Let's let's do this.
13:39And, and that was that, uh, which kind of led to the interview process being what it was
13:41probably an embarrassment that they could have avoided if they just played it a little
13:45bit differently versus throat to throw away interviews at the beginning of it.
13:50And then really only the other two guys, you know, that, that, that were, that were under
13:53consideration.
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15:19You mentioned it earlier and I think it's an important part of this is what happens
15:22next.
15:24The first thing, and this is being reported now, Ryan Cowden will join the front office
15:27in some capacity.
15:29It's expected Elliott Wolf will remain again.
15:31We talked about this, Greg, immediately after the Robert Kraft press conference, what that
15:35means.
15:36Will Wolf stay on?
15:37Kraft did say yes, but didn't go as far as to say he will continue to run the personnel
15:43department, though it is assumed he is still going to be in a position of authority.
15:47But like, can this, everybody guessed Brable's going to bring in a guy with him and a lot
15:53of signs pointed to it being this guy.
15:57How does this work?
15:58Like I can't see a world in which you've got one faction, you know, entrenched in the building
16:03and another one coming in and collaborating.
16:06I know they wanted to get rid of silos, but isn't this just tailor made for dysfunction
16:11if you don't just eventually move off of the old and into the new and say, Mike and his
16:19guy are going to kind of run things and your input is valuable.
16:23But I can't like, is Elliott Wolf really going to be the final decider still on what
16:29goes on with this team?
16:30Is he being stripped of any of this?
16:32And if so, how could he possibly remain?
16:34No, but I, from what I understand, and this was sort of like during the negotiating process
16:41with Brable, and I don't know where it came out and we'll be trying to find that out in
16:45the next couple of days.
16:48Regardless of what Kraft says tomorrow, what Vrabel says about a final say and things like
16:55that.
16:56And then I wouldn't be surprised if they talked around it and then we press Robert a little
17:00bit more at the, at the league meetings.
17:04I think that Vrabel is going to have the final say on everything.
17:08I really, I think they're going to go to a strong head coach model and I think that's
17:13going to be Vrabel.
17:14And as far as, you know, Ryan Cowden reportedly coming in from Charles Robinson of Yahoo and
17:24Elliott Wolf, these are the way things typically go in the NFL when you, it's, you know, and
17:32there's a bunch of different reasons and people handle it differently, but I don't think it's
17:36a big deal.
17:37It's just like, I didn't think it was a big deal when Robert Kraft said that Elliott Wolf
17:41is going to stay on and blah, blah, blah.
17:43And of course everybody reacted and got all out of their heads.
17:47I don't think it's a big deal.
17:48I think that Elliott Wolf, especially when you're dealing with a guy like Elliott Wolf
17:53who really works well with people, has been a number two in different places.
18:00I think that, I think they will figure it out.
18:02And at the end of the day, I think that Vrabel is going to listen to everybody.
18:07And I think that largely the front office is going to stay intact, which I don't have
18:11an issue with.
18:12You know, we'll see with, I don't really have an opinion on macro, but I know like Elliott
18:18Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith, Pat Stewart, all those guys have been around the league.
18:22They're experienced, they're qualified for their jobs and they would be great people
18:27to have in your personnel department.
18:29I think at the end of the day, when the Patriots make these decisions, it's going to be a group.
18:34Mike's going to listen to everybody.
18:36He might lean on Ryan Cowden a little bit more, but that doesn't mean that there's dysfunction
18:43or there's an issue.
18:45I think they can figure it out.
18:46They're all professionals.
18:47That's the biggest thing.
18:49All of these guys are professionals and experienced.
18:51From Vrabel to Cowden to Wolf to Highsmith, Pat Stewart, these guys are professionals.
18:58They can figure it out and get the job done for the New England Patriots.
19:01Sure, they can.
19:03Now that you've gotten a taste of sugar, you've been at the top, you've been the guy who kind
19:10of had the final say.
19:12Can you take a back seat again and be effective?
19:14Can you do this without being like, well, that's his guy and that's my guy?
19:19You already saw a little bit of finger pointing from Wolf to Mayo, Mayo to Wolf, just in terms
19:24of, well, my guys didn't develop as I had hoped with the draft picks and other people
19:28maybe feeling that those guys really weren't that good to begin with.
19:33I got handed this pile of shit coming in here.
19:38Isn't that a problem?
19:40Isn't that a potential problem here if you've got one side and the other?
19:45When things go well, I'm sure you can work together and play nice in the sandbox.
19:49But if it goes to hell, I don't see how that can work.
19:57It's valid.
20:00Just for an example, the Buffalo Bills, when Sean McDermott got hired, Doug Whaley was
20:04still the general manager and he went through the whole off season and they actually sort
20:08of nailed it.
20:09They knocked that off season out of the park.
20:12And eventually they brought in Brandon Bean to be general manager.
20:17I mean, look, I think that my understanding or my belief from talking to people, and no
20:23one's told me this directly, but this is just my feeling, is that Robert, and you get this
20:27with a lot of NFL owners, they say, you know, why don't you give these guys a chance and
20:33see how it works?
20:34And if it works, great.
20:36If it doesn't, then at some point in time, Elliott Wolfe and others will depart and Vrabel
20:42will go forward sort of shaping the organization in what he wants.
20:48So yeah, I mean, I think it's a little, I think it's a little overblown, especially,
20:55you know, with Vrabel, my belief is that he will ultimately be in charge.
21:00All right.
21:01Let's, let's rip through offensive coordinator candidates.
21:04It's been discussed and I think you've thrown it out there as well.
21:07Josh McDaniels is a guy who might already be attached or at least as a name that's out
21:11there.
21:12Is there any, anything real regarding the McDaniels smoke here as, as, as far as joining
21:19Mike Vrabel?
21:20And if not, are there other names that you think are, that you know, are on the radar
21:26or you think should be?
21:29Do I think there's smoke?
21:30Yes.
21:31I think there's some smoke.
21:32How much?
21:34I'm not really sure.
21:35This is sort of when those things really get going after the hiring.
21:40I know McDaniels has had overtures from, you know, other teams in the league looking for
21:46offensive coordinators.
21:47I mean, currently the Browns and the Seahawks have those jobs open.
21:52Well, there will be more, you know, once people get hired as, as head coaches.
21:57McDaniels has a relationship with Ben Johnson.
22:02So you know, that's another option.
22:05I had the feeling that the crafts would love to see Josh McDaniels back and probably have
22:11suggested that to Mike Vrabel.
22:15I think, I think it would be the best of both worlds.
22:18I think it would be a great thing for Drake May.
22:21It would be from, you know, we've seen Josh's ability to, to, to develop quarterbacks.
22:26I think the biggest thing that if I were the head coach in New England Patriots or the
22:31owner, the biggest things going forward now, once I had the head coaches, I want an
22:36offensive coordinator who knows how to develop quarterbacks and can direct an
22:43offense and call plays.
22:46There aren't many people that can do that at a high level.
22:50I also want somebody with longevity and, you know, Josh McDaniels, given his recent
22:57history, I think it's safe to assume he's not leaving to become a head coach
23:00anytime soon.
23:02And to, and he also, you get somebody who's done it, who was basically head coach offense
23:07for Bill Belichick in the latter stages, that frees up Mike Vrabel to, you know, think
23:14up crap to do during the game, to screw with other coaches, to get involved with the
23:19defense and all that stuff.
23:20So to me, I think Josh McDaniels is a great option.
23:24I think look what he did for, you know, Matt Castle, Matt Jones, Jimmy Garoppolo,
23:30even when they had Jacoby Brissette, the ability to game plan and even what he got
23:35out of Cam Newton, who couldn't even throw the ball to win games that year during COVID.
23:41I think he's just, I think he's excellent at his job and would be great.
23:45Other people, let's see, you know, they have to go, they have to go through a process.
23:56So yeah, just so, so people who have also interviewed, so Seattle's interviewed Thomas
24:02Brown, who was the interim Bears OC, Hank Fraley, the Lions offensive line coach.
24:08The Browns have interviewed Tommy Reese, who's internal past Brown's past game, Charles London,
24:14Seahawks QB coach.
24:17Now Tommy Reese is going to be an interesting name that brought up.
24:22Yeah, because they were together in Cleveland.
24:25I was also put Chad O'Shea into that group, who is the, who has been here, who knows this
24:34offense, who was an offensive coordinator for the, for the Dolphins under Brian Flores for
24:38one year before he got fired.
24:40Chad has a really good reputation around the league.
24:43Receivers, coach, passing game coordinator with the Browns currently.
24:47Yeah.
24:48Tom, my issue with Tommy Reese and Chad O'Shea and a lot of these guys that I'm going to
24:53talk about, they, they haven't been NFL quarterback coaches and you can say you're going to go
25:00get a good quarterback coach, but you know, really it's about the offensive coordinator
25:06has to be synced up with, with the, with the quarterback.
25:09Other guys I think that they would look at and they have to do a search by the Rooney
25:13rule Clint Kubiak, Saints OC who could be let go or retained with what they're going
25:19on there.
25:20I think, I think he's really good.
25:22Mike Kaley, the Rams tight ends, pass game coordinator.
25:26Again, he has no, he doesn't have the first clue about how to coach a quarterback even
25:31though he has a good resume.
25:33Brian Florey, 49ers tight ends coach.
25:35Another guy who hasn't coached quarterbacks, Dave Ragone, Rams QBs coach.
25:41He could be that type of guy.
25:43Jake Pete Seahawks pass game, Marcus Brady chargers pass game and Josh McCown Vikings
25:49quarterbacks coach.
25:50Of course, the former NFL coach, all of those guys are worthwhile talking to.
25:56But not many have the expertise as a Josh McDaniels.
26:00So could you see a world in which you bring in a non Josh McDaniels guy who doesn't have
26:05the quarterback coaching background and somehow figure out a way to retain Alex van Pelt in
26:10a different role?
26:12Because if there's one thing that kind of sort of worked, it isn't necessarily Alex
26:18van Pelt's play calling or how he ran an offense, but how he helped develop Drake May
26:25to get to the point that he was ahead of where a lot of people thought he'd be when he first
26:31took the field.
26:32I don't know how much credit you think van Pelt deserves, but is there a world in which
26:36he gets saved here and is kind of put in a different position?
26:40Might he accept it?
26:42And would you favor that?
26:45I mean, I would be open to it.
26:47It depends on if there's a scheme message, marriage.
26:53You're not going to put Alex van Pelt with, say, a Josh McDaniels or somebody who doesn't
27:01run the West Coast offense.
27:04So you know, and plus you're talking about Alex van Pelt having to swallow an awful lot
27:11of pride to stay in the building and just as a quarterback's coach.
27:16So I would tend, I would tend to doubt that.
27:19Yeah.
27:20Is there anyone who's like, can you see, is this a clean sweep of the coaching staff?
27:27Not necessarily.
27:28I think a lot of people could survive on the defensive side of the ball.
27:34You know, you know, we'll see about Covington.
27:37I mean, that's possible.
27:39Mayo might look Mayo, sorry, 40 and slip.
27:44You know, it's possible that Brable sits down with these guys and he's like, you know
27:50what?
27:51I really liked DeMarcus Covington and me working with him, like I'm going to take them to the
27:56next level.
27:58Something that Gerard couldn't do.
27:59I can do that.
28:00It's what I did in Tennessee.
28:02It's what I did with Shane Bowen.
28:05You know, really brought him along and you know, you could see that.
28:11You know, I do think that there are, there are good coaches on this team, especially
28:17on the defensive side.
28:18You know, Brian Belichick could stick.
28:21Mike Pellegrino has been a good coach.
28:25You know, I will see about Jerry Montgomery and Drew Wilkins.
28:28I don't think those outside hires melded really well this year, but we'll have to see ultimate.
28:34I mean, Jerry Montgomery certainly has a reputation.
28:39Who knows?
28:40Probably not.
28:41Yeah.
28:42Yeah.
28:43But we have to realize that Brable is going to have a lot of input and ability to help
28:47coaches that Gerard just never could do.
28:51So that's kind of my next question on that is like, what's going to be, what can you,
28:58what do we know?
28:59Because so much is unclear personnel who's making the decisions.
29:03We're not entirely sure, but there's going to be, as you, as you kind of surmise, Brable's
29:10going to be at the top of that pyramid and what type of players he's going to help bring
29:13in here alongside whoever's helping him to, you know, TBD, offensive coordinator.
29:18We don't know who that's going to be yet, but you do know some things about Brable and
29:22that's the type of leader slash coach.
29:25He's going to be walking through the door.
29:28How different is it going to be from what Mayo brought and carried out throughout the
29:32entire year versus what Vrabel is going to be like for that locker room, for the coaches,
29:38for everybody else starting day one, it's going to be very different.
29:43And, and, you know, these people who think that this is just another Patriots hire and
29:48they can't, it's harkens back to the glory days and all that stuff.
29:52It's complete BS.
29:53I mean, yes, Mike Vrabel was a, was a player here and a damn good player, and he's in the
29:58Patriots hall of fame and that's awesome.
30:01But as a coach, he's been, you know, all over the place from being with Bill O'Brien
30:05in Houston to Ohio state, you know, his, his different background.
30:12He's his own guy and it's going to be different, but basically you're getting, I would say
30:18you're getting a, a melding of Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells in terms of you're getting
30:26the intellect, the game management, how he sees the game, you're getting that.
30:30But in terms of his ability to relate to players, push the right buttons be personable.
30:39You know, that's something that, that Bill Parcells did really well.
30:42That's not something that Bill Belichick really did.
30:45You know, I think that, I think that he's, he's off the charts in terms of that.
30:51One thing I wanted to read, this was from a quote I got from a AFC East personnel executive.
30:57He said about Vrabel, very good football coach, good football intellect, good with
31:01situational football, good end game manager, manager knows how he wants the team to look
31:06and play and kinds of players he wants, credible with players, honest and direct communicator,
31:12developed his players when he coached position groups, teams had a presence of toughness.
31:18And you know, you hear people like Ben Jones talked, a former Titans center talked with
31:24Mike Giardi over at BSJ this week about, you know, how Mike relates to the players
31:29and, and you know, really looks out for them and understands what's going on with them.
31:35That's something you never got from Bill.
31:37You know, not really, maybe a little bit in his latter stages, but he brings instant credibility
31:42and the players are going to like them.
31:44They're going to play for him and you get all the experience that he had.
31:48Plus one thing I love is that this is a guy who never stopped working his one year off
31:53after he got fired.
31:54What'd he do?
31:55He went to Cleveland and he coached tight ends and offensive lines.
31:58And he was in, and he learned how the Browns melded analytics with their football staff.
32:04And so, you know, he's always just, he's adding to it.
32:08And that to me, that says he's going to be a better coach, even better coach the second
32:12time around.
32:13So that's, so that's interesting to me because I think, you know, it's definitely a bit of
32:18a misnomer, the idea that it's just like a Patriots retread higher because he's not, as
32:22you said, from the Belichick coaching tree, he played here.
32:26And since then Ohio state, the Texans, you know, served as a head coach and then his
32:31last night with Cleveland.
32:32But the other one is, you know, one of the knocks or people talk about is kind of traditional
32:37old school coach more, you know, likes to run the ball, smash mouth, be strong upfront,
32:41all of that stuff.
32:42Plus it, what was described as maybe an under reliance on analytics in his time as Tennessee.
32:49So he goes here.
32:50And then there was a piece in the athletic recently about like, you really learned a
32:53lot here.
32:54Like, do you believe that there was a change in terms of perception and understanding just
32:59from one year spending time with the analytics department of the Cleveland Browns to the
33:04point that it's going to change his overall approach and philosophy, because you're bringing
33:08in a guy who maybe didn't lean heavily on that stuff to begin with into an organization
33:13that doesn't do it at all and has one of the most underdeveloped departments here.
33:17Is there any belief that he's going to come in and be like, we're going bananas with this
33:21shit analytics everywhere.
33:23Let's do it.
33:24Or it's going to be a little bit more of the same with a, I see what they're saying with
33:28that stuff and I'm going to lean on it a little more, but I'm not all the way in.
33:35I mean, I don't think there's going to be a huge departure, but I think, you know, Mike
33:39probably took a step back and, you know, really analyze where maybe his shortcomings were
33:44and look to, uh, you know, make up for those, um, you know, but I do think, you know, to
33:52the people that just look at Mike Rabel in Tennessee and what he did and Derrick Henry
33:58and running the ball and, you know, conservative offense, I mean, what the hell did you want
34:03him to do?
34:04I mean, you know, look, the Ravens last night with Lamar Jackson, who could be a three-time
34:09MVP, uh, first team all pro quarterback last night in their playoff game against the Steelers.
34:16Guess what they did.
34:17They ran the crap out of the ball because that's where they had an advantage.
34:21And you know, Mike Rabel is going to take whatever he has, whatever he has as an advantage.
34:25I mean, when you have Ryan Tannehill and five other quarterbacks, I mean, he inherited Marcus
34:30Mariota and Derrick Henry.
34:34How do you think you're going to move the ball offensively?
34:36And they invested a lot in their offensive line.
34:39Their offensive line, the running back gave them an advantage against other teams.
34:43That doesn't mean that's the way he wants to play.
34:45I'm sure he does, but you know, he's going to have the ability to do both.
34:50But I think Mike Rabel, if anything, has proven over his career that he is going to take exactly
34:55what he has and maximize it.
34:58And he'll play whatever way he needs to, to win that particular game.
35:03So that's it.
35:04Mike Rabel hired as the next head coach of the Patriots.
35:06There'll be more news and developments, I'm sure kind of trickling out, possibly even,
35:11you know, throughout the day here, but our first chance to talk to Mike Rabel and, you
35:17know, potentially Robert Kraft again about the decision to hire him tomorrow, I would
35:22say Monday at noon.
35:24Last thing I want to hit you on here, something people don't love the process of getting here.
35:32Rabel might have been the right choice, no matter what, even if you went through the
35:35process.
35:36But the Patriots did not.
35:39They interviewed four head coaching candidates, two of whom were not realistic.
35:44Many people assume to satisfy the Rooney rule, did it in a sloppy, you know, manner.
35:52And then really only one interview with Ben Johnson over Zoom, three hours with really
35:58no way to get a true sense of what type of coach he might be without the ability to follow
36:03up.
36:04So the first to fire and the first to hire, does the process bother you at all?
36:09Could more have been gained from doing it the right way, the way most other teams do
36:16it, whether it's a search firm or whether it's a personnel guy first, or just simply
36:21let's cast a wide net and listen to outside perspectives.
36:25Or again, I know it in my gut, this is my guy, I could never be wrong about something
36:30like that, even though I did the same exact thing last year and hired somebody who was
36:34really the only person I ever considered for the position.
36:37No, I don't give a crap about the process.
36:41I really don't.
36:43You know, I understand the Rooney rule.
36:45I understand why it's there.
36:47But look, if I'm an owner and this is my billion dollar business, I don't really give a crap.
36:52Especially when there's a guy that I know who's a really good coach and we know him
36:56and we know what he's all about.
36:58In some respects, you have to respect them because they didn't really waste anybody's
37:04time and three hours for Ben Johnson, but whatever.
37:09And here's the other thing about the Patriots and listening to other people.
37:15They should have done that a year ago if they're really making a departure after Bill, whatever.
37:21In business, and we all know the crafts are from business, there's two ways to acquire
37:25knowledge.
37:27One is to go out and talk to everybody and get everybody, bring in teachers who are going
37:34to teach everybody that.
37:35Or you go out and you buy it and you bring it in and they teach.
37:39So Mike Rables from the outside, Elliott Wolfe from the outside, two different organizations.
37:45Alonzo Highsmith has been on the outside, two different organizations and the University
37:50of Miami.
37:51Pat Stewart has been with the Eagles and the Panthers.
37:54So these guys, and I will say those guys in the front office, have been moving to make
37:58the Patriots into a more modern operation.
38:02And now you got Rable, who's in Cleveland, who's done different ways in Tennessee.
38:08All that stuff's coming in.
38:09So they're, you know, yeah, have they talked to Kyle Shanahan disciples and stuff like
38:15that?
38:16No.
38:17But I think I don't have a problem with the process.
38:21It is what it is.
38:24They arrived where they wanted to arrive.
38:25I think it's the right thing for this organization.
38:28And now we'll see what happens.
38:30All right.
38:31So we will see what happens more on the Mike Rable hire, again, brought in as the Patriots
38:38next head coach to replace Gerard Mayo, who was let go after one really disappointing
38:45four and 13 year.
38:47Again, more from Greg Bedard on Patriots press pass in the CLNS media, but also, of course,
38:53Boston sports journal, subscribe right now to Boston sports journal, 50 bucks a year.
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40:00What time is it?
40:01Greg?
40:02It's game time.
40:03Game time.
40:04Game time.
40:05So again, thank you guys for hanging out tons of stuff throughout the day on the Patriots
40:09Press Pass YouTube channel.
40:11So make sure that you keep it here with a bunch of people chiming in with their reports
40:15as well.
40:17And we will have more for you tomorrow.
40:19Take care.