- 22/12/2024
Phil Smith analyses Sunderland's win over Norwich City and answers questions from readers
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00:00Morning everyone and welcome to the latest edition of On The Whistle where we have yet
00:13another Sunderland comeback win to talk about. Four games in a row now, Sunderland have fallen
00:18behind first in fair play and then they've managed to win three of those and take a point
00:22from the other. I think it's fair to say we would like to see them make faster starts
00:26in games but I think that tells you a lot about the character and resilience to be fair
00:30and also the quality of course to the players in the group. So a 2-1 win over Norwich City
00:33yesterday, goals from Dan Ballard and Joe Bellingham after Anis Lemani opened the scoring
00:39for Norwich City. I have to say that it was a scrappy game than I'd anticipated and I
00:44think to be honest I thought Sunderland were well short of their best, albeit in tricky
00:48conditions. I think that was a long way from the best performance we've seen from Sunderland
00:52either at home or away this season. To be fair, the first half I was impressed with
00:59Norwich. I thought that they were quite brave at times in the way they played out from the
01:03back and I thought that they did it well. I think you could sense through most of the
01:07first half that Sunderland's press wasn't quite working. Norwich were just a bit sharper,
01:11a bit quicker. They were playing through that kind of press and they were finding some space
01:14on the break. I think you've got to give them a lot of credit for that. We've seen teams
01:18like Sheffield Wednesday being one obvious example who've really struggled to play through
01:22Sunderland's press and who Sunderland blew away inside the opening half an hour. I thought
01:26Norwich came with quite a sort of brave strategy and for a while it paid off for them. I thought
01:31that Sunderland didn't really get going. I think the fact that they didn't have a shot
01:35on target in the first half was a fair reflection of, yeah OK Norwich weren't necessarily creating
01:39chance after chance. Anthony Paterson obviously made one really, really good save shortly
01:43before Norwich's opening goal but it wasn't like he was too involved. But I thought Norwich
01:48were having the better of the game and they felt very comfortable and very happy with
01:51where they were at half-time. I thought we immediately saw an improvement of course
01:55and I'm not just saying that because Sunderland scored a goal after half-time. I thought the
01:58energy was better. They were more aggressive. From speaking to Regis Lebris and Lico 9 after
02:03the game, it doesn't sound like there was anything particularly dramatic said in the
02:07dressing room at half-time. I think it was just a bit of an honest chat about the fact
02:11that Sunderland hadn't really imposed themselves on the game, that the quality hadn't been
02:14good enough and I think the quite clear message from Lebris was, look it was up to us. It's
02:19purely up to us and what we do, whether we turn this game around. I think to be fair,
02:23although the second half wasn't really a vintage performance, I thought it was much better
02:27and you always felt after Ballard's goal that Sunderland were the more likely team to go
02:31on winning. Interestingly speaking to the Norwich City boss who spoke really well after
02:36the game, he said that he felt one of the main things, and I thought this was quite
02:39interesting from a Sunderland perspective, was that he felt his team had much better
02:42control of the first half. Something that I spoke about, the way they played through
02:46the press, the way that they really struggled to stop Sunderland. They were one of those
02:50teams, they were quite brave in playing out from the back but when they lost the ball
02:52they retreated very quickly into their low block and I think you could see that Sunderland
02:56were struggling to play through that. His view was that the second half became too open.
03:01He was really frustrated that his team lost control. He almost felt, reading between the
03:04lines, that they got sucked into an open game where Sunderland's wide players suddenly had
03:09space where it was about 1v1 duels. It was interesting him saying that he felt that Sunderland
03:13clearly had the advantage in that kind of game. Quite interesting I think because there
03:17was a time when we were talking about Sunderland as a technically very, very strong team but
03:21maybe who were physically a little bit lacking at this level. I think what we're beginning
03:25to see now, that is no longer the case. Players like Ballard, Mepham, O'Neill very obviously,
03:29Job in midfield, Dan Neal, that part of his game is improving so much, even Isidore up
03:34front. So yeah, interesting listening to both the managers talk through the game and what
03:38changed after half-time. I think if we're brutally honest, it felt from pretty early
03:43on like it was going to be a game where the referee was going to have a massive say. I
03:46thought the officiating was quite erratic throughout, unpredictable decision-making.
03:52I felt you'd lost control of the game about midway through the first half. I think it
03:58felt in the second half like there was always going to be a decision that potentially decided
04:01the game. I don't think you can have any complaints with the actual second yellow that was shown
04:05to Jose Cordova and actually the Norwich City boss after the game in his post-match press
04:09conference said he had no issues with that decision whatsoever. It was some of the other
04:12decisions. I think to be honest, I think both teams could point to a lot of decisions
04:16through the game that they felt were unusual or incorrect. So I think Sunderland kind of
04:21got the rub of the green on that one in terms of I think the big decision was always going
04:25to be made to affect the game and it just so happened that it fell in Sunderland's favour.
04:30And actually Norwich responded fairly well to coming behind in front with 10 men. Obviously
04:34a big save from Anthony Patterson to tip Ashley Barnes' shot onto the post to protect the
04:38three points. So not a vintage Sunderland performance. There was certainly no attempts
04:43to over-hype it from Regis Lebris. Afterwards, he said he had kind of a balanced feeling
04:48after the game because he knew that the performance wasn't great but he also said, look, winning
04:52is the most important thing. It's not always about tactics. It's sometimes about character
04:56and mentality. And I think what we've seen in the last few weeks is that Sunderland have
05:00a lot of that. And I think Jobe embodies that, his mentality, I think his first rate and
05:05really good to see him back on the goal trail as well. I think he's been going through a
05:09little period where obviously this season he's playing a little bit deeper. He has more
05:12defensive responsibilities out of possession than he did last season when he was either
05:15playing up front or was a very attacking No. 10. He's playing more as an eight this year
05:19and out of possession he basically turns into a six next to Dan Neil pretty much. And I
05:23think there's been a period of adjustment where he's been trying to balance that with
05:27trying to sort of have that, getting those goalscoring areas where he was so effective
05:31last season. And hopefully, albeit his goal yesterday came from a set-piece, hopefully
05:35over the last couple of weeks, some signs that he's finding ways to sort of crash the
05:38box again and get into those really close range areas where we've seen that actually
05:42he's got a real goalscoring knack, which is a pretty priceless commodity in this division
05:46as we all know. So yeah, really important win, if not a brilliant performance, but that's
05:50okay. Sometimes in the championship, we all know it can be a real grind. So I'm going
05:54to get into your questions now because there's plenty of them. Thanks so much for sending
05:59them in. We'll have a few minutes chatting through these. I'm just going to have a little
06:03sip of coffee before I do so.
06:05So we've got a question from Zeus Stelix. Thanks for sending another question in. Always
06:10good to hear from you. Who says, what do you think was changed at halftime to spur us on
06:14to win? To me, it seemed like we pushed up higher and were more aggressive in the press
06:17second half. Also, 10 points won from losing positions in the last four games shows great
06:21resilience in the team to bounce back.
06:23Yeah, I think everyone would agree with that. As we said, ideally, someone will stop conceding
06:27sort of sloppy goals early in games. When I spoke to Dan Neil after Swansea, he said
06:31they'd had a conversation in the dressing room where they'd said, you know, the comeback
06:34win was brilliant and credit to us for kind of almost producing that. But we also need
06:38to start games faster because it will catch up with us eventually. I think the dressing
06:42room are under no illusions that they can't keep giving the team head start in games.
06:46So yes, brilliant that they were able to dig it out yesterday. But I definitely think it's
06:49a big sort of thing behind the scenes where they know they can't keep giving teams an
06:53advantage, especially not with sloppy goals like set-piece goals. But as you say, you
06:57know, great resilience, I think in the group. I think we've all seen that all these players
07:01that are playing pretty much from minute one to 90 and giving everything for the shirt.
07:04And, you know, I know that some of the supporters will say that's the main thing they always
07:07ask for. So great to see that. In terms of half-time, as I mentioned, I don't think it
07:11was a huge sort of tactical thing, really. It sounds like it was just a bit of an honest
07:16chat about, you know, how someone had kind of fallen short of the levels, maybe some
07:19small tactical details, but nothing particularly significant. I have to say as well, it sounds
07:23like simplistic analysis. I do think the conditions are a big factor. I don't think it's a coincidence
07:28that the wind was blowing towards the north stand and that the team who was sort of attacking
07:33in that direction was in the ascendancy in both halves. I thought it was a fairly significant
07:37factor in the game. I think you could see at times in the first half with Anthony Paterson,
07:40he really struggled with his kicking because of the conditions. I think you could see that
07:43someone struggled to get up the pitches as fluently as they normally do. I do think it
07:47was a bit of a factor. I think the fact that someone had the wind in the second half helped
07:51them get a little bit higher up the pitches you mentioned and maybe put Norwich Under
07:54a bit more pressure on the ball than they'd been able to in the first half. So I don't
07:58think, whereas it's Swansea, it sounds like, as I explained on the last video, there was
08:02a specific tactical issue that they had to address. I don't think it was as clear as
08:05that this week. I think there were maybe some small details, but I think it was just almost
08:09taking a breather and just sort of acknowledging that they'd fallen short of what they can
08:13do and sort of putting that right. And obviously, you know, goals change games massively. I think
08:18to score so quickly after halftime completely changed the complexion of the game. I always
08:23felt like it was going to be a tall task for Norwich from there, and that was even
08:26before the red card, as I mentioned.
08:27A couple of questions on the ref. Shiny Tom says, not really into ref bashing as it's
08:32a very hard job, but this game seemed too big for the ref to date. Most of our bookings
08:36were self-inflicted with a lot of petulance, but he was incredibly inconsistent and we
08:40won despite him. It was obvious both teams weren't finishing with 11 men. Josh says,
08:44is that the worst refereeing performance for both sides in practice in decades?
08:47Look, yeah, we don't talk much about the referees on the whistle or even really too much over
08:52on the echo because I think it's an incredibly difficult job. And as Labrie said afterwards,
08:57it's very easy to do in hindsight, to make decisions in real time at sort of full speed
09:01is much more challenging. So I think we always have to acknowledge that. But I do think that
09:05you never want the referee to be a key actor in the game, is how I would describe it. And
09:09yesterday I felt like he was probably the most influential person on the pitch in terms
09:13of the game, which is not where you want the game to be. And I thought some of the decision
09:16making was, as I say, inconsistent for both sides, as has rightly been pointed out there.
09:21I think Norwich can feel aggrieved as well, not so much with the actual second yellow
09:24card, because as I said, I thought that was the right decision. But I thought the general
09:27standard of refereeing for both sides, I think, was too inconsistent. I don't think there
09:33was a level of control you want to see over the game. So for sure, a big factor. And I
09:38think having played so well in the first half and showed what they can do as a team, I think
09:42Norwich will be leaving feeling pretty aggrieved themselves. And I can totally understand that.
09:48Ian says, can we put to bed this awful crack of Job is only rated because of his brother.
09:52Lad is an absolute Rolls Royce of the play and it's just getting better and better. Also
09:56unbelievable resilience from the lads. Last four games go behind win three, draw one,
10:00as we've discussed before. Completely agree. Yeah, I think the Job thing, I think that
10:04was more of a last season thing, I think, where you can see specifically outside of
10:07Sunderland, there was a lot more chat of he's only kind of rated because of his brother.
10:11I think that what we're seeing this season is, I think, as you rightly point out, Job
10:15is now... We all kind of knew watching Job last year that there was something very, very
10:19special there, as we mentioned, particularly his goal scoring in a team in the second half
10:23of last season that was doing very poorly. We could see there was really something special
10:28of his own. There were definitely times when his performance levels dipped, where a lot
10:32of us felt that he maybe needed a rest, probably inevitably in his first season in professional
10:36football. But I think that we all knew that player was there. And I think maybe outside
10:40there was that perception that, oh, you know, maybe it's not just about, you know, maybe
10:43because of the name, why he's getting this hype. I think what we're seeing this season
10:46is, I think everybody, you know, outside of Sunderland is starting to see who watches
10:50the championship, that Job is a special player in his own right for his age, his mentality,
10:55his athleticism. I think you see it week in, week out. Now, the last 10, 15 minutes of
10:59games, he's always one of the strongest players on the pitch, which I think is remarkable
11:03when you consider he's basically playing every minute. I know he had a short break when he
11:07had that suspension, but otherwise he's been ever present. And I think that's something
11:10that really marks him out. But I think you also see his mentality is really top job.
11:16And the big thing, as I said before, is there's not many players when there's actual strikers
11:20or midfielders who have a knack of being in the right place to score goals. We haven't
11:23seen that as much from Job this season because he's been adjusting, as I said, to that slightly
11:27more withdrawn role. But now that he's starting to put that back into his game as well, I
11:30think we're talking about a really unique player. I've said it before, my personal opinion
11:35is I think Sunderland are going to have to get promoted this year if they want to keep
11:38Job because I think that the bids and the calibre of club who are going to be looking
11:42to sign him next summer if Sunderland don't go up, I think is going to be pretty significant.
11:46Obviously, that's looking a long way ahead. But yeah, I think that is starting to change.
11:52I think the perception outside of Sunderland is starting to change. I think people are
11:54starting to wake up to how good Job is on his own two feet. I completely agree with
11:58you. Absolute Rolls Royce for the player, getting better and better. I think he's really
12:01stepped up this season and I actually think it's easy to forget how young he is because
12:05of the stature that he's sort of performing with every week.
12:10So what else have we got? My friends from the German Blackhats, how lovely to hear from
12:18you. Thanks for sending your question in. It says, good morning, Phil. Is Mienda the
12:21better striker option at the moment? Will we sign a striker in January? Yeah, so it's
12:26really interesting. I mean, I have to be honest, I really like Wilson Isidor. I think that
12:31I know that he's now, I think it's six or seven games without a goal. I don't have the
12:36exact number at hand, so apologies for that. But it's six or seven. I think that the situation
12:40is completely different to last season, to be honest, where I felt like Sunderland strikers
12:45weren't making any impression on the game. It wasn't just that they weren't scoring goals.
12:51It was they weren't getting chances. They weren't contributing to the build-up play.
12:54They weren't contributing to the out-of-possession press. I really like Wilson Isidor because
12:58I think that no matter what, you get a certain level of performance out of him, whether or
13:02not he's scoring goals. And that is Harry and the opposition defenders making runs into
13:06the channel. Don't forget, it was a really nice little touch to tee up Mienda for the
13:10cross back to Ballard to score the equalising goal. That was from Isidor. Yes, he missed
13:15his big chance, which he should have scored and he'd be so frustrated when he ran through
13:19on goal. But again, good centre-forward play, spot the opportunity and sort of streak clear.
13:24I like Isidor and I think the most significant thing is you don't need to worry too much
13:27about my opinion, do you? But Labrice loves him. And yet again, after the game yesterday,
13:32I said it's just a matter of time. The goal is coming. I like what Isidor brings to the
13:35team all round. He's a really important part of what I do. Couldn't have been more clear
13:40in his backing of Isidor. You can read the quotes over on the Sunday Echo website.
13:45So to be honest, I don't see that changing too much any time soon. I'll be at Isidor
13:49car and play every single game over the festive period. It's too much. So we will have to
13:53be rested at some point. What you do then, I think the reality is at the moment, I think
13:57Meander is too important out wide. Really liked Eliza Meander's performance yesterday.
14:01I thought he was by a distance someone's best player in the first half. I know he can be
14:04frustrating because it doesn't always come off, but I think his ability consistently
14:08to get past players, to open up space, I think is really unique. I love that he just keeps
14:14going through games, keeps always trying to make things happen. A really good performance.
14:17I thought he was unlucky not to score today. You can see how dangerous he is through the
14:20middle when the game breaks open and he's got space to run into behind the opposition
14:24defence. But I think he's doing well out wide and I think with the injury situation
14:28as it is, I think he's too important to move from those kind of wide positions. So I think
14:34Isidor will continue for now. Interestingly, I asked Lebris about Aaron Connolly on Thursday
14:38and he spoke really well about him. Described how when he came into the club, obviously
14:42after a really difficult time, he sort of had a really, really strong start, which obviously
14:47culminated in that goal against Millwall. Read between the lines a little bit. I think
14:51Lebris then feels as if there was a little bit of a dip, which maybe explains why we
14:55haven't seen too much of him of late. But what he also said was he's had a really good
14:58sort of week, 10 days recently in training where he'd been really impressed with Connolly
15:02and feels he's getting back to that level that he saw from when he first came into the
15:05club. So I think that's probably one to watch. As I say, Isidor can't play every game over
15:09the festive period. It's going to be too much. People forget he's still quite a young player
15:12himself and hasn't played a huge amount of football in his career really, albeit he's
15:16a lot more experienced than some of the players in the Sutton squad. So I do think there'll
15:19be a bit of rotation at some point. And I do think we'll see Connolly, I wouldn't be
15:23surprised to see if he can get a start at some point over the Christmas period with
15:26Meander out on the wings. Jan Pavade is back, but it sounds like he'll be a while away from
15:30starting the game. He'll be used as an impact sub. So, yeah, I think, I don't think there's
15:35any doubt that Lebris is going to stick with Isidor, albeit there might be a little bit
15:38of rotation at some point. So hopefully that answers your question a little bit. David
15:44Palmer, thanks for your question, David, says, Hi Phil, Adil Aoushish has produced some canny
15:49cameos as sub recently. He keeps possession and has a good football and brain late in
15:52the game when we need a cool head. You can pick a pass too, so I'd be disappointed if
15:56we moved him on in January. Do you agree? Yes and no. I totally agree with you. I thought
16:00that was an excellent cameo yet again from him yesterday. I thought it was exactly as
16:04you put it perfectly, David. I don't think you had too much more cool head, picked good
16:08passes, relieved a bit of pressure at times. I think credit to Lebris because when he first
16:12came on in that left wing role, as we spoke about a couple of weeks ago, I felt like Aoushish
16:15was on a bit of a hind to nothing. I think we're now starting to see in action that it's
16:19not a bad position for him. It's actually really working as an impact substitute. And
16:22again, he had a good impact yesterday. I still expect him to go in January, David, and to
16:27be honest, while I agree with you in the sense that it would be disappointing, I think you
16:31have to be fair to Adil. You know, three, five, 10 minute cameos at the end of games,
16:36every other games. It's just not enough. This is a guy who's played fairly regularly in
16:40the top team in France. If at this stage of his career, that's just not enough football.
16:45And unfortunately, I don't see him kind of pushing his way into the starting 11 anytime
16:49soon because it's clear that Lebris doesn't want to play in one of those central roles.
16:52And I think that's obviously his position. I think ultimately, I don't think you can
16:56stand in his way if there's a decent bid comes in in January, whether it's loan or permanent
17:01for him to go and play. I do have a slight reservation at the moment in terms that there
17:05aren't loads of options in Sunderland's squad. So at the moment, he will be a big miss because
17:09he's one of the few players you can trust to impact the game coming off the bench. But
17:13I think once January starts, Pervez has had a few minutes. Crucially, you have Romain
17:17Mundell now in brown coming back to fitness. I don't think Ashish is going to play much
17:20football because I think the kind of pecking order there is very clear from what Lebris
17:24did in the start of the season. So I'd agree with you, David. I think he deserves a lot
17:27of credit for what he's done. I really like him as a player. I really do. But I think
17:31it's right to let him go in January for his sake. I don't think it would be fair to stand
17:34in his way and sort of limit him to five minutes here and there, potentially even less, like
17:38I say, when players like Mundell come back.
17:41So move on to the last couple of questions. Saffa Mackham says, great win, important win.
17:48A couple of points. We can't continue to go goals down. It will bite us one day. Yes,
17:52spoke about that earlier. Definitely true. And I think something that Sunderland are
17:55well aware of. Also says, Paterson nearly cost us with his messing about at the back.
17:59He has supporters hearts in their mouths sometimes. Yeah, the only thing I would say to that is,
18:03you know, that's the way Paterson's being asked to play. I think sometimes you've got
18:06to, yes, it can be risky. Sometimes it can have all of us with our hearts and our mouths.
18:12But I think it's important to note that that isn't Paterson's decision making. That is
18:16very clearly the way he has been asked to play by the coaching staff as well. So you've
18:20got to, it would be wrong to focus purely on Paterson for that because that's a team
18:25decision. It's a coaching decision rather than necessarily his decision. And I think
18:29to be fair, we all knew when he came into the team that Paterson's strengths are his
18:33shot stopping and his command of his box, which I know sometimes there's a debate around
18:36that. But for me, watching the championship every week, I think there are a few goalkeepers
18:40who are more aggressive than him coming off his line for corners and set plays and crosses.
18:46I don't think distribution was ever a huge strength of his coming through the ranks.
18:49It's something he's learned on the job and I think he's gotten a lot better. Always room
18:53for improvement. Yesterday was tricky in the blustery conditions. I mentioned that earlier.
18:57I do think that's something you have to consider, especially in the first half. And then Paul
19:01says, is Leo Yelder the best sub of all time? Well, Leo's excellent record of helping seeing
19:05out games continues. He's made five appearances off the bench in the championship this season.
19:10Sunderland have held on to four wins and they also held on to draw at QPR, which you remember
19:14was a good result because they were down to 10 men for much of the game after Joe Bellingham
19:18got sent off. I thought it was interesting bringing this up because it'd be really interesting
19:21to see what happens with Yelder in January. Because as I've said before, I can't stress
19:25enough how popular Leo Yelder is in the dressing room. He's a big character and the players
19:30love him. He's a huge presence in that dressing room. Lebris really likes him. He made him
19:33captain for a few games in pre-season. He made him captain for that Carabao Cup game
19:37at Preston at the start of the season. Rates entrust him and you can see that in the way
19:41he brings him on in important moments of the game. Having said that, Yelder's a youth international
19:46and he'll have big aspirations for his career and I can't imagine he is satisfied, a bit
19:49like I said with Arshish, with a few minutes here and there. So I do wonder if he'll want
19:53to go out and play somewhere. It's going to be interesting because while a lot of those
19:56players who aren't getting minutes, Abdullah Bar and Naziru Rufsin, I think it's a bit
19:59of a foregone conclusion that it's the right time for him to go in January. I'm not sure
20:03what will happen with Yelder just because I know that Lebris has a lot of trust and
20:06also rates him really highly as a player. So it's going to be really interesting to
20:11see how that one develops in January. I thought he did well yesterday but I'm not sure. It's
20:16hard to see a route into the team with him when everyone's fit defensively and obviously
20:20as I say, I think a player with his career so far and where he wants to go, I think it's
20:24hard to ask him to play a few minutes here and there. So let's see how that one goes.
20:28I think I'd say I've been speaking again for a long time. My apologies. I seem to be making
20:31this video longer every single week. I'll try and work on that. Over the festive period,
20:36there's going to be stacks of stuff on the Sunderland Deco. So if at any point over the
20:39festivities you need a quiet 5-10 minutes to sit with your phone or your laptop and
20:43read something, come over to the Sunderland Deco website because the football section
20:47will have loads of Sunderland stuff there for you to read. But yeah, I just wanted to
20:51say this will be the last On The Whistle before obviously I'll be back after the Boxing Day
20:55game against Blackburn Rovers. So I just wanted to wish you all a very, very Merry Christmas
21:00to you and your loved ones. I hope you have a really festive and peaceful time. And yeah,
21:05I'll see you after the Blackburn game with another edition of On The Whistle. Merry Christmas.
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