'If we wish for peace, we have to prepare for war', says Finnish MP for Arctic Circle

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Two years ago, Finland was a non-aligned, militarily neutral country.

Transcript

00:00Finland is a border with Russia of over 1,300 kilometers, the largest in NATO territory.

00:13It's frequently targeted by Russia through cyber and hybrid war, including the sabotaging

00:19of undersea cables.

00:20In response, Finland is reconsidering its policy shift when it comes to EU defense spending

00:25and is even considering defense bonds.

00:28For the Europe Conversation, I catch up with Heikki Otto, MP for Lapland and chair of the

00:33Grand Committee of the Finnish Parliament.

00:38So Heikki Otto, chair of the Grand Committee here in Helsinki, thanks very much for joining

00:43us on the Europe Conversation.

00:44Well, I want to start off with Finland and the discussions that are happening in the

00:51EU at the moment and over the next few months around defense spending.

00:55We've heard, for example, Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO, saying Europe needs

01:00to pay more.

01:01We know that Donald Trump's main message is Europe needs to pay more.

01:06And we hear that Finland might be open to the issue of defense bonds.

01:12We will assist Ukraine and we will use all the necessary means.

01:17But of course, I would like to turn the discussion towards how we make Russia pay.

01:24We have hundreds of billions of frozen Russian assets in Europe.

01:30And of course, we have to find a legal framework to use those to support Ukraine now during

01:38the war, but also to rebuild the country.

01:43It cannot be the way that Russians can come and kill and rape, destroy homes and schools

01:50and hospitals, and then they wouldn't have to pay for what they have done.

01:56Of course, the European Union and the West needs to find the legal framework to use the

02:02frozen Russian assets to pay.

02:05But otherwise, Finland has not closed any option to aid Ukraine because we have to give

02:14the message to the front lines that we do all the necessary means to support Ukraine.

02:21Because so far, defense bonds have been off the table because countries like Germany and

02:25others are not supporting it.

02:27So can I just ask you, Finnish position on this?

02:30As I mentioned, we don't close any option away at the moment because our message to

02:36the Ukrainians fighting for their lives and fighting for our freedom also is that we do

02:42everything in our powers to aid them to win their struggle against the evil that is threatening

02:51the peace and stability in Europe.

02:55What comes to this kind of bond question, that's more of a technical at the moment,

03:01I would say.

03:02Because it doesn't make a significant shift from Finnish policy when it comes to extra

03:06EU spending.

03:07I suppose that's because of the nature of the threat.

03:10Nobody in Europe understands that this is really an existential issue for not only Finland

03:16and the countries neighboring Russia, but the whole of Europe and for the whole free

03:21world.

03:22You've got a particularly large border with Russia, over 1,300 kilometers.

03:27We've heard that there is hybrid war taking place here from Russia.

03:32Also, there is the concerns around the Russian Shadow Fleet, there's GPS jamming.

03:37Can you talk us through some of what's been happening?

03:40Well, Finland is very well prepared.

03:44We have been preparing for this kind of situations for decades.

03:49I can say for 80 years now.

03:52And my message to other Europeans is that this hybrid war that is ongoing and takes

03:58shapes like cyber attacks, but also different sabotage and using irregular migration to

04:06pressure governments, it's not aimed only towards Finland or the neighboring countries,

04:14but Russia is trying to destabilize the whole of Europe.

04:18So the whole Europe has to take this hybrid war seriously.

04:23And because Russia cannot pressure us by threatening in the way of conventional war, because we

04:30are all members of NATO, the hybrid war is the mean they use to threaten us.

04:37What is the Finnish position on Ukraine joining NATO as part of a negotiation where NATO would

04:44give Article 5 protections for the unoccupied territories at least?

04:48Well, of course, Ukraine must have, and the people of Ukraine must have the possibility

04:54to choose for their own future.

04:56And if they are willing to join NATO, I believe that NATO has to live by its own standards

05:03and able all the free European nations to join.

05:07So of course, Ukraine needs to have this path.

05:11But first, NATO and us as NATO countries need to able Ukraine to win this war, that they

05:19can have peace in their own country, and that they have this integrity of their international

05:25recognized border.

05:27Donald Tusk and Emmanuel Macron are discussing potentially sending 40,000 troops, peacekeeping

05:33troops into Ukraine after the war.

05:36Is that something that Finland would support, given how, as you mentioned, well-protected

05:42but also well-trained people are or troops and conscripts are here?

05:46Well, Finland has a history of being almost a superpower in peacekeeping, and we have

05:54taken part in nearly all the major UN operations.

06:01And it's interesting to see if this kind of operation has UN backing, or would it be only

06:07EU operation.

06:09But first, we need to have the deal.

06:12But what I say to all the Europeans is that we cannot close any option how to able Ukraine

06:21to win the war, find peace in Ukrainian terms.

06:25And after that, of course, we have to support the peace in all the necessary ways.

06:32And just moving on to Syria, what do you think the implications of the fall of Assad are

06:36for Russia in the region?

06:38Well, of course, that was very humiliating for Putin.

06:41We know that some of the generals that have been doing poorly, and of course, we are happy

06:47that Russian generals are generally doing very poorly, have been moved from Ukrainian

06:53front to Syria, and now they were totally humiliated by the rebels.

06:59So of course, at the moment, we are happy for the Syrian people that they at least have

07:04the possibility to start a democratic new era for their nation.

07:12But of course, at the same time, we have to be realistic that we've already heard some

07:16voices that are talking about the type of government they have in Afghanistan.

07:23And that's, of course, worrying.

07:25Before Assad fell, some countries, Georgia, Melania, Italy, Denmark, Hungary, were considering

07:32normalization with Assad in order to send Syrians back to Syria, even though we knew

07:38that there was an industrial scale of torture, of murder, of massacre by Assad and his regime

07:46for the last few decades.

07:47Is that, I suppose, a warning cry that European policy on asylum is getting too hardline and

07:56not empathetic enough?

07:58Well, that's at the moment something we don't need to worry about because the rebels were

08:02successful and Assad is now in Moscow.

08:06But of course, we as West should help now Ukraine, I mean, Ukraine foremost, but Syria

08:16also to build up a democratic society.

08:19And then, of course, Syrian people are free then to choose their own future.

08:24But has Finland stopped anyway asylum processing for Syrians for the moment?

08:29But do you think there should be now a push or encouragement to send Syrians back?

08:35Or is it too early to say, given that you mentioned this talk about an Afghanistan-type

08:41rule in Syria?

08:42Well, I would say it's too early to say what happens.

08:45We as a EU and West should help the interim government in Syria to be able to establish

08:55democratic and rules-based society, rule of law, and the basic human rights and freedoms

09:03for the people.

09:04And I believe after that, there will be, of course, Syrians traveling back to their home

09:10country.

09:12But I hope that Syria will develop to be a society where Syrians are in the future free

09:17to move to Europe as well if they so choose.

09:22So I really hope that this could be a turning point for the Middle East to start to build

09:31up more democratic societies there.

09:33What do you say to countries like Ireland and Austria and Malta, who are not members

09:37of NATO, call themselves neutral, and they don't give any support when it comes to the

09:43security of the European Union or the EU as a whole?

09:47Well, the first priority is, of course, to take care of everybody's own defense.

09:54And after that, the second most important priority is to support Ukraine.

10:00And I believe all the countries you mentioned have been supporting Ukraine in the ways that

10:05have been possible for them.

10:07And if they only could somehow intensify the support, I believe the West together, we will

10:14succeed to help Ukraine to win this horrible war.

10:18And just on Hungary and Slovakia, countries that are actively hostile to supporting Ukraine,

10:23what do you say to them?

10:25Well, it's a pity.

10:26And I believe countries that have had in their past issues with the Russia and Soviet Union

10:34should all remember what the Russians and Soviets have been capable of doing and understand

10:41that we don't want to see that to happen to anybody.

10:44We can see with our own eyes that it's happening at the Ukraine this very moment.

10:49Just final question, because you're MP for Lapland, which is the busiest time of year

10:53for you.

10:54Santa is leaving from Lapland to travel around the world.

10:58But it's also a place which held NATO's largest ever artillery exercise, and that's within

11:04the year of Finland joining NATO, a sign of the times.

11:08Well, that's how it is.

11:10And as already mentioned, if we wish for peace, we have to prepare for war.

11:16So this is the situation we have at the moment in my hometown in Rovaniemi at the Arctic Circle,

11:22that there are thousands and thousands of people around the world coming to meet Santa

11:26Claus.

11:27And I can see the bright eyes of the children, how happy they are when they meet Santa.

11:32And at the same time, we have thousands of military personnel from all over Europe and

11:37also North America coming for the exercise to build a peaceful future.

11:42Okay.

11:43Well, Heike Otto, chairman of the Grand Committee here at the Parliament in Helsinki in Finland,

11:49thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation, and happy Christmas to you.

11:53Well, thank you, and happy Christmas to everybody.

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