The Kent Politics Show - Friday 29th November 2024 - video Dailymotion

KentOnline / KMTV

Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Folkestone and Hythe District Council's Green Leader Jim Martin and Labour Aylesford Parish Cllr Lola Oyewusi.

Transcript

00:00Good evening and welcome to the Kent Politics Show.

00:29Live here on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians talking.

00:34I'm Oliver, leader of the Saxons, and today marks an extraordinary day in politics.

00:39Not just here in Kent, but across the UK,

00:42as parliamentarians put aside their party ties to vote in favour of one of the most difficult pieces of legislation

00:48they may ever have to make their voices heard on.

00:51The Assisted Dying Bill is not the only headline of the week though,

00:55with the Prime Minister changing tact on immigration,

00:58and water quality warnings in the South Coast raising fresh concerns.

01:02Well, to make sense of it all, I'm joined by folks who are in the High District Council,

01:05leader Jim Martin, and hopefully a little later in the programme,

01:08Labour Elder Parish Councillor Lola Ayoze.

01:11But first, the bill that has divided MPs and caused so much public debate

01:16over the rights of those who are terminally ill to end their own lives has passed.

01:20With 330 voting for the bill and 275 voting against,

01:25our reporter Bartholomew Hall has been speaking to just a few of Kent's MPs

01:30who voted on the legislation today.

01:33As a country, we should be ashamed that we haven't passed a law before now.

01:39Why? I believe it's a lack of moral fibre.

01:44Mike Moroney has been campaigning for Assisted Dying for years,

01:48following the painful loss of his sister, Mike says he's shocked the UK

01:52doesn't allow people the choice to end their lives early when terminally ill.

01:56However, the fight grew even larger when his wife Pauline was taken into palliative care

02:02as she entered a losing battle with lymphoma.

02:05I just want to die, she said, several times.

02:08And, you know...

02:15..I have some kind of guilt,

02:19because, really, I would have loved to have helped her to die.

02:24And that's why I'm so much in favour of a law in this country

02:29which allows people to be medically assisted.

02:34Today, MPs voted for the first time in favour of making Assisted Dying legal.

02:39It's now set to face many more months of debate and scrutiny on the path to becoming law.

02:45In its current form, the bill sets out a number of requirements

02:48which must be met before someone can end their life early.

02:51That includes for them to be ill enough where they're expected to die within the next six months,

02:56for them to have the mental capacity in order to make the decision,

02:59so free from coercion or pressure,

03:01and for two independent doctors plus a High Court judge to sign off on the final decision.

03:07Mike's MP, Rosie Duffield, announced the night before the debates

03:10that, after careful consideration, she would not be supporting the bill.

03:14Very disappointed. I won't want to say any more.

03:18I'm sorry, Rosie, if you hear this.

03:20I believe this is a lack of moral fibre.

03:23You're not thinking and putting yourself through the thought process for other people

03:29other than your own particular views.

03:32Others, including Sittingbourne and Sheppey representative Kevin McKenna, have been in full support.

03:37I've worked with really compassionate and very skilled, well-trained clinicians

03:41who've been taught to spot coercion. It's fundamental to our practice.

03:45Others have been clear about their concerns.

03:48At the moment, there's a lack of experience in hospitals.

03:53The hospices are under-resourced.

03:56Both are capable of providing excellent services.

04:00Going forward, this could be something that we should consider,

04:03and maybe it came too soon into this Parliament as well,

04:09so maybe more discussion, more debates around this.

04:12I'm not convinced in the current legislation it's strong enough to support this bill.

04:19So, whilst the debate is far from over, for campaigners like Mike,

04:24today's vote is a welcome step towards more choice when families are faced with the unimaginable.

04:29Bartholomew Hall for KMTV.

04:32Well, as you heard there, a momentous day in British politics,

04:36and Lola and Jim join me here now.

04:39And Jim, I want to go to you first, because what did you make of the outcome today?

04:44Did Parliament make the right decision, or was there not really a right or wrong in this case?

04:55Jim, did you hear me there?

04:58I'm sorry, are you talking to me, Olly? Sorry, I missed that, mate.

05:02Yeah, the truth be told is that this is such a personal decision to make

05:09that it's very, very difficult for anyone who's not in that position

05:13to accurately give an answer to that question.

05:19I've had elderly relatives, my mother, father-in-law, brother-in-law,

05:24a very, very, very difficult position to be in, which I don't envy for anyone.

05:32What I would say, Olly, is that anyone who watched the debate today

05:38would have seen the House of Commons at its very best.

05:42No political division, no point scoring, no one-upmanship,

05:47just a group of very concerned, well-informed people giving their views passionately.

05:56And I think we should have a lot more of that.

06:00In answer to your question, I've got to stay on the fence.

06:05It's a personal decision, and I would hate to trample on anybody's thoughts.

06:11One way or the other on this.

06:13Obviously, it's so complicated, so many arguments for and against.

06:17And it is something that's had a wide impact in Kent.

06:21There's an average of 75% of people here, according to opinion polling,

06:25that support Assisted Dying.

06:27But obviously, Kent's MPs have been quite divided along this.

06:31It's not along party lines only.

06:34Lola, I want to ask you, do you think this is Parliament at its best today?

06:39Why do you think it's proven so divisive amongst our elected representatives,

06:43not even along traditional party lines in some ways?

06:47To be quite honest with you, it's not a win-win situation

06:51for the members of Parliament and even for the constituents themselves.

06:56Just like what everybody's been saying, it's a personal choice.

07:03And I'm speaking for me, I'm speaking as Lola Uyewuse.

07:07It's not something that I'm for.

07:10I'm totally against it, because number one, I'm a woman of faith.

07:13And number two, even as my constituent, I know the way that my MP voted.

07:18Well, I can't condemn the way he voted,

07:20because we have to look at things from both angles.

07:25The angles of people seeing their relatives so much in pain,

07:30and they want to go.

07:31And the angle of the other side, where we're thinking

07:34those who are not able to make that decision by themselves,

07:37those who have dementia, those who are thinking this act is not an act of God.

07:44This is, we could say, like a suicide bill.

07:47So we need to tread carefully and not to take side.

07:51And I'm very happy the way the government have actually gone with this,

07:56not actually making it mandatory for them to vote

08:00according to the way they think they should be voting.

08:03It's a personal choice, a personal decision.

08:05But what I'm not actually 100% sure about is,

08:09for all those MPs that voted, have they listened to their constituents?

08:14That is the main thing for me.

08:16Because obviously the majority in Kent are supportive.

08:19I just wanted to ask you before we move back to Jim,

08:21do you think, although you personally disagree with the bill for faith reasons,

08:25do you think that there should be the option still,

08:28that there should be some sort of pathway for people

08:31that aren't of faith to have access to assisted dying?

08:34Or do you think there's not going to be enough safeguards,

08:36particularly because there are concerns around

08:38how it's going to impact marginalised groups?

08:40Obviously, we've seen massive healthcare disparities

08:43amongst BAME people during the pandemic, for example.

08:46You are so right.

08:47And it's one of the reasons why I'm also totally against it.

08:51Because the safeguarding for people like myself,

08:53people from ethnic minority groups, is not totally clear.

08:57And, you know, it's not there as far as we're concerned.

09:00And another thing is, we're not being given that right.

09:05Because I know a lot of people have said to me,

09:08doctors have gone round because there's not enough money being put into NHS,

09:12they just want to clear the bed, and they've literally just decided,

09:15right, OK, we're going to switch the machine off.

09:17That is an issue.

09:20And the majority of those who are caught in that, like you rightly said,

09:24are the people from the Black, Asian, minority ethnic group.

09:28Especially what happened to us during the COVID.

09:31This bill can also do the same again,

09:35work against us, just like COVID did.

09:38And that safeguarding needs to be...

09:40Olly, can I just back in there?

09:43There isn't a doctor in this country who will kill someone just to clear a bed.

09:48That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

09:51There is not a single doctor in this country

09:54who will kill a patient in order to clear the bed.

09:58That's just a completely ridiculous statement to make.

10:01I'm sorry, you could think that,

10:03but a lot of people have actually voiced that out to me.

10:06And I'm not just saying it because that's what I want to say.

10:09People have made it clear it's happened.

10:12They've made it clear that it's happened to their relatives,

10:15when they just basically thought, well, the doctor has made his decision,

10:19this person cannot make it, they're going to switch off the machine.

10:24You can say that.

10:26If that has happened, that doctor should be reported to the police,

10:30criminally prosecuted and spend the rest of their life in jail.

10:34And that's exactly what I've said to you.

10:37You should send them to the police.

10:39I want to return back to the assisted dying bill here.

10:42I just want to ask you, obviously, the Green MPs today

10:45just probably go for the break.

10:47They voted in favour of the bill, but there are definitely concerns

10:50we heard all throughout Parliament today about safeguarding.

10:54And obviously Lola has raised those concerns about safeguarding

10:57within the NHS.

10:59Do you think that there are strong enough safeguards in this bill

11:02if it were to go ahead at a third reading?

11:05The bill now goes to the committee stage,

11:09and that's where the individual members of Parliament

11:14will be able to amend the bill.

11:16And I think there is a general consensus

11:18that it needs strengthening.

11:20For example, there's no consultation with the next of kin on this.

11:26There's no consultation with the patient's GP.

11:30So there are elements of this bill that very, very much need strengthening.

11:36And that is what we all want to see.

11:41Very, very clearly.

11:43There is no co-option.

11:45Absolutely.

11:46Clearly it is controversial, and lots of debate on this

11:48that we'll hear over the next couple of months.

11:50See you after the break for more debate here about campus politics.

The Kent Politics Show - Friday 29th November 2024

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