Lindsay LoBue, Chief Operating Officer, Carlylem
David Nason, Senior Executive Vice President and COO, TIAA; President, TIAA Wealth Management,
Anand Selvakesari, Chief Operating Officer, Citi Moderator: Diane Brady, Executive Editorial Director, Fortune; Co-chair, Fortune COO Summit
David Nason, Senior Executive Vice President and COO, TIAA; President, TIAA Wealth Management,
Anand Selvakesari, Chief Operating Officer, Citi Moderator: Diane Brady, Executive Editorial Director, Fortune; Co-chair, Fortune COO Summit
Category
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TechTranscript
00:00I want to first define, in the realm of finance,
00:03COO can mean many things.
00:05So tell me a little bit about your job.
00:07Well, at Carlyle, we have a client-first approach.
00:10And every decision that we make is actually
00:12very intentional with the client first.
00:14And that includes operational excellence.
00:17So you're not internally focused?
00:18I am internally focused with the internally and externally
00:21focused.
00:22I mean, I actually come from my background
00:23is actually in a client-facing role.
00:25I spent the majority of my career doing that.
00:27And so every decision that we make,
00:29we need to make sure internally it ultimately
00:32benefits our clients excellently.
00:33And how far in your three months into the job?
00:35Three months into the job.
00:36A year from now, they'll be saying,
00:37who needs a CEO at Carlyle?
00:39So that's just kidding.
00:40It's good.
00:41That's interesting.
00:42How do you define it, David?
00:43So TIA is a retirement company.
00:45We have $1.5 trillion in assets under management.
00:48And this role was actually created by our new CEO.
00:51So I have, I wear two hats.
00:53So I have P&L responsibility.
00:54I run a series of businesses, our largest
00:57being our wealth management business,
00:59plus I own a series of operational excellence
01:01programs, like I run our first-line risk management
01:03COE.
01:05And really, what I'm asked to do is be a strategic partner
01:08to the CEO.
01:09I help to create capacity for us to deliver on our strategy.
01:13And a big piece of that was what we were going to invest in
01:16and what we were not going to invest in.
01:17So I led a bunch of divestitures.
01:20So are you the first-ever COO?
01:21I don't know if I'm the first-ever COO.
01:23But you're the first, so why did they create?
01:24I'm the first-ever for our current CEO.
01:27Why create the title now?
01:29Because I think the reality is we
01:30were at an inflection point as to what we're going
01:32to be for the next chapter.
01:34And we decided that we wanted to go deep, not broad.
01:38And so we divested some businesses.
01:40We decided to invest in financial retirement
01:43solutions, financial advice, and asset management.
01:46Anand, how about for you?
01:47Yeah, I've been at Citadel 33 years.
01:50The last 18 months, I've been the chief operating officer.
01:53So primary responsibility is overseeing transformation.
01:56We went through a significant transformation at Citi,
01:58and also the global operations that we run,
02:01plus the global controls.
02:02That's sort of my role.
02:05Well, since we're talking about you're all in finance,
02:08I do want to get a sense.
02:10Obviously, we said transforming volatility into opportunity.
02:13Let's start with the volatility.
02:15What does the current climate look like from where you sit?
02:18Because you're on the front lines.
02:19Give me some sense of where are we?
02:22What are you seeing?
02:23I think one of the things about volatility,
02:25and I think we can all agree that one constant is that-
02:27Was ever thus, right?
02:29Change is constant, right?
02:32And I think from a COO's perspective,
02:34I actually like to draw on my own personal experience
02:37as a soccer player.
02:39The COO, as we all know, is sort of sit
02:40at the middle of our firm, just like a center midfielder
02:43does in soccer, which is the role that I played.
02:46And you have to see the field.
02:47And you actually have to be able to read the field.
02:49You have to know where your players are.
02:50You have to be on the offense.
02:51You have to be on the defense.
02:52You never get the full credit for scoring the goal
02:55or the full credit for defending.
02:57And that's not your role.
02:58You're really supposed to be the playmaker
02:59at the end of the day, right?
03:01And so when I think about volatile times,
03:03it's the same thing.
03:05As COOs, we're supposed to be there
03:06and make these decisions, regardless of whether
03:09or not it's volatile or not volatile.
03:11But can I ask you from a Carlyle perspective,
03:13because obviously the world of private equity, et cetera,
03:16I mean, what is the landscape looking like?
03:19Is there a lot more opportunity?
03:20I mean, just give me some sense.
03:21What's different from last year?
03:23I mean, I think that what's different from last year,
03:25or actually if we think about sort of the opportunity set
03:28going forward, is that we're now in the industry
03:31is really alternative asset management
03:34and not just private equity.
03:35I think from our perspective,
03:37we were founded as a private equity shop.
03:39So a lot of people continue to think of us that way.
03:42And 44% of our assets are actually credit assets.
03:45And we've been actually making very intentional decisions
03:49to make sure the industry knows that.
03:50So for example, my background is actually in credit.
03:53Our CFO's background is in private equity.
03:56So we've made the intentional decision to make sure
03:59that our executive office clearly represents
04:02what we offer as a firm.
04:03Different parts.
04:04I think being a diversified firm creates more opportunities
04:07for us and our clients.
04:08David, what are you seeing?
04:10You see the demographic shift.
04:12I know we're all supposed to have more babies
04:14and then what?
04:15What else?
04:15What else are you seeing right now?
04:16I'm not gonna comment on how many babies people should have,
04:18just to be clear.
04:19I also see volatility as a very big opportunity.
04:22Especially in terms of our business
04:24and what we're trying to do.
04:26I mean, if you think about it,
04:27TIA is about retirement security.
04:29So we're about kind of taking the risk profile
04:32that people see.
04:33Think about the world.
04:34The world right now, people are living longer.
04:36People are looking for the lack of defined pension plan,
04:40defined benefit pension plans.
04:42And we offer a solution that helps to provide that stability.
04:45The other thing is, with this much volatility,
04:48with this much unease,
04:49there is a huge desire for financial advice.
04:52And we provide financial advice
04:54and we have a very strong philosophy
04:56in our mission-based company,
04:57which is financial advice is not just for the wealthy,
04:59it's for everyone.
05:00Everyone needs it in certain forms.
05:01So what we're trying to do and we're doing effectively
05:04is figuring out a way to touch people in a broader way,
05:07regardless of their overall wealth.
05:10Anand, which way are interest rates gonna go?
05:13No, but I mean, give me some sense.
05:14You're also a global player.
05:16So from the landscape point of view,
05:19what are you seeing?
05:19See, for us, we went through a strategy refresh
05:21a couple of years back.
05:22So we have now these five broad businesses
05:25that we focus on.
05:26So services, markets, banking, wealth,
05:29pretty much global businesses.
05:30We connect institutions globally.
05:33Cross-border needs is what a big focus is.
05:36So for us, we're very well diversified.
05:37So we have opportunities everywhere.
05:39There could be challenges in some places,
05:41but there are opportunities in other places.
05:43I think for me, I guess, in my current role
05:45is when I look at this,
05:46I think the two areas,
05:47two characteristics that are important now
05:49is agility and resilience.
05:52So what's happening right now,
05:53you need to react fast.
05:55You need to understand situations faster, quicker.
05:57More so than ever?
05:58More so than ever.
06:00You need to be acting faster.
06:01You need to have conviction with the action.
06:02And then you've got to be resilient.
06:04You've got to hold your ground and stay the course.
06:07Those are two things
06:08which have really become much more important.
06:10It always was.
06:11It's much more important nowadays from what I see.
06:14One of the areas,
06:15when we talk about technology and transformation,
06:17I know you all have transformation
06:19as part of your mandate.
06:21The conversation around white-collar jobs
06:25being this next frontier,
06:27how do you, actually, I'm gonna start with you, Anant.
06:28How do you think about transformations
06:31that used to mean reducing headcount?
06:33How do you think about it now?
06:35Maybe headcount's part of it too.
06:37Okay, so we are obviously going through
06:39a significant transformation,
06:40a multi-year transformation.
06:43It's very unique for us.
06:44It's a 200-year-old institution
06:46with presence in over 100 countries,
06:48and we're going through a massive transformation.
06:51Three pieces for us in transformation.
06:52It's simplification, modernization, and standardization.
06:56That's the three themes that we focused on.
06:59So we are basically,
07:01anything that you do in terms of simplification
07:03could be policies, processes,
07:05your platform systems, et cetera.
07:07All of that is a simplification process.
07:09Modernization from a technology,
07:10since you asked the question, Diane.
07:12So a couple of things for us.
07:13We do have legacy platforms,
07:15companies like ours with 200 years history.
07:18So consolidation of technology is an important piece
07:21so that you can retire old applications,
07:23and then modernize things that you need to not,
07:25you need to modernize everything.
07:27There are things that need to modernize, you modernize.
07:29In that perspective, AI plays a role.
07:32We are excited about the AI and generative AI.
07:35We've got a lot of applications that's going on.
07:37At this stage, I see there's more as co-pilots
07:39and more as sort of assistants to our people,
07:43making them more efficient and more productive.
07:46It's time to come and it becomes a lot more powerful
07:49than what it is today.
07:50It is helping people become much more effective
07:53and much more productive.
07:54Yeah, I think people are very interested
07:55in some of the use cases.
07:56How are you thinking about technology?
07:58I actually think about AI and technology
08:00when it comes to growth.
08:01And you can say, AI and technology
08:03is gonna make things more efficient,
08:05and that is gonna be the case,
08:06but it also means that your employees that may-
08:09What do you mean, top-line growth?
08:10Top-line growth.
08:11Not just top-line growth, actually,
08:12but employee growth also.
08:14Oh, personal growth?
08:14Personal growth, because if you are,
08:17if AI is a solution to be able to take some work away
08:19that perhaps is sort of labor-intensive,
08:25that employee can then focus on things
08:27that are much more higher quality
08:28that that person wants to focus on
08:30and grow them professionally.
08:32And then with AI, we're working on bespoke opportunities
08:35so that we can help our investors have more information
08:39to make smarter decisions.
08:40We also think of it as a collaborative effort.
08:42We actually have a group at our,
08:44we have sort of like a SWAT team
08:46within our organization called AI Scaler.
08:48And what they do is they take
08:49the best of our data science team
08:50and the best of our technology team.
08:52They work together to figure out solutions
08:54both on the efficiency side as well as the growth side.
08:57Before I move on to David,
08:58what is your biggest pain point?
09:00Since I know we talk about these things
09:02at the 30,000-foot level,
09:03if you could just wave a wand and change anything,
09:05what's, is there any unexpected friction or?
09:08Not when it comes to sort of AI and technology.
09:11I think one of the benefits
09:13of being in a collaborative organization
09:15and actually this AI Scaler that we put together,
09:17our employees actually have a direct access to that team
09:21and they're able to be a part of the solution.
09:23They're able to come to them with their pain points,
09:25their thoughts on opportunity.
09:28And it's another growth opportunity for our clients.
09:30How do you think about this?
09:31So it's interesting.
09:32I can, I build off of what both panelists just said.
09:36So I'd say from your perspective,
09:38our 100-year-old company, lots of legacy systems.
09:41They're 200.
09:42I understand, we're half as long, but still long.
09:44You're like a baby at 35 year olds.
09:47But the reality is this,
09:48is that we used to try to build everything in-house
09:50and we have decided that that's not gonna work going forward.
09:53So strategic partnerships,
09:55we just announced a partnership with Accenture
09:57that would transform our record-keeping business
10:00in a very significant way.
10:01So embracing that was a culture shift
10:03that was pretty important.
10:04We also see technology as co-pilots
10:08for what we're trying to do.
10:09So the only other thing I'd add
10:10to what the panelists have already said is,
10:12it is a challenge from a human capital perspective
10:15to talk about how do you introduce technology
10:17and what does that mean for roles changing?
10:19What does that mean for jobs?
10:21And trying to get that skillset
10:22to understand how to lead technology changes
10:26at an organization and what that means to jobs and people
10:29is super important and a skillset that we all need.
10:32You know, when I talk to anyone
10:34in the financial services sector,
10:36security, regulation, obviously it's especially heightened,
10:40but I'd love to know, Anand,
10:42in terms of the different sort of C-suite colleagues
10:46that you work with and especially in this realm of AI,
10:52the security of data and what's happening
10:54on the regulatory front are both so important.
10:56So what are you doubling down on?
10:59Where are you finding you're spending more of your time?
11:03So for us, I guess, you know,
11:05the transformation is our number one priority.
11:08So that's the firm's top priority.
11:12Within that, as we look at things-
11:14Does that mean fewer people?
11:16Sorry?
11:17Does that mean fewer people?
11:17When you say transformation-
11:19It's the, like I said,
11:20transforming our firm to a better bank,
11:22simplifying, modernizing is our number one priority.
11:24So we are investing into it
11:26and we are putting our resources behind it.
11:29That's, everybody is in charge of transformation.
11:32Everyone is involved in transformation.
11:34That's how it is.
11:35It's not a single small group of people
11:36in the middle trying to do this transformation.
11:39And the transformation's got many things done.
11:41I mean, it's not only technology.
11:43It is not only policies, processes,
11:45the organization structure, operating model.
11:48It's also about the culture.
11:49It's about ownership.
11:50It's about accountability.
11:51It's about how you get the teams
11:53sort of working together in a different way.
11:55So all of that is transformation for us.
11:58Areas that we are focused on right now for me
12:00would be leveraging technologies for automation,
12:05straight through processing, speed computing.
12:07You know, technology basically drives most of what we do.
12:10It's a critical component for what we're trying to achieve.
12:13How much do you think about,
12:15how much is security something that's top of mind?
12:18Because especially when you start to talk about,
12:21you mentioned co-pilot,
12:22obviously there's the data that you control internally,
12:25but there's also new threats that come on the horizon.
12:28Do you have any thoughts on that?
12:29I mean, our decisions regarding security
12:32come down to client first.
12:33It really does.
12:34Because if we're thinking about the client first,
12:36we need to protect the client,
12:37our information when it comes to how we deal with clients.
12:40And so it's something that is a centralized effort
12:43within our firm,
12:44but it's also something that is brought
12:46throughout the entire firm.
12:48And when we have that mentality,
12:51you know, we really protect,
12:52it's not just protecting us,
12:53it's protecting our entire client environment.
12:56Could I add to that, Diana?
12:57In our industry,
12:57financial services are highly regulated.
12:59So having guardrails is absolutely important.
13:02So we spend a lot of effort in getting the guardrails done
13:05before you can really roll out AI in a big way,
13:07because that's very critical.
13:10I think it's also important to have a culture where,
13:13because the guardrails are really important,
13:14and you need to make sure that your employees
13:16respect those guardrails also.
13:18And I think, you know, at Carlyle,
13:19I feel really blessed that we have
13:21sort of this world-class team,
13:23we fit within those guardrails.
13:25But then we also have a culture where
13:26people feel comfortable raising any kind of
13:29concerns or risks.
13:30And I think in a society where we're moving towards
13:33more AI, more technology,
13:35having that culture is really important.
13:38I was just gonna say,
13:39you mentioned the regulation associated with it,
13:42but let's also think about the types of information
13:44that financial services people have.
13:45I mean, we have the most, if not,
13:48maybe as opposed to healthcare,
13:50we have the most personal information to people.
13:52So if we don't take that seriously,
13:54then we really are not serving our clients well.
13:56The other thing I'd say is,
13:58cyber information security is taking a lot more time
14:01in the boardroom these days.
14:02I would say we are doing a cyber presentation twice a year
14:06with outside and internal experts.
14:08And the amount of investment that we need
14:11to protect data is,
14:12it seems like there's an inexhaustible amount of money
14:15needed to do it.
14:16What have you learned from your own experiments with,
14:19not experiments, but you know,
14:20the investments you've made,
14:21there's a sense that people have been investing widely
14:25to get a sense of what works,
14:26not throwing things at the wall,
14:27but really testing.
14:29At this juncture right now,
14:31if you look back on the last 18, 24 months,
14:35is there any sort of thing that you've gleaned from that
14:37that will inform 2025?
14:40From my perspective, I'd say two things.
14:42Number one is the talent.
14:44You cannot spend enough on bringing in the best talent
14:48to deal with these issues.
14:49What kind of talent are you hiring that you wouldn't?
14:51Talent that has had government experience
14:53and understands some of the significant threat levels,
14:56people that have seen horrible things.
14:58Those are the best people that come and take-
15:00Raise your hand if you've seen horrible things.
15:01If you've seen horrible things, we're interested
15:03in hiring you.
15:04That's number one.
15:05And number two is focusing on vulnerabilities.
15:08Like partially a lot of the vulnerabilities that we see
15:11come from employees.
15:12So the types of training that's necessary
15:14to get people understanding what phishing looks like
15:17and all those types of things,
15:18that's one of your biggest points of vulnerability.
15:20So understanding that
15:21and addressing that is really important.
15:23You know, I'm curious, because the COO roles
15:25often combined with other C-suite roles,
15:29I'm curious, Anand, to start with,
15:31in terms of the CEO and how you work with the CEO,
15:35what kind of engagement in terms of when do you weigh in
15:39and what, I'd love to know a little more
15:41about how the two of you work together.
15:43So like I said, I'm in a very unique role.
15:46Transformation is the number one priority for the firm.
15:48So I do get to work very closely with Jane.
15:51Jane Fraser just says, how's it going?
15:52Where are you?
15:53Yeah, she just walks up.
15:56So she doesn't even call.
15:57So in the same floor.
15:58So yeah, so we work very closely.
16:00I mean, that's critical.
16:01It's not only her.
16:02I think the entire leadership team
16:04embraces what we're trying to do
16:06because that's most important, right?
16:07So that's how the whole organization
16:09will then start rallying up.
16:10So working with Jane and the entire team
16:12as a collaborative way and as partners
16:14and owning what we're trying to do together,
16:17that's the way to do it.
16:18It's not about one person trying to do it.
16:20Can I ask, and then I'll ask you Lindsay,
16:21what have you learned?
16:22Because you mentioned you've got obviously
16:23legacy technology.
16:24That's one of the biggest challenges, of course,
16:27especially in financial services, but writ large.
16:29So at this juncture, when you're thinking about
16:33some of the experiments,
16:34where you're getting the best ROI,
16:35anything that would be useful for this group to know?
16:39I would say, I think one of the things
16:40that probably all of us and we all learn
16:43is the sustainability of the solutions
16:44that we're putting in.
16:45What happens when you're going
16:46through this large transformation,
16:48it's always the balance between short-term
16:50versus long-term sort of solutions that you're taking.
16:52So what happens, people get into execution more quickly
16:55and they start repairing things.
16:57And sometimes they don't even know what they're repairing
16:59or they don't know what they're repairing
17:00is actually what's supposed to work
17:02the way it's supposed to work.
17:03Yeah, that was not the problem we wanted to solve.
17:05Yeah, so just taking a step back,
17:07understanding what the core issues are,
17:09understanding the root causes,
17:10and then fixing permanent solutions is important.
17:12And that's the call that we have taken as a company.
17:15As Jane would very clearly say,
17:17we are here to fix strategically, no band-aid solutions.
17:20And that's important because you get to sort of,
17:22you get the feeling, I need to get things done,
17:24let me go and repair stuff and execute.
17:27On a large transformation, you gotta like,
17:29take a step back, right?
17:31I think also the long-term solution is really important.
17:33What is long-term in this, what does that mean for you?
17:37It means making a decision that is gonna actually,
17:39well, I mean, I think it's actually sustainable
17:41for the long-term in the sense of something
17:43that is not going to be disruptive
17:45based upon what's happening in the market,
17:48changes that you might see from technology.
17:51For us, what's really important is
17:53when we think about sort of the long-term
17:55and making decisions today,
17:55we continue to have our guiding principle,
17:57which is clients first.
17:58And we continue to make sure
18:00that we are making very intentional decisions
18:03so the decisions that we're making today
18:04can sustain the long-term.
18:06So for example, we're very much focused
18:08on delivering the entire firm to our clients.
18:11And that means breaking down silos within the organization.
18:14So is that where you're focusing
18:15your technology investments?
18:16Like what's not happening today?
18:17Our technology investments, our people investments,
18:19and that's been happening,
18:21but it's just a long-term strategy
18:22when it comes to delivering the most for our clients.
18:24Forgive my ignorance, I know we have,
18:25but was this a new role for Carlisle?
18:28The Carlisle had the COO role.
18:31What's new to Carlisle right now
18:32is just the experience that I bring in
18:35when it comes to sort of having-
18:36You have a different mindset.
18:37Different, I think Carlisle's
18:39always had a client-first mindset.
18:41It's just having somebody in the COO role
18:43who has the experience of having spent
18:46most of their career working directly with clients.
18:48I think in many COO roles,
18:49it's very much in sort of the operations.
18:51I love that.
18:52So we're down to sort of final thoughts.
18:56David, I'm gonna start with you,
18:57especially with regard to what's on your radar for 2025.
19:02Let's start with that a little bit,
19:04and then what you want some of the takeaways
19:06to be in terms of what you've gleaned
19:08that we can learn from.
19:10Sure, so what's on my radar for 2025?
19:12I think, and our CEO and I are singularly focused on this,
19:16I think we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity
19:18to make our company relevant to millions of people
19:21who need retirement security.
19:22So how do we get ourselves to do that,
19:24I think, is important.
19:25From my perspective, the things that I focus on,
19:28I was thinking about this,
19:29which is essentially three Ts.
19:31Time, talent, and technology.
19:33How do I allocate my time?
19:34Because there's never enough time
19:35to allocate what you need to do.
19:37Second is the most important thing
19:39is who you rely on and who's at your table.
19:41So the talent is key.
19:42And we talked a lot about technology,
19:43so how to invest, how to partner,
19:45and how to think about the human aspects of it,
19:47really, really important.
19:49Before we move on to Anand,
19:50can we focus on time for a second?
19:51What are you spending more time on?
19:53What are you spending less time on?
19:54Well, I have two hats.
19:55So I have to grow my business,
19:57and I also have to make the company run better.
19:59So I try to allocate about an equal amount of time to each,
20:01but I would say most importantly
20:03is how do we serve our clients effectively?
20:05Okay, Anand, how about for you?
20:07Nothing new, I just continue to simplify
20:09and modernize the firm.
20:10We're on a multi-year journey,
20:12so we got to keep that pushing ahead.
20:14And with global operations,
20:16our ability to just scale up.
20:18And at this point, we are expanding our utilities.
20:21We call them centers of excellence around the world,
20:23where we are building more core capabilities
20:25so we can standardize and build scale around it.
20:28You know, we're talking about volatility,
20:30and again, before we move on to Lindsay,
20:32we have not talked about the geopolitical landscape.
20:35We've talked about variations,
20:36and we've got climate change.
20:38We've got changes in the regulatory landscape,
20:40geopolitical.
20:42How much does that factor into,
20:43I mean, it is incredibly volatile business
20:45that you're all in.
20:46How is that factoring into where you're spending time
20:49and energy that you may not even want to spend right now?
20:52Absolutely, we spend a lot of time on it.
20:54A lot of time.
20:55To David's point, I mean,
20:56things that we spend time on, geopolitical issues,
20:59cyber, you know, the safety and soundness primarily,
21:02if you call it, in that big bucket.
21:04A lot of time is spent on that.
21:05The world around us is changing.
21:07We talk about volatility.
21:08Volatility is not going to get any better, right,
21:12as we look ahead, so we just have to be, you know.
21:15Any advice for people who are on the journey
21:17towards simplification and the other metrics?
21:20I would just say, from my experience,
21:21I think technology plays a very critical part,
21:23so we really are leveraging tools,
21:25and today, the possibilities are endless
21:27with the tools that we have,
21:28so technology is one piece that I'll really look at.
21:31Talent, as David was saying,
21:32upskilling talent is very important.
21:34I mean, not only upskilling,
21:35giving them the right tools to also work with
21:37is very critical,
21:39and third, in our industry, financial services,
21:41we are an industry of taking risk.
21:42We are in the business of taking risk.
21:44It's not about avoiding risk.
21:46It's about managing risk,
21:47and that's the mindset we need to have
21:49when we're sort of approaching these things.
21:52Nsi, how about you?
21:52You talked about that bucket of,
21:54obviously, private credit, private equity.
21:56You've got this growth mindset.
21:58I mean, for us going forward,
22:00the way that I think about the COO role is,
22:01one is, how do you actually run the firm,
22:04and then how do you actually build the firm for the future,
22:07right, and that's sort of what we're focused on,
22:09and when you have the client-first mentality,
22:11the knock-on effect is that it's good for employees
22:13and that it's good for shareholders,
22:15and I agree with my colleagues up here
22:17when it comes to talent is really important,
22:19and it's an area that,
22:22it's our most important asset,
22:23and if we're gonna ultimately win,
22:25and winning means doing what's right by our clients,
22:27doing what's right by our employees,
22:29and doing what's right by our shareholders,
22:30we're gonna have to have the right talent in place,
22:32which I believe we do.
22:33And I think one of the things that,
22:34when you mentioned,
22:35is it what we consider to be our client
22:37customers changing, right?
22:39You mentioned a much wider swath with alternative assets,
22:42so even how you define the customer.
22:44A lot of people wanna retire, maybe can't,
22:47but I do think that changing customer mindset's
22:50good as well.
22:51Please join me in thanking our terrific
22:55finance sector COOs.
22:57I really appreciate it, so thank you very much.