'Many Burkinabe citizens just want to have their country back and end this security crisis'

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00:00Burkina Faso's junta leader still hasn't spoken since what's believed to be one of the worst

00:04massacres in the history of that West African state.

00:09Victims' families claim at least 400 killed when jihadists opened fire last weekend on

00:15civilians digging defensive trenches for the army outside the north-central village of

00:20Barcelogo.

00:22Al-Qaeda affiliate Jamaa al-Nusrat claims nearly 300 killed.

00:28In a statement that was seen this Thursday, it insists it only targeted militia members

00:34allied with the military, not civilians.

00:37For more, let's cross to Berlin.

00:39Ulf Lessig is director of the Sahel program at the Konrad Adenauer Foundation think tank.

00:46Thanks for being with us here on France 24.

00:52So far, what have you been able to piece together about this massacre?

00:57It's extremely difficult.

00:58I mean, Burkina Faso is more and more like a black box.

01:02I go there still, but I mean, journalists can't, and people are often afraid to talk.

01:08What is clear, it was an attack from GINEM, the force you mentioned, Al-Qaeda-linked,

01:13and apparently after people had been asked to build trenches for the army.

01:18But I mean, like, extremely difficult to pin anything down with numbers of victims

01:24or what happened exactly.

01:26Victims' families are very angry.

01:29They put out a statement the next day among their complaints that they were forced to

01:34dig these trenches, the civilians were, and thus that made them targets.

01:38The other one is how slow rescue efforts took.

01:42It was several hours before the village was reached.

01:46I mean, this happens in an area northeast of Burkina Faso where the government control

01:51has been very, very weak, where jihadists are very, very active, and I mean, the country

01:55is in a desperate situation.

01:57I understand victims, but also many people in Burkina Faso want the army to fight, too.

02:03You're just showing the map.

02:04Maybe 50 percent of the country out of government control, so there is a will from many Burkina

02:09Beir, I mean, that they want the army to continue fighting.

02:13Whether their means are the right ones is another question.

02:16But it's difficult just to pin the blame only on the army.

02:20It's, I mean, information is too sketchy, and many, many Burkina Beir, they just want

02:25to have their country back and end this security crisis.

02:28The junta leader, Ibrahim Traore, he's been silent since the massacre.

02:35What do you make of that?

02:36Yeah, they are not, they don't like to confirm any incidents like this.

02:41It doesn't fit into this patriotic narrative that the government forces are making progress

02:48in their fight against jihadists.

02:51That makes it also then very difficult to corroborate any information if the government

02:56stays silent.

02:58The published reports also talk about people being forced to enroll in the military, particularly

03:07those that are not in favor in Ouagadougou.

03:10Yeah, there have been cases of journalists or even members in the judiciary or department

03:18who have been drafted into the war effort.

03:23Yeah, that's been confirmed by people.

03:27They have been recruiting also non-professional forces, so-called voluntary forces, VDPs,

03:35some 50,000 or so.

03:37I mean, it's all part of the government effort to try to claim their country back.

03:42Whether they succeed in it, we don't know, but it's part of this focus to throw anything

03:48at the military effort.

03:50So we had a statement this Thursday from the European Union condemning the massacre.

03:56But beyond statements, what can the EU do?

03:59What can France do?

04:00What can Germany do?

04:01Yeah, I mean, France is out.

04:04Their relationship is broken.

04:06Germany and some other European Union members, such as Italy, Spain, they still keep lines

04:12open.

04:13But I mean, the government has allied itself with Russia.

04:17They've brought in Russian fighters.

04:20They also bought equipment from various countries.

04:23So I mean, it's good from a European perspective just to keep channels open.

04:28There might be time when we have more influence, and I don't think the Russians will really

04:33make a difference.

04:34So it's good for us as Europeans just to keep a channel open, see what we can do.

04:40One has also to say in the defense of Dauphine-Boukina Faso that the country had approached the European

04:45Union for many, many years, asking for weapons and other activities, training, equipment.

04:52They weren't given to them because of the human rights records, fair point.

04:56But then you can't criticize them for turning to Russia, or Turkey, where they get drones

05:02or weapons or fighters, whatever they think they need in this desperate situation.

05:07How long will the honeymoon period with Russia last?

05:11Really hard to say.

05:12Also, like here in Mali, in Niger, I mean, so far they, you know, they're bolstering

05:18their case with a soft power campaign, you know, advertising Russia as something, you

05:23know, non-colonial, you know, opposite to France or Europe.

05:28For the time being, it works.

05:29You know, people don't like the old elites, elected ones who were close to France or Europe.

05:35But ultimately, you know, Russians, they haven't deployed so many, you know, mercenaries.

05:40You know, it's just a fraction of what France, for example, had in Mali.

05:44So their success, you know, will be really doubtful.

05:48And at some point, at least I hope that the honeymoon with Russia is over, and then Europe

05:53has a role to play again.

05:55Ulf Leysen, many thanks for being with us from Berlin.

05:59Sure.

06:00Stay with us.

06:01There's much more to come.

06:02More news plus today's business and sports.

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