What surprising Lonnie Walker signing means for Celtics | Still Poddable

  • 2 months ago
Jay King and Brian Robb break down an unexpected signing for the Celtics to wrap up the month of August in Lonnie Walker.


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Transcript
00:00Still Potable, Still Potable, Pops and Seps, Still Potable, Still Potable
00:06Oh yeah!
00:09Still Potable, Still Potable, Pops and Seps, Still Potable, Still Potable
00:15Man of A.T.
00:18J. King, Jerm, Beckett and the B-Rolls Still Potable, Still Potable
00:23The Jay Z, White and the K-Dolls Still Potable, Still Potable
00:27The kids are legends, they go
00:30Still Potable, Still Potable, Pops and Seps, Still Potable, Still Potable
00:37Oh yeah!
00:43I just had to go to the bathroom
00:48What's up? We are back with Still Potable, the greatest Celtics podcast ever.
00:53I'm Jay King from The Athletic, here with Brian Robb from MassLive.com
00:58For one of the first times in a while, we have Celtics news, real Celtics news
01:06For the first time all offseason, the Celtics signed a player who wasn't on their team before
01:16It is a huge day for Lonnie Walker, who just joined the champion
01:26It is a big day for us, because we got something to talk about that isn't the same old stuff
01:34It's Lonnie Walker Day
01:40What were your thoughts upon seeing that Brad Stevens used the 15th spot
01:48Lonnie has a training camp contract, so he'll have to make good on it, we'll see how it goes
01:53But he is a relatively proven guy who has shown that he can make threes at a high volume
02:03Honestly, the first thing, I was a little bit stunned by this
02:08From a perspective that Lonnie Walker would be willing to take this type of deal at this point
02:16What you said Jay, it's an exhibit 10, it's a training camp deal
02:19He's coming off of a year in Brooklyn where he posted fine numbers
02:25Mostly coming off the bench for them
02:28Certainly is one of the best available free agent guards out there in the market still
02:32But there's no clear path to minutes in Boston and may not even be a clear path to a roster spot
02:40Based on how it goes, so from a Celtics perspective, this is a huge win
02:46You get in a guy with essentially no risk
02:49And if he blows you away, you can keep him
02:52Or if an injury happens and it makes sense to give him, you do, Jay
02:57I don't know, if you're Lonnie Walker and this is the best that you have in the market right now
03:01I guess that just says how tough life is for guys of his ilk that are still out there
03:07Yeah, so he shot about 10 threes per 36 minutes
03:13I'm going to use per 36 minutes because I think it makes more sense to do that
03:18Comparing guys who play a lot of minutes to comparing guys who don't play a lot
03:22So 9.6 threes per 36 minutes he shot
03:26And hit 38.4% of them, so it was a very good shooting year for him
03:33He has only shot 35.6% from deep for his career
03:39So if he's not as good a shooter as he was last year, it changes things
03:46If he's a better shooter because he's in Boston and getting better looks
03:50And just knocking shots down around Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown
03:54That also changes things
04:00There are reasons why he was available this late in the summer
04:04And he's not a very good defender
04:07His defensive EPM numbers, obviously that's not the only input that you look at
04:16When you're gauging someone's defense
04:18But have always been negative
04:21I don't think he's ever been positive in that stat
04:25And he also is kind of a chucker
04:30He doesn't really love to pass
04:34But he is coming off his best year
04:36He is a former first round pick with a lot of athleticism
04:42And he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes last season
04:47So he can fill it up, it's just a matter of whether he fills it up efficiently
04:52Whether he can play within a team concept
04:55And whether the Celtics can coach him up to play defense
04:59Because if you don't play defense, I don't think you're going to get on the court for this team
05:04Yeah, I guess that speaks to the market at large for guys of his ilk right now
05:10The chucker types, like you said, Jay
05:13Whether you're Celtics or any other team
05:16If you can't play defense and you're not really helping the team overall
05:20Beyond getting your shots
05:23Then clearly his value is pretty minimal right now
05:27I think he played those four years of the Spurs
05:32Took a one-year mid-level deal with the Lakers
05:37He had that magical moment against the Warriors in the playoffs a couple years ago
05:43Where he had that monster fourth quarter
05:45He ended the Warriors dynasty
05:48Single-handedly
05:50But that year, I think overall, with the Lakers' disappointment
05:53He got pushed to the side out of the rotation for the second half of the season
05:58And then, like you said, put up good numbers last year in Brooklyn
06:03Those were empty numbers in the eyes of many
06:06When factoring in the whole part of his game
06:13You can make the case for it, Jay
06:16But part of me wonders still
06:19With the flexibility involved
06:22I kind of lean like he's probably
06:25I'm not expecting him to make the team
06:28Based on where the Celtics' depth is in the backcourt
06:31The potential needs they might have to want to bring in an extra big
06:34If someone else gets hurt
06:37Again, a lot of this will just depend on health, I feel like, maybe
06:40But it's certainly, I think, going to be an uphill battle for him
06:45But he's clearly going to be betting on himself with this type of deal
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08:05Yeah, and
08:08It wouldn't be crazy for them to
08:11Use that 15 spot on him
08:14And keep it open to
08:17Waiving him or trading him
08:20Before the deadline for his
08:23Entire contract to become
08:26Guaranteed arrives
08:29So something like that
08:32At the very worst
08:35He can end up in Maine
08:38That's what Exhibit 10 contracts allow you to do
08:41Others would love that
08:44Yeah, and obviously he would have a much better pedigree
08:47Resume than most guys
08:50In that similar situation
08:53But obviously he signed this contract
08:56So either there weren't a lot of options for him
08:59Or he really wanted to be in Boston
09:02And
09:05He's trying to make it work and trying to be part of a winner
09:08And trying to kind of salvage his career
09:11And convince people
09:14That he's a winning type of player
09:17Because like you said, he had a solid year
09:20Individually in Brooklyn
09:23They didn't win many games. It was kind of a mess over there
09:26It's easy to look at his playing style
09:29And his defense
09:32And just wonder if it will actually help
09:35A good team. Obviously in LA
09:38He had moments
09:41And
09:44I just don't know
09:47So it's kind of a weird signing to me
09:50Because everybody else on the team is just kind of like
09:53Fit into the team concept
09:56Loves being like complimentary piece
09:59To Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown
10:02And this is just a new type of player
10:05And maybe that's what they wanted
10:08I'm not sure
10:11I don't think he's the kind of guy who really wants to
10:14Win
10:17But he can fill it up off the bench
10:20And go nuclear at times
10:23And carry you for a five minute stretch
10:26Where he gets a bunch of three's
10:29Hits a bunch of shots
10:32And that's okay
10:35shots up. He had a 24% usage rate in Brooklyn last season. Obviously, it's not going to
10:39be the same in Boston. But when he was in LA, he was next to LeBron James and Anthony
10:48Davis. Obviously, he still had a usage rate over 20, which for a bench guy in a situation
10:55like that is still pretty high. So he's going to get him up. He's going to try to score.
11:01He's going to try to get his own offense. I think maybe Celtics are okay with adding
11:08a talent like that, but it could be a weird fit in this ecosystem. It could be the case
11:16where they felt like at this point of the summer, they had to add somebody with the
11:22talent like that. But I'm not sure that he is the winning piece. And he'll have to prove
11:34that he is, I guess. And that's why he's on an Exhibit 10. So interesting signing.
11:39And Jay, I know you're going to have to go in a minute here, but I want to get one question
11:43for you. And now I can wrap things up for us after talking a little bit more about the
11:47roster. But in a perfect world, in your mind, if he comes in and impresses, how much of
11:53a... Could this signing also potentially be like, listen, Drew Holliday is 34 now. We
12:00have a bunch of guys at the end of the... Maybe in 11, slots 11 through 15, we don't
12:04know what Jaden Springer is yet. Could this be an insurance play of that, of being like,
12:11there's a guy who can potentially fill it up on random nights. And so we don't have to lean so
12:18much on a guy like Drew. I doubt it. If that ends up happening,
12:23the Celtics would be thrilled, obviously. But you don't sign a 15th guy thinking one day he's going
12:30to replace Drew Holliday. I just don't see Brad Stevens in his office thinking to himself,
12:38yeah, guys, we got the Drew Holliday succession plan, Lonnie Walker.
12:42Or just give him the night off. The 10 nights a year, an extra game is for Drew to take off.
12:46Additional depth is helpful. And I think the Celtics have gotten better and have gotten good
12:55at trying not to waste roster spots and going after guys with upside, going after guys
13:02with untapped potential. And I think Lonnie Walker is that kind of guy. And if he hits,
13:09he could really hit. He is a very good athlete who has shown he can fill it up. It's just,
13:16can he do all the other things to kind of help a team win? We'll see on that.
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14:45What time is it? GameTime. All right. Well, we're fairly low to you right now. We'll hear more from
14:51you on Lonnie as the weekend rolls on as we get back to Pondmoor next week. But in the meantime,
14:58I'm going to kind of start to go through the rest of the roster here. And because it is an
15:04interesting fit when you because when you look step by step here in the backcourt and you wonder,
15:09how is this going to work guy by guy here? And the guys I look at for this situation
15:17is A, James Bringer, who had a nice little summer league, I feel like, where he played a game.
15:30And that was literally all the team needed to see out of him. Didn't have to play that
15:35based on the fact he was a fourth year guy. But there's opportunity for him this year.
15:42With Svi out the door, with Chris Hopp's injury. And he, from a size perspective,
15:51from a speed perspective, is an intriguing guy that the team gave up a real second round pick
15:55for last year at the trade deadline. And we didn't see him make any real impact in those games. But
16:00if if Walker Walker being in camp, I think is a fascinating subplot to chase her. That's someone
16:08that he's going to have to battle against to earn opportunity against. Certainly someone
16:14that's gonna be tough to guard defensively in practice is a Lonnie Walker type when those guys
16:19if those guys go head to head much in camp. And so that's that's interesting part of it here.
16:24We already hit on the Drew Holiday part of it. I feel like where he's coming off a gold medal.
16:31He's 34 years old. He's not going to get the full Al Horford treatment of wrestling back to backs.
16:38And a situation where we're in his way for two or three weeks. He's, he's as good as shape as
16:48anyone on this team. But if you look over the course of his career, he is an injury prone
16:52at times. And he is someone that you probably ideally don't want to be playing 32, 33 minutes
17:00per game. At this stage, if you can get that number down to 2930, etc, or just get him
17:08just more nights off, he played 69 games last year, if you get that number down to somewhere
17:12between 60 and 65. That is more ideal. And so you look at this roster. This last season,
17:23they did not have to deal with any major injuries to their backcourt Derek White is durable as hell
17:30drew holiday had minor stuff with his arm and elbow at points of the year, but no serious
17:38absences. Payne Pritchard, another guy who is very, very healthy throughout the course of his
17:45career, very, very durable for a guy of his size, which is huge. So they have not really had to
17:53worry much about deep bench backcourt depth before. And not that Lonnie Walker. This signing
18:04opens the door to that because again, it is an exhibit 10. It is a situation where
18:10he's probably has an uphill battle to make this team due to the money implications, due to the
18:19possibility that the Celtics need that roster spot for a big more than a guard. But if you
18:24look down the line of the bench, but beyond white, Drew holiday, and Payne Pritchard,
18:32there's not a ton of guys that you can, you know, trust at this point, when we had Springer,
18:38you have, I mean, Jordan Walsh is more of a wing than a guard, but certainly he
18:43did not think you, you know, acquit himself very well in summer league this year. So it's hard to
18:49think that right now, okay, that is a guy that we can count on, you know, to be able to throw in
18:54spot duty here. And then you have Baylor Sherman, who is a bit of a wild card there, but his size
19:01wise, I think he's certainly going to be playing in guarding closer to like fours, as opposed to
19:07twos, just based on what he can handle from a defensive standpoint. And so now he's like,
19:14you go through that list of guys and it's like, all right, who, if, if injuries do arise to
19:20someone to white holiday or Pritchard, like where would we go in that situation? If forcing
19:25this is out. And I don't think there's a clear cut answer there with the guys that are on the roster.
19:31And so taking a flyer on a Lonnie Walker type is intriguing to me from that standpoint,
19:37because it does, that's a guy you're not, who's certainly, even if he makes the team,
19:43it's not going to be pushing for minutes every night. We'll certainly probably be out of the
19:47rotation, but if an injury arises, that's a NBA proven player. And maybe you've got them in the
19:55right position scheme wise, buying in defensively under Joe was a little like he's got an athletic
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21:28subscription is active. And now back to the show. The advanced numbers room, as Jay pointed out,
21:36have been pretty, pretty miserable, but maybe you get him in the right system,
21:44surrounded by the right teammates, and he becomes just average defensively or just slightly below
21:52average defensively. And that makes it enough where his offensive upside is able to counteract
21:59those defensive weaknesses. And so from that standpoint, it's a fun gamble. And so what
22:04his contract is essentially too, which is an interesting element of this, the Exhibit 10
22:10is essentially a non-guaranteed deal. But if the Celtics end up waving him and he goes on and
22:19plays for the main Celtics in the G League, then he'll get 77 grand extra as a bonus just for that.
22:27So he is now incentivized to stay in the system with the Celtics if he ends up getting cut.
22:37Now, obviously, if any other NBA team wants him or claims when he's on waivers and that
22:43becomes none, maybe he goes there. He's obviously going to take any NBA chance he gets at this
22:48point. But I'd assume at the very least, this deal was available, this type of deal certainly
22:54was available for him from a lot of different teams. And so he picked the Celtics for a reason.
23:00He's certainly a guy that needs to kind of rebuild his value. And how well he can actually
23:08do that in Boston remains to be seen given the tough road he has to getting minutes there.
23:16And you look at a guy like O'Shea Persett, who came here last year on a one-year deal at the
23:22minimum and thought he could show off his skills. And he obviously was a great fit behind the scenes,
23:28but on the court was kind of yanked around the rotation early on the year and
23:33eventually faded out of it and never really put together strong, consistent minutes
23:40over multiple weeks. And he's still out in the open market right now. I assume he can get
23:46a better deal than this that Lonnie Walker got from some team with maybe more guaranteed money
23:53involved. But it does make you wonder, just guys of that ilk in their mid-20s that
24:00don't have some type of limitation with Persett's case shooting and Lonnie Walker's
24:07case defense, it's becoming tougher for these guys to get the type of deals that they want.
24:14And if you don't strike early in his career, I mean, Lonnie Walker's situation is fascinating
24:19since he walked from the Spurs two years ago without a rookie extension, took kind of a
24:29sweetheart deal with the Lakers. And that did not work out well for him where he just had to
24:36settle for a new deal with the Nets. And now he's on to new reps from an agent standpoint.
24:45And I think that's a byproduct of he's in a pretty tough spot in his career. If he's already
24:50setting for this, we're at a point where he should be in his prime from an agent standpoint.
24:55So it's a situation where most of all, I'm just done that he had to settle for this type of deal
25:05at this point. As I talked to Jay about, he's had the proven track record of being able to be a
25:14spark plug in the playoffs as recently as two years ago in that series with the Lakers. And then he
25:20had a fine year, a really good shooting year with the Nets, but that's not enough right now.
25:25When things are getting tighter, teams have their priorities in terms of, all right,
25:32we want to win right now or we're building for the future. And Walker is a type of guy where
25:38he doesn't fit into either of those categories right now for a lot of teams. So now if he wants
25:45to be able to show, okay, I can be a winner, I can contribute to that. And I do know that
25:53the Celtics did have interest in him at the trade up line last year. They inquired on him
25:59because he was one of the few guys that would have fit from a salary standpoint in a deal.
26:05And Brad Stevens clearly made the right call to stick with what he had beyond
26:13bringing aboard Xavier Tillman, brought everyone in from who was clearly
26:18headfirst into a team, first mindset. That worked out quite well for this group.
26:23And so now going forward, it's going to be fascinating to see
26:27what the situation looks like for him. And the Celtics still have a couple other
26:33open roster spots heading into training camp. They have filled up all their two-way spots with
26:39Drew Peterson, JD Davidson, Anton Watson. We know Ron Harper Jr. is going to be there on exhibit 10.
26:47So there'll be a couple other training guys in there, but there'll be probably no one else
26:52realistically in contention for the 15th roster spot on that point outside of maybe
26:59one of those two-way guys if they blow the team away. But other than that,
27:04this is a team right now where I thought they're pretty close to set. But when there are still
27:12intriguing names on the open market, you wonder if we'll see another deal or two of this type,
27:17because I thought this was the type of deal that the Celtics would go a lot more
27:22for at the start of the summer or just be able to lure in some free agents of this type being like,
27:28hey, if you want to win, if you want to have a really good chance of the ring, come here.
27:35And that's something that this team hasn't had, obviously, for a very long time.
27:41The fact that they brought everyone back certainly limited this opportunity as a selling point,
27:47even in the wake of the Porzingis injury. But now at least one guy is buying on that,
27:55and his name is Lonnie Walker, and he will be in camp with the Celtics as they start off
28:02training camp in about a month from now. So it's a fun little angle for us to look at. We'll keep
28:09talking more about him. We'll check in more with Jay and Jim about this next week, see how the
28:14dominoes start to fall around the rest of the roster. But this is a standpoint. This is a pretty
28:21fascinating deal, a fascinating way to end August and adds a little bit of intrigue to training
28:27camp because, listen, for as hard it is for him to earn his spot in this team, if he plays well
28:35enough, I think the door is open there because he's the type of guy who can be an extra spark
28:43plug off your bench. And if one more injury hits with this team, they may very well need that,
28:49especially in the first two months of the regular season with Porzingis out.
28:52So that's it for now. My name is Brian Robb for JKing. Thanks for checking us out on Cionis
29:01YouTube. Thanks to our sponsors, PricePix, GameTime as well. And we will catch you guys
29:12in the episode later this week.
29:31and all that wild stuff.

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