Will the Bruins defense be the best in the NHL? | Pucks with Haggs
On this episode of Pucks with Haggs, Joe Haggerty and Mick Colageo answer Bruins fans questions, including how good the Bruins defense will be in front of their goalie tandem this coming season with one new goalie added to the mix.
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00:00Pucks with Hags is powered by PrizePix, the exclusive daily fantasy partner of the CLNS
00:11Media Network.
00:12Welcome to the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:13I believe this is the 111th episode, a very symmetrical episode of the Pucks with Hags
00:17podcast.
00:18I'm your host, Joe Hagerty.
00:19You can find my work at joehagerty.substack.com.
00:22Subscribe to a premium membership, get all of my NHL and hockey writing sent straight
00:25directly to your inbox.
00:26I also write columns for the Boston Sports Journal covering the Bruins.
00:31And with me today is my longtime friend and colleague, Mick Colaggio.
00:34Mick's going to be answering some questions from the Pucks with Hags mailbag with me.
00:38But Mick, please tell everybody where they can find your work.
00:40What I really should have done is put the scoreboard to one to one in the first period
00:47with a minute and 11 seconds remaining.
00:49That's it.
00:50The ones are wild all over the place.
00:53Yeah.
00:55So Triple Jeremy Swayman Day.
00:59You can read me at bostonhockeynow.com.
01:02I do a Sunday column there plus more.
01:05I write seasonal issues for the Hockey News.
01:08So the yearbook that's coming out shortly, unless it's already on the stands, I'm not
01:12sure.
01:13I get the Bruins section on that.
01:15And I also have my game day blog, Rink Wrap.
01:19So you can find me on x at Mick Colaggio, just like it says on my screen.
01:24There you go.
01:26So check that out.
01:27You won't be sorry.
01:28You did.
01:29Mick is fantastic.
01:30Let's thank our sponsors really quick.
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02:09All right, Mick, I don't think there's any Bruins news to speak of this week, right?
02:15I'm not missing anything that I'm forgetting about as far as Bruins.
02:19The biggest Bruins news of the last week, I think, was the new numbers for the new Bruins
02:24guys.
02:25That's pretty much it.
02:26Yeah, so Riley Tuft was assigned number 10, succeeding the great AJ Greer and many other
02:33great number 10s, Barry Peterson, Jon Rattel, et cetera, Carol Badnay.
02:40And we can name many more in recent years in a new arena era.
02:44But the subtext to all of that is the Bruins just went through their centennial season
02:49and are approaching their centennial game and still not a peep about the retirement
02:54of the great, great Bill Cowley's number 10.
02:58Two hard trophies, a point per game career over a decade in the NHL, almost entirely
03:05with the Bruins falling out at the end of his career with Art Ross and Bad Blood.
03:13And it never, ever got fixed.
03:16The guys in the Hall of Fame, the saying about Bill Cowley was, is that he made more wings
03:21than Boeing.
03:23And it just boggles my mind that this hasn't been done.
03:28And every conversation that comes up, there's a lot of dog day stuff about what number should
03:34go up next.
03:35And people argue about different people in more recent eras.
03:38And I'm like, hey, after you get Bill Cowley's number 10 up there, come back and ask me my
03:44opinion.
03:45And we'll start having a conversation.
03:46But to me, he's the non-starter for all of this.
03:49I like that.
03:50That's a Bruins deep cut.
03:52Mick should write a column about being angry that Bill Cowley has not gotten his just due.
03:57I agree.
03:58You look at all the numbers, you look at what he accomplishes in the Hall of Fame, they
04:01definitely should retire that number.
04:02I'm sure it's not about Bad Blood at this point, right?
04:07Everybody's long gone that would have had Bad Blood with Bill Cowley.
04:10The only thing I can possibly imagine is that Harry Sinden promised Art Ross on his deathbed
04:15that he would not have it done during his lifetime.
04:18And Harry's still with us.
04:20And Harry's my mom's age, and my mom left us a couple of Valentine's Days ago.
04:25And I haven't had a chance to talk with Harry in recent months, but I hope he's doing well.
04:32I think the guy's an incredibly underrated person in hockey history, a great visionary.
04:38But he could also hold on to something.
04:42I don't know.
04:43Yes.
04:44You don't get into grudges.
04:45You don't get into grudges with Irish people.
04:48You're going to end up losing.
04:49That's always the way it is.
04:50All right.
04:52So we're going to answer some questions this week.
04:55And I will say, I appreciated the eclectic number 70 choice for Junis Carposalo, which
05:02was Bo Quist's number last year.
05:04And do you know the first Bruins player to wear number 70, Mick?
05:08Wow.
05:09I think you're going to get me on that one.
05:13I don't think my brain's capable of coming up with that one right now.
05:16It's the immortal Matt Del Gordis.
05:17Do you remember him?
05:19Oh, really?
05:21Yes.
05:22Matt Del Giudice wore that?
05:23Del Giudice.
05:24Excuse me.
05:25Yes.
05:26I didn't realize that.
05:27That was his number?
05:28Yep.
05:29Wow.
05:30I would have guessed 35.
05:31Tim Thomas also wore that during 2003, whenever he made his appearances in 2003, he was wearing
05:37number 70.
05:38Right.
05:39He had a cup of coffee before the lockout.
05:40Yeah.
05:41Yep.
05:42Very eclectic choice by Carposalo there, picking number 70.
05:48Or he had it picked for him.
05:49Who knows?
05:50All right.
05:51We're going to read some.
05:53Some of these I answered last week, but I want to get your take on them too, Mick.
05:57First one is from Frederick underscore MVP on Twitter X, whatever you want to call it.
06:04And he had a series, he had a pop culture question, an NHL question, a Bruins question.
06:08Oh my.
06:09The pop culture question was what recent sports related documentary or series caught
06:13your attention and why it's worth a watch?
06:18I will say that I picked, and this isn't recent, this is the last couple of years.
06:23I really liked the winning time series on HBO about the building of the Lakers dynasty.
06:30It's kind of a dramatization sort of series.
06:32It's not really like a documentary.
06:35So like they pissed off Jerry West, pissed off Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
06:39They were kind of, you know, making them really sort of outlandish characters, really accentuating
06:44like some of their personality quirks beyond what they probably were, but really entertaining.
06:51I grew up in the eighties during the height of Celtics Lakers.
06:54So it's like, it was right in my wheelhouse watching them build with, it basically a series
06:59starts in like the late seventies when they draft Magic Johnson and they start building.
07:04And they had one episode where it's basically like a villain origin story that was all about
07:08Larry Bird in Indiana and him like growing up and his backstory.
07:12Like when he quit, when he quit Indiana University and left Bob Knight and that in the Hoosiers
07:19and ended up going to Indiana State and how that whole, whole thing happened and his family
07:23background and all that stuff.
07:24So all that, and the guy that played him was really good too.
07:26So I recommended that one big time, but that wasn't tremendously new.
07:31I know I saw there was a Pete Rose documentary.
07:34I think that's on HBO Max or Max or whatever they call it now that I'm definitely going
07:37to watch.
07:38Cause again, like I remember him from the eighties, big time, he's a, he was a big sort
07:43of personality and a, and a big baseball figure growing up in the eighties.
07:48But anybody that anything that you can think of?
07:52Well I'm a huge Jimmy Connors fan and I just watched the on ESPN plus they have classic
08:02Wimbledon and you can look at like the film that they did to encapsulate the entire tournament
08:12for different years.
08:14So I was enjoying watching a few of those most notably Jimmy Connors, 1982 triumph over
08:22John McEnroe which was the first year that Bjorn Borg was no longer playing in the tournament.
08:29And so, I mean, you have to really, you have to be a tennis guy or, or be from that era
08:37when tennis was pretty big.
08:41That was, that was water cooler stuff back then.
08:45And that unfortunately really fell off in the mid eighties for, for tennis.
08:51And even though we had an incredible generation of great American male players that came along
08:57all at once, Andre Agassi, Jim Currier, Pete Sampras, Michael Chang, David Wheaton, Todd Martin,
09:05incredible wave of talent that came into American tennis.
09:10But the sport, except for tennis people like myself, never grabbed America like it did
09:17during the era where, where the guys were basically self-centered a-holes, you know what I mean?
09:22Guys were like, but, but tennis, just, it was incredible back then between Ilya Nastassi
09:30and, and, and then Connors comes along and, you know, and, and so it, it just had a completely
09:38different flavor to it.
09:39And if you were into the sport, then you'd love to know players that you could like or
09:43hate or this or that.
09:45And, and everybody was into it and it was really something.
09:49So, so that was the thing that I, I kind of gravitated toward.
09:53I also like watching, I have like this thing in my old age where I'm starting to realize
09:59that I probably don't remember some things as well as I purport to, and that I should
10:05check on myself a little bit and find curiosity and say, I wonder if I really, if I watched,
10:11you know, like the Flyers 1975 repeat run to the top, if that would be something that
10:19I would notice something I'd never saw before, or if I'd be kind of like, yeah, I remember
10:23that, I remember that.
10:24And it's usually a pretty good mixture of the two, but I did just watch the, the Bruins
10:291972 run again.
10:32And I recently before that saw the 71 with Montreal, you know, and following their pathway
10:38all the way through after the, the unbelievable upset over the Bruins in the opening round.
10:43So that, so I, you know, I go back to stuff like that, but other than that, my TV watching
10:48is really kind of crazy.
10:51Because I'm a tennis guy, I really enjoyed this, this show that was done on Netflix called
10:58The Prince of Tennis, which was done in Mandarin Chinese with English subtitles.
11:03I probably watched the whole thing straight through at least twice.
11:06And it's like 40 minute episodes, and there's almost 40 of them.
11:10And I just love the character development, the stories and everything about it.
11:15And now there was just this one that I just finished watching a 16 episode series called
11:18Startup, which is in Korean, with English subtitles.
11:23And I don't know why the heck I gravitate to other stuff.
11:25But I it's really kind of, I don't know, maybe I just need to completely escape my world
11:30somehow and go into another one just for therapeutic reasons.
11:34And, and that's, and that's been sort of my late night TV watching of late, I just finished
11:39that show.
11:40And I and I like watching The Chosen.
11:42Nice.
11:43You know what I've liked watching, like, I've watched some of the Olympics, and you obviously
11:48watch NBC and like some of the Olympics, as they're jumping from event to event and sort
11:52of bouncing around like they do in the coverage.
11:55But I have Peacock, and you can go in there and basically watch anything on demand from
12:01the Olympics.
12:02Well, that's clearly what I'm missing then, because I have Netflix, I have Prime, I have
12:06ESPN Plus.
12:07No, Peacock is the one.
12:08I have Nessun, 360.
12:09Peacock has all the Olympic stuff.
12:11But I don't have Peacock.
12:13And because of that, I can't pick and choose.
12:15So anytime I try to watch anything through our YouTube TV, that it's doing Olympics,
12:21it's never what I want to watch.
12:23I'll watch like a chunk of a match or this or whatever they're showing.
12:29But I can't like go find what I want to watch, which has always been the things that I like
12:34the most about the Olympics.
12:35You can basically navigate in the Peacock.
12:38Once you get on there, you can navigate to the different sports and just basically watch
12:44like the whole game, the whole match, the whole day of competition.
12:48Like they have it all broken down by sport where you can watch everything.
12:50And I like to watch.
12:52It's funny.
12:53I'm not the biggest NBA guy, and I'm not like I'll watch basketball, I'll watch some basketball
12:58for sure.
12:59During the playoffs, I was watching the Celtics like I was much bigger when I was a kid watching
13:03than I am now.
13:05But I love watching international basketball.
13:10So I've loved watching like the World Cup basketball like last summer.
13:14I love watching all the Olympic games.
13:17And so I was I'll watch all of them.
13:19I'll watch Puerto Rico playing Japan.
13:21I'll watch, you know, like South Sudan playing Serbia.
13:26Like it doesn't matter.
13:27I'll watch all of those games.
13:29And I love like discovering these unbelievably great international players that aren't NBA
13:36players or like fringe NBA players that are like so, so good.
13:38Like this is a guy Kawamura on the on Team Japan.
13:42And I think he's in like the G League now for the NBA for like the Timberwolves or somebody.
13:47But he's this 23 year old five foot eight Japanese kid that is like their Steph Curry.
13:52And he is unbelievable.
13:54And there's like a handful of these guys that you see in the Olympics.
13:59This guy Obst, there's a three point shooter for Germany too.
14:02And Germany's got a lot of NBA players on their team.
14:05But like he is just unbelievable too.
14:07Great shooter.
14:08Really good player.
14:09Has never come to North America.
14:10Has always played in Germany.
14:11Clearly, I think could play in the NBA if he wanted to or at least try.
14:16But I've always enjoyed when the Olympics come watching all these games to watch all
14:20these players.
14:21And it continues.
14:22We've talked about this before.
14:23It always boggles your mind how great some players are that never make it to like, you
14:27know, the North American pro sports leagues for whatever reason.
14:33Well, it's not that way in boxing about Teofilo Stevenson in the 70s.
14:36This guy had a right hand like you, like you don't believe.
14:40I mean, he kind of like Tommy, picture Tommy Hearns is a heavyweight.
14:43Yeah.
14:44And the guy who's just stalking his opponent and just like waiting for that perfect moment
14:49where he's going to throw this straight right.
14:51And that just ends the fight.
14:53I remember one time he hit John Tate with it.
14:55And Tate kind of like looked like he was kind of like, oh darn, I got hit.
15:00And he starts walking away and then he realizes I'm out on my feet.
15:05And he like walks all the way from the middle of the ring along the ropes to the corner
15:08and then collapses.
15:09I mean, that's that's how powerful.
15:12And I always wondered how would Stevenson do against Joe Frazier?
15:15How would he do against Jerry Quarry?
15:17How would he do against Foreman?
15:19How would he do against Ali?
15:20You know, I mean, it's you look at this kind of a champion from Cuba who was in a communist
15:26situation and would never, ever compete against the top heavyweights in the world.
15:30And it was a tragedy that we never got to see that.
15:33So anytime somebody says we shouldn't do that, we should have just amateurs in the Olympics.
15:38I say to myself, you know something, if if Stevenson came along now, we would have gotten
15:43to see it.
15:44Yeah.
15:45And, you know, and we'll never know now, you know, how we would have done.
15:49But the guy had a devastating straight right.
15:51And so there are a lot of things about Olympic boxing that has always been intriguing and
15:56wondering if, you know, somebody is going to be all that in a bag of chips or if they're
15:59or if they, you know, fizzle out as a pro and not be that big a deal or are we really
16:03looking at something great here?
16:05And if you want the best competition, if you want to say you're the best in the world at
16:08anything, you really need to have the pros involved in it.
16:12You know, and I think, honestly, like it's probably I'm sure it's more of a thrill for
16:18the rest of those international basketball players that the NBA guys are on those teams.
16:23And it's a true like best against best competition.
16:26And they can see how they stack up to and, you know, teams.
16:30Go ahead.
16:31The one thing we've lost.
16:32The one thing we've lost.
16:33And then let's you know, we could talk hockey now is.
16:38You could see how all the Czech players skated.
16:41Yeah.
16:42In the 1970s, when they do the Olympics, you'd see how the Russian players skated, how they'd
16:46move the puck.
16:48Every country conceptualized their sport a different way because you didn't have this
16:55melting pot sharing of information that exploded after the summit series.
17:01And essentially, you know, you know, by the 80s, the West, the best Western European players
17:06were in the NHL.
17:07By the 90s, the best Eastern European players were in the NHL.
17:11And so now everybody looks more like each other.
17:15Yeah.
17:16And they can play and learn so much from each other that the tendencies and the nuances
17:22are barely recognizable in many cases.
17:25And and unfortunately, that was a quality of the experience of learning how other people
17:30think the sport that was a huge part of the Olympics in the 70s that to me has been lost.
17:38You know, you get these phenoms in gymnastics or or any of these sports like figure skating
17:46that are really, you know, will be resonating and be something that everybody's talking
17:51about the night for weeks to come.
17:54And these days, it just seems to me like it's so much about rah, rah, rah, USA, USA.
18:02I can't watch five minutes on the regular channels without seeing more commercial time
18:08than actual action.
18:09Yeah.
18:10And half of the actual action is cutaways to the crowd flashing, you know, go USA signs.
18:15And I'm like, oh, stop selling me.
18:17I'm already here.
18:18You don't need to sell me.
18:19I bought it.
18:20I'm here.
18:21I'm in the door.
18:22Just show me the damn game.
18:23Last point before we move on back to hockey stuff.
18:26The one thing I will say to kind of counterpoint that a little bit when you were talking about
18:31everybody playing the same in basketball, like the one thing when you watch international
18:36basketball is that the U.S. they win because of the size of the players that they have,
18:43the athleticism of the players that they have.
18:46Like you can just see that they're just like athletically bigger, stronger, faster, like
18:50all of that.
18:52And there's obviously like Steph Curry's unbelievable or LeBron James, a superstar.
18:57Other countries can't really match that star power either that some of those guys have
19:00just the sheer innate talent as many.
19:04But the one thing that you do see when you're watching these tournaments is a lot of these
19:09European countries are so much better than the U.S. when it comes to skills, when it
19:15comes to actually playing the game, when it comes to instinct, when it comes to like being
19:19smart players that, you know, use that will do little detail oriented things and just
19:26the passing and the shooting, like everybody can shoot, everybody can pass, like all the
19:30skill development that they're doing in Europe.
19:33And this is something that the U.S.
19:34USA Hockey, to their credit, has figured out.
19:37And like they saw that Russia and all these other teams were doing different things, and
19:41they adopted some of that stuff to what they do and sort of melded it to what they do.
19:46So they like caught up and it was sort of the reverse, I think, for hockey.
19:50But in fact, we were extremely infatuated with all things Soviet.
19:55And we even had you could go into a hockey rink in 1974 and see a three by five card on
20:01the bulletin board when you're walking in, telling you that they could sharpen your
20:05skates the Soviet way, you know, all kinds of crazy crap.
20:08Totally. But I mean, so but just that supports your point that when something else comes
20:13along, like a Valerie Harlem offer in the case of the of the way you're talking about
20:17now, maybe because maybe because basketball is so predominantly American, except for
20:22the for the superstar that comes in the way of the way a Japanese superstar can come
20:28into Major League Baseball, maybe because we get some of these Eastern European phenoms
20:32that come into the NBA and it's becoming more of a world game, but it's not it's still
20:37very much an American game.
20:39And therefore, when we do get to see it on the international stage, you're seeing more
20:43of what I was celebrating from hockey the way it was in the 70s with contrasting styles
20:48and conception of how you play the sport, how you think.
20:51Well, and the problem, though, is I think what you're also finding is that it's because
20:55USA basketball has turned into a tournament's playing tons of games and not enough
21:01practice. And like a lot of the things that they're talking about, they're problematic
21:05that like with youth hockey as well.
21:07I think that is a real problem with basketball where they're not developing the right
21:11instincts to play the game because they're not practicing enough and they're not having
21:15an environment where they're really being drilled down on the skills and playing the
21:19game correctly and developing good instincts instead of just playing games all the time
21:23and not getting enough practice time.
21:25And like part of it, too, is just that like USA basketball, so much of that is revolved
21:30around in the youth basketball is revolved around actually winning.
21:33So it turns into like, you know, I so give a guy the ball and everybody stand away from
21:39him and let him do his thing.
21:40I hated basketball in the 90s for that reason.
21:43It seems like a game of one on one with eight guys on the floor watching.
21:46And I hated that because and I'm coming off of the greatest era of what they shouldn't
21:52call it that the 60s is probably the Celtics greatest era and then the 70s and the 80s.
21:56But the 80s of the one decade that the team owned the town of Boston, that I will say
22:01that the big three era of the Celtics and they play beautiful ball, especially as close
22:05to the basket. They were incredible that way, the way they would finish plays.
22:10And and nowadays, because the three point shot is so predominant in the NBA because
22:16that's what their analysts are telling them, even when they push the ball, they seem to
22:21be doing it just to back up the defense far enough to kick it back out so they can go
22:26and contest. And the guys are so good at shooting these threes now that it does it does
22:32really take the wind out of my sails for watching regular season hoop if I know that the
22:37Celts are going to win because Tatum was hot or that they're going to lose because Tatum
22:40was not. And if it's that simple, then I just you know, I used to love it when there was
22:46a third quarter push, you know, and and the games you could really get into it then.
22:51And nowadays, I mean, I follow the playoffs.
22:54So I'm so thrilled to see them win because I really I love Joe Mazzola.
22:59And I ran into him once at the Shaw's underneath TD Garden when I was leaving after a
23:04Bruins presser. And this wasn't this past season, but the one before he was in the middle
23:09of the playoffs and he was using the self-serve right next to me and he had a playoff
23:13game that night and I and I saw him and I just told him how my best friend, we both grew
23:18up skating on the ponds and playing hockey and being obsessed with the Bruins and the
23:21Canadians and everything else. And and yet he lives and dies with the Celtics, my pal.
23:26He thinks of them as like his grandchildren.
23:28He's no big analyst or anything, but he just absolutely has great passion for watching
23:32every single game. And I told him this and he goes, oh, that's how he goes.
23:35Tell him I said hi. You know, it's just the sweetest guy.
23:38And so I'm thrilled that they figured it out and they got there and they did it.
23:44That said, you know, I don't know how the heck, you know, the NBA popularity isn't soaring
23:53now. It's incredible. So so good for the Celtics.
23:57Good for them. Good for him. And and hopefully they keep tuning out the noise, you know,
24:03and maybe they can do a couple of more.
24:05Yeah, absolutely. Joe Mizzou, a great guy. He lives in Newton. So I see him quite a bit.
24:10He and his wife and his two sons, awesome people.
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25:12Last minute tickets. Lowest price guaranteed NHL question. And I kind of pounced on this
25:17one because I I didn't think of I couldn't think of anything that was that would give
25:22any a team an advantage going into the season. But the question is with the new rule changes
25:28for the season, which team is most likely to benefit and how I couldn't think of any
25:32like significant rule changes that I thought were going to benefit any team, any rule changes
25:38going into the season that would have any like big benefit. Am I missing something?
25:43Is there a new rule? No. Well, I I think there was a couple of subtle changes, but nothing
25:48like significant. And I don't we don't know yet if there's going to be any changes as
25:52far as like them policing any like infraction more than they usually do, which they try
25:58to do every year. There's always a penalty, but they don't announce that. No, that's
26:02just something they visit the teams with during training camp and say, hey, we're going to
26:06emphasize this because they're not changing how they write that book. They're just changing
26:09what they're going to call them, what standards they're looking for, like they did when they
26:13came back from the lockout year and they went into everybody and said, OK, you're a defenseman.
26:17If you have both hands on your stick and your stick is in the hands of the is making contact
26:22with the opponent, you go into the box. We don't care. Oh, no, I didn't hook him. I had
26:26it like that. We don't we don't want it. So they they decided in order for us to free
26:31up the game and free up the skill, then we need to penalize the crap out of the defenseman
26:36until they get the message and revise how to contain. And that was a big problem for
26:41Brian Leach when he was playing that in one year he played for the Bruins. He was an old
26:46dog trying to teach new tricks to on how to contain and defend as a stick defender. He
26:51was brilliant in the old school ways of stick defense. He he had to completely reinvent
26:56himself by midseason. He was doing that and then he got injured. Yeah, it would have been
27:00a big problem for Finn last weekend in the summer game, too, because he had to play where
27:04he back checked, cut up to this kid from behind that was going in to score a goal, lifted
27:11his stick. And I don't know what happened next, but they tangled up. The next thing
27:16I knew, the kid stick went flying 10 feet into the end boards and Finn picked up, passed
27:21it to one of his teammates and they scored a short and a goal going the other way. He
27:26definitely would have been called if they were at some of you play. He definitely would
27:29have been called for a penalty if that was if that was the refs looking for for that
27:33kind of stuff. But like I was, I was amazed when I watched it, how far the kid stick went
27:38after he stripped him of the puck and somehow he got the puck and ended up going the other
27:41way. So good play by him, but I'm not sure there wasn't a penalty in their Bruins question.
27:48Can you evaluate the Bruins Swayman situation? Mick, what's your evaluation on the Bruins
27:55Swayman situation? I've said it enough, so I want to get your take. Yeah.
28:03I think they got here in good faith and they have details to work out. And maybe there's
28:12a disagreement over the number by about a million bucks. But I can't imagine that when
28:18they run out of time and both sides become more desperate and they realize what's at
28:23stake that they're not going to meet in that rubber room and get it done. Yeah. You know,
28:29so I just feel like if it's a million bucks, that's turns into like almost 10 million when
28:35it's a seven, eight year contract. So that's a significant amount of money. It's a significant
28:39amount of money is right. And that's why it's being that's why it's this is this is Jeremy
28:45Swayman's one shot at this. Now, if he's got another shot at this after this one, then
28:50that will have worked out famously for both sides. Both team, both sides are going to
28:55benefit incredibly well out of this negotiations. If if if there's another chance for Jeremy
29:02Swayman to do this in seven or eight years. So but so assuming but taking it as as his one shot
29:09at this, then each side's going to do their due diligence. And unfortunately, for that means is
29:17use up every second you got. And that's to me is true to the M.O. of modern hockey management in
29:24general, Don Sweeney in particular. They they are gonna they never do anything today that they can
29:31do tomorrow. They they they let they let things sort themselves out and settle and yeah, and sure
29:39that they've communicated and everybody knows where they are. And and it's, you know, until
29:43until they hear that voice go off in their head that says last minute of playing the period last
29:48minute, then, you know, then they're going to going to have to get going. Yeah, I wouldn't
29:55panic either unless if you're a Bruins fan, I wouldn't be tremendously worried about any of
30:00this. Unless you hear that Jeremy Swain and like packed up all this stuff and went back to Alaska.
30:04If something like that happens, then then it might be like a problem. Then then you might want to
30:10start like getting nervous a little bit or wondering. So you're going to see a I have Jeremy
30:14Swayman at the Alaska Airlines again. Yeah, exactly. So you're going to see all kinds of crap
30:20like that. And, you know, funny little fake things, things that will be tongue in cheek, things that
30:25will be, you know, trying to take themselves seriously and causing mass panic in the streets,
30:30causeway, you know, canal. You know, it's it's I, I feel like I've sat through too many of these
30:38things to to ever get riled up about it again. Yeah.
30:47And I think you get the benefit of the doubt with Don Sweeney and this Bruins group too, that
30:50they've they've managed those situations really well when they have big contracts like this, and
30:54it's never become a lingering problem. So you give him the benefit of the doubt as well. All
30:59right, this is from Roger Perry on the Facebook fan page. Roger Perry always has really good
31:03questions. So this is another good one. And I saved I carried this one over from last week as
31:08well, because I never covered this player during my career with the Bruins. So hi, Joe, my
31:14favorite Bruins, my favorite Bruin of all time, Ray Bork, celebrated a birthday this week. Could
31:19either you or your guests please share a favorite story about Ray that might not be as well known
31:24to Bruins fans? Thanks. So like I give you a chance to tell any kind of a favorite Ray Bork
31:32story that you might have for many interactions that you've had with him. And I think you
31:37covered him for a bit, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I covered the Bruins when Ray was just on the
31:44tired side of all of those, those two Stanley Cup finals and the two other conference finals. So I
31:52covered my first year covering the Bruins was the last of those conference finals, when he was
31:57still in his prime and, and, and then, you know, right up through the end of that decade
32:02transition to the new rink, and the, and then finally his trade request. So, so yeah, I mean, for
32:12me, I was at a game as a fan during the 80-81 season, which was Ray Bork's sophomore season. And
32:21they were playing the Buffalo Sabres. And this was a goal that you've seen on YouTube many times,
32:28probably, but Ray's killing a penalty. And he goes back for the puck, and looks like he's going to circle
32:35the net, net darts away, heads up ice, dekes a couple of guys, gets the puck inside the Buffalo
32:41line, flicks a wrist shot, top corner goal. I'm in the balcony. I can tell you that only six seasons
32:55after Bobby Orr that there was still a lot of fans in that building that had seen Bobby Orr play. And the
33:05standing ovation for that goal was about, thank you for making us remember what it was like to see Bobby
33:17Orr play. Because he did something that was very Orr-like. And Ray had his own style. He used about, you
33:27know, a whole roll of friction tape on his stick heel to toe. He played with great energy. And he, especially
33:38in his early years, he was like shot out of a cannon every time he got the puck. He played such up-tempo
33:44scale, a way of advancing the puck. It wasn't contemplative at all. He was go, go, go. And, and he tried to play
33:53the whole game with ferocity. I loved watching him play in those late 80s years when he'd go in the corner and
34:03you'd see three Hartford Whalers go flying and he'd come out with a puck. I mean, this guy could do it all. I
34:09mean, he, I used to think back then, is it possible that there's a guy who is this good and nobody realizes it? But
34:23wherever the puck was, no matter which team had it, I couldn't imagine in that era, there being a better player. And I
34:32know that Gretzky was widely considered the greatest of all time, that Mario Lemieux had allegiance befitting a guy who
34:43was like a gigantic John Beliveau. And Ray Bourque didn't even get his first Norris trophy until the 86-87 season, which
34:55was pretty deep in his, that's his eighth NHL season. He hadn't won one yet. That was absurd. By the 84-85 season, he had
35:05become that three zone monster. And, and that carried forward, you know, he got one more in 93-94 because he put up good
35:15point totals. And, but really, that sweet spot of his career from like 87 to 91, where he was playing half the game every
35:26night, and the Bruins were going deep in the playoffs. And, and he was pretty much carrying that team on his back. That's as
35:34good a hockey player as I have seen since Bobby Orr. And if you took, and I used to think that if you took five players, five, give me,
35:45give me one name, give you one name, and I get five of those in front of the goalie of their choice, I think Ray Bourque beats
35:52everybody not named Bobby Orr. And, and I'd only believe that, I wouldn't believe that if I hadn't seen Bobby Orr play myself.
36:00Yep.
36:01But, but Ray Bourque was a tremendous, tremendous hockey player in all facets. And, you know, it's, it's an old, old story by now. But it's
36:12really kind of sad that he never got to win one with the Bruins. Because he was his heart and soul as they come. And they got close a
36:23couple of times. Unfortunately, they weren't, they, they, they ran into a dynasty, you know, a team that was just a, one of the, anybody's
36:32short list of one hand, count them, all time great hockey teams. And that's who they run into when they play and, and in the final or the
36:41semi or whatever. And, and they were never that good, but, but he was. And I got more joy out of watching him play for more years of my
36:50life than probably any other player.
36:53That is a, as good an endorsement as you're going to get. I like that, Mick. That's a good memory of Ray Bourque.
36:58It changed how I wanted to play hockey. It changed how I wanted to think when I went back to get the puck as a beer league defenseman.
37:04There you go.
37:05The way I wanted to pass it, the way I wanted to, to, to curl with it, the way I wanted to, to push it and snap it in the direction of that
37:13stick. And, and, and the way I wanted to corral it, the way I wanted to tape my stick. It was a very, very influential player in my life.
37:22Very cool. I wish, I wish I had been able to cover him. You know, that would have been a lot of fun. I feel very lucky and privileged to
37:29have covered Bergey for, you know, just about 20 years. And I'm sure covering Ray, it's similar feeling, you know, having been able to
37:39watch him for a while. It's just cool to be around greatness or being near it. It really is. All right. Another question here, still
37:46trying to get over trading all mark and picking up last year's worst goalie for four years and 3 million. When he starts looking like a leaky
37:54sieve next year, do you think the fans booing will finally drown out the laughter from Ottawa or just make it worse from a very salty Tilden
38:02underscore bill on Twitter, who clearly is not a corporate solo fan. And I've said this before a couple of times, like corporate solo comes
38:11down to being a like, mildly expensive backup goalie a little more than you probably want to pay for a backup goalie. Certainly more years than
38:19you would want to lock up for a backup goalie. But by the same token, I think you want to have somebody that's got a track record and somebody
38:28that's a veteran player. After you've traded all mark and you're going with Swainman as your number one and handing him a ton of money, you're
38:34going to want a little bit of an insurance policy just in case there's any kind of adjustment on Swayman's part to like bumping up and playing 60
38:43plus games for the first time or just having the pressure of the contract and the expectations and everything else on his shoulders. If there's any kind
38:51of a if there's any kind of an adjustment period for that kind of thing, you're going to want to have somebody that's a veteran around that you can
38:59rely on that's played almost 300 games in the NHL and been pretty good most of the most of the time. He wasn't last year, obviously, for a bad Ottawa
39:05team. But I'd feel better about having somebody like that than I would have in somebody like Brandon Bussey, who is very unproven, even if the ceiling
39:12might be a little higher for him. And he's certainly cheaper.
39:16If Swayman was at the end of this contract, he's about to sign instead of the beginning. Yeah, then then Bussey is probably the way to go. Yeah, but but he's
39:26not. And so in that regard, you know, I mean, Anton Hudobin, I'm not sure how far along he was when Tuca was the Bruins goalie in the 13 season and they
39:38went to the final against Chicago.
39:40He'd had a handful of pro years, I want to say he'd had at least like three or four years, I think.
39:45Yeah. And Tuca had had that 0-9-10 season. So he had been around. He seemed like a seasoned guy as far as very similar to Swayman at that point. And and so
39:55Tuca, you know, taking the reins in the 13 season, and and he was tremendous. You know, he, he turned what should have been a coin flip series into a sweep in the
40:09conference final. And, and really, and Hudobin just seemed like the perfect backup. But again, just like the Bruins fourth line, you knew it was going to age out, that he was
40:19going to have a contract situation that the Bruins couldn't keep compete with. I think that later in Tuca's career, when injuries were creeping in the Halak thing worked
40:27famously, it was a great idea. I think this is similar to that as far as like in terms of looking at the whatever reasons in this case, you're going for that similar
40:37value in a, in a backup. And, you know, with with the Bruins goalie coaching, that's obviously proven itself over the years, that they can take guys who are bad in bad
40:49situations and, and take a sad song and make it better.
40:55And last one, and this one is kind of goalie related to I see Swayman as number one and Corpus Allo number two, but what if there's some kind of disaster, like Corpus Allo
41:05doesn't do it, is it time for Bussie? What's the plan going forward after 2024-25 for the Bruins in net? Sway and Bussie, and please tell me the blue line gets better in 2024. I think the blue line is
41:18definitely going to be better in 2024. With Zdorov coming into the picture with Lowry having a year under his belt, like I thought the blue line was pretty good last year, but they're going to be, they're primed to be very, very good, I think.
41:31They're going to be better in the league now.
41:32Yes, this year and beyond. And that's going to help the goaltending, obviously. But like, look, if Corpus Allo is terrible, which I don't see happening, but if somehow he was terrible, he's going to get sent to Providence, they're going to have to eat that money, Bussie will come up, and I think they will have to make that move at some point if he's really, really bad. I just don't see Corpus Allo, especially with a strong Bruins team, especially with goalie Bob, especially with him having been good
42:01in instances where he's been playing behind a good team. I don't see that. I think he's going to be fine. I think, like I said, and I've said many, many times, he is going to be a mildly expensive, overpaid backup goaltender. Not a huge deal. You're not giving him a ton of money. The term is definitely probably longer than you would want. But that's going to, that the expense for the backup goalie in that term as the years go on and the cap goes up is going to seem less and less and be less of a big deal.
42:29So I think it's going to be Swayman and Corpus Allo for the next four years, unless they can spin Corpus Allo if he has a good year and trade him somewhere and get somebody to take half of the money or something like that.
42:40Hey, when Montreal became a shit show early in the 95-96 season, Patrick Waugh was a shit show. He wants to go to Colorado and becoming Patrick Waugh again, because he was in a good situation and it got repaired. He just compared Corpus Allo to Patrick Waugh. No, the situation with goaltenders is that they're often at the end of the factory, where they have to take all the mistakes and live with them.
43:10And if you're in a dysfunctional situation, sometimes that's going to be, you can't judge a player on that when you're going to give them a good situation. That's what they did with Allmark. Now, granted, Allmark was performing better in this bad situation than Corpus Allo did last year, but they have other data on Corpus Allo. The year before, he was traded to the Kings at the deadline. His regular season is excellent. It's only 11 games, but it was outstanding.
43:33And his playoff was good, too.
44:03And I don't see any reason not to look at this like another good goalie from Finland, who's going to be in a good situation in a limited role, in a competitive limited role. I think it's a well thought out plan. It makes perfect sense to me.
44:33It does. And the bottom line, too, is that Jeremy Swayman's the number one. He's going to play 60 plus games when he's getting paid $7 million a year, or whatever he's going to get paid when they finally get the contract done. He's going to be playing the lion's share of the games. He's going to be excellent behind a defense that I agree with you. I think the Bruins defense is going to be one of the best in the league next year, based on Zdorov coming in, based on what they have, based on Lowry having a full year under his belt.
45:03And just getting better and better, and the talent that they have aside from that. Carlo Zdorov, Lindholm, McEvoy is your top four, is outstanding. I think that's an excellent top four. And then your guys on the bottom pairing, Peek and Lowry, are young players that are just going to keep getting better, I think. And both, I think, have good futures in the league.
45:28I really liked what I saw of Andrew Peek in the time that he played. I think he's probably going to end up being a perfect bottom pairing defenseman, a physical, in-your-face kind of guy. But I saw potential there for him to be a top four as he matures and improves, and if he's on a good team. He's going to be a guy that's going to compete for more minutes, for sure.
45:50And then you have Witherspoon behind that as a great number seven right now. You know, that's an outstanding seven.
45:56Yeah, outstanding seven.
46:27It is, and it's huge for the Bruins. Like, I just think the talent on this team is going to make the goalie look good. And if the goalie's elite, he's going to be even better. He's going to be like otherworldly many nights if he's playing behind a talented group like that in front of him.
46:42Like, I really think Corposalo's going to be fine. I think Jeremy Swaiman's going to be excellent once his contract gets done. As long as they stay healthy and Swaiman can deal. You know, he's never played more than 44 games in a season. That's the only question I have about him. That's the only thing everybody wants.
46:57That's why you want a good backup.
46:58Yeah, exactly. But like, he's also going to have to play more. Like, he's going to have to play 50 to 60 games, probably 55, somewhere in there.
47:07Yeah, there's going to be a burnout member they don't want to touch when they want to get where they really want to go. They don't want him tired.
47:12Yeah, but if he's getting paid seven to eight million a year, he's going to have to play more. There's no doubt about it. It doesn't have to be, you know, 65 games, but it's definitely got to be more than 44, more than 50.
47:24And we'll see how he does. But I think they're both going to be fine behind that kind of a team.
47:29All right. Thank you for the questions this week, Mick. Thank you very much for joining us. Let's also thank our sponsors real quick.
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48:13Download GameTime today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Mick, thank you very much for joining us, my friend.
48:19Pleasure.
48:20Everybody else out there, thank you for listening. We'll see you at the rink.