The Senate Homeland Security Committee Holds A Hearing On Pending Nominations

5 months ago

The Senate Homeland Security Committee held a hearing on Thursday on pending nominations.

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Transcript

00:00:00to serve as commissioners on

00:00:08the postal regulatory

00:00:09commission for additional

00:00:10terms.

00:00:11And also Carmen Eguina, right?

00:00:18Eguina, senator.

00:00:19Eguina.

00:00:20Eguina.

00:00:21Gonzales and Joseph Palmore to

00:00:24be associate judges on the

00:00:26district of Columbia court of

00:00:28appeals.

00:00:28Some of you I've known for a

00:00:30long time.

00:00:31And to your friends and family

00:00:33that are sitting back.

00:00:34If you're a friend or family of

00:00:36one of our nominees, would you

00:00:37raise your hand?

00:00:38All right.

00:00:39All right.

00:00:40Good.

00:00:41Thank you.

00:00:42If you're a friend or family and

00:00:43you don't want to be identified,

00:00:45would you?

00:00:46All right.

00:00:47Do you have any parents here?

00:00:49Any parents of these kids up

00:00:51here?

00:00:52Thank you for raising these

00:00:54young people and providing for

00:00:58them good values and good

00:01:00examples so they may want to

00:01:02serve our country as they do.

00:01:04But we welcome all of our

00:01:05nominees and friends and family

00:01:07who have joined us for this

00:01:09hearing today.

00:01:10Congratulations on your

00:01:12nominees, nominations.

00:01:13And we thank you for your

00:01:14willingness to serve and to

00:01:15continue to serve in what are

00:01:17important roles.

00:01:19The postal regulatory

00:01:20commission, also known

00:01:22affectionately as the PRC,

00:01:25people's republic of, no, not

00:01:27the PRC.

00:01:29Postal regulatory commission is

00:01:31a bipartisan body, as you may

00:01:33know, that provides independent

00:01:35oversight of the postal service.

00:01:37Postal service plays an

00:01:38essential role connecting

00:01:40communities across our nation.

00:01:42And the PRC plays an essential

00:01:44role in ensuring that the postal

00:01:46service is effectively carrying

00:01:48out its public service mandate.

00:01:51Commissioners Fisher and

00:01:53polling, glad to see you both

00:01:56again.

00:01:57Yesterday we were had the

00:02:01opportunity at a celebration of

00:02:04the life of former senator Joe

00:02:06Lieberman and Susan and I were

00:02:08there and a bunch of our

00:02:09colleagues were there.

00:02:10We talked about you.

00:02:11And she said how proud she was

00:02:14of having worked for you.

00:02:16Or was it the other way around?

00:02:18But we're grateful for your work

00:02:20on the commission, both of you,

00:02:22over the last five years.

00:02:24And I'd add that we're also glad

00:02:26to have you back as former

00:02:28committee staff members.

00:02:30Turning to our judicial nominees

00:02:32Ms. Agena, my Gonzales and Mr.

00:02:37Palmore, the district of Columbia

00:02:39court of appeals serves as the

00:02:41highest state level appellate

00:02:43court here in our nation's

00:02:45capital.

00:02:46Currently two of the court's

00:02:47eight associate judge seats are

00:02:49vacant, slowing cases and

00:02:51delaying resolutions for the

00:02:53parties before the court.

00:02:55And we welcome again each of

00:02:57you.

00:02:58Today's hearing is an important

00:03:00opportunity for this committee

00:03:01to learn more about your

00:03:02qualifications and how you plan

00:03:04to serve in these important

00:03:05roles and in some cases how

00:03:07you've already served in these

00:03:08important roles.

00:03:10My script here says that I'm to

00:03:12recognize senator Paul.

00:03:14He has not yet arrived and I'm

00:03:16sure when he does he'll be

00:03:18recognized and have the

00:03:19opportunity as the ranking

00:03:20member, senior republican on the

00:03:22committee to speak.

00:03:24I understand we get to square in

00:03:26our witnesses.

00:03:27Is that true?

00:03:28Is that true?

00:03:29All right.

00:03:32I'm going to ask the four of you

00:03:34to stand if you will.

00:03:38Thank you.

00:03:42Are you ready?

00:03:44I'm going to ask the four of you

00:03:46to raise your right hand,

00:03:47please.

00:03:48And do you swear that the

00:03:50testimony that you will give

00:03:52before this committee will be the

00:03:54whole truth and nothing but the

00:03:56truth to help you guide?

00:03:59Maybe you say thank you.

00:04:04Not every committee, for those

00:04:05who are witnesses, not every

00:04:07committee swears on their

00:04:08witnesses but when they have

00:04:09dubious backgrounds and we're

00:04:11not sure their character we'll

00:04:12have them take the oath just to

00:04:14be sure.

00:04:15I'm kidding.

00:04:18All right.

00:04:20Our first nominee is a woman who

00:04:22needs no introduction.

00:04:24She's a senior in the office of

00:04:26the commissioner.

00:04:27She's the only woman in this

00:04:29room.

00:04:30Ann Fisher nominated for a

00:04:31second term as a commissioner on

00:04:33the postal regulatory

00:04:34commission.

00:04:35She began her tenure as a

00:04:36commissioner in August of 2019

00:04:38after being confirmed by the

00:04:40senate by voice vote.

00:04:42Ms. Fisher has served in the

00:04:44federal government for 31 years

00:04:46since the age of eight.

00:04:47Is that right?

00:04:48No.

00:04:49That is a typo.

00:04:51During her 12 years on Capitol

00:04:53Hill she was the deputy staff

00:04:55director of this committee.

00:04:56She began her tenure at the

00:04:58postal regulatory commission in

00:05:002007 as its chief of staff and

00:05:02later served as the

00:05:04commissioner's director of public

00:05:06affairs and government

00:05:07relations.

00:05:08Ms. Fisher is a graduate of the

00:05:10university of South Dakota with

00:05:12an MA in economics and she has a

00:05:16BS in mathematics from

00:05:18Minnesota state university.

00:05:21Welcome, Ms. Fisher.

00:05:22I would like to start with your

00:05:24opening remarks.

00:05:25Thank you.

00:05:26Please proceed.

00:05:27Thank you, senator carper.

00:05:28I am honored to appear before

00:05:30you today as a nominee for a

00:05:32second term at the postal

00:05:33regulatory commission.

00:05:34I'm also very grateful to

00:05:36president Biden and leader

00:05:37McConnell for nominating me.

00:05:39Though my family wasn't able to

00:05:41join me today I want to thank my

00:05:43husband Dave and my daughters

00:05:45for their endless love and

00:05:47support.

00:05:48I would also like to thank my

00:05:50parents, Paul and Catherine

00:05:52for their continued support of

00:05:54me as long-time civil servants.

00:05:56My dad is a counselor for the

00:05:58South Dakota department of

00:05:59labor and my mom is a registered

00:06:01nurse for the South Dakota

00:06:02department of social services.

00:06:04This may mark my 31st year of

00:06:06federal employment.

00:06:07All but two of those years

00:06:08involving work on postal issues.

00:06:10My career began in the U.S.

00:06:12Senate working for senator Larry

00:06:14Pressler of South Dakota.

00:06:15I also had the privilege of

00:06:17working for senators Thad

00:06:19Cochran of Mississippi and Susan

00:06:21McCarthy of Minnesota.

00:06:23It was during my 30 years in the

00:06:25Senate that I served as deputy

00:06:27staff director to chairman

00:06:28Collins on the homeland security

00:06:30and governmental affairs

00:06:31committee.

00:06:32Together after countless postal

00:06:34reform hearings and endless bill

00:06:36negotiations we were able to

00:06:38celebrate passage of the postal

00:06:40accountability and enhancement

00:06:41act of 2006.

00:06:42In 2007 I moved over to the

00:06:44postal regulatory commission to

00:06:46serve as chief of staff to then

00:06:48chairman Dan Blair.

00:06:49I later became the commission's

00:06:51chief of staff.

00:06:52In 2019 I was appointed by

00:06:54president Trump to serve as a

00:06:56commissioner.

00:06:57Throughout my career I have

00:06:58always found tremendous value in

00:07:00meeting with postal employees and

00:07:02various stakeholders within

00:07:03their own environment.

00:07:04This past year I met with plant

00:07:06managers at postal processing and

00:07:08distribution centers in Sioux

00:07:10Falls, South Dakota and Fargo,

00:07:12North Dakota.

00:07:13I visited with postmasters at

00:07:15post offices in Sioux Falls,

00:07:17Harrisburg and Brookings, South

00:07:19Dakota, Topeka, Kansas and

00:07:21San Francisco.

00:07:22I also visited with a new style

00:07:24of facility called a local

00:07:26distribution center or LDC.

00:07:28At each of my stops the postal

00:07:30employees I met were all very

00:07:32proud and hard working people.

00:07:34Several with decades of

00:07:35experience at the postal service

00:07:37under their belt.

00:07:38Most were familiar with the

00:07:39postal service's high profile

00:07:41delivering for America plan and

00:07:43happy to share the benefits of

00:07:45this plan with me.

00:07:46I sense their hope that the

00:07:4810-year DFA plan would deliver

00:07:50for America.

00:07:51I'm pleased to announce that

00:07:53the DFA plan is now ready for

00:07:55the postal service coupled with

00:07:57service excellence.

00:07:58The facts are that since 2007

00:08:00the postal service has suffered

00:08:02a history of financial net

00:08:04losses while losing 48% of its

00:08:06mail volume.

00:08:07Incredibly, despite the postal

00:08:09service reform act's removal of

00:08:11the service's $57 billion

00:08:13liability for past due retiree

00:08:15health benefits, the service is

00:08:17still left with the net deficit

00:08:19of $1.5 billion.

00:08:21This is a significant loss for

00:08:23the postal service and the

00:08:25community due to ongoing

00:08:27financial issues.

00:08:28Together with my fellow

00:08:30commissioners I work to foster a

00:08:32vital and efficient universal

00:08:34mail system.

00:08:35During my interview with

00:08:36committee staff in advance of

00:08:38today's hearing I was asked how

00:08:40the commission might help the

00:08:42postal service become

00:08:43financially stable.

00:08:44I responded that the commission

00:08:45has the ability to provide the

00:08:47postal service with additional

00:08:49information.

00:08:50There are legitimate questions

00:08:52as to the effects of the much

00:08:54accelerated pace at which the

00:08:56postal service is increasing

00:08:57rates given how much mail volume

00:08:59has and is being lost.

00:09:01A key aspect of the postal

00:09:03service's financial viability is

00:09:05cost containment and management.

00:09:07While the commission has no

00:09:08direct role in postal service

00:09:10operations, it can provide

00:09:12transparency and analysis to

00:09:14ensure the postal service is

00:09:16doing its due diligence and

00:09:17performance.

00:09:18The postal service has a number

00:09:20of pockets aimed at providing

00:09:22transparency into the DFA plan,

00:09:24inefficiencies in the processing

00:09:26of flat shaped mail and service

00:09:28performance measurement.

00:09:29Ultimately though the question

00:09:30of whether financial

00:09:31sustainability can be achieved

00:09:33while maintaining high levels of

00:09:35service will depend on

00:09:36sufficient demand for postal

00:09:38products.

00:09:39This is something that posts

00:09:41around the world are facing

00:09:42right now.

00:09:43It's my hope that the

00:09:44commission's current review of

00:09:46the DFA plan will allow for a

00:09:48better understanding of the

00:09:49issue.

00:09:50While my statement is focused on

00:09:52postal finances, the commission

00:09:53also actively monitors, reports

00:09:55on and makes recommendations

00:09:57regarding postal service

00:09:58performance.

00:09:59In certain parts of the country

00:10:00DFA related adjustments have

00:10:02caused historic service

00:10:04performance lows.

00:10:05I expect to hear on this issue

00:10:07from members of the committee

00:10:08this morning and welcome any

00:10:09questions you may have for me.

00:10:11Again, I thank President Biden

00:10:13for nominating me and I would be

00:10:15honored to serve as one member

00:10:17of a team of commissioners

00:10:19dedicated to ensuring the

00:10:20transparency and accountability

00:10:22of the U.S. Postal Service.

00:10:24Thank you.

00:10:25Mr. Fisher, thank you for

00:10:26joining us.

00:10:27Thank you for your service for

00:10:29quite a few years now and both

00:10:31here as a member of our senate

00:10:34family and more recently in

00:10:37serving on the postal

00:10:39regulatory commission.

00:10:41Next is Ashley polling and

00:10:44she's a former member of the

00:10:46commission and we yield to you.

00:10:48I think you began your tenure as

00:10:51a commissioner in August 2019

00:10:55after being confirmed by a

00:10:57senate vote.

00:10:58Previously you served in several

00:11:00senior roles in the U.S. senate

00:11:02including director of

00:11:04governmental affairs on this

00:11:06committee.

00:11:07Ms. Polling received her J.D.

00:11:09from Elon university school of

00:11:12law in North Carolina and her

00:11:14bachelor's degree, B.A. in

00:11:16English from the college of

00:11:17William & Mary where our

00:11:19youngest son received his

00:11:20bachelor's degree.

00:11:21We have great memories visiting

00:11:23William & Mary there.

00:11:25My staff back in Delaware has

00:11:27been admitted to law school

00:11:29there.

00:11:30The bond continues to tighten.

00:11:32Wonderful place to get an

00:11:35education.

00:11:36Welcome, Ms. Polling.

00:11:37You may proceed with your

00:11:39opening remarks.

00:11:40Thank you for joining us and

00:11:41thank you for your years of

00:11:43service.

00:11:44You're recognized.

00:11:45Thank you, senator Carper.

00:11:46I'm also going to say thank you

00:11:48to chairman Peters and ranking

00:11:50member Paul who will probably be

00:11:52joining us later as well as the

00:11:54other honorable members of the

00:11:55committee.

00:11:56Thank you for inviting me here

00:11:57today to discuss my nomination

00:11:59for a second term as a

00:12:00commissioner on the United

00:12:01States postal regulatory

00:12:02commission.

00:12:03I would like to thank president

00:12:05Biden and his administration for

00:12:07placing their confidence in me

00:12:08and I am honored to be here.

00:12:10I am honored to recognize my

00:12:12incredible support system of

00:12:14family, friends, mentors and team

00:12:16members who are either here today

00:12:18in person or who are watching

00:12:20from all over the country.

00:12:22My parents, Lindy and Barkley,

00:12:24led incredible careers of their

00:12:26own as public servants and they

00:12:27have taught me everything I know

00:12:29about doing all that I can to

00:12:31make a difference in the world

00:12:32through their amazing guidance.

00:12:34I am also particularly grateful

00:12:36for the powerful female

00:12:37friendships in my life and thank

00:12:39them for their unshakable

00:12:41support.

00:12:42All of you have made a powerful

00:12:44difference in helping to shape

00:12:45the person I am today.

00:12:47Finally, I would like to thank

00:12:49the hard working men and women

00:12:50of the United States postal

00:12:51service for their remarkable work

00:12:53in maintaining this essential

00:12:55public service.

00:12:56The postal service is a critical

00:12:58piece of national infrastructure

00:13:00and an important lifeline to

00:13:01individual customers and small

00:13:03businesses in all areas of our

00:13:05country that use it to conduct

00:13:07financial transactions, vote in

00:13:09the national elections, receive

00:13:11essential medical items and build

00:13:13up their home businesses.

00:13:15This organization visits every

00:13:17American address six days per

00:13:19week and has existed since the

00:13:20time of the founding fathers.

00:13:22And yet in the last several

00:13:24years, the confidence of the

00:13:25American people and their public

00:13:27postal service has begun to slip.

00:13:29In 2021, the postal service

00:13:32lengthened service standards for

00:13:33a portion of mail and packages.

00:13:35Despite having more time to

00:13:37deliver the mail, service

00:13:38performance began declining in

00:13:402023 and has continued its

00:13:42decline this year.

00:13:43During my first term as a

00:13:45commissioner, I worked diligently

00:13:47with my colleagues on a variety

00:13:48of initiatives intended to help

00:13:50the mailing community, members of

00:13:52the public and Congress better

00:13:54understand why service

00:13:55performance often did not meet

00:13:57their expectations.

00:13:59I believe transparency and

00:14:01accountability in this area is

00:14:03now more essential than ever.

00:14:05It is important to explain why

00:14:07service is so significant to me

00:14:09personally.

00:14:10Before coming to the commission,

00:14:12I worked on postal policy for

00:14:14United States senators

00:14:15representing rural America.

00:14:17Much of what I learned about the

00:14:19importance of the postal service

00:14:20in rural communities came from my

00:14:22time on the ground in the states

00:14:24of Montana, North Dakota and

00:14:26Michigan, talking to

00:14:27constituents about how much they

00:14:29rely on postal services,

00:14:31including access to their local

00:14:33post office.

00:14:34For that reason, I have also

00:14:35been committed to helping resolve

00:14:37issues with suspended post

00:14:39offices.

00:14:40While some post offices are

00:14:41suspended due to extreme weather

00:14:43events or safety issues and

00:14:45reopened fairly quickly, others

00:14:47remain in the purgatory of

00:14:48suspended status for years or

00:14:50even decades.

00:14:51While the commission does not

00:14:52have any direct authority over

00:14:54post office suspensions, my

00:14:55colleagues and I have provided

00:14:57substantial transparency

00:14:58regarding this issue through our

00:15:00annual compliance determination.

00:15:02If confirmed for a second term,

00:15:04I will commit to continuing to

00:15:06hold the postal service

00:15:07accountable for resolving post

00:15:09office suspensions in a timely

00:15:11manner and in accordance with

00:15:12the law.

00:15:13Despite the ongoing decline in

00:15:15mail volume, the postal service

00:15:17delivers nearly half of the

00:15:18world's mail.

00:15:19Total mail and package volume

00:15:21remains in the billions of pieces

00:15:23every year, and the postal

00:15:25stakeholder community continues

00:15:26to be strong, accounting for over

00:15:28a trillion dollars of commerce.

00:15:30I would be remiss if I did not

00:15:32mention the important role that

00:15:34postal service plays in giving a

00:15:36voice to Americans' concerns

00:15:38about the future of this

00:15:39essential public service.

00:15:41Frequent engagement with the

00:15:42whole postal community remains

00:15:44crucial.

00:15:45I would also like to express my

00:15:47belief in the importance of

00:15:49collaboration and bipartisanship

00:15:51in creating and enforcing

00:15:53effective postal regulation.

00:15:55As I'm sure all of the committee

00:15:57members here know, there is no

00:15:59Republican or Democratic way to

00:16:01deliver the mail.

00:16:02I pledge to continue working with

00:16:04Congress in bipartisan fashion to

00:16:06provide critical oversight of the

00:16:08postal service for the benefit of

00:16:10all Americans.

00:16:11We stand at a meaningful moment

00:16:13in postal history.

00:16:14As the postal service pursues

00:16:16extensive nationwide reforms to

00:16:17its network and operations, it is

00:16:19critical that the commission hold

00:16:21the postal service accountable for

00:16:23meeting its statutory obligations

00:16:25throughout these changes,

00:16:26including maintaining high quality

00:16:28service.

00:16:29There is no more important time

00:16:31than now for a strong and engaged

00:16:33postal service.

00:16:34I look forward to working with

00:16:36Congress in the future.

00:16:37While my colleagues and I have

00:16:39accomplished a lot during the

00:16:40last five years, there are still

00:16:42substantial changes left to meet

00:16:44and much work to be done to

00:16:46preserve the vital institution

00:16:47that is the United States Postal

00:16:49Service.

00:16:50I thank you for your time and for

00:16:52considering my nomination.

00:16:53I look forward to answering any

00:16:55questions you may have.

00:16:56Thanks, Ms. Pullen.

00:16:57We've been joined by the real

00:16:59chairman of this committee,

00:17:01Senator Peters.

00:17:02Thank you for your presence today

00:17:04and for your service on the

00:17:06commission.

00:17:07People say to me, why am I

00:17:09interested in the postal service?

00:17:11The last Vietnam veteran serving

00:17:13in the U.S. Senate.

00:17:14I remember three tours over there

00:17:16and the best day of the week was

00:17:18the day the mail came.

00:17:20For my colleagues and me then, it

00:17:22was important.

00:17:23For those men and women who are

00:17:25serving in uniform today around

00:17:27the world, they still get mail.

00:17:29It's a great lifeline.

00:17:32I'm going to go back to vote on

00:17:35another committee.

00:17:36You're stuck with me for a

00:17:38little bit longer.

00:17:40I think we're going to turn next

00:17:43to Carmen Aguina.

00:17:47Aguina and Gonzales.

00:17:50Gonzales is currently counsel at

00:17:53Kaplan, Hecker, and Hickman.

00:17:56She's a former U.S. Army

00:17:59veteran.

00:18:00She's a former U.S. Army veteran

00:18:02at Kaplan, Hecker, and Fink, LLP,

00:18:05where she handles complex civil

00:18:07litigation and appellate matters

00:18:09in addition to maintaining

00:18:11pro bono practice representing

00:18:13individuals in nonprofit

00:18:15organizations.

00:18:16She also serves as director of

00:18:18the Howard University School of

00:18:20Law Civil Rights Clinic.

00:18:23Previously, Ms. Aguina and

00:18:25Gonzales served as a senior staff

00:18:27member for the Civil Rights

00:18:29Project.

00:18:30Earlier in her legal career, I'm

00:18:32told she worked for the law firm

00:18:34Jones Day and for the ACLU of

00:18:37Southern California.

00:18:39Ms. Gonzales also earned her BA

00:18:43magna cum laude from Harvard

00:18:46University and her JD magna cum

00:18:49laude from New York University

00:18:51School of Law.

00:18:52That's pretty impressive.

00:18:53When I was in grad school, I

00:18:55could barely spell those words

00:18:57correctly, but very impressive

00:18:59credentials.

00:19:00After law school, she clerked

00:19:02for Judge Kiyo A. Matsumoto on

00:19:09U.S. District Court for the

00:19:11Eastern District of New York and

00:19:13for Judge Stephen Reinhardt on

00:19:15the United States Court of

00:19:17Appeals for the Ninth Circuit,

00:19:19and Justice Sonia Sotomayor,

00:19:21never heard of her, on the

00:19:23Supreme Court of the United

00:19:25States.

00:19:26I welcome you, Ms. Aguina

00:19:28Gonzales.

00:19:29You may proceed with your

00:19:30opening remarks.

00:19:32Thank you, Senator Carper.

00:19:34Good morning.

00:19:35I am honored and humbled to

00:19:37appear before you today as you

00:19:39consider my nomination to be an

00:19:41associate judge of the District

00:19:42of Columbia Court of Appeals.

00:19:44I thank you for holding this

00:19:45hearing.

00:19:46I also wish to thank the

00:19:48District of Columbia Judicial

00:19:49Nomination Commission and its

00:19:51chair, the Honorable Marie Jones

00:19:53for recommending me to the White

00:19:55House, and I thank President

00:19:57Joseph Biden for nominating me.

00:19:59I also wish to take a moment to

00:20:01thank the chief judge and the

00:20:02associate judges of the District

00:20:04of Columbia Court of Appeals who

00:20:06are actually here today for

00:20:07being so generous with their

00:20:08time.

00:20:09Would they raise their hands?

00:20:11All right.

00:20:12Back in the chief seats.

00:20:14Go ahead.

00:20:15For being so generous with their

00:20:17time throughout this process.

00:20:19I am the person and the lawyer I

00:20:21am today because of the people

00:20:22in my life who have supported me

00:20:24and I want to take a moment to

00:20:26acknowledge them.

00:20:27First, I want to thank my

00:20:29husband, Jason Alcorn, who has

00:20:31been my best friend and partner

00:20:33for over 20 years.

00:20:34Ask Jason to raise his hand.

00:20:36Go ahead.

00:20:37All right.

00:20:38Thank you.

00:20:39For your love and constant

00:20:40encouragement, I can never thank

00:20:41you enough.

00:20:42To my children, mis nenes, Lucas

00:20:44and Gabriela who are here as

00:20:45well.

00:20:46Would you ask them to raise their

00:20:48hands?

00:20:49How old are they?

00:20:50Nine and four.

00:20:51Oh, good.

00:20:52Welcome.

00:20:53You fill my days with joy and

00:20:55laughter.

00:20:56It is the greatest privilege of

00:20:57my life to be your mom and I am

00:20:59so proud to have you here with me

00:21:01today.

00:21:02Next, I wish to thank my parents,

00:21:04Dr. Luis Iguina and Dr. Gloria

00:21:06Gonzalez who traveled from Puerto

00:21:08Rico to be here.

00:21:09Would you ask them to raise their

00:21:11hands?

00:21:12Bienvenido.

00:21:15For over 40 years, my father

00:21:17worked as a doctor at the San

00:21:19Juan VA medical center.

00:21:21The VA center?

00:21:22The VA center.

00:21:23Good for you.

00:21:24Thank you for your service.

00:21:25Caring for U.S. veterans in

00:21:27Puerto Rico.

00:21:28And my mother's own medical

00:21:29career was dedicated to caring

00:21:31for children.

00:21:32Thank you both for instilling in

00:21:34me the values of hard work and

00:21:36dedication to family.

00:21:38To my siblings, Antonio and

00:21:40Elena, one of whom is also here.

00:21:42Which one?

00:21:43Antonio.

00:21:44Antonio.

00:21:45Big brother, little brother?

00:21:46Big brother.

00:21:47All right.

00:21:48Thank you both for being the

00:21:49best cheerleaders a little sister

00:21:51could ever have.

00:21:53To my husband's parents, the

00:21:55reverend Dr. Paul and Shodi

00:21:57Alcorn, you exemplify a life

00:21:59centered around faith and

00:22:00service.

00:22:01And to my extended family in

00:22:03Puerto Rico, Georgia,

00:22:04Pennsylvania, and Maine, and my

00:22:06friends and colleagues all over

00:22:08the country, thank you for your

00:22:10unconditional love and support.

00:22:12As I sit here today, my mind is

00:22:14on my grandmother who raised

00:22:16three children on her own and

00:22:18worked her way through law

00:22:20school by attending classes at

00:22:22night.

00:22:23As a young girl, I sat by her

00:22:25side in her small office and

00:22:27watched as she helped her

00:22:29neighbors.

00:22:30I learned from my grandmother

00:22:31that to practice law is a

00:22:33privilege and to serve our

00:22:34community is the highest

00:22:35calling.

00:22:36Those values have led me

00:22:37throughout my career and have

00:22:39been shared by so many of the

00:22:41wonderful lawyers I have had the

00:22:43privilege to work for and with.

00:22:45I had the great privilege to

00:22:47serve as a law clerk for three

00:22:49distinguished lawyers, judge

00:22:51Kiyo Matsumoto, the late judge

00:22:53Steven Reinhart, and justice

00:22:55Sonia Sotomayor.

00:22:56Each in their own ways taught me

00:22:58what it means to be dedicated to

00:23:00the fair and impartial

00:23:01administration of the law and

00:23:03committed to that vital promise

00:23:05engraved over the entrance of

00:23:06the Supreme Court, equal justice

00:23:08under law.

00:23:09If I am fortunate enough to be

00:23:11confirmed, I very much look

00:23:12forward to upholding those

00:23:13values as an associate judge on

00:23:15the District of Columbia Court

00:23:16of Appeals.

00:23:17My own career in the law has

00:23:19continued.

00:23:20In addition to my clerkships, I

00:23:22have worked in small and large

00:23:24nonprofit organizations and law

00:23:26firms and taught at a large

00:23:28Midwest public university and a

00:23:30private HBCU here in D.C.

00:23:33These experiences have afforded

00:23:35me extraordinary opportunities

00:23:36to work on matters presenting

00:23:38questions about corporate law,

00:23:40statutory construction,

00:23:42administrative law, criminal law

00:23:44and more.

00:23:45Each opportunity has fueled my

00:23:47love for the law and my respect

00:23:49for the community.

00:23:50I was fortunate enough to serve

00:23:52as an associate judge on the

00:23:54District of Columbia Court of

00:23:56Appeals to serve the community

00:23:58of Washington, D.C.

00:23:59I carry with me the lessons of

00:24:01my grandmother helping her

00:24:03neighbors, my parents caring for

00:24:05those who most needed care and

00:24:07the judges that I have worked

00:24:09for.

00:24:10I became a lawyer because I

00:24:11wanted to be of service and

00:24:13courts are integral to that work

00:24:15not only because of their role

00:24:17in maintaining the rule of law

00:24:19but also in ensuring that every

00:24:21person who walks through the

00:24:23courthouse doors is treated

00:24:25fairly and with dignity.

00:24:26It would be an honor to serve

00:24:28the District of Columbia in that

00:24:30vital role.

00:24:31Thank you again for the

00:24:32opportunity to appear before you

00:24:34today and I look forward to your

00:24:36questions.

00:24:37Thank you.

00:24:38And thanks for the folks you

00:24:40have mentioned, grandmother,

00:24:42other members of your family,

00:24:44other folks that you have worked

00:24:46for, worked with who have helped

00:24:48prepare you for this moment.

00:24:50I used to be governor of

00:24:52Delaware and as governor I was

00:24:54privileged to nominate people to

00:24:56serve on a variety of courts

00:24:58including court of chancery which

00:25:00has an international reputation

00:25:02and Supreme Court and others.

00:25:04I know how important the role of

00:25:06judiciary is in our state and

00:25:08certainly here in the district.

00:25:10For too long the seats have not

00:25:12been filled and not been filled

00:25:14properly and in some cases left

00:25:16vacant for not just months but

00:25:18years.

00:25:19It's been painful and the Senate

00:25:21has a responsibility to meet all

00:25:23of us Democrats and Republicans

00:25:25and to fill these seats with

00:25:27confirmed folks.

00:25:28We have been joined here by

00:25:30Senator from California, Senator

00:25:32Butler who has just returned from

00:25:34a bipartisan bicameral

00:25:36congressional delegation trip to

00:25:38Mexico where she met with the

00:25:40president of Mexico and the

00:25:42newly elected president-elect in

00:25:44Mexico, a woman, that would be a

00:25:46first, and who is actually

00:25:48representing her.

00:25:49And Senator Butler, how was that

00:25:51kowtow?

00:25:52It was an incredibly enlightening

00:25:55experience.

00:25:56I had a wonderful time learning

00:25:58from the leaders of Mexico and

00:26:01spending time with our U.S.

00:26:03ambassador, former Senator Ken

00:26:05Salazar.

00:26:06I think the partnership that we

00:26:08can build between the leaders of

00:26:10both countries targeting the

00:26:12root causes of migration and

00:26:14working together on issues of

00:26:16border security are all great

00:26:18opportunities in front of us.

00:26:20Thank you for leading the

00:26:22kowtow.

00:26:23We'll do it again.

00:26:24Maybe the next time we'll make

00:26:26it to Colombia.

00:26:27We're flying military air and

00:26:29the army is providing military

00:26:31air support of our congressional

00:26:33delegation, 11 of us and staff,

00:26:35and we made it as far as the

00:26:37first part of our journey which

00:26:39was to meet with the leadership

00:26:41of Mexico, one of our strongest

00:26:43partners and most valuable

00:26:45relationship.

00:26:46We had to cut short a day and

00:26:48night double header and we made

00:26:50it to the first part of the

00:26:52double header but we'll have to

00:26:54go back to Colombia some other

00:26:56time but thanks for being a big

00:26:58part of that and building an

00:27:00even stronger relationship.

00:27:02Senator Peters is going to be

00:27:04joining us shortly but before he

00:27:06does I think we may get to hear

00:27:08from our final nominee and

00:27:10that's Joseph Palmore and he's

00:27:12nominated to be associate judge

00:27:14on the District of Columbia

00:27:16Court of Appeals.

00:27:17Mr. Palmore is currently a

00:27:19partner at the law firm of

00:27:21Morrison Forster LLP where he

00:27:23co-chairs the firm's appellate

00:27:25and Supreme Court practice.

00:27:27Previously Mr. Palmore served as

00:27:29an assistant to the solicitor

00:27:31general of the United States

00:27:33Department of Justice and held

00:27:35senior legal positions at the

00:27:37Federal Communications

00:27:38Commission.

00:27:39He received his A.B.

00:27:41Magna Cum Laude from the

00:27:43University of Virginia.

00:27:45After law school Mr. Palmore

00:27:47served as a law clerk for Judge

00:27:49John Gleeson on the U.S.

00:27:51District Court for the Eastern

00:27:53District of New York, Judge

00:27:55Dennis Jacobs on the U.S.

00:27:57Court of Appeals for the

00:27:59Second District Court of

00:28:01Appeals.

00:28:02He served as a lawyer for the

00:28:04District of Columbia for the

00:28:06District of Columbia for the

00:28:08District of Columbia for the

00:28:10District of Columbia for the

00:28:12Second District Court of

00:28:14Appeals and Justice Ruth Bader

00:28:17Ginsburg for the U.S.

00:28:19Supreme Court.

00:28:20Welcome Mr. Palmore.

00:28:22Good to see you and your family

00:28:25and other guests.

00:28:28You may proceed with your

00:28:30opening remarks.

00:28:31Thank you Senator Carper.

00:28:32I'm honored to appear before you

00:28:34today as you consider my

00:28:36nomination to be an associate

00:28:38judge on the District of

00:28:40Columbia Court of Appeals.

00:28:42and its chair, the Honorable Marie Johns,

00:28:44for recommending me to the White House.

00:28:46I want to thank the chief judge of the court

00:28:48and the judges of the court for being so welcoming

00:28:50through this process and for coming today.

00:28:52And I'm also grateful to President Biden for nominating me.

00:28:56I would like to take a moment to acknowledge

00:28:57some important people in my life,

00:28:59several of whom are here today.

00:29:01I could not be more fortunate

00:29:03to be married to Dr. Tara Palmore.

00:29:05I wouldn't be sitting here before you today

00:29:07without Tara's steadfast support and encouragement.

00:29:10Would you ask her to raise her hand?

00:29:13Welcome, how are you?

00:29:14Thanks for your willingness to share this fellow

00:29:16with all of us, the people of the District of Columbia.

00:29:19We have three sons, two of whom are here today.

00:29:22No, would they raise their hand?

00:29:23Yes, Simon and Teddy are here.

00:29:25Simon and Teddy, they're big boys.

00:29:26Charlie is, yes.

00:29:29Charlie is away at summer camp, so couldn't make it.

00:29:33All three of them make me proud every day.

00:29:35We have three sons as well.

00:29:37People ask me why I'm proud of stuff in my life,

00:29:39and I always say raising three boys

00:29:41with a big assist from their mom.

00:29:46My mother, Sandra Palmore, is also here today.

00:29:48Where?

00:29:50Welcome, hi mom.

00:29:52Her status as my biggest fan gave me the confidence

00:29:55to become the first lawyer in our family.

00:29:58She also taught me the importance of education.

00:30:00She was not able to complete her college education

00:30:03right out of high school

00:30:04because her family couldn't afford it,

00:30:06but she went back to school at night when I was a boy.

00:30:10Attending my own mother's college graduation

00:30:12at the University of Texas at San Antonio

00:30:14is one of my proudest childhood memories.

00:30:18My father, Russell Palmore, passed away

00:30:20on December 28th, 2023,

00:30:24just as the Judicial Nomination Commission process

00:30:26was beginning.

00:30:28Despite the loss, I decided to proceed

00:30:30because I knew that's what my dad would have wanted.

00:30:33He was immensely proud of my professional accomplishments

00:30:36and told me over the years

00:30:38he thought I should consider becoming a judge.

00:30:42I've been an appellate litigator for more than 20 years.

00:30:44I served as Deputy General Counsel

00:30:46of the Federal Communications Commission

00:30:48where I oversaw all litigation involving the agency.

00:30:52I then served as an assistant to the Solicitor General

00:30:55where I had the honor of representing the United States

00:30:58before the Supreme Court.

00:30:59My docket was diverse and split

00:31:01between civil and criminal cases.

00:31:04For the last nearly 10 years,

00:31:05I've served as co-chair of the Appellate

00:31:08and Supreme Court Practice at Morrison Forster.

00:31:11I've represented clients in federal and state appeals

00:31:13all over the country.

00:31:15I've also engaged in substantial pro bono work

00:31:17and now chair the firm's pro bono committee.

00:31:21I'd like to finish my remarks by noting

00:31:23where my legal career started,

00:31:25by clerking for Judge Dennis Jacobs

00:31:27on the Second Circuit Court of Appeals,

00:31:29for John Gleeson on the Eastern District of New York,

00:31:32and for the Honorable Ruth Bader Ginsburg

00:31:34on the United States Supreme Court.

00:31:37They modeled for me what it is to be an excellent judge.

00:31:40Hard work, fidelity to precedent,

00:31:43mastery of the factual record,

00:31:45respect for all parties, timely decision making,

00:31:48and clearly written opinions.

00:31:52I've lived in the District of Columbia

00:31:53for more than 20 years and raised my family here.

00:31:56I love this city and its people.

00:31:59With your advice and consent,

00:32:00it would be an honor for me to return to public service

00:32:03in a new role as an associate judge

00:32:05on the District of Columbia Court of Appeals.

00:32:08Thank you for the opportunity to appear here today

00:32:10and I welcome your questions.

00:32:12Yeah, you bet.

00:32:13Thanks for that testimony.

00:32:14We've been rejoined by our chairman,

00:32:16the real chairman of the committee.

00:32:18And before I turn it over to Senator Marshall, welcome.

00:32:22Glad that you could join us today.

00:32:24Again, just to say to you and to Ms. Gonzalez,

00:32:30how important it I think it is

00:32:32to fill these vacancies on the bench.

00:32:35I mentioned earlier, Mr. Chairman,

00:32:37that in our state and I know in the state of Michigan,

00:32:40governors are very much involved in nominating people.

00:32:43Those nominations never come before the Congress.

00:32:46So folks get nominated, goes through the approval process

00:32:49in Michigan, Delaware, wherever,

00:32:51and folks serve on the bench.

00:32:54And to have vacancies that may be not just months,

00:32:57but in some cases years,

00:32:59that have been filled,

00:33:00justice delayed is justice denied.

00:33:03And we can do a better job.

00:33:04We need to do a better job.

00:33:05And I want to applaud this man right here and his staff

00:33:08for making sure that we do something about it,

00:33:10not just talk about it,

00:33:11but actually do something about it.

00:33:12And thank you.

00:33:13And with that, happy to turn the gavel back over.

00:33:15Thank you for letting me return to my previous glory

00:33:18as the glory days as chairman,

00:33:20the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

00:33:22Good luck, everybody.

00:33:23I leave you in very, very good hands.

00:33:24Thank you.

00:33:25Well, thank you.

00:33:26Thank you, Senator Carper.

00:33:27Thank you for doing an amazing job.

00:33:29You've done this before, clearly,

00:33:31not your first rodeo.

00:33:32So thank you for helping out.

00:33:35And as you can tell, it's a crazy day.

00:33:37We're running around.

00:33:38All of our members are trying to multitask.

00:33:41And sometimes that goes better than other times.

00:33:44So appreciate your indulgence.

00:33:47There are three questions the committee asks

00:33:50of every nominee.

00:33:50And I'm going to ask each of you to respond briefly

00:33:54with yes or no.

00:33:55Well, we're going to start with Ms. Fisher.

00:33:57We'll work down the dais there.

00:33:59First, is there anything you are aware of

00:34:02in your background that might present a conflict

00:34:04of interest with the duties of the office

00:34:06to which you have been nominated?

00:34:08No.

00:34:09No.

00:34:11No, Senator.

00:34:12No, Senator.

00:34:13And second, do you know of anything personal

00:34:15or otherwise that would in any way prevent you

00:34:17from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities

00:34:21of the office to which you have been nominated?

00:34:24No.

00:34:25No, Senator.

00:34:27No, Senator.

00:34:28And lastly, do you agree without reservation

00:34:32to comply with any request or summons to appear

00:34:34and testify before any duly constituted committee

00:34:37of Congress if you are confirmed?

00:34:40Yes.

00:34:41Yes.

00:34:42Yes, Senator.

00:34:43Yes, Senator.

00:34:44Very good.

00:34:49So my first question, and Commissioner Poling,

00:34:51and by the way, welcome back to the committee

00:34:55from your extensive experience here.

00:34:57This is not an unfamiliar place for you to be.

00:35:00So my first question's for you

00:35:02as well as Commissioner Fischer.

00:35:04The Postal Regulatory Commission plays a critical role

00:35:09in conducting oversight of the Postal Service,

00:35:11including prices, on-time delivery service,

00:35:15and whether the Postal Service is providing prompt,

00:35:18reliable, and efficient services to every community

00:35:22across our country and to every address

00:35:25across our country as well.

00:35:27So my question for both of you is what steps

00:35:30have you taken to ensure the Postal Service

00:35:32maintains a high level of service

00:35:34and accountability for customers?

00:35:36And if confirmed for a second term,

00:35:39how would you continue to ensure the Commission

00:35:41acts as a stronger regulator in conducting oversight

00:35:46for the Postal Service?

00:35:47For this one, I'll start with you, Ms. Fischer,

00:35:49and Ms. Poling after that.

00:35:51Ms. Fischer.

00:35:52Thank you, Chairman Peters.

00:35:54The Commission, while it can't force the Postal Service

00:35:59to make its service better,

00:36:02we certainly can provide an extensive amount of oversight

00:36:06and transparency in this area.

00:36:08We do, on an annual basis,

00:36:10collect their service performance information

00:36:13from across the country and make that public

00:36:15and make recommendations as to how we believe

00:36:18they could improve upon it

00:36:19via our annual compliance determination.

00:36:22We also collect and report on quarterly data

00:36:25and, most recently, weekly data,

00:36:28according to the Postal Service's own website.

00:36:31But what we are doing now that I believe is most important

00:36:35is we've opened a docket to look at

00:36:38how they measure their service performance.

00:36:41This is an area where we can do something.

00:36:44We have been examining,

00:36:47or we're in the beginning of examining

00:36:49the extent to which their numbers are accurate,

00:36:51reliable, and representative of the system as a whole.

00:36:55The DFA has made significant changes

00:36:58to the way the Postal Service transports the mail,

00:37:03moving it around the times of delivery,

00:37:06and we believe that the service measurement system

00:37:09may not be as accurate as it had been previously.

00:37:12So the docket is just in the early stages.

00:37:15If we get to a point where I believe we find

00:37:17that it is not representative of the system as a whole,

00:37:21we could ask for modifications

00:37:24to the way that they measure the service performance.

00:37:26And I am committed to staying on top of this.

00:37:30Service is of paramount importance to members of Congress,

00:37:34and it has not been where it needs to be.

00:37:36Very good, thank you.

00:37:37Ms. Pauling?

00:37:38Thank you, Chair.

00:37:39It's good to see you.

00:37:40It's good to be back with you all here in the Senate.

00:37:45Excuse me, to be back here in the Senate.

00:37:47Yeah, so I guess where I would start is, first of all,

00:37:50I know that there has been a lot of frustration

00:37:53from you all on the committee with the level of service

00:37:55that has been occurring since 2023,

00:37:58and I really do appreciate that and understand it,

00:38:01having worked for senators from rural America

00:38:03on my time at the committee,

00:38:04and also just understanding that you need to go back

00:38:07to your constituents and be able to tell them

00:38:09where their mail is.

00:38:11So I would say a few things that I think the commission

00:38:14has been doing really well,

00:38:15particularly on the service front.

00:38:17We do have limited authorities,

00:38:19but I think we're doing as much as we can

00:38:20with what we have.

00:38:22In April of 2023, we opened a Delivering for America

00:38:27PI docket, and in that docket,

00:38:29that's where we're able to examine the scope

00:38:31of what the Postal Service is doing through this plan.

00:38:34As mentioned earlier,

00:38:35this is one of the most extensive changes we've ever seen

00:38:38to the transportation of mail and packages

00:38:40around the country.

00:38:41So oversight and transparency is critical.

00:38:44So we've opened that docket.

00:38:46We've asked a series of questions through it.

00:38:48Something I think that's really innovative

00:38:51that the commission has done more recently

00:38:52is we actually issued our first show cause order

00:38:55for an advisory opinion.

00:38:57We've never done that before in the commission's history.

00:38:59And in that order, we were asking the Postal Service

00:39:02to either submit an advisory opinion to us,

00:39:05and just to clarify what that is,

00:39:07whenever there's a nationwide

00:39:08or substantially nationwide change in service,

00:39:10the Postal Service is supposed to submit one of those

00:39:13to us at the commission for our review.

00:39:16And when we filed the show cause order,

00:39:18we gave the Postal Service a period of time

00:39:22to get back to us and either file one

00:39:24or to tell us why they were not filing one.

00:39:26Unfortunately, they did not file one.

00:39:28I am hopeful they still will.

00:39:30I know that is something that is still being talked about,

00:39:32but I actually do believe

00:39:34that that advisory opinion process would be the best way

00:39:37for us to continue our service oversight

00:39:39over the Postal Service.

00:39:42And I think it will really provide,

00:39:43I think an ability to have an independent neutral analysis

00:39:47of what is going on with this plan.

00:39:49We really need to understand what's happening with it,

00:39:51and I really believe that we can do a thorough job

00:39:54with our team of experts at the commission.

00:39:56You also asked, Chairman,

00:39:58about what would we do in the future as a regulator?

00:40:01I think we've got a lot on our plates.

00:40:03We're trying to do more and more

00:40:05with data and transparency.

00:40:06I'm really excited about some of the dashboards

00:40:09we have at the commission that we've been working on

00:40:11since coming to the commission

00:40:12and appreciating in my former role

00:40:14as a congressional staffer

00:40:15how important accessible reports are.

00:40:18I've worked really especially on bringing more mapping

00:40:23and things like that to our reports

00:40:25and making sure infographics are more understandable,

00:40:28and just really making sure that people

00:40:30can really take away something in a few minutes

00:40:33from something they're seeing on our website.

00:40:35In addition, you talked about rate making.

00:40:38That's a huge part of what we do.

00:40:42Everyone has heard in the postal community

00:40:43and has been talking about the number of rate increases

00:40:46and how they've been going up,

00:40:48and we've heard a lot from the mailing stakeholder community.

00:40:52I can tell you, we talk to them often,

00:40:55and that is actually one of the biggest reasons

00:40:58why I have very much supported us opening

00:41:02our review of the market-dominant rate making system

00:41:05two years early.

00:41:06That was a unanimous decision by the commission,

00:41:08and I think we're all looking forward to examining that.

00:41:12We actually just received our first public comments

00:41:14in that docket.

00:41:15In addition, the Postal Service continues

00:41:20to have volume losses and to have financial,

00:41:22significant financial problems,

00:41:24so I really think this will be a good opportunity

00:41:26for us at the commission.

00:41:27Thank you.

00:41:30Thank you.

00:41:30Senator Carpery, recognized for your questions.

00:41:32Thanks very, very much.

00:41:34I mentioned I'm the last Vietnam veteran

00:41:36serving in the U.S. Senate,

00:41:37and kind of relates to my great affection

00:41:40and interest in the postal issues.

00:41:43We used to fly 12-hour missions.

00:41:44We'd fly them off the coast of Vietnam and Cambodia,

00:41:46and at the end of the missions, we'd come back, debrief,

00:41:50and my crew, 13-man crew, we'd oftentimes have dinner

00:41:53to get a chow together at an outdoor cafe on the base

00:41:56where we were located,

00:41:57and they had Armed Forces radio piped in on the speakers

00:42:01so we could actually hear music from America,

00:42:04and one of the groups that was pretty big at the time

00:42:07was a British group, I think, called Led Zeppelin.

00:42:10I think they had a very successful album

00:42:12called The Song Remains the Same.

00:42:14I'm channeling that song as I sit here

00:42:16with the Postal Service.

00:42:18The Song Remains the Same.

00:42:19Senator Peters and I have worked for years,

00:42:22along with members of our staff, along with you,

00:42:24trying to make sure that we have a postal service

00:42:26that's one that we can be proud of

00:42:27that provides not just mail services for folks

00:42:30that are deployed around the world in our Armed Forces,

00:42:32but to meet the services for our constituents

00:42:34and across the country,

00:42:36and one of the things that we do,

00:42:38every one of us in the Senate, in the House as well,

00:42:40we all have constituent services operations, as you know,

00:42:43and we take a lot of pride

00:42:45in our constituent services operation.

00:42:47We actually send out a survey at the beginning

00:42:49of every month to constituents

00:42:51who've contacted my offices in Delaware

00:42:53and ask them about the quality of the service

00:42:56they're getting from, it could be from the VA,

00:42:58it could be the Department of Transportation,

00:43:01it could be from the Postal Service,

00:43:03and the Postal Service usually leads the hit parade

00:43:07in unhappiness that we measure from our constituents

00:43:11in terms of folks that are reaching out to us

00:43:14by phone, by mail, by email,

00:43:17to say that the service is not what it should be,

00:43:20and we have worked on legislation to try to help,

00:43:24as you know, to try to stabilize the operation

00:43:28of the Postal Service and their finances,

00:43:31and we're still facing a situation

00:43:32where the quality of the service is evaluated

00:43:36by people who contact my office every month.

00:43:40The quality of the service is not getting better,

00:43:42in many cases, it's getting worse,

00:43:43and we find that we're losing money,

00:43:45more, maybe more than ever.

00:43:47That's not a good combination,

00:43:49and it's not all on the Postal Service,

00:43:52it's not all on the people who work there,

00:43:53it's not all on commission,

00:43:54it's not all on us on this committee,

00:43:56but we've gotta find a way to a better place

00:43:59for the people we serve, and frankly,

00:44:01for the people who work for the Postal Service.

00:44:03But with that having been said,

00:44:06could both of you, Ms. Fisher and Ms. Pauling,

00:44:08could you share your insights

00:44:10on strategies the commission could adopt

00:44:12to generally improve the financial stability

00:44:15of the Postal Service?

00:44:16How do you envision pushing for innovation

00:44:19and improvements in efficiency

00:44:21within the current regulatory framework

00:44:24to help the Postal Service better serve its customers?

00:44:28Please, Ms. Fisher, would you go first?

00:44:32I don't know that we could alone improve

00:44:36the financial viability of the Postal Service.

00:44:39You laid out what is the significant problem.

00:44:43Their volume continues to decline,

00:44:46both in the market-dominant and competitive area.

00:44:49Market-dominant volume has been decreasing steadily

00:44:52for several years in this past year,

00:44:55at 9% decrease, it never rebounded fully from COVID.

00:45:01Competitive had been growing,

00:45:03but this past year it decreased by 2%.

00:45:08Despite the relief of the $57 billion liability

00:45:13that the PSRA accomplished,

00:45:15which many, I think, thought would be a big piece

00:45:18of solving the Postal Service's financial problems,

00:45:21they still have a tremendous amount

00:45:23of unfunded liabilities.

00:45:25A huge loan from the Federal Financing Bank,

00:45:27workers' compensation,

00:45:29and continued CSRS and FERS liabilities.

00:45:35We can assist them to a small degree

00:45:39through rate authority,

00:45:41but much of the rest depends upon

00:45:45the public's desire for their product.

00:45:49And as I just laid out, that's waning.

00:45:52At base, I wonder if it's time

00:45:55to potentially revisit the entire business model

00:45:58of the Postal Service.

00:46:00That's something the Commission

00:46:02made several recommendations to the Congress

00:46:07several years ago.

00:46:09It's a tough nut to crack.

00:46:11You need to try and discern what the public

00:46:14truly wants and needs from their Postal Service.

00:46:16A lot of different countries are looking at this right now.

00:46:19Some are considering days of delivery,

00:46:22some are considering lowering service standards.

00:46:25I'm not saying that's the answer here.

00:46:28Lowered service standards certainly doesn't seem

00:46:31to be what the American public wants,

00:46:32but these are things that it may be time to revisit.

00:46:36Thanks very much.

00:46:36And Ms. Poling, take about a minute and respond,

00:46:39and then I'm gonna say one other thing

00:46:42and turn it back over to our Chairman.

00:46:44Go ahead, just one minute, please.

00:46:45Okay.

00:46:46Thank you, Senator Carper.

00:46:48And I'll ask you to respond in greater length

00:46:51responses for the record.

00:46:53Thanks, go ahead.

00:46:53Okay, that sounds good.

00:46:54Thank you so much.

00:46:55I'll just quickly say then, I think when it comes,

00:46:58you asked primarily about financial stability

00:47:00of the Postal Service, and I think the greatest way

00:47:04that the Commission can have an impact on that

00:47:06is probably through our rate-making authority.

00:47:09I mentioned earlier that we have opened our review

00:47:11of the rate-making system two years earlier,

00:47:13and I really do think the goal of the system

00:47:17is really to find ways, right,

00:47:20to find this balance between keeping the Postal Service

00:47:24self-sustaining and also finding incentives

00:47:27to reduce cost, and so I think that's something

00:47:29we'll be able to examine in greater length

00:47:32as we go into this new rate-making review.

00:47:35I also think it's important to say

00:47:36that in our recent rate order that we put out,

00:47:40we actually did put in there that we do believe

00:47:44the Board of Governors should exercise their discretion

00:47:48when they are raising these rates,

00:47:51and I do believe this system will give us a chance

00:47:54to really look at this in greater detail,

00:47:56but that is something that we have said,

00:47:58and again, I think one thing that is a real benefit

00:48:01of this enacted system from 2021,

00:48:03the one we're currently under,

00:48:04is that we do have the ability to revisit it

00:48:06every five years, if not earlier,

00:48:08so I think that's something we're doing right now,

00:48:11and the last thing I'll say is we do have

00:48:13a financial report at the Commission

00:48:14where we're really able to examine the revenue

00:48:16and costs of the Commission on an annual basis,

00:48:18and I'll be happy to give you even more

00:48:20in my questions for the record.

00:48:22Before I turn the gavel back over to our chairman,

00:48:25before he pulls it out of my hand,

00:48:28one of the things we've tried to do for years,

00:48:31we find, how are other, you know,

00:48:33the Postal Service, by the only entity in the country

00:48:35that goes to every, basically every door,

00:48:38every post box in the country,

00:48:41at least five, six days a week,

00:48:43and how do we take that and make that

00:48:46part of the business model that's actually,

00:48:48generates enough revenues to be sustaining?

00:48:50One of the things that we hear from time to time

00:48:52is vote by mail, and you know,

00:48:53some states, they have a fair amount of vote by mail,

00:48:56in other cases, not so much.

00:48:58The, I think, I've felt forever

00:49:00that there's actually revenues opportunities

00:49:02for the Postal Service through vote by mail,

00:49:04and frankly, the, hopefully, at the same time,

00:49:07we'll get more people to vote,

00:49:08and that would be a good combination,

00:49:10vote by mail, we can increase revenues

00:49:12of the Postal Service, and make sure more people

00:49:15are reading the Constitution responsible as citizens.

00:49:18With that, I turn it to the Chairman,

00:49:20and thank you so much for letting me

00:49:22sit in your seat for a while, thanks.

00:49:25Thank you, Senator Carper, as always.

00:49:27Senator Butler, you're recognized for your questions.

00:49:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman, let me take the first minute,

00:49:34because I do think there's a little bit of a pattern

00:49:36that you're gonna see in our questioning

00:49:38from the committee, I mean, it's just at the top

00:49:41of my remarks, just congratulate Ms. Gonzalez

00:49:44and Mr. Palmore, their families, their friends,

00:49:48and none of us get in this room by ourselves.

00:49:52And to just know that it is that you all

00:49:55are being supported, both physically and here in person,

00:49:58also virtually, online, and maybe your son

00:50:02is thinking about you at summer camp.

00:50:06If he's anything like my daughter, probably not.

00:50:10But just congratulations to you all,

00:50:14congratulations on your nominations by the President.

00:50:17Thank you for your service that has earned you

00:50:21that nomination, you hopefully, if confirmed,

00:50:25will be an incredibly important part

00:50:30of the judicial system in one of the busiest,

00:50:34most backlogged communities in the country.

00:50:37And so your service is definitely in high demand

00:50:41and needed, definitely appreciated and seen here,

00:50:45even if you don't get a lot of questions

00:50:47directed your way.

00:50:48With that, I'll turn my questions

00:50:50back to the conversation at hand.

00:50:57The Postal Service, as you all, you both know,

00:51:00Ms. Fisher and Ms. Poling, it is one of the most present

00:51:06ways in which our government shows up

00:51:09at the door of our constituents.

00:51:11And for states like mine, California,

00:51:16who today are experiencing thousands of acres on fire,

00:51:21it is an incredibly important service

00:51:24and lifeline for so many.

00:51:27And when Mr. DeJoy, Postmaster DeJoy was here

00:51:33just a few months ago, he and I had an exchange

00:51:36about a number of post offices in my state

00:51:40that have been closed for several reasons.

00:51:44Nevertheless, it has been, in some instances,

00:51:48years since those post offices have been reopened.

00:51:54And it remains an incredibly important

00:51:57point of conversation for me in a way

00:51:59in which I can serve my constituents.

00:52:02So I'm trying to try to get to, really quickly,

00:52:06you both of you have been serving on the PRC,

00:52:10and so what I'd love to do to hear about

00:52:13is what have you been doing to ensure

00:52:17that the needs of rural Americans have been considered

00:52:24in the plan and execution of the strategy

00:52:28that Mr. DeJoy is, and the leadership

00:52:31of the Postmaster General, have been deploying

00:52:35to ensure that those communities aren't overlooked.

00:52:37People think about California as this big urban place.

00:52:41It is one of the most diverse states in the country

00:52:44relative to language as well as geography.

00:52:47And so talk to me about your service up to now

00:52:51focused on rural communities.

00:52:54And I'm happy to start, Ms. Poland, with you this time.

00:52:57Thank you so much, Senator Butler.

00:52:59Appreciate the question.

00:53:01So rural America is near and dear to my heart.

00:53:04When I was working here on the committee,

00:53:05I actually worked for senators from North Dakota

00:53:08and Montana, Senator Heidi Heitkamp

00:53:10and Senator John Tester.

00:53:12So I have spent a lot of time out in those states

00:53:14really connecting with constituents

00:53:16and understanding what it is that they're dealing with.

00:53:19And the post office matters everywhere.

00:53:21I always think that's important to say.

00:53:23But there is a special connection in rural America

00:53:26that is different, I think.

00:53:27And it really is such a central part of those communities.

00:53:30So rural America has been front of mind for me

00:53:33ever since starting at the commission

00:53:35because it was a huge part of my work here in the Senate

00:53:37for those senators.

00:53:39And I think we are always, service is something,

00:53:44I've talked about it a little bit today

00:53:45with what we're doing with our public inquiry docket

00:53:48on the Delivering for America plan,

00:53:50making sure we're asking questions where we can there.

00:53:53I already mentioned, I think an advisory opinion

00:53:55does need to be filed.

00:53:56And I think that gives us a chance to really assess

00:53:58what is going on all over the country,

00:54:01especially in rural America, to your point.

00:54:03But in terms of something I think personally

00:54:05that I've done at the commission,

00:54:06specifically related to rural America,

00:54:09several years ago, the Postal Service

00:54:11lengthened service standards for portions

00:54:13of first class mail and periodicals.

00:54:16I supported unanimous advisory opinion for the commission,

00:54:20but I did provide an additional commentary.

00:54:22And I provided that commentary

00:54:24because the Postal Service did not reach out

00:54:26to examine the impact that this lengthening

00:54:29of service standards would have on rural Americans.

00:54:31They also did not look at how it would impact

00:54:34the elderly or low income Americans.

00:54:36So I wrote a separate statement about that

00:54:39and saying that that was something

00:54:40I really felt had to be looked at.

00:54:43That's something that still concerns me to this day.

00:54:45We have to understand what's going on

00:54:47in these different communities.

00:54:48So I can tell you that I will remain dedicated to this.

00:54:52I really hope we have the opportunity

00:54:54to assess what's going on in this plan

00:54:57through an advisory opinion.

00:54:58And I really think the commission can contribute greatly

00:55:02to your understanding of what's going on

00:55:04in California, but all over the country.

00:55:09I agree with you.

00:55:10Every state has a rural part of the state,

00:55:13or multiple rural parts of the state, including California.

00:55:17I've visited over the course of my career

00:55:21a number of different places.

00:55:23Small town in Wyoming that was served

00:55:26just maybe three times a week

00:55:27because of the level of rural it was.

00:55:31When I worked for Senator Collins,

00:55:33there were people who lived on islands

00:55:34and received mail somewhat sporadically by boat.

00:55:38I traveled with my family down into the Grand Canyon once.

00:55:41We were backpacking and I saw donkeys carrying mail

00:55:45down to the base of the Grand Canyon.

00:55:46So the Postal Service makes it happen,

00:55:49but I am concerned, as the Postal Service evolves

00:55:54and under the Delivering for America plan,

00:55:56that not enough attention is being paid

00:55:59to how that plan may impact

00:56:01the most remote areas of the country.

00:56:03They have a new service

00:56:05called Local Transportation Optimization,

00:56:08which has changed the amount of times

00:56:11that the postal trucks will visit

00:56:13the different post offices.

00:56:15The further out a post office is,

00:56:17the less it may be visited.

00:56:20If the mail is not picked up or delivered,

00:56:23that would directly impact the rural citizens.

00:56:26So I think your concern on behalf of your own constituents,

00:56:30but every member who has rural citizens

00:56:33has a right to be concerned.

00:56:35They are the ones in the most rural areas

00:56:37who are most reliant upon the Postal Service.

00:56:40They may not have an Amazon delivery driver

00:56:43or UPS or FedEx stopping by on a regular basis.

00:56:47That's a heart for me,

00:56:49as someone who grew up in South Dakota,

00:56:52is very aware of rural needs of citizens.

00:56:55I keep my eye on this

00:56:57and I am committed to continuing to doing so.

00:57:03Thank you, Senator Butler.

00:57:05Senator Marshall, you're recognized for your questions.

00:57:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:57:07We'll start with Ms. Poling.

00:57:08This is your second term, I believe.

00:57:11Over the last four years,

00:57:12Congress has given USPS $120 billion.

00:57:16How much money will we lose this year

00:57:18and what's the projection for the fiscal year right now?

00:57:23I appreciate the question.

00:57:25I think probably the best people to ask that question

00:57:28is the Postal Service.

00:57:29I want to make sure I get you the right number.

00:57:32So we lost, right, $6.5 billion last year,

00:57:36the Postal Service, which is very concerning.

00:57:39Why wouldn't I ask you that question?

00:57:41You feel like that's not a fair question?

00:57:43No, I just want to make sure

00:57:45I'm getting you the right information.

00:57:46So if that's okay, Senator,

00:57:47I'd love to get back to you on that.

00:57:50Okay.

00:57:51What's the fiscal projection for this year of losses?

00:57:55I think we're already at about 4.5 right now.

00:57:58Do you all, do they present a budget to the commissioners

00:58:02and then you go through it once a month, item by item?

00:58:05That's a really good question.

00:58:07That is not how the process works currently.

00:58:10We do, in terms of our budget process,

00:58:13we are putting together, as you know from the PSRA,

00:58:16our budget process changed at the commission.

00:58:18So we actually are, right now,

00:58:20in the throes of our budget as it stands.

00:58:22And we present that budget to the Board of Governors.

00:58:25And that's how we work on our budget for the commission.

00:58:29But no, they do not present us with a budget every month.

00:58:31We do meet quarterly with the Postmaster General.

00:58:33And they go through a budget then?

00:58:35They do give us basic updates then, yes.

00:58:37Basic?

00:58:38Yeah.

00:58:39Okay.

00:58:40We do that on, oh, I'm so sorry.

00:58:41I've never been a part of a board

00:58:43where I didn't feel a responsibility for that budget

00:58:46and going through it month by month.

00:58:48But that's not, I get it.

00:58:50Is the overall customer satisfaction

00:58:52in the postal services the past three or four years?

00:58:54What's the trend?

00:58:56I would say, in terms of satisfaction,

00:58:58I think it's been very frustrating these past few years.

00:59:02So it's the wrong direction?

00:59:03Yes.

00:59:04And do you all review the patient satisfaction,

00:59:06patient, I'm a doctor, the customer satisfaction?

00:59:09I understand.

00:59:10Customer satisfaction?

00:59:11Yes, we do.

00:59:12We actually have a customer experience metric in our,

00:59:16we have a 280304 report that examines service performance

00:59:20in greater detail than our annual compliance determination,

00:59:22which is our statutorily required report

00:59:25that is filed every year.

00:59:27We do look at customer experience there.

00:59:29And then constantly, right,

00:59:31we are looking at service metrics throughout the country.

00:59:34We do get quarterly service reporting

00:59:35from the Postal Service.

00:59:37Thank you.

00:59:37Oh.

00:59:38Thank you, that's good.

00:59:40I'm sure you're reviewing them.

00:59:41Yes.

00:59:41Ms. Fisher, Kansas is now the sixth worst in the country

00:59:46when it comes to on-time mail delivery,

00:59:48sixth worst, and it sounds like we're not the only state.

00:59:51So certainly, it's a crescendo of concerns from my folks.

00:59:56There's been a recent Inspector General report

00:59:58that audited their operations.

01:00:00They certainly, they address staffing shortages.

01:00:03We don't need to go into detail on those,

01:00:04but they describe a lack of compliance

01:00:08with standard operating procedures,

01:00:10a lack of compliance with standard operating procedure.

01:00:14If you were approved for this position,

01:00:17what could you do to hold those people accountable

01:00:20to get them to follow the standard operating procedures?

01:00:25Unfortunately, those are operational issues

01:00:29that are solely under the control of the Postal Service.

01:00:33But my hope is that they will file

01:00:36as they have promised an advisory opinion with us

01:00:40that will allow us to look in much greater detail

01:00:44in all the major operational changes

01:00:46they are making throughout the country.

01:00:48I was down in Topeka a couple months ago

01:00:53and had the great fortune to land on the day

01:00:55a series of twisters made its way through the city,

01:00:58which was something new for me.

01:01:00But I visited the local distribution center,

01:01:04which was impressive.

01:01:06But they also spoke of problems they were having

01:01:09with delays, hiring shortages, et cetera.

01:01:12I think there's a great lack of communication

01:01:15from the top down.

01:01:18Thank you.

01:01:20I'll go back to Ms. Poling.

01:01:22Why, I mean, how can you impact

01:01:25that they're not even following

01:01:27their standard operating procedures?

01:01:29Why haven't you impacted that so far?

01:01:32Thank you, Senator.

01:01:34I would echo, for us, right,

01:01:38we are the regulator, they are the operator.

01:01:40So there is definitely a distance

01:01:44between what we can do with some of the things

01:01:46in terms of operations.

01:01:48What we can do is provide transparency and accountability.

01:01:51So to the extent that we can.

01:01:52But tell me about the accountability.

01:01:53Why does that look like?

01:01:54How do you hold them accountable?

01:01:56Well, the powers we do have at the commission

01:01:58exist through our reporting, primarily,

01:02:00through our annual compliance determination.

01:02:02That is statutorily mandated by Congress.

01:02:04That was established under the 2006 bill.

01:02:07That allows us to issue directives

01:02:09when the Postal Service is not following things

01:02:11as they should.

01:02:12Now, primarily, that deals with rates and service.

01:02:15When it deals with standard operating procedures,

01:02:17I think that really is getting squarely

01:02:19into their jurisdiction with operations.

01:02:21So who do they answer to, then?

01:02:23They don't answer to Congress?

01:02:24They don't answer to you?

01:02:25These people that you're describing,

01:02:27why don't they, who do they answer to?

01:02:30I think it's an excellent question, Senator.

01:02:31And frankly, I think there should be

01:02:32a lot more oversight of the Postal Service.

01:02:34I think that there needs to be.

01:02:37We've experienced it.

01:02:38I'll use service as an example.

01:02:39I know it's been impacting you.

01:02:41I've read about the audit, right, in Kansas City.

01:02:43I understand that you all are dealing with that,

01:02:45and it's very frustrating for your constituents.

01:02:48As I mentioned, I work for senators

01:02:49for rural America myself.

01:02:51But that's somewhere, right, where it might be impactful

01:02:54to allow the commission to potentially have more authority

01:02:57when it comes to the advisory

01:02:59process.

01:03:00And that would require legislation?

01:03:01It would, indeed.

01:03:02Okay.

01:03:02Yes.

01:03:03Would you agree with me, and I think this goes

01:03:05to either Ms. Fisher or Ms. Poling,

01:03:06if we have time left to answer the question,

01:03:08that volumes are going down,

01:03:12and there's worse customer satisfaction,

01:03:15which leads to less volumes,

01:03:17which leads to worse customer satisfaction.

01:03:20This is a circular problem.

01:03:22Absolutely.

01:03:24So at the end of the day, if you have a good product,

01:03:27the customer satisfaction's going to go up.

01:03:30So it's not fair to just blame.

01:03:31I mean, we have to have accountability,

01:03:34accept the responsibilities,

01:03:35is what I'm trying to say here.

01:03:36Ms. Poling, would you agree with that,

01:03:38that we, the Postal Service,

01:03:40has to accept responsibility for the decreased volume

01:03:43because of customer satisfaction issues?

01:03:46Absolutely, absolutely.

01:03:47And I think it's something that really needs

01:03:49to be looked at in depth.

01:03:50And I think the commission,

01:03:51I know I've said this several times,

01:03:52but I think our ability to analyze what's going on

01:03:54with Delivering for America

01:03:56through an advisory opinion would be an excellent way

01:03:59for us to understand what's going on

01:04:01and what the impact is on customers all over this country.

01:04:04Mr. Chairman, I would just ask for an opportunity

01:04:06to sit down with your staff and our staff

01:04:08and help me to understand a little bit better

01:04:11how we could make the Postal Service

01:04:12more accountable to somebody.

01:04:14It sounds like right now that no one,

01:04:16they're not accountable to anybody.

01:04:18We'd be happy to have that conversation.

01:04:19We'll look forward to that, Senator.

01:04:21Senator Hessen, you're recognized for your questions.

01:04:23Well, thank you, Chair Peters,

01:04:24and I want to thank you and the ranking member

01:04:26for holding a very important hearing.

01:04:30To our nominees, thank you for your willingness to serve.

01:04:34And I just want to say to Ms. Gonzalez and Mr. Palmore,

01:04:37I too am going to be asking questions of the Postal Service,

01:04:40but please know how grateful I am to you

01:04:44for your willingness to share your expertise and your skill.

01:04:48And congratulations to you and your families

01:04:51for stepping up to serve in this way.

01:04:53It's really important.

01:04:55Let's start with questions to Ms. Fisher and Ms. Poling.

01:05:00Earlier this year, the Postal Service announced its plans

01:05:03to move some operations from the Manchester,

01:05:05New Hampshire Processing and Distribution Plant to Boston,

01:05:09which would cost employees their jobs

01:05:12and likely slow down delivery times.

01:05:14It may be just 50 miles from Southern New Hampshire

01:05:17to Boston, but I can tell you what the traffic looks like,

01:05:19and it's not good.

01:05:21Several other states are facing the same potential challenge

01:05:24of postal operations in their states

01:05:27being moved out of state.

01:05:28In response to pressure from Congress,

01:05:30Postmaster General DeJoy announced

01:05:32that he would pause operational changes

01:05:35until January of 2025.

01:05:37I continue to have concerns about any future plans

01:05:40to move operations from Manchester to Boston.

01:05:43As current members of the Postal Regulatory Commission,

01:05:46what have you done to conduct oversight

01:05:48of Postmaster General DeJoy's mail processing

01:05:52facility reviews, including the one

01:05:53in Manchester, New Hampshire?

01:05:55And we'll start with you, Commissioner Fisher.

01:05:58Thank you, Senator.

01:06:00We have not directly looked into your situation,

01:06:04though I'm very well aware this is a concern

01:06:07that's pretty broad-based across the country.

01:06:10The Postal Service is obviously trying

01:06:12to create efficiencies, but have they looked into

01:06:16or have they adequately analyzed the impact

01:06:19this is going to have on the customers?

01:06:21Clearly, there's going to be a change in days to delivery

01:06:25if you're taking what came out of a plant in New Hampshire

01:06:28and transporting that elsewhere to neighboring states.

01:06:32We can best look at it through the filing

01:06:35of an advisory opinion, and Commissioner Poling

01:06:38and I have cited that a couple times.

01:06:40They have assured us and they have assured the committee

01:06:44that they are going to file an advisory opinion soon

01:06:48that will give us broad latitude to look at exactly

01:06:51what's happening in New Hampshire

01:06:53and ask many more questions.

01:06:55Thank you, Ms. Poling.

01:06:57Thank you, Senator Hassan.

01:06:59Yes, I think we have been doing the most that we can,

01:07:03as I've gotten into a little bit today

01:07:05with the authorities we have.

01:07:08Do I think we could do more?

01:07:09Yes, and I think that we are doing,

01:07:12as I mentioned earlier, we are pushing as hard as we can

01:07:15to have this advisory opinion filed.

01:07:18That, I think, is really the place

01:07:19because all of these pieces that you all are talking about

01:07:22fall under this Delivering for America plan.

01:07:25But with that being said, we're still asking questions

01:07:27through the docket we have.

01:07:29We're still asking CHIRs,

01:07:30which are Chairman's Information Requests,

01:07:32and sometimes CIRs, which are Commission Information

01:07:35Requests, and we'll continue to do that.

01:07:38I think we have got, though, to make sure

01:07:42that we are getting answers from the Postal Service

01:07:44on what is going on.

01:07:46I know all of you have been very active.

01:07:48I've read all of your letters.

01:07:50Let me stop you there just because I have a couple

01:07:52more questions and running low on time.

01:07:55But I want to make this comment.

01:07:57You also should shine a light on how they are going

01:07:59about making these decisions.

01:08:01It was clear in our earlier hearing

01:08:02that they were not talking to employees,

01:08:04who are not robots.

01:08:05They are actually really well-informed professionals

01:08:07who have been doing this a long time.

01:08:09And so they need to be talking to employees.

01:08:11They need to know how long it takes to drive

01:08:13from Manchester, New Hampshire, down to Boston

01:08:16at the height of rush hour, or right now, any time of day.

01:08:20They need to understand the realities on the ground.

01:08:23And there has been nothing convincing in their responses

01:08:27to us that they really have done the kind of due diligence

01:08:31they should do before this decision.

01:08:32Now let me move on to another issue.

01:08:35Postmaster General DeJoy is also pushing something

01:08:38that you just mentioned, Ms. Fisher,

01:08:39his local transportation optimization plan,

01:08:42which would reduce how frequently trucks

01:08:44pick up mail from a plant.

01:08:46I understand that the Postal Service Inspector General

01:08:49opened an inquiry into how the Postal Service

01:08:52is implementing this plan,

01:08:53due to concerns that the Postal Service

01:08:55may be working with cheaper contractors

01:08:58who may not be reliable,

01:08:59and may not follow Postal Service security protocols.

01:09:03My office has heard concerns, for example,

01:09:05about the Postal Service terminating

01:09:07several longstanding contracts

01:09:09with a reliable New Hampshire-based trucking company.

01:09:12So has the Postal Regulatory Commission

01:09:15evaluated the impacts of the local

01:09:16transportation optimization plan

01:09:18on the security and timely delivery of the mail?

01:09:22And we'll start with you, Ms. Poling,

01:09:24and then Ms. Fisher, and please try to be brief.

01:09:26Yes, I would say we haven't been able

01:09:29to look at that in depth, because again,

01:09:31this is a part of the Delivering for America plan.

01:09:33I think, I'm hopeful that we could get more

01:09:35into that data and those details.

01:09:37One of the features of an advisory opinion process

01:09:39is there is a public hearing as well.

01:09:41It very much mimics the legal process.

01:09:43So I think that's one way we could do it.

01:09:45I also wanted to say, I greatly appreciated

01:09:48you sending over some of your questions

01:09:49ahead of time to us, that was very kind.

01:09:52You know, while we, the Postal Service

01:09:54is really responsible for the people,

01:09:56and hiring the people who carry the mail,

01:09:58one way we can ask about that

01:10:00is through our annual compliance determination,

01:10:02if that has an impact on service,

01:10:04and how it is delivered in a timely fashion.

01:10:07So that is one place we can address it.

01:10:08All right, thank you, Ms. Fisher.

01:10:11I understand what you're saying.

01:10:12I echo what Commissioner Poling said.

01:10:14I do know what you're talking about with the contractors.

01:10:17I've heard of, at a separate facility,

01:10:21a problem that was quite rural

01:10:22with actually finding contractors to bid on the mail.

01:10:25So sometimes they had no one to pick up the mail.

01:10:28That's a problem.

01:10:29I hope we can look into this as part

01:10:31of the advisory opinion process,

01:10:33and really appreciate you raising it.

01:10:35Thank you.

01:10:36And this is drilling down on the details that matter.

01:10:39Again, I'm a member from another rural state, too,

01:10:43and this is critical.

01:10:45Last quick question.

01:10:46We are just weeks away from the first mail-in ballots

01:10:49for the November elections,

01:10:51going out to voters in some states.

01:10:53Those ballots have to be delivered in a timely way

01:10:55to ensure that they arrive on time,

01:10:57and that these votes count.

01:10:59What can the Commission do to help ensure

01:11:01that the Postal Service is prepared

01:11:03to deliver mail-in ballots in a timely manner?

01:11:06And will you commit to working with me and my office

01:11:08in the coming months to conduct appropriate oversight here?

01:11:11So I'll start with Ms. Fischer, and then Ms. Poling.

01:11:15There really is nothing that we, as the Commission,

01:11:17can do to ensure this.

01:11:19I do know, though, we've asked the Postal Service

01:11:21a series of questions through our Delivering for Mail Act

01:11:25about their plans for the election cycle.

01:11:28They are the same as they have been before,

01:11:30as expeditious as possible.

01:11:32Movement of the mail, doing all clears in the post offices

01:11:36and the plants at the end of each day,

01:11:38having employees and paying for overtime,

01:11:40running extra trips with the trucks.

01:11:43But I am very concerned about the impact

01:11:47of the slower delivery times with Delivering for America

01:11:50and how that may impede election mail delivery.

01:11:53Right, and with your indulgence, Mr. Chair,

01:11:55I'll just get Ms. Poling to comment quickly.

01:11:58Thank you so much, Senator Hassan.

01:11:59Yes, election mail is incredibly important.

01:12:02We've gotta be focusing on that.

01:12:04One feature of the PSRA, actually,

01:12:07was creating a dashboard that the Postal Service has.

01:12:10One of the things the Commission recommended

01:12:12for that dashboard was including election mail on it.

01:12:15We can analyze it in a greater fashion

01:12:18when we get to the annual compliance report,

01:12:21but we will be doing all that we can

01:12:22to continue to ask questions through our current PI docket.

01:12:25And I will just note that when I talk

01:12:27to Postal Service employees who are on the ground,

01:12:30in the processing rooms, what they know at election time

01:12:33is when they see ballots, they prioritize them, right?

01:12:36And that's why some of the Postal Service

01:12:39Delivery for America plan is so misguided,

01:12:42because by putting in rigid requirements all the time,

01:12:45what they're doing is saying to a group of postal employees

01:12:48who see a stack of ballots coming in

01:12:50and know that there's one more group

01:12:52that needs to come in before the truck should go out,

01:12:55what the Postal Service is telling them to do

01:12:58is just get the truck out no matter what they know

01:13:01is coming, when in fact, in states like mine,

01:13:04we've been highly successful in getting absentee ballots

01:13:07in on time because Postal Service employees

01:13:10on the ground, citizens of New Hampshire,

01:13:12know what's at stake, and they get their job done.

01:13:15So again, this is about being in touch

01:13:17directly with employees, and I would really hope

01:13:19that the Commission, not just the service,

01:13:21will focus on that.

01:13:22Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:13:25Thank you, Senator Hassen.

01:13:26Senator Hawley, I recognize for your questions.

01:13:27Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

01:13:29Thanks to all of the nominees for being here today.

01:13:32Congratulations to you.

01:13:34Ms. Gonzalez, if I could just start with you.

01:13:36I was just looking at your resume here.

01:13:39It's very full.

01:13:40You look like someone who's very busy.

01:13:42You're a counsel at a law firm presently,

01:13:44Kaplan, Hecker, and Fink, is that correct?

01:13:48Yes, Senator, that is correct.

01:13:49And also a co-director at a civil rights clinic at Howard,

01:13:53is that correct?

01:13:53Is that right?

01:13:54That's correct, Senator.

01:13:55So it doesn't look like, to me,

01:13:56you have a lot of free time.

01:13:57I imagine that you choose what you invest your time in

01:14:00very carefully, is that fair to say?

01:14:03Yes, Senator.

01:14:04You are also on the board of a group

01:14:06called the Immigrant Justice Corps.

01:14:08Do I have that right?

01:14:10Yes, Senator.

01:14:11Let me just ask you about this group

01:14:14that you are a part of, that you're a board of directors,

01:14:16a member of, and the positions they've taken.

01:14:18They've taken a lot of positions.

01:14:19You've taken a lot of positions

01:14:20when it comes to immigration policy,

01:14:22including saying recently that this president's policy,

01:14:25President Biden's recent policy,

01:14:28to restrict temporarily some of the flow

01:14:31across our southern border,

01:14:33when on a given day there are multiple thousands

01:14:36of illegal migrants crossing.

01:14:38The president said that after there are multiple thousands

01:14:40on any given day,

01:14:41he would temporarily restrict somewhat the flow,

01:14:43which, by the way, I think is way too late in the game.

01:14:45He should be doing much more.

01:14:47Your group, however, has been exceptionally critical of this.

01:14:50They have said that any restriction of the flow

01:14:53across the southern border

01:14:55is an abhorrent betrayal of American values

01:14:59and is inhumane, cruel and inhumane, to be precise.

01:15:07Tell me about that.

01:15:08Is it your view that any enforcement of our immigration law,

01:15:11that if we have anything other than an open border,

01:15:14the policy is cruel, inhumane,

01:15:16and an abhorrent betrayal of American values?

01:15:19Thank you for the question, Senator.

01:15:22I do not believe that statement

01:15:24to reflect a request for open borders.

01:15:27I have never taken that position.

01:15:30I can tell you,

01:15:31I'm not familiar with that particular statement.

01:15:33I can tell you why I joined the organization,

01:15:36the board of the organization,

01:15:37and it is because I believe in its mission

01:15:39to provide quality counsel to individuals

01:15:42who are going through removal proceedings.

01:15:44It was an idea that was inspired

01:15:47by the late Judge Katzmann's study

01:15:49about the efficiencies of providing such counsel

01:15:52to individuals who are going through removal proceedings.

01:15:55And I understand that the organization

01:15:57engages in advocacy and policy,

01:16:00and that if confirmed, my role as a judge

01:16:02would be to put any such advocacy and policy aside.

01:16:06Well, let me just ask you,

01:16:07I don't mean to interrupt you,

01:16:08but my time is gonna tick down here quite quickly.

01:16:11I just wanna get clear on this.

01:16:12Is it your position that restrictions

01:16:15on the flow of illegal migrants,

01:16:17just to be, well, let me just ask you

01:16:19this more fundamentally.

01:16:20Do you believe we have a crisis at the southern border?

01:16:24Senator, I do not believe it is my position

01:16:27to opine on such policy questions.

01:16:29I think those policy questions are very important

01:16:31for this body.

01:16:32But you're a member of a board of directors.

01:16:33You're a director at an organization

01:16:35that has taken many such positions.

01:16:37So it seems to me you have taken a position.

01:16:39Your organization certainly has.

01:16:41You represent them.

01:16:42You're a member of that board.

01:16:44You choose your time very carefully,

01:16:46as we established just a moment ago.

01:16:48They say that any restriction

01:16:49on the flow of illegal migrants,

01:16:51I wanna be clear about this,

01:16:52illegal migrants is abhorrent.

01:16:54It is a betrayal of American values.

01:16:56It's cruel and inhumane.

01:16:59Does that, is that your position?

01:17:02Senator, I am not familiar with that specific statement.

01:17:05My affiliation-

01:17:05In the fifth 2024,

01:17:07it's a press release from your organization.

01:17:10My affiliation with the organization

01:17:11does not commit me to every position

01:17:14it takes on law and policy.

01:17:15So this is not your position?

01:17:16No, Senator.

01:17:18I disagree with this.

01:17:18Senator, I joined the organization

01:17:20to support its mission to provide counsel

01:17:22to individuals going through removal-

01:17:23Okay, let me ask you about that,

01:17:24since you bring that up.

01:17:26You have also advocated for providing counsel,

01:17:29in fact, taxpayer-funded counsel,

01:17:33to every asylum seeker at our border.

01:17:37Do you know how many credibility

01:17:39and fear determinations the Customs

01:17:43and Immigration Service performs

01:17:44just in 2023 at the southern border?

01:17:48No, Senator.

01:17:48I am not aware of that number.

01:17:49146,000.

01:17:52146,000 in 2023 alone.

01:17:55So you are in favor of taxpayer funding for attorneys

01:17:59for at least 146,000 illegals.

01:18:03Is that right?

01:18:04Senator, I was counsel on two matters

01:18:07that advocated for the right of counsel

01:18:10for a limited class of non-citizens.

01:18:12This is your organization

01:18:13that you're a member of the board of directors of.

01:18:14On May 27, 2022, your organization submitted

01:18:19this official comment to a DHS rule

01:18:21in which you specifically advocated

01:18:23for counsel to be provided at government expense

01:18:26to all asylum seekers.

01:18:27I mean, that's quite a position.

01:18:28So we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people

01:18:31that are gonna get government,

01:18:32illegal migrants are gonna get

01:18:33government-funded attorneys under your proposal.

01:18:36Is that right?

01:18:37Is that your position?

01:18:39Senator, any policy position that I have taken

01:18:42in my role as an advocate,

01:18:44I understand that I would be taking an oath

01:18:46to put that aside and to dedicate myself instead

01:18:49to the fair and impartial application of the law.

01:18:51And that is what I commit to you I would do in every case.

01:18:53Do you still think that detaining people

01:18:55to the border is motivated by, I'm quoting now,

01:18:58motivated by financial incentives

01:19:00and political calculations rather than any legitimate

01:19:03or evidence-based purpose?

01:19:06Senator, I'm not familiar with that statement.

01:19:08Well, that's from another statement made

01:19:10by your organization in September 22nd, 2021.

01:19:14Let me just say it again.

01:19:15Detaining people at the border is motivated

01:19:18by financial incentives and political calculations

01:19:21rather than any legitimate or evidence-based purpose.

01:19:25That just seems crazy to me,

01:19:27to say that enforcing our laws

01:19:28and detaining folks who are here illegally,

01:19:30crossing illegally, is motivated solely

01:19:34by financial incentives and political calculations.

01:19:36Do you agree with that?

01:19:38Senator, I joined the organization

01:19:40to support its mission to provide counsel.

01:19:42Yeah, I've heard that answer, but do you agree with this?

01:19:44You're a member of the board of directors

01:19:46of this organization that, frankly,

01:19:47has taken crazy positions over and over.

01:19:50I'm just wondering if you agree with these positions.

01:19:54So this is just a yes or a no.

01:19:55Do you agree that detaining people to the border

01:19:58is motivated solely by financial incentives

01:20:01and political calculations?

01:20:03Senator, I'm not familiar with that position.

01:20:05But do you agree with it?

01:20:06It's from your organization

01:20:08that you sit on the board of directors of.

01:20:09Just do you agree with it, yes or no?

01:20:11Senator, I'm not familiar with the context.

01:20:13Do you agree with it?

01:20:13You're not gonna answer my question, it sounds like.

01:20:15Senator-

01:20:16You just say yes if you agree, that's fine.

01:20:18But say no if you don't.

01:20:19I mean, I'd like a yes or a no answer.

01:20:21It's a simple question.

01:20:22You're on the board of directors.

01:20:23They've issued this.

01:20:24Do you agree, yes or no?

01:20:27Senator, I joined the organization

01:20:28to support its mission- Oh, goodness.

01:20:30This is disappointing.

01:20:31I don't understand why you won't,

01:20:32why won't you answer me?

01:20:33Are you afraid of the answer that won't be popular?

01:20:35I mean, why are you distancing yourself from it now?

01:20:38Aren't you still a member of this organization?

01:20:39You're still on the board, aren't you?

01:20:40Yes, Senator, I still sit on the board.

01:20:42Okay, well, so you don't agree

01:20:43with any of these positions?

01:20:44You just, you won't say now whether you agree or not.

01:20:47Is it because they're so radical?

01:20:48Senator, my personal position on any policy issue

01:20:52would play no role in the job that I would perform

01:20:56as a judge if I were to be confirmed.

01:20:57You've also written a paper in which you say

01:20:59that you don't think police ought to enforce traffic laws

01:21:03because it may lead to inequity.

01:21:05Do you remember that paper from 2023?

01:21:08Yes, Senator.

01:21:09Why is that?

01:21:10You don't want police to enforce traffic laws?

01:21:12I mean, it just seems to me,

01:21:13I'm having trouble following your positions here.

01:21:15You don't want the immigration laws to be enforced.

01:21:18You apparently think that any detention of illegals

01:21:21at the border is motivated by political calculations

01:21:23and is illegitimate,

01:21:25and you don't want police to be enforcing traffic laws,

01:21:27but you wanna be a judge.

01:21:29How's this gonna work?

01:21:31Senator, the piece that you are citing,

01:21:34documented efforts by cities

01:21:36along with police departments

01:21:38and in some cases actually led by police departments

01:21:40to move enforcement of things like hanging an air freshener

01:21:44from a rear view mirror to, for example,

01:21:48ticket by mail or parking enforcement,

01:21:50which would in turn free up police resources

01:21:52to focus on more serious enforcement.

01:21:55I'm almost done, Mr. Chairman.

01:21:57Not just that, though.

01:21:58I mean, I encourage people to read the paper.

01:22:00In fact, I've got it right here.

01:22:01It's 14 pages.

01:22:02Mr. Chairman, I'd ask consent to enter into the record

01:22:04the road to driving equality.

01:22:08Frankly, it is full of positions

01:22:11that I think are just nuts.

01:22:13I mean, saying that things like running traffic lights,

01:22:16stop signs, these things can't be enforced,

01:22:17that the police ought to get out of enforcement

01:22:19of traffic laws altogether.

01:22:21I mean, I don't understand it.

01:22:22It sounds like to me,

01:22:23you don't want enforcement at the border.

01:22:24You don't want enforcement of our traffic laws.

01:22:26You don't want police enforcement in our cities.

01:22:28I just question whether that is a good set of perspectives

01:22:31to be a judge whose job will be to enforce the law.

01:22:33Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:22:34Thank you.

01:22:35Senator Rosen, recognized for your questions.

01:22:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:22:40I guess I will go get right into it.

01:22:43I'm going to talk about access to postal service data.

01:22:47I want to build a little bit upon what Senator Hassan

01:22:50was alluding to earlier.

01:22:51So, Ms. Poling, as I'm sure you're aware,

01:22:54the Postal Service is attempting to relocate

01:22:57mail out processing, excuse me,

01:22:59from Reno, Nevada to Sacramento, California.

01:23:03I'm extremely concerned by this really misguided decision

01:23:07and the terrible impact it's going to have on Nevadans,

01:23:10including our seniors, our veterans,

01:23:12our small business owners, our rural communities

01:23:14who depend on the post office for on-time service.

01:23:18And so as the independent regulatory agency

01:23:21tasked with ensuring transparency

01:23:23and the accountability of the Postal Service,

01:23:26the Postal Regulatory Commission must continue to play

01:23:30a key role in assessing the soundness

01:23:32of major operational changes like the proposed downsizing

01:23:36of the Reno Processing and Distribution Center.

01:23:39And so as such, it's critically important

01:23:42that the commission has access to the data.

01:23:45I'm going to say this.

01:23:46We must have access to the data

01:23:49that the Postal Service relies on to inform us

01:23:52of its major operational changes.

01:23:54So we can take a look at that.

01:23:57So Ms. Poling, giving the Postal Service's

01:23:59continued refusal to provide this committee

01:24:03any specific data regarding how the Reno proposal

01:24:06will impact mail service delivery,

01:24:09I'm going to ask you a couple of questions.

01:24:12Either before or after the USPS announced

01:24:15it would attempt to proceed with the downsizing of the Reno,

01:24:18we call it the PNDC, despite opposition

01:24:21from Nevada's congressional delegation,

01:24:24our governor, Joe Lombardo, and Nevada residents.

01:24:27Did Mr. DeJoy provide the commission

01:24:30with any specific data on how his proposal would,

01:24:34these changes to Reno's PNDC would impact

01:24:37service delivery times in northern Nevada?

01:24:40And if the USPS asserted that service delivery

01:24:43would not be impacted, did Mr. DeJoy or his staff

01:24:47provide written justifications explaining

01:24:50how this could be possible,

01:24:52giving the substantial impediments to on-time delivery

01:24:57his plan would be creating?

01:24:59Thank you, Senator Rosen.

01:25:00And I greatly sympathize and understand

01:25:03why you're so frustrated.

01:25:05I worked for rural senators right on this committee

01:25:08for years and constantly was working

01:25:10to hold the Postal Service accountable.

01:25:12So appreciated our conversation

01:25:14and the staff interview as well.

01:25:15Yeah, people rely on the mail in our rural areas,

01:25:17our veterans, our seniors, it's really important.

01:25:20I absolutely agree, 100%.

01:25:22In terms of that, you're asking about the specifics

01:25:24of if that information was given

01:25:26to the commission by Mr. DeJoy.

01:25:28No, we do not have that specific information.

01:25:31I will say this, and again, I actually know

01:25:34that you are a sponsor of the newest legislation

01:25:36with Chairman Peters over here.

01:25:39One of my favorite provisions of that legislation

01:25:41is asking the Postal Service for making sure

01:25:45they're giving us the data we need in an advisory opinion.

01:25:47That is essential, you're right.

01:25:49And right now, we have an open PI docket

01:25:51on the Delivering for America plan.

01:25:53We are able to ask a number of questions,

01:25:55but I do believe we can probably have access

01:25:58with or without this legislation.

01:25:59I think we will have more ability to get those answers

01:26:02through an advisory opinion

01:26:03because it is a more formal process.

01:26:05But I just wanted to additionally say,

01:26:07I think that is a really great piece

01:26:10that you guys put in that legislation,

01:26:11that you all put in this legislation,

01:26:13and I really think it would benefit us in our oversight.

01:26:16Thank you.

01:26:17Postmaster DeJoy needs to show us the data, as they say.

01:26:22But Ms. Fischer, and then again, Ms. Poling,

01:26:25have you or any other members of the commission

01:26:27seen any weather contingency plan from USPS

01:26:31that include Nevada-specific data

01:26:33accounting for the unique weather challenges

01:26:35presented by snow, wildfires, severe weather

01:26:38that cuts off Interstate 80,

01:26:40of course, going over that Donner Pass

01:26:42from Reno to Sacramento.

01:26:45That's the only way, the only way, one way,

01:26:48one highway to get there for days and weeks at a time.

01:26:52Have you seen any weather data

01:26:53or contingency plans for the weather data?

01:26:55I think we have an average per year over 30 days a year

01:26:59where that pass is closed.

01:27:03The commission's well aware of the concerns you have,

01:27:06and I watched with great interest your exchange

01:27:09with Postmaster General during the most recent hearing.

01:27:12I'm amazed that you have not seen the data

01:27:15that you've been requesting.

01:27:16I fully understand the situations

01:27:20that weather issues can cause

01:27:21and then spread throughout surrounding regions.

01:27:26I often want to turn to myself.

01:27:29The best way we could get at this situation

01:27:32that's being brought about by a change

01:27:34in the processing and distribution of your local mail

01:27:36is through an advisory opinion, as we keep mentioning,

01:27:39and you're a co-sponsor of legislation.

01:27:43The law that put into place the advisory opinion process

01:27:46was written in 1970, and it gives the Postal Service

01:27:50100% of the power of when to determine

01:27:53they need to file an advisory opinion.

01:27:56They say when something they're going to do

01:27:58is going to impact the service nationwide.

01:28:01I wonder if maybe the regulator should be in charge

01:28:05of determining when the public will be impacted

01:28:08and then tell the Postal Service

01:28:09you must file an advisory opinion request.

01:28:12Ms. Poehling.

01:28:14Yes, so, well, first to answer your question,

01:28:16no, we did not receive specifics on weather

01:28:19about the Donner Pass, but I would say yes.

01:28:22I actually think, even going back,

01:28:24you were speaking about rural America,

01:28:26specifically, Senator.

01:28:27Several years ago, when the Postal Service

01:28:29lengthened service standards,

01:28:31I made a point to actually draft an additional commentary

01:28:34speaking to rural America, and also in that,

01:28:37I mentioned that I think greater oversight

01:28:39of the advisory opinion process

01:28:41would be hugely beneficial.

01:28:43As Commissioner Fischer just mentioned,

01:28:45I think that it would be wonderful

01:28:47if there was, maybe we were more involved

01:28:49in that process of determining

01:28:50when that opinion should be filed,

01:28:52but I really think that the bill you all have introduced

01:28:56really goes in the right direction,

01:28:57so I am hopeful that that will help give us greater oversight

01:29:00and, in turn, give you greater transparency

01:29:02into what's going on.

01:29:03Well, thank you.

01:29:04I'm not sure that Postmaster has that data,

01:29:06because when I asked him if he knew about

01:29:09how the weather was on the I-80

01:29:11and how often it was closed,

01:29:13he actually sat there, where you're sitting, I believe,

01:29:16Ms. Fischer, and said, why would I know that?

01:29:19I would say he needs to know that,

01:29:20because he's the Postmaster General,

01:29:22so it is really important.

01:29:24And so, for both of you, quickly,

01:29:26can I finish this question?

01:29:27Thank you.

01:29:28If confirmed, would you support a statutory requirement

01:29:33that USPS submit, just what you asked,

01:29:36major operational changes for the commission to review?

01:29:41And if you ultimately are tasked

01:29:43with issuing an advisory opinion

01:29:44on aspects of the Postal Network Service changes,

01:29:48will you commit to collecting the data

01:29:51on the potential impacts, severe weather,

01:29:54geography, or any other conditions

01:29:56that may have impact on mail service reliability

01:30:01and performance?

01:30:02You can answer yes or no.

01:30:05Yes, absolutely.

01:30:08Absolutely.

01:30:09Thank you, appreciate you being here today.

01:30:12Thank you, Senator Rosen.

01:30:15Starting to wrap this up,

01:30:16then I'll have to have a couple of questions

01:30:18for our judicial nominees here.

01:30:23It's all about the post office today.

01:30:25But that's either good or bad, depending on your,

01:30:30we love our mail.

01:30:31Ms. Aguinaldo-Gonzalez and Mr. Palmer,

01:30:34these questions are for you.

01:30:35And we'll start with Mr. Palmer,

01:30:36and then Ms. Gonzalez.

01:30:38You both have extensive appellate litigation experience,

01:30:43which is great.

01:30:44But my question for both of you is,

01:30:45what challenges do you anticipate facing

01:30:49as you shift from your role as an advocate

01:30:51to your role as a impartial adjudicator?

01:30:55And basically, how are you preparing

01:30:57to make that transition if you are confirmed?

01:31:02Thank you for this question, Senator Peters.

01:31:04I had the privilege of clerking for three different judges

01:31:08at the outset of my legal career

01:31:10who really modeled for me what it was

01:31:12to be a neutral arbiter every day.

01:31:15The hard work, the integrity,

01:31:17the ability to listen to parties.

01:31:20And I've held that model before me

01:31:23throughout my career as an advocate.

01:31:25But of course, as an advocate,

01:31:26it's a fundamentally different role.

01:31:27My job and my ethical obligation has been

01:31:30to zealously represent the interests of my clients.

01:31:34As a judge, if I'm so fortunate to be confirmed,

01:31:38I would swear an oath to impartially apply the law

01:31:43and to be scrupulously neutral.

01:31:45And that's an oath that I would seek

01:31:47to fulfill every single day if I was fortunate enough

01:31:50to be confirmed to the job.

01:31:51Very good.

01:31:54Thank you for the question, Senator.

01:31:56I am very aware of the differences

01:31:58between the role of an advocate

01:32:01and the role of a judge.

01:32:01As an advocate, my job has been every day

01:32:04to zealously advocate for the positions of my client.

01:32:07That has been my duty.

01:32:09I understand that the role of a judge

01:32:11would be very different.

01:32:13And like Mr. Palmore, I've had the privilege

01:32:16of throughout my career serving for judges

01:32:20who have modeled that for me,

01:32:22who have modeled what it means to come into a case

01:32:24with an open mind without having prejudged the issues

01:32:28and looking at the law and letting the law

01:32:31and the facts guide the analysis.

01:32:32And that is what I would aim to do every day.

01:32:36I would take that oath and I would take it seriously

01:32:38and do that every day if confirmed as a judge.

01:32:42Very good.

01:32:43As you may know, this committee has recently focused

01:32:45on considering and advancing several nominations

01:32:49for Superior Court for the District Court of Columbia,

01:32:51which is the local trial court.

01:32:54But it handles one of the highest volumes of cases

01:32:57in the country.

01:32:58It's struggling right now to keep up with that workload

01:33:02because the vacancy's on the bench.

01:33:03We have that in the Court of Appeals as well,

01:33:05which you've been nominated for.

01:33:07So how do you see the role of Court of Appeals

01:33:11in promoting a more effective judicial system

01:33:15in the district right now, which is, as I mentioned,

01:33:19undergoing significant challenges?

01:33:21Ms. Gonzalez, you wanna start,

01:33:22and Mr. Palmore, you can take the second.

01:33:24Thank you for the question, Senator,

01:33:26and for the opportunity to address

01:33:28this very important issue.

01:33:29I am very aware of the need for the courts

01:33:33to work through the backlog of cases,

01:33:35some of which have been pending for many years.

01:33:38But to balance that with the need to give every case

01:33:40the attention and care that it deserves,

01:33:43I think the way that I would do that,

01:33:45I would contribute to those efforts at the court,

01:33:47would be to bring the skills and the management style

01:33:51that have served me well as a litigator.

01:33:53I am not unfamiliar with having a heavy caseload

01:33:58and having competing deadlines.

01:34:00And what I would do is make sure that I am setting

01:34:03very clear internal deadlines within chambers

01:34:06about when a decision will be circulated and reviewed,

01:34:10that I work with my colleagues to do the same

01:34:13for the external process, and that I play my role

01:34:15by responding promptly to my colleagues'

01:34:18circulated opinions.

01:34:20And that is the way that I see both the court

01:34:23can advance the Court of Appeals' own backlog,

01:34:26but also help with the Superior Court's backlog,

01:34:28because those opinions provide guidance

01:34:30to the judges on that court,

01:34:32so that they can move their cases forward

01:34:34promptly and efficiently.

01:34:36Very good.

01:34:37Mr. Palmar.

01:34:38Thank you, Senator.

01:34:39Yes, the backlog is a big problem on the Court of Appeals,

01:34:43because as you mentioned, there have been vacancies

01:34:45for many years, and I think particularly with the docket

01:34:48of this court, with a heavy number of criminal cases,

01:34:51with family law cases involving child custody,

01:34:54parental rights, these cases really matter

01:34:58to the parties involved.

01:35:00They may be probably the most important thing

01:35:02in the world to those parties,

01:35:04and it may be their only encounter

01:35:05with the judicial system.

01:35:07So I, like my colleague, I have many years

01:35:10of busy appellate practice, where I've always had

01:35:14to juggle multiple matters and meet deadlines,

01:35:16and I would commit myself to working

01:35:19with my colleagues on the court

01:35:21to help reduce the backlog, and to make sure

01:35:23that my own work is done expeditiously,

01:35:26because the parties to these cases,

01:35:28they need answers, they need the right answer, of course,

01:35:31but they need answers in an expeditious fashion.

01:35:35Very good.

01:35:36Well, thank you.

01:35:36I want to thank each of our nominees

01:35:39for joining us here today, and for your willingness

01:35:42to serve in all of these important positions

01:35:45that you're up for.

01:35:47The nominees have filed responses

01:35:49to biographical and financial questionnaires.

01:35:52Without objection, this information is gonna be made part

01:35:55of the hearing record, with the exception

01:35:57of financial data, which is on file

01:35:59and available for public inspection

01:36:01in the committee offices.

01:36:03The hearing record will remain open

01:36:05until 12 p.m. tomorrow, July 26th,

01:36:08for the submission of statements

01:36:10and questions for the record.

01:36:11This hearing is now adjourned.

01:36:15Thank you.

The Senate Homeland Security Committee Holds A Hearing On Pending Nominations

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