- 15/06/2024
In this edition, we break down what the results of the EP elections will mean for the EU's future.
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00:00Hello there and welcome to Brussels My Love, Euronews' weekly talk show on all the news
00:17bubbling here in Brussels and beyond. I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for joining us. Coming
00:23up this week, the continent has voted and the results are in. The winners, the pro-EU
00:29right European People's Party. The losers, the Greens and the Liberals. And seeing surging
00:35support, the far-right Nationalists now will start the game of forming coalitions among
00:41the 720 MEPs. A kind of political speed-dating. We look at what message voters have sent to
00:48the EU, especially in France where the election shook the establishment to its core. And 51.01%,
00:56the final percentage of eligible Europeans that voted in the European Parliament elections
01:01last weekend. The low turnout really shows just how far from people's daily lives EU
01:06elections can seem. We take a closer look at what this voter apathy means for the future
01:11of the EU and ask what needs to change to give the European Parliament more sex appeal.
01:17With our panel, Tom van den Driege, Flemish MEP with identity and democracy in the European
01:21Parliament. Welcome. Sophia Ruzak from the independent think-tank CEPS. And Eoghan Dray
01:27from the EPP think-tank, the Wilfrid Martin Centre. Thank you so much for coming into
01:32us. Lovely to have you with us. But as usual, let's just remind our viewers what the big
01:35headlines from these elections were. Four days of elections, 27 countries for 720 seats
01:45in this grandiose institution. But what the public is talking about is France. The EU
01:55elections showed just how unpopular the pro-European French president actually is and how much
01:59appeal the nativist radical right have become. Similar picture in Berlin, where the coalition
02:06of Olaf Scholz was shaking to its core and the xenophobic AfD swept up all the votes
02:11in Germany's east. With the Franco-German axis in turmoil, all eyes on the Italian Premier
02:18Giorgia Meloni, whose Brothers of Italy party had one of the best nights of its political
02:23life. The question now, will Italy's far-right leader become the kingmaker from these EU
02:31elections and pull the whole EU to the right with her? So that is the question. What a
02:39week it's been here in Brussels with so many various briefings on the elections. But Sofia,
02:44let's start with you, because you were in the parliament as well on Sunday night into
02:47the early hours of the morning. Have you been reading into these results? What's your take?
02:52Do you think the centre has held, as Ursula von der Leyen said in her victory speech?
02:56Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think there were very little surprises in that sense,
02:59right? The polls are quite accurate, that showed us already that indeed, the left is
03:03going to lose mainly because of the Greens and the Liberals, and the right, mainly due
03:08to the far right, is going to gain. A little surprise, I would say, is that the EPP did
03:11better than was predicted. But indeed, the centre holds.
03:16Why was that? Why did the EPP do so well, do you think?
03:19Well, I think actually, you know, France is probably a very good example of why the centre-right
03:25and the centre-left are so important in European politics. You know, President Macron, he came
03:29in, he split the centre-right, he split the centre-left. And now we're looking at a situation
03:34where Marine Le Pen is by far the largest party in the European Parliament, and it
03:38polls for the general election. So I think, you know, it's very important in a People's
03:43Party, like the European People's Party, that you give a voice to a lot of different viewpoints,
03:48be it from centre-right all the way across. And that's very important. And I think what
03:52the elections have shown, as Sophia has said, is that the EPP now is central to any coalition
03:57that will be built. There cannot be a coalition without the MPP.
04:01And we'll come back to that in a minute. But let's just bring in our Flemish interests,
04:05the name of your party, Flem's Belang. I mean, the ID group that you're affiliated with,
04:09it didn't do as well as everyone thought. I mean, you were hoping to do better. You
04:12got 58 seats. But at the end of the day, you'll still remain pretty powerless on the periphery
04:17of the European Parliament.
04:18Well, I'm not sure about that. Voters gave a clear message, and all of our parties are
04:23winning or entering Parliament now. For example, the Chega party from Portugal, the party of
04:28Geertruid, the PVV, got seven seats, if I'm correct. And they came in with one seat, one
04:34to seven seats now. My party retained its three seats, but we're the largest party in
04:39the whole of Belgium. Rassemblement Nationale is by far the largest in France. So basically,
04:46in Italy, we are also doing well, together with the party of Meloni, if I may put it
04:51this way. So I think the message is really clear. This election was about the climate
04:56matters of the Green Deal, and the asylum chaos with the EU Migration Pact. Now, I think
05:01we need to turn to the right, and I sure hope. We are open for business. We're here in Parliament
05:06to defend the interests of people. My party is called the Flemish Interest Party. So we
05:11are looking forward to meeting with all of the other members of Parliament and see what
05:16we can do.
05:17So you're open for business. You're very eager. But do you have any friends? That's the thing.
05:21Well, I think these parties now will have to make a decision, because to the right of
05:26the EPP, there's three basic groups. There's, I think, what can be described as the constructive
05:31Europeans, which is an element of the ECR. I would put Meloni in that. And then I think
05:37there are what I would call as the destructive Europeans, which are, you know, most of the
05:43ID group and elements of the ECR, which are very plain to the populist anti-EU rhetoric.
05:50If I may interrupt you, I don't accept calling us destructive European forces. I think basically
05:56what we are saying is that we want to reconstruct the European Union, how it was originally
06:00intended to be. So economic cooperation, we want to focus...
06:04Maybe anti-democratic would perhaps be more accurate. But just bring us then into that
06:08meeting. You had meetings yesterday or...
06:10Excuse me. Are you just saying we are anti-democratic?
06:12Slightly, yeah.
06:15Sorry, but if we want to continue this discussion, I hope we can have some, how shall I say,
06:21politeness. My party or my group is not an anti-democratic group or party. We promote
06:26democracy...
06:27But people who used to be affiliated with, were, for example, the members of the AfD,
06:31the Alternative for Germany, which have since kicked out of the party, would you take them
06:34back in?
06:35Well, we'll see what happens. All of the discussions are now going on. The groups are formed the
06:393rd of July. But if you want to continue this discussion, I hope I don't get any more
06:45of this name calling.
06:47Bring us into the meeting. You had talks this week in the hotel in Brussels with your colleagues.
06:52What is your plan for Europe and who are you hoping, again, to build alliances? You said
06:57you're open for business. So who and how do you see that?
07:01We start from the framework of the ID group. I want to stress that the ID group is mostly
07:05represented in the founding members of the European Union, the countries who are the
07:09most, the net contributors to the European Union. In all of these countries, set aside
07:15the AfD, but this is a specific case, we are the largest or the second party. So I think
07:21this signal of the voters cannot be neglected. So we start from the framework of the ID group
07:27and now we are into talks with all new parties coming in, with existing parties. We'll see
07:32what happens in the next weeks.
07:33Well, it will certainly be interesting. We'll have lots of new faces in the European Parliament.
07:37How will that shake things up? Because at the end of the day, that's the message as
07:40well voters have sent. We saw as well in countries like Ireland, a lot of people voting for independence.
07:45They really are moving off from the traditional parties. They don't really want business as
07:48usual, Sophia.
07:49Yeah, I think what is important to keep in mind is that there was no far right search
07:53as it is often portrayed, right? There is a rise and it is a steady rise already for
07:57the last 20 and even more years, right? And what we are actually seeing is that now we
08:03have about 24% MEPs sitting to the right of the EPP before it was about 22. And I think
08:08it's important for our discussion that we, you know, that we remind ourselves of this
08:11and that we don't use words like search.
08:14Indeed, and that everyone is open to compromise.
08:16May I add an element to this, what you are saying? Well, I think we'll need to look at
08:21it in a broader perspective. You look at the first election in 1979, then the socialists
08:26were the largest group until 1999. Then the EPP was the largest group until 2019. And
08:33these two groups together, they had a majority of at least 55%. I think you can agree with
08:39me on this. We have seen this majority being broken in 2019. Then the socialists and the
08:45Christian Democrats, they needed another group. And they looked at the left, the left, they
08:48looked at the Greens on occasion, they looked at the liberals. And now we see it is exactly
08:54the same. The EPP has the key, that's obvious. But which way is the EPP turning? Are they
09:00again turning to the left or turning to the right? I sure hope we will enter in mature
09:05discussions.
09:06Well, we have a gentleman here who's affiliated to a think tank who works with the EPP. And
09:11of course, we were looking this week at Ursula von der Leyen, now that the campaign is finished,
09:15the elections are over, all eyes on these coalition buildings. She said in her speech
09:20on Sunday night that she'll be reaching out to the socialists, she'll be reaching out
09:23to the renew, that they've worked so well. Will she, in your eyes, be the next president
09:28of the Commission?
09:29Well, I think just as a kind of a parliamentary and a democratic process, I think she has
09:34a clear mandate now that the EPP are the biggest party in the Parliament. Her name will go
09:39to the European Council. The EPP, I think, have 12 prime ministers in the European Council.
09:45So my expectation would be that her name will go forward then to the European Parliament
09:49for ratification. What happens in the European Parliament maybe is the subject of all the
09:56discussions at the moment.
09:58She comes out of these elections stronger, I would argue, right? The EPP is a bit stronger,
10:02the centre holds, Macron is weaker. So I think in the European Council, we would, we can
10:07expect her to be appointed. But indeed, the Parliament is another thing. And of course,
10:10it would make a mock, wouldn't it, of this whole Spitzenkandidaten process if she wasn't
10:14endorsed as the candidate.
10:18It has always been a laughable process. There is not such a thing as a European democracy
10:23or 27 different elections and voters determine on national interest who are they voting for.
10:31People cannot even vote for the Spitzenkandidaten. Not even all of the candidates were allowed
10:35in the debates. Just imagine that. You call us anti-democratic, the debates of the European
10:39Union. Our candidate was excluded from it.
10:41Well, the whole idea, of course, is to try and make these elections interesting and to
10:44put a face, right, to the whole elections.
10:47Yeah, it's true. But of course, indeed, this time around, I don't know how well this has
10:53worked, indeed.
10:54Well, look, this week, we've seen many people reacting to the outcome of those elections.
11:00Many wondering what kind of policies we'll see now in the next couple of years cooked
11:04up really over in the European Parliament and voted upon. For his take, we checked in
11:08with Friends of Europe's Darmendra Kanani. Take a listen.
11:11I think what we witnessed at this weekend was a very sad and tragic moment in Europe's
11:17history. Just as we were commemorating the heroes that brought freedom to Europe, we
11:22witnessed an ideology return from the past, from the 1930s, an ugly vision of people,
11:28an ugly vision of the future.
11:29The debate will become more toxic about migration, about values, what you and I owe each other,
11:35what you and I can expect from each other, what we can expect from government. It will
11:39be a different kind of social contract.
11:41The point that's made by individuals is that they don't trust politicians. They believe,
11:47and many of them said this this weekend, it's great, they seduced me for one day and they
11:51forget me for the rest. And I don't matter anymore. And I think that's really sad.
11:57The words there of Darmendra Kanani, who really was not pleased with the future that the European
12:02Union could take with so much at stake, for example, for the climate right now, when we
12:05need some sort of a Green Deal, we need, of course, to manage migration, you need a migration
12:09pact that works. We could see as well emerging trade wars in the next couple of months and
12:14years. And what about social Europe? I mean, poverty, social exclusion is a major problem
12:19and a major issue that needs to be addressed in order for the EU to actually function.
12:24What would you say to that?
12:26Well, for example, the Green Deal, what is wrong with the Green Deal? It's causing deindustrialization
12:33of Europe and it's causing impoverishment, the lack of purchasing power of ordinary people.
12:38And people have had enough of this.
12:40Even though it hasn't even been implemented yet, to be honest, it's still more just paper.
12:44Let me finish my argument, for example. If it is set aside these two aspects on a strategic
12:51level, it's complete nonsense, because if you want to electrify everything, for example,
12:57cars, then you need rare earth. Where are the world supplies of rare earth? In China,
13:01North Korea and Russia. Do we want to become dependent of these kind of countries?
13:05So and the second is the migration deal. My party and my group fully supports the right
13:11to asylum, but we only think it should be in the region of origin. The right to asylum
13:15cannot be misused as a right to migrate.
13:19These are serious challenges that will have to be addressed, right, by the incoming parliament,
13:23the incoming commission. Will they get it right?
13:26Yeah. If we look at, you know, what your barometer data tells us, then we see that climate change
13:31is still very much on people's minds and is still very much a concern. But the problem
13:35is that other issues came up, right? The world is not the same 24 anymore than it was 2019.
13:40So now security issues and competitiveness issues. So economics is back, right?
13:45And so I would say reality is back because Europe is good for 8% of the global CO2 emissions.
13:51We cannot save the world from Europe.
13:52I think what we will see in the next commission is kind of a refocusing on the older priorities
13:58of the European Union that many people think, you know, didn't get the attention that they
14:04should have over the last five years. So stuff like the single market drive wealth and affluence
14:08and economic growth. We're going to have an industrial policy. I don't think the Green
14:13Deal is dead, but I think we will have...
14:15It's going to be adjusted, in my opinion.
14:16We will have a more realistic, I think, implementation phase for the Green Deal, particularly when
14:21it comes to rural Europe, impact on farmers, stuff like that. So I think there will be,
14:28we hope, in the EPP, a refocusing on...
14:30Absolutely. And what is interesting, for all the topics you mentioned, ID Group is partnered
14:35to enter into negotiations.
14:36Well, we're curious to see how this new ID Group works in the next couple of years.
14:41Of course. We have always been very collaborative.
14:43And speaking of the ID Group, let's talk about France. We need to talk about France, right?
14:47I mean, the problem child, really, of the European Union, if you look across the board.
14:50I would call it the hope of Europe, not the problem child.
14:52You'd call it the hope?
14:53I don't know what kind of show this is.
14:57I mean, it's a problem in the sense that we've seen how in favour of European integration
15:02and Emmanuel Macron is, and in favour of a functioning Europe, and then...
15:07And he got voted out.
15:08Indeed, he's very unpopular.
15:09This is what a democracy is all about, I think. People having the power to vote out those
15:13in power.
15:14And that's why we have elections.
15:15And I hope we can cherish this all, that we do not need to vote for every time the same
15:19people in power.
15:20Let's just have a listen, actually, now to Emmanuel Macron, who really shook the European
15:25Parliament last Sunday to its core when he made a radical announcement on live TV. Take
15:30a listen.
15:31I have decided to give you back the choice of our parliamentary future by voting. I am
15:41therefore dissolving the National Assembly this evening. In a few moments, I will sign
15:45the decree calling for legislative elections, which will be held on the 30th of June for
15:50the first round, and on the 7th of July for the second. This is a serious and heavy decision,
15:56but above all, it is an act of confidence.
15:59An act of confidence.
16:01So there you go. A bit of a gamble there. I mean, what's your take on all this in France?
16:06It was a big surprise, right? We were both in the Parliament and these thousand journalists
16:10that were present, I think none of them had expected that, not even the Prime Minister
16:14apparently had known that he's going to do this.
16:16Look, I think he bases his assumptions on the fact that people vote differently in EP
16:21elections than they vote nationally. So we see that in European elections, people tend
16:25to vote more right-wing or generally more for the margins, let's say, and he hopes that
16:32the trend will be different on a national level.
16:34And how do the financial markets react to that news?
16:36Well, I think there was initial shock at the beginning, but we shouldn't forget that France
16:41has a lot of very deep-seated economic problems that go back way before Macron. It hasn't
16:46run a budget surplus since 1974, and there is a lot of nervousness on the financial markets.
16:54At current projections, France will have a higher debt to GDP than Greece by the end
16:57of the decade.
16:58And would, if Marine Le Pen, for example, if she was in the Elysee as of 2027, would
17:03she be able to fix those problems?
17:05I sure think that Marine Le Pen, for a lot of French citizens, is the person who gives
17:10hope for another kind of policy. And it's up to the French to decide on that. I'm not
17:15going to decide on what choice they should make, but I fully support this election result
17:19and I sure hope that Marine Le Pen will be elected president in 2027, which I think will
17:24be the next stop in this term.
17:26It's so important, I think, as a politician. You have a responsibility to spread a message
17:30of hope. The thing is, though, you need policies as well that work.
17:33Well, you have mentioned how good the policies work of those in power for the last 40 years.
17:39So I think France needs to change and I think maybe the whole of Europe needs to change.
17:43I think it's important to note, just on a factual basis, I remember in 2014, my first
17:47day in the Wilfrid Martin Centre, there was panic in Europe because for the 2014 elections,
17:53Marine Le Pen's big policy was that there would be a referendum on France's membership
17:57of the euro currency. If you check her election manifesto for 2014, that's all gone. She wants
18:05to reconstruct Europe from within.
18:09So I think what President Macron is trying to do is kind of trying to do the Finnish
18:13strategy, which is where they brought the true Finns into government. And of course,
18:20when that happens, their popularity halved almost overnight. It's a high-risk gamble.
18:25I'm not sure if it'll happen in France. The dynamics are different. We'll have to see.
18:29We have to see. We'll be reporting on it here on Euronews every step of the way, with France
18:34being such an important country of the European Union. And very interesting as well to see
18:38Giorgio Meloni, as well, surging in popularity in Italy and also...
18:42Yes, contradicting what you just said.
18:44Well, not necessarily, because Meloni's popularity over the last five years has actually just
18:50come up, you know, has been corresponded with a sharp decline in Salvini's popularity.
18:57So the support for the far right in Italy hasn't surged.
19:02Communicating voter blocs. I think you also see this phenomenon on the left. What I think
19:06about French politics is that we have seen the collapse of the traditional ruling parties,
19:10the Socialists and the Gaullist party, the Républicain, the UMP. So we have seen this
19:16collapse. And then the alternative is either to the left, the Islamo-Socialist party of
19:22Monsieur Mélenchon. And on the other side, there's the, like they call it in France,
19:27the Union des Droites, the union of the right-wing forces. And as today, Monsieur Chioti, Mr.
19:33Chioti, he announced that he will support Marine Le Pen. So things are moving. And I
19:38think in the direction of common sense policies.
19:40Well, on that point, we can close this discussion. Stay with us, though, here on Euronews, because
19:45after the break, we'll be taking a look at why so few people show up for the EU parliament elections.
19:51See you soon.
19:52Welcome back to Brussels, my love. I'm Maeve McMahon. And along with my guests, we're just
20:05taking a look back at the news of the week. Well, this week, as world leaders were soul
20:10searching at the G7 in Italy, the staff at the European Parliament were trying to come
20:14to terms with the turnout of the EU elections. Although the highest yet, it was just a tiny
20:19percentage higher than back in 2019. Surprising, given the effort they also put into working
20:25with platforms to raise awareness, as you can see there. Back in 2014, OK, it was 42.61%.
20:312019, it was right up to 50.66%. But then, last Sunday, it was just 51.01% that showed
20:39up. And why are people just not interested in these elections? What's wrong?
20:44Well, I guess one of the reasons is that people don't feel really represented here
20:49in parliament at European level. And the European Parliament is basically a phony parliament.
20:54It looks like a parliament, you can elect officials, but it's not a real parliament.
20:58You cannot sack the government because there is no government. You cannot file motions
21:03for law, for example, a proposed law. So I think it's difficult to sell the idea of being
21:10represented in the European Parliament. My party wants to abolish the European Parliament.
21:13Your party wants to abolish the European Parliament. But of course, it's a co-legislator now.
21:16It has much more power than it did in the past.
21:18Yeah, I see, you know, more of the political parties and the national media and responsibility here.
21:22We see that national parties invest less money in campaigning for the European Parliament.
21:26And we also see national media having a much less interest. I mean, the reporting is much
21:31thinner than on national elections.
21:33True. That is a very true point. Do you think it's disenchantment with EU politics?
21:38Is that the reason for voter apathy?
21:40Not so much in general. I think it's just still in people's minds run as 27 national campaigns.
21:46So it's the issues in Flanders or it's the issues in Ireland or in Germany, which are
21:50motivating voters primarily. I think like if you were trying to think of an analogy,
21:57the European Parliament elections are still more CNA than Chanel in the sense that, you know,
22:04people have a hierarchy of needs and probably like national elections are very much.
22:10But for these elections, it was popping up on Instagram, on YouTube, on Google that,
22:15you know, these elections are taking place. So people were even getting a nudge, but still.
22:19Well, yeah, I think we need to be very careful that we that we consider the real world
22:24and just not social media bubbles, even if it's run by the main tech companies in Europe.
22:29You know where I come from in rural County Kilkenny, you know,
22:32you know, people aren't going to vote because it pops up on Twitter or they're going to vote
22:36because their local school closed down or whatever like this.
22:39So I think I think sometimes people in Brussels kind of forget this.
22:43But for you, I know you spent a lot of time on social media and a lot of money as well,
22:49investing in being there, being where the people are on Instagram, on different platforms.
22:55How much did you spend on that?
22:56I think about 500,000 euros in the last five years.
22:58And I think it is necessary because of my party is the largest party in Belgium.
23:03And we have one percent on speaking time on public television.
23:06Just imagine that talking about democracy.
23:08So I think it's my duty as a representative to explain what my points of views are.
23:13What am I am I doing here in European Parliament?
23:16We also have communication budgets provided by the European Union to do this.
23:20So we are effectively using this to inform about their their representatives.
23:25Was that the right place to be or did you think it worked?
23:27I don't know how you would consider working it.
23:31I have a lot of reach on social media.
23:35So people know what I am what I'm doing here in Parliament.
23:39And I got 318,000 preferential votes, which is the second highest in Flanders, the second in Belgium.
23:45And one thing that was unique as well about the elections this time in Belgium
23:48was the fact that 16 year olds could go out and vote here for the very first time.
23:52And we wanted to hear how young people felt about this and the elections in general.
23:56So we took our microphones to the universities here in the city.
23:59It was my first time to vote during the European election.
24:03It was really special.
24:05I really like getting to have a say in our policies.
24:10And since this is really the only way we can do, I think it's very important to go vote.
24:14It's important that everyone votes to really show that we want to have the democracy
24:20and not want to have it destroyed by wrong directions, kind of.
24:24I think the majority of all laws and rules that are made currently are decided on European level.
24:30So this is the time for us citizens to say what we would really like.
24:35I think Europe is quite important for us. It's like a big, big thing, you know.
24:40And I think a lot of people try to push it down a bit.
24:44So I think it's really important to stick together as Europe.
24:47It's so interesting to hear the views there of young people,
24:49some of them voting for the very, very first time.
24:52Sofia, you've been looking into this researching.
24:54Do you think this is a good idea to have 16-year-olds go to vote?
24:57Well, I generally think it's a good idea.
24:59Research also has shown that the earlier people start to vote,
25:02the more likely it is that they keep on voting for their whole life,
25:04so that this democratic practice is really...
25:07But in Germany, if I can share this,
25:11we were a little bit surprised by how the young were voting.
25:14Because five years ago, the young, so the below-25-year-olds,
25:18they voted for... More than 30% of them voted Greens,
25:21and now it was 17% AfD and 17% Christian Democrats,
25:26and the Greens only in the third place.
25:28And that is quite surprising, right?
25:30That young people are getting so conservative.
25:32Perhaps that's an issue, but I think it's also an issue
25:36that they might be seeing the dysfunction at a national level in Berlin, for example.
25:40Yeah, yeah.
25:42And they feel they have no hope for the future.
25:44Yes.
25:45They can't afford a house.
25:46Yes, well, I think housing is becoming one of the critical issues
25:49that will define the next...
25:50Due to the Green Deal, the mandatory renovation of houses
25:53costs 200,000 euros on average in Germany.
25:56This may be one of the reasons.
25:58And if you add to that here, particularly in Flanders,
26:00the population density which is rising due to migration,
26:04well, indeed, housing prices, people just cannot afford it anymore.
26:07And what concretely will you be able to do now
26:09for the people who voted for you,
26:10the youth that are looking to you now as an MEP for housing?
26:12Yes, well, I'm one of 720 MEPs now,
26:14and I will defend their interests with every speaking time that I have
26:17and every tool at my disposition.
26:19But talking about the voting rights for 16-year-olds,
26:22my party is by far the largest.
26:24We are close to 30% amongst 16- to 24-year-olds.
26:27But we were not in favour of lowering the voting age.
26:30Voting is mandatory in Belgium.
26:32Why not?
26:33Because you're not even responsible if you do a criminal act, for example,
26:37at 16-year-old, your parents are responsible for you.
26:40How come you should go out and vote?
26:41And it was basically an idea of the Green Party here in Belgium
26:44because they looked at the 2019 election,
26:47and then there were a lot of climate activists,
26:49and they said, well, we need to give voting rights to these people
26:52so we will have more votes.
26:54Well, this blew up in their face.
26:55Well, from our report there earlier,
26:58it feels like people actually do, they enjoyed having that right.
27:01There can be a difference between what people see on the media
27:04and what is in reality.
27:05Well, we have viewers all around the place,
27:07so do get in touch with us here at Euronews
27:09and let us know how you feel about giving the vote at 16.
27:12But on that conclusion, we can bring this conversation to an end.
27:15Thank you so much to our panellists for being with us here this weekend,
27:18and thank you so much for watching.
27:20If you want any more in-depth analysis on any of those results
27:24and how, of course, those coalitions and alliances are looking,
27:26check out our website.
27:27It's euronews.com.
27:29See you soon.
27:36Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
27:39I'm Maeve McMahon, and along with my panel,
27:41we're talking through the news of the week,
27:43which, of course, was dominated by the elections.
27:45And one country we didn't want to leave out was Belgium,
27:48the de facto EU capital and the home of NATO,
27:51as last Sunday was Super Sunday here,
27:54a triple vote that's shaken up Belgian politics
27:57and seen as well the resignation of the Prime Minister, Alexander de Kroo.
28:00But we want to know how long it could take for this country
28:03to form a new government, and if we could be faced with months of gridlock,
28:06like we were in the past.
28:08So let's take a listen first to the Belgian political scientist, David Sinnerday.
28:12There's something very special about this Belgian election,
28:15that is that it seems quite simple and that it could go quite fast,
28:19in theory at least, which is quite an extraordinary situation for Belgium.
28:23At the federal level, there is one big question,
28:26that is how much importance will the NVA attach to institutional reform,
28:32to state reform, Flemish autonomy,
28:34because if they really put this high on the agenda,
28:37that might complicate things,
28:39so it won't be easy to try and compensate different visions
28:45by throwing some money at the problem.
28:48So you go, Professor Davidson,
28:50they're giving us his take on the current state of Belgian politics.
28:53It's, of course, a complicated country.
28:55We can show perhaps our viewers as well a map,
28:57and you can talk us through the map, maybe, Tom,
28:59as the only Belgian here around the table,
29:01The North is a Flemish region, and we're more than 60% of the population,
29:05we're good for 70% of taxes being paid,
29:08good for 80% of exports, but we only have 50% of political power,
29:12and the financial transfer from Flanders to Walloon region
29:15is higher in percents of GDP than from West to East Germany
29:18after communism fell, just imagine that.
29:20But something very interesting happened now,
29:22is that in the Walloon region,
29:24which is traditionally dominated by socialist and communist parties,
29:27now the Liberal Party and the centrist Christian Democratic Party
29:30have a majority.
29:31And, of course, that map doesn't show it all.
29:33There's also a Flemish part in Wallonia
29:35and a Wallonian part in Flanders,
29:37and you are based in Flanders and also had the opportunity to vote,
29:40so Belgian politics is close to your heart.
29:43What's your take on what's happening?
29:45For the last five years, Belgium has been very successful
29:48in ignoring the need for economic reform.
29:51It's got high debt, low growth.
29:53I think it's very, very important that the next government
29:55at a federal level is a centre-right-led government,
29:59which is a government to implement reforms
30:02and get the country back on track.
30:04You're telling people exactly what they don't want to hear,
30:06because, of course, Wallonia has been very left-wing
30:08and, indeed, Flanders a bit more right,
30:10so it's hard, Sofia, isn't it, to find a compromise here?
30:12But I think one misconception, at least in the media,
30:14that I hear all the time, to my understanding,
30:16is that de Croo, he didn't resign because of the defeat.
30:18He would have resigned anyhow
30:20because it is a constitutional practice, right?
30:22It just adds a bit of drama, doesn't it?
30:24When a prime minister has to resign on the night...
30:27I think, actually, in this case, which is very unusual,
30:30I think Wallonia sets the template.
30:32We've already had the French-speaking Liberals
30:35and the French-speaking Christian Democrats come together
30:38to say they're going to form a government in Wallonia.
30:40I think it's very important for Belgium
30:42that a new federal government is elected
30:44before the local elections in October for that stability.
30:47And the keys, I guess, lie in the hands now
30:49of N-Ve-Ano and Bart de Wever, the mayor of Antwerp.
30:52And especially on the promises Bart de Wever made to the voters.
30:55First of all, I'm going to balance the budget,
30:57so we cut spending.
30:58Good luck with that, with Walloons,
31:00even if they are on the right,
31:02because Vlaarders is paying the bill of Wallonia.
31:04And second is the institutional reforms.
31:06We want more power, fiscal autonomy, for example,
31:09that we can have the policies we want
31:11and the Walloons can have the policies they want,
31:13but you also pay for it.
31:14You pay for your own bills.
31:16And I think the second agenda,
31:18I don't think that Bart de Wever really means it.
31:21Why?
31:22In 2014, he had 33% of the vote,
31:25the largest party by far in Belgium.
31:27And he just ignored any institutional reform.
31:30This is a price one has to pay in Belgium
31:32to come to power at the federal level.
31:34And this is what frustrates Flemish.
31:36One of the key takeaways from this election
31:38was also that De Vlaamse Belang did not do as well as predicted.
31:42Well, we are the major winner of this election.
31:45We won the most votes, the most seats.
31:47We're the largest party in three out of five Flemish provinces.
31:50But not in the Flemish parliament.
31:52And on that conclusion, we have to bring this discussion to an end.
31:56I'm afraid.
31:57Thank you so much for coming into us here at Euronews.
32:00Thank you so much as well, and as well to Owen.
32:02And thank you so much for watching.
32:04Any comments on anything you've heard today
32:06or any stories that you would like us to take a look at,
32:08do reach out.
32:09brusselsmyloveateuronews.com is our email address.
32:12You can also catch us on social media,
32:14send us a direct message.
32:15Take care and see you soon.
32:20brusselsmyloveateuronews.com