Marching On Together Leeds United Podcast: Leeds sit still as the Saints go marching on
This week on the Marching On Together Leeds United Podcast, Daniel and Lee reflect on a dismal day at Wembley for the Whites. Heartbreak in the play-offs once again for Leeds, but Dan James is the one shining light.
Plus! The pair push past the hurt and look ahead to next season, and whether Leeds will be favourites for promotion.
Plus! The pair push past the hurt and look ahead to next season, and whether Leeds will be favourites for promotion.
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00:00 [Chanting]
00:16 Well, Lee, we are back with our Legionnated podcast and, well, it's disappointment, isn't it?
00:25 Unfortunately, it's heartbreak. Leeds once again falling at the play-off hurdle.
00:30 Not for the first time, as we've chatted about in the past, never actually gone up via the Championship play-off.
00:37 So the curse goes on. Of course, it was Wembley and it was Southampton and it wasn't to be.
00:43 An Adam Armstrong goal in the first half was the winning goal.
00:48 Leeds never really looked too threatening. I mean, they had that spell towards the start of the game where they looked quite good.
00:56 Southampton then come back into it. Armstrong gets the goal, thanks to some awful defending, if we're brutally honest, from Leeds, just letting him drift into some space.
01:05 And then Leeds, you'd think at that point, as the game goes on, they'd sort of be peppering the Southampton goal, but it never really happened, did it?
01:13 I mean, Dan James had a couple of chances that would get onto him specifically in a little bit.
01:18 But the match as a whole, Leeds, for all the highs you had against Norwich in that semi-final second leg at Elland Road,
01:26 everyone saying, you know, this leads back to their best. Once again, it was the corner turned back around the wrong way again.
01:32 And they were sort of back to the lead they had been towards the end of the season, not looking very clinical going forward and looking very shaky at the back as well.
01:41 It really was a dismal afternoon in North London, wasn't it?
01:45 Most definitely was, yeah. And the second half of the season, well, not the whole second half of the season, since the international break, basically,
01:51 they've just been very, very hard to predict. And it has literally been a case of which Leeds turns up, really.
01:57 And we said beforehand that we were optimistic that they'd get the job done, that that second leg against Norwich,
02:05 that they would be full of confidence after that, that if they produced something similar to that, that would be enough.
02:11 And they produced something completely opposite to that. You know, it was nothing like that performance.
02:16 I mean, two shots on target in the whole game and sort of struggling to even remember what they are.
02:21 You know, obviously, Dan James, very unlucky with his shot. They hit the crossbar. We'll come on to it in a minute.
02:25 Was he willing to monitor one in the first half when Leeds were on top of their own?
02:28 That's right, yeah. But I mean, you know, like, I mean, even when I was doing the post-match video straight afterwards,
02:33 I was struggling to think of any chances, really, where you sort of thought, hmm, should have scored that.
02:37 Lots of forays forward and stuff and, like, you know, getting around the edge of the box, people like Somerville, especially.
02:42 But, you know, just sort of like nothing there and no end products, really.
02:45 And yeah, just extremely, extremely disappointed. And then it's hard because you sort of go into that game
02:50 and afterwards you sort of like ask yourself the question, well, you know, why did you fancy Leeds to do it?
02:55 Because the club have never done it in the playoffs and this, that and the other, as you've mentioned.
02:58 But I mean, that's not this bunch of players and it shouldn't, that shouldn't really have made any difference.
03:02 But even so, we were all speaking at Wembley beforehand and, you know, in the press area, as journalists and whatnot.
03:10 And basically the theme amongst us all was the same, was that we felt the first goal was going to be absolutely crucial.
03:15 And obviously I went for a 2-0 Leeds win and I was prepared to go with that because I did think that, like, basically,
03:21 if it goes wrong, it goes wrong and if Southampton score first, then that'd probably be it.
03:25 And even though there was only 24 minutes on the clock, when that goal went in, I was sat there in the stands
03:29 and it was in the press area or whatever at Wembley and I just thought to myself, it's not going to be Leeds' day.
03:34 And, you know, and that's pretty bad when you're thinking that there's only 24 minutes gone.
03:37 But it just sort of felt like that game already.
03:39 And obviously Southampton have just basically got Leeds' number.
03:42 They've already beaten twice this season and just an extremely disappointing afternoon.
03:46 I mean, obviously the second half, they had lots of possession leads and you kind of felt that maybe they might get going.
03:51 But it just, they just never really clicked, never got going.
03:53 Ross McCormack was interesting pre-match on Sky Sports News.
03:57 He said basically that if Leeds' front four all turned up, as he put it, he could only see one result, you know,
04:03 in terms of a Leeds win. And unfortunately, none of them turned up.
04:06 That's the reality of it, you know. I mean, they just didn't.
04:09 I mean, all right, Somerville, well, when Somerville got taken off, that's when I knew the game was up, basically.
04:14 You know, I mean, obviously Daniel Fark's searching for answers.
04:16 They're desperately trying to make something happen towards the end of the game.
04:19 But, and he didn't play great and so probably didn't deserve to stay on the pitch, really.
04:23 But I mean, when you're bringing off the Championships Player of the Year, you know, it's not your day.
04:26 Things are not going very well. And, you know, like it just never felt like a grandstand finish or anything.
04:31 There was all that extra time, obviously, after Dan James' blow to the head.
04:35 But extremely, extremely disappointing. Yeah. And it's such a shame.
04:39 And that was my thought sat there. I'm sure all the fans as well.
04:42 You're sort of thinking the massive winning run they had, the 90 points they had, all the highs, you know,
04:47 the fantastic win, the semi-final victory, like all the highs, you know.
04:50 And it has been a very, very good season in terms of the points tally and whatever.
04:54 But, you know, ultimately, they had automatic promotion in their own hands and they blew it.
04:58 And then they had the playoffs and they've blown it.
05:00 And basically, you know, you can say, well, 90 points is a terrific achievement, which it is.
05:04 But really, this season just counts for nothing, really.
05:07 I mean, you know, you can say it's something to build on for next season.
05:10 And we'll come to that again a bit later on. But I mean, you know, you are pretty much back to the drawing board.
05:15 The only thing is, obviously, is that you've obviously got a manager in place now and Daniel Farker.
05:19 It will be, you know, the sort of situation is a lot less turbulent now than it was over last summer.
05:24 But it doesn't mean it's plain sailing now this summer, because the fact Leeds have missed out on the Premier League,
05:29 obviously, they've got players who, you know, probably can play in the Premier League.
05:33 Some are built top of that list. So there's going to be speculation and interest in people like him, I'm sure.
05:38 And it's going to be another difficult summer, basically.
05:40 So, I mean, we'll come to next season, you know, at the end of this one and also in other shows that we do.
05:44 But, you know, I left Wembley and I thought you can't really argue with the result.
05:48 Some people might say it's quite a 50-50 game and stuff, but it's about taking your chances.
05:52 And we said beforehand Adam Armstrong was the danger man, you know, his favourite to score first.
05:57 It was no surprise that he did. 24th goal of the season in the 24th minute.
06:01 And that was it, you know, and fair play to Southampton.
06:03 They've done the job, they've beat Leeds three times.
06:05 You know, I mean, obviously you could say, well, top three should go up, but that's not the way it is.
06:09 It's the playoffs. And if you get in the playoffs, this is the risk you run.
06:12 But yeah, I think the massive regret also and disappointment for fans is that if they didn't win the playoff final,
06:18 then at least go out fighting, you know, and like go out all guns blazing and like with an absolute sort of like siege on the goal.
06:23 And it wasn't that. It wasn't that Leeds United have been brilliant this season.
06:27 It was the one that hasn't turned up in some games towards us, you know, since international break.
06:31 And just very, very disappointing. I should say a word for the fans, though.
06:35 I mean, that's the one thing that will stick in my mind.
06:36 I mean, that game, obviously going down to Wembley and the experience of it was, you know,
06:40 like obviously you'll always remember it and for disappointing reasons, obviously having lost a playoff final.
06:45 But the fans down there, that will always stick in my mind, you know, like the white wall, as Daniel Fart said,
06:51 he expected it to be and it was and it was that handsome. It was absolutely unbelievable.
06:55 Like, you know, literally every fan, it felt like was wearing white.
06:58 You had the big crest in the middle of them as well, you know, on the big screen and so loud, so noisy.
07:03 It was just an amazing, amazing atmosphere. One of the best I've seen, really.
07:06 So full credit to the fans who soon quickly cleared off and I don't blame them.
07:11 You know, after that, it was quite a sort of surreal sort of sight.
07:14 You had like one end of the stadium full of Southampton partying and then you had like Leeds players on the knees
07:18 and tears and stuff and the fans very, very, I mean, within about 10, 15 minutes, it felt like it was empty.
07:23 People quickly wanted to scarper back home and I'm not surprised.
07:26 So it's very rostered at the moment. You know, as I say, you can look back and say, well, it was a good season, etc., etc.
07:32 But it wasn't really because obviously it's not been promoted and we'll come to that in a minute.
07:36 But yeah, an extremely disappointing end to what has been a good season full of lots of highs, but, you know, a huge, huge low at the end of it.
07:44 No doubt about that.
07:45 Wembley isn't a place for losers, I think is the, is certainly what I'd contribute to that conversation.
07:53 I mean, I've been there myself and certainly I know as you're coming out of Wembley way and all you want to do is just get away as quickly as you can.
08:01 Of course, when you're covering the match, you don't go straight away.
08:03 But for the fans, you just want to get away as quickly as you can.
08:06 Then you come down Wembley way because it's, you know, it's not that wide.
08:10 You've got those stop go signs as well. It takes forever and you just know it's a nightmare.
08:15 Well, I think even us, I think even us as journalists felt a little bit like that, you know, I mean, obviously we had our work to do and whatever.
08:20 But I mean, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, certainly for the Leeds United journalists and stuff, myself included, it's a blow as well.
08:27 You know, I mean, you know, like, I mean, you've had things before and accusations and stuff from, you know, sort of other clubs and whatever and stuff where people sort of say,
08:36 oh, you know, like journalists would be out of business if clubs weren't, if clubs were doing well, this, that and the other, like this sort of the press thrive on, you know, clubs going badly and whatever.
08:43 But it's not the case, you know, like everybody wanted Leeds United to go up.
08:46 We wanted Leeds to go up. We wanted to be covering Premier League football.
08:49 That's what it's all about. And obviously, like, I mean, throughout the season, I mean, you know, I was messaging friends and stuff saying we're going to win the league, you know,
08:56 like Leeds are going to win the league this season. It was like, because it was looking that way as, you know, sort of a smash.
09:01 It was a nice time to do so, wasn't it?
09:02 Yeah, as they smashed into Leicester's advantage, you know, and that's what I thought would happen.
09:07 And then obviously that didn't happen. They thought, well, definitely get top two.
09:10 Then eventually started to get my head around the fact, no, they can do this.
09:13 They can win the playoffs. And obviously in the end, you've ended up with nothing.
09:15 And it was quite a sort of weird feeling, sat there thinking like throughout, you know, for all this season, how good it's been.
09:21 But basically, like, you know, just still going to be in the championship next season.
09:25 It was almost quite hard to get your head around really. And I'm sure it will be for the players.
09:28 I'm sure it will be for the fans. But yeah, I echo that sentiment. You're right.
09:31 I think it isn't a place for losers. And I think everyone just wanted to get away ASAP.
09:36 Very much so, yeah.
09:48 So now if we look at the game itself on the pitch, obviously there's not a lot of Leeds United highlights we can go through, to be honest.
09:56 Not a lot of standout players, but one person who did make something of an impact, I think, was Dan James when he came on off the bench replacing Wilfred Nonto.
10:07 Nonto, as we've mentioned already, didn't really have a good game. Struggled to get involved, to be honest.
10:12 James, though, he looked... it's threatening the word, given obviously he didn't really score, obviously provide any assists come the end of the game.
10:20 But he certainly looked the one who was most likely to do something for Leeds when he came on.
10:25 Of course, he did strike the bar with an effort that, let's be honest, it could have gone anywhere.
10:30 Could have gone nestled in the top corner, could have gone sailing over, but it hit the bar.
10:34 So desperately unlucky in that sense. Of course, he had that clash of heads as well, where he ended up having to get strapped right up around his forehead.
10:41 But overall, I think he's the one who, from that game, at least on an individual perspective, can leave with his head held up high and banded, of course, as well.
10:55 But yeah, if we just have a little chat about Dan James, I mean, do you think it would have been perhaps right to start him?
11:01 I know he's just come back from injury, of course, at the end of the season.
11:03 But given the way he played in that game and the way Nantes had no impact, essentially, would Dan James have been a better choice to start?
11:12 Well, in hindsight, he would, yeah. But obviously, hindsight's a glorious thing, isn't it?
11:15 It's very easy to say afterwards. And I think, generally speaking, when the team sheet came out, everybody sort of expected Leeds to be unchanged.
11:21 Because you've got, I mean, it feels a million miles away now, but on the basis of what they did against Norwich in that second leg.
11:27 So that's why everybody thought it'd be unchanged. And it was.
11:29 So I think, I don't think you can sort of knock the team selection as such. It was just obviously, it just didn't click and it didn't happen and stuff.
11:36 But yeah, I mean, obviously now you look at it and think, well, it might have been different if Dan James had started.
11:41 And it might well have been, to be honest, because he was the only one that looked like, you know, making something happen.
11:46 And, you know, as you quite rightly say, it was inches within making something happen.
11:50 Obviously, that shot that hit the bar, I mean, that was like, you know, obviously, apart from the winner, Armstrong's winner, that was the most traumatic moment of the game.
11:56 I mean, because it was in front of where all the Leeds fans were and you could just, I mean, even though you're miles away,
12:00 you could sort of see everybody sort of on their feet and just gasping as it smashed against the bar and very, very unlucky.
12:05 But I mean, basically speaking, he was Leeds' best player and he was only on the pitch for like, you know, 24 minutes, you know, plus added time.
12:12 And, you know, that just sums it up basically, doesn't it? When someone comes off the bench as your man of the match for that, you know, few amount of minutes.
12:20 But, you know, fair play to him. He had a real good go and it was a good end to this and not a good end to the season because obviously everyone will be devastated by losing the playoff final.
12:29 But performance wise, in a way, that was his return from injury, obviously.
12:33 And in a way, that was quite a sort of nice fitting end to the season for him, which has been a good, strong season, you know.
12:40 I mean, we've spoken about Dan James loads of times on these shows, obviously, and his pace has never been in doubt.
12:46 Neither has his commitment, you know, and his desire and the way he gets stuck in and even his tracking back.
12:51 He's got it all really in that sense. The thing that's always been questioned is his end product, obviously.
12:55 And, you know, he was inches away from getting something else there.
12:57 But even over the season as a whole, 13 goals and seven assists is pretty good for someone who hasn't been a regular, you know, week in, week out starter.
13:05 Obviously, battling with Somerville, who's always been one of the first names on the team sheet and Nonto towards the second half of the season.
13:12 Obviously, Jadon Nanty in the mix as well. So he can be pleased with that.
13:16 And, you know, assuming he stays and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't, yeah, I would think he'd be one of the key players next season, really.
13:22 I mean, a lot will obviously, within that, will depend on what happens with the wing options.
13:26 I mean, there's no point beating around the bush. Somerville is going to be massively in demand.
13:30 So you've got to have at least some sort of doubt over whether he'd be here.
13:33 I mean, you obviously hope he would be, you know, but I mean, that just depends ultimately who comes in.
13:38 And to a degree, probably the same with Nonto. So James feels like the one who there wouldn't be that much speculation about.
13:44 You know, he feels like he's fairly, you know, well settled and might be slightly less in demand than the aforementioned players, if you like.
13:52 So I think he'll be a key player next season. And yeah, you know, as you say, he's the one player who can really have their head held high, I suppose, from that display.
14:01 And in hindsight, you wish he'd have been on a bit earlier. But it'd be fascinating to see what happens over the summer.
14:06 It feels like Leeds need a striker, a number nine. That's the first thing I hear most fans say.
14:11 And I can totally agree why. Fair enough if Bamford's fit and firing.
14:16 But that's a big if, isn't it? It's a big if and when, and with his injuries as well.
14:19 There's the injuries. With him, it's the injuries and also the fact that he seems quite streaky.
14:22 You know, he goes on runs. Pirro has just been way too in and out.
14:26 And, you know, the playoff final display was one of those ones where he was just completely out.
14:31 He never got going at all. And it feels like they need something else up front. It feels like that's the first port of call, really, to me, as well as getting Joe Roden done.
14:39 But to be honest, now they're not in the Premier League, the first port of call really is to try and keep hold of your prized assets as well.
14:46 So difficult summer ahead. But, you know, fair play to Dan James.
14:50 Also, not just his performance and making things happen, trying to make things happen, as you alluded to, you know, the head injury.
14:56 When he went down, him and Walker-Peters were down for quite a while and he thought we'd both be coming off, you know, and obviously played on.
15:02 And you saw those pictures afterwards of the cut, which looked pretty nasty, to say the least.
15:06 So, yeah, a real heroic warrior display from him, but not enough, really.
15:11 And you need more than Dan James coming on in the 66th minute to win a playoff final.
15:16 So, yeah, but personally, a decent end to the season, or a good return anyway from him.
15:22 So we shall see what next season brings for him and for Leeds.
15:26 Yeah, it's going to be a tricky summer, I think, as you say there, Lee, obviously.
15:30 From what I read, Leeds, you know, might have to sell in some cases because of various PSR limitations.
15:38 You know, the football world comes down to money at the minute, or it seems to every week, seems to be a new money story involved in football.
15:44 So we'll see how that goes.
15:46 As you say there, Dan James can certainly be proud of the way he played in that game and the way he finished the season too.
15:52 And his return for the whole season, because this is a player who, of course, has sometimes been questioned for his end product or lack of in the past.
16:00 And yet this season, he's certainly turned that around with a good return on goals and assists.
16:15 Looking ahead to next season, now I know that's going to be, for anyone listening or watching, probably not what they're thinking of right now in terms of Leeds United.
16:24 Looking ahead to next season, I think the hurt will still be quite raw for most of Leeds' persuasion.
16:30 But it's something that happens in football, you know, there's no rest for the wicked, unfortunately.
16:36 So, you know, it's only a couple of months away. Pre-season will creep up on us very, very quickly.
16:41 And before we know it, and all of a sudden it will be August, mid-August and well, start of August for the championship and the season will be getting underway so late.
16:50 What's it looking like? I mean, obviously we can't fully analyse a lot yet because we don't know how the summer is going to go.
16:57 We don't know who's going to get the club come the start of August in terms of who might leave, who might come in.
17:03 But the way it's looking now, because of course we know all the teams that are confirmed to be in the championship, as far as we know, Leeds are favourites, which is...
17:13 Well, they are favourites, yeah. I mean, that's a fact. And people can obviously say, well, that means nothing because, and quite often the odds can mean nothing.
17:21 I mean, Leeds were long, long, long odds on to see an automatic promotion, obviously, when they're in the height of that amazing run in the second half of the season.
17:28 But they are favourites and that's a fact. And in fairly clear ones as well, 5-1 at the moment, Burnley 8-1 and then 12-1 Luton.
17:36 So, then you've got Borough 14s, West Brom 14s, Coventry 16s, Sheffield United 16s and Norwich 16s.
17:42 You could argue that there's some in there that look a big price. Luton in particular, 12 seems quite big to me.
17:47 Obviously, a lot depends on them, you know, who stays there as well. Not least the manager, who's obviously a very, very impressive young manager, Rob Edwards.
17:54 But, you know, there's a temptation to think, well, let's hold off looking ahead to next season for a bit.
17:59 You know, it's a bit raw and it's still, you know, only just sinking in. But the show moves on, basically, you know.
18:04 And obviously, you know, you need to sort of like, sort of take it on the chin and whatever and digest it.
18:09 But the show does move on and very quickly, you've got to start planning for next season.
18:13 And the fact is the transfer window opens less than three weeks after the playoff final.
18:17 And, you know, before you know it, it'll be pre-season. And obviously now it's Championship football.
18:21 I think it's the weekend of 10th, 11th of August. It's not actually that long. So it will soon be here.
18:27 I mean, should there be favourites? I don't know. It's a hard one to answer, isn't it, really?
18:31 I think basically if they keep the same squad as they've got now, then probably just about yes.
18:35 But then that's if they play, choose performances like, you know, the Wallop in Norwich and performances like that and beating Ipswich home and away and Leicester home and away.
18:44 If they produce performances like they have against Southampton, then there shouldn't be favourites.
18:48 But I mean, there's a long summer ahead. I mean, heaven knows which players are going to stay.
18:52 I mean, obviously Somerville is going to be top of the list for players in demand. Archie Dray is as well. Let's be honest about it.
18:59 I mean, you know, he's got the world at his feet. He's still only 18 and you wouldn't think so.
19:04 So there's no point, you know, pretending that there won't be interest in him because there's bound to be.
19:09 And obviously, I suppose, you know, Nonto as well as probably the other main one.
19:13 And Rogan's a big key one because he was only on loan. So who knows what's going to happen with the players?
19:18 Obviously, the big main thing that people talk about is the manager, Daniel Farker.
19:21 But, you know, it sounds to all extents and purposes like he will get the back in from the 49ers and from the club.
19:26 And I think that's the right call. You know, I think that's only fair when he came in, what he had to deal with.
19:32 You know, he'll point to how difficult it was at the start of the season, which it was.
19:37 But in the end, it wasn't really the start of the season that cost him. It was the end, which is sort of quite ironic.
19:41 But I think he deserves a crack, you know, from the start.
19:44 But it's not going to be plain sailing this summer either, as I say, because you have to try and hold on to your stars.
19:49 And then obviously, you know, there'll be recruitment as well.
19:51 And that will, you know, obviously play a large, very big part who they bring in this summer as to how they do next season.
19:56 So, yeah, they will go into it as favourites.
19:59 I think I wouldn't be surprised if that price drifted out a little bit and there was a bit more support coming in for other teams.
20:04 But it all depends also on what happens with the other teams in terms of their recruitment and management situation and stuff like that.
20:12 Obviously, you'll have three teams new to the division from League One.
20:16 Nobody really put it switch up there, did they, last season?
20:19 Exactly.
20:21 Yeah, exactly. There were a few people actually that thought they might do quite well, but like potentially, you know, maybe nip into sixth.
20:27 I don't think anybody had them down for second place.
20:30 So, who knows? There's bound to be a surprise package.
20:34 But I mean, this season was massive for Leeds, but next season feels even bigger now, obviously, because you can't write off the play-offs.
20:42 If Leeds end up in the play-offs again next season, you know, you can't just suddenly go into it and think, well, they ain't going to win the play-offs because this club doesn't do the play-offs.
20:48 I mean, that's the feeling basically, isn't it?
20:50 But I mean, you couldn't go into it thinking that, but it just feels like next season, they're going to have to finish top two.
20:55 It's as simple as that.
20:57 They've got to go up automatically.
21:00 And to be quite honest, there can't be any excuses, you know, like it's down to them now what they do this summer.
21:06 Obviously, yes, there might be interest in the star names, but then that's down to the club, what to do.
21:11 They're in control, as Daniel Fark's always put it.
21:13 So, they need to go into the season and they need to have a blinding start.
21:16 It's as simple as that. And that's going to be key, not just to feel to Leeds, but also to Daniel Fark.
21:21 You know, I think they need to start the season very, very strongly.
21:23 And hopefully they will. I mean, there's no reason why they won't. Obviously, it'll take a bit of getting over the play-off heartache, final heartache and whatever.
21:30 But, yeah, I mean, you know, people can turn their noses up at the odds and, you know, like talking about them this quickly.
21:36 But the fact of the matter is Leeds United are going to be favourites for next season's title.
21:41 So, yeah, that's another one for us to visit on another day, I think.
21:45 But it'll soon be here. And it goes without saying, this summer is absolutely huge.
21:51 It is indeed. I mean, that's, I guess that is one way of ending this episode, to be honest.
21:57 You know, after all that, after the venting and the heartbreak you've had over the course of the episode,
22:02 over the course of the weekend, to finish and say, yes, but Leeds are favourites for next season.
22:07 So, you never know, come this time next May, you know, in 12 months' time, things might be a little bit different for the lads in white.
22:14 But for now, of course, as I mentioned, the hurts will be very raw for fans, for players, for staff and for the journalists, as you say, Lee,
22:23 because as much as people might have argued, as you said, that bad news is what sells.
22:29 In the same way, you know, good news, it can, it gets a buzz around the club and then people want to read, people want to consume everything just as much.
22:37 I mean, I've learned that as well. So, you know, it works two ways, in my opinion.
22:41 So, yeah, I think that's all we can really say for now. We will be back for another couple of episodes before the end of the season.
22:49 Still lots to talk about before the off-season comes in and the Euros kick in.
22:53 So, we'll keep going until then. But for now, thank you all for listening.
22:57 Lee, as I say, it's been a crap weekend, hasn't it?
23:01 Let's be honest, it has, yes, it has. But we'll move quickly on and as the saying goes, we go again.
23:08 Certainly do, right. Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next time.