- 5/28/2024
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 Well, good evening and welcome. I am Nupur Talwar Suri and you are watching a special
00:10 show on NDTV Profit. Well, you must have noticed posts and reports of an apparent placement
00:15 crisis at the country's prestigious IITs. Over the span of next half an hour, we decode
00:21 these numbers. We also have a detailed discussion on a report that has been compiled by Dheeraj
00:26 Singh, who will be joining us on the show, who is an IIT Kanpur alumnus, on the basis
00:31 of RTIs that he filed and the responses that he's received from 23 IITs. First up, we are
00:37 joined by NDTV India's Pooja Bhardwaj to break down the numbers for us. Good evening, Pooja.
00:43 Now, Pooja, according to this report that has been compiled by Dheeraj, it appears that
00:50 from 23 IITs, about 8000 students or so are still to be placed. Give us a broad sense
00:57 of what these numbers indicate.
00:59 See, if you look at the total number of IITs in the country, there are 23 IITs, 9 older
01:12 IITs and 14 new IITs. We were constantly talking about job placement from the students and
01:18 Dheeraj Singh, whom you are talking about, is from IIT Kanpur. He himself mentors many
01:22 students. He has set up his own organization. And many of the students whom he was mentoring,
01:29 he was seeing that many children are going into depression due to not getting a job placement.
01:35 And one such student whom he was mentoring, he was in depression and he committed suicide.
01:41 So this was a story behind him where he felt that after doing RTI in these 23 IITs, it
01:46 is important to understand the situation of job placements. If you talk about IIT Bombay,
01:51 where we are right now, IIT Bombay is ranked at number 3. If you talk about job placements,
01:57 then across IITs, we used to see a time when 90-95% placements were considered fixed, companies
02:03 were in line. But if you look at the state of IIT, 38% have not been able to get a placement.
02:09 So far, although in IIT Bombay, placement is going on till June 31, so they do not have
02:13 the statistics of all the students in this session. But before this, the IIT has also
02:17 agreed that they are not getting a placement in that way. That is why we are seeing in
02:22 IIT Bombay that a group of former students are being helped by IIT Bombay. And across
02:28 the big IITs, there are also a group of former students who are helping them in placement.
02:33 Now, if you understand the statistics, then it is roughly that in 23 IITs, the 9 older
02:40 IITs, 37% students have not been able to get a placement. In 14 new IITs, around 40% students
02:47 have not been able to get a placement. You can also understand this by comparing that
02:52 it is a new IIT, it will take time to become a brand, the demand from the students there
02:56 will be more for the older IITs. But they are not getting a placement in IITs, this is the
03:00 news. So here, many factors are being explained when we talk to such students or former students
03:07 who have startups in many companies, who are strategy consultants. So the global factor
03:12 is very big in this, the unrest outside in IIT companies, if you look across, then earlier
03:17 where around 6 lakh engineering students do not need to be from IIT, they can be from
03:22 any college, they used to get placement, they used to get hiring of around 6 lakh engineering
03:28 students. That figure has decreased, if you see, from 2.5 lakhs to 2.5 lakhs and then
03:33 now it has gone up to 1.5 lakhs. 6 lakhs to a few years ago, now we have come to 1.5 lakhs.
03:38 So the supply of engineering students is very high, many colleges have been built, IITs
03:42 as we are talking, that no, IITs have been built in a few years, so the supply is very
03:47 high, but the global factor, the way the unrest is coming out on IIT companies, so the graduates,
03:52 the B.Tech graduates, their hiring has stopped first. Those new talents have been stopped
03:56 taking. This figure has to be understood that the former students of Dhiraj Singh, IIT
04:01 Kanpur, who had put this RTI, they have also clearly stated that this figure is related
04:06 to those students who register for placement. That is, this is not the figure of the students
04:12 in IIT, around 70-80% go for placements, the rest of the students go for higher studies
04:18 or nowadays there is a craze for start-ups, so they want to start their own business.
04:23 So that figure is different, those 30% are different students, but those 70% who go for
04:27 placement, where we used to see 90% placement, how has it decreased now? And if you look
04:32 at the last 3 years, the figure is going down. In 2022, this figure was around 19% who did
04:41 not get placement on campus, it increased to 21% in 2023. And this year, this is a really
04:48 disturbing figure, where we are seeing 38% that the children have not been able to get
04:52 a job. So what is the solution to this? This is a very big discussion in itself, which
04:57 is that the government should work on many such sectors where such jobs increase. Companies
05:03 will also have to keep in mind that how important new talent is in today's time, because artificial
05:07 intelligence is also playing a big role in this, where the job placement of such graduates
05:11 is very low. If you go there for PG students, for higher studies students, then the placement
05:16 there is still 90%. So the companies that are hiring are hiring students with higher
05:22 studies. This is a bigger problem for the graduates. So companies will also have to understand
05:27 that these talents are also very necessary. And the role of the government here is that
05:31 can more options be increased in such sectors where such placements get more opportunities.
05:36 So artificial intelligence is playing a big role. The global factor which is unrest in
05:40 IT companies, the way it has come out, such hiring has stopped. And at the same time,
05:44 the supply of engineering students is very high. So this factor has to be seen because
05:48 it has also been shown in RTI that how the registration of placement students is increased
05:53 by 1.3 times. So due to this high supply, this figure seems even more scary.
05:59 Absolutely Pooja. And in fact Pooja did reach out to IIT Bombay, which has said that the
06:04 placement cycle is still not complete. But Pooja, thank you for the moment for joining
06:08 us. Now also joining us are A. R. Ramesh of TeamLease, degree apprenticeship program and
06:14 Dheeraj Singh, an alumnus of IIT Kanpur. In fact, he's the one who had filed these RTIs.
06:20 Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining us. Dheeraj, if I could come to
06:24 you first. Now to begin with, what is it that really prompted you to file these RTIs? What
06:31 was your own experience of the students that you were mentoring in terms of placements?
06:37 What is it that was the trigger really?
06:40 Hello Nupur. So I think this is a very good question and it is very close to my heart.
06:48 Last year, we were, you know, there have been a lot of suicide news which struck IITs. Just
06:55 to give you a number, 33 suicides have taken place in IITs since 2022. So almost one a
07:04 month. This is the number we are tracking. And for us, actually, you know, this was something
07:10 very painful and we wanted to reach out to students. So we started mentoring and interacting
07:15 with the students last year. And, you know, 50 of us alumnus got together and started
07:21 giving free mentorship to students. We have about 400 students who we mentor free of cost
07:26 across 50 IITs. Now, first cohort, we just had 50 students and we realized one of the
07:32 students, his name is Vikas Meena, he texted me in WhatsApp saying that, you know, he is
07:38 not placed and he is depressed and anxious and he is completely hopeless. He doesn't
07:44 know what to do. And lo and behold, come 10th of January, a few months down the line, he
07:51 died by suicide in his hostel room at IIT Kanpur. So as I was telling, there is almost
07:56 a month, one a month suicide rate happening. This was particularly very disturbing for
08:02 us. And we saw this was the first instance which came out and brought, you know, gave
08:08 an insight on the placement linkage. Then we did an emotional health survey for our
08:13 mentored students who we mentored and found 40% of those students cited that they need
08:18 some kind of mental health support and they were undergoing placement anxiety, depression
08:23 and so forth. So this was troubling for us. And we wanted to know why this is happening.
08:29 Is there some kind of a link between what's happening in the placement scene and what's
08:33 the mental psyche of the students? That prompted us to file 23 RTIs in IITs and the facts which
08:41 came back through RTIs almost confirmed a suspicion that the placement is a major worry
08:48 apart from the academic stress because of which students are getting, you know, taking
08:53 some extreme measures. So that is where we started the whole exercise.
08:57 Right. Let's also bring in A. R. Ramesh into this. What are your initial thoughts on it?
09:03 Does it actually surprise you that the number of students who are not placed is at about
09:09 38%? Of course, you know, the cycle is still not complete. So there could be more placements
09:14 made. What do you, are you surprised at all to begin with by the number? And what do you
09:19 make of it? What's the reason?
09:21 Thank you, Anupur. See, I think, I don't think I'm really surprised because what's happening
09:27 across the world, the macroeconomic factors are really playing out. The war out there
09:33 and everything that's happening around the world is really not in the favor of placements
09:38 today. Now, if you also look at the over hiring that happened just after COVID, the pandemic,
09:45 I think companies were indiscriminate in hiring a lot of talent. And now I think they are
09:51 rationalizing that. And that's another reason that's adding to this slowdown in hiring.
09:57 And of course, the technology changes, which are happening so rapidly today. Every three
10:04 months, a new technology is introduced. The old one gets obsolete. And the fact that in
10:10 India, even if you are a graduate, even from the topmost of the colleges, you're almost
10:15 trained for six months to one year, even before you get job ready. So that's another reason.
10:21 So we, in India, I think we get good qualifications, but not real skills. So these are the problems,
10:28 some of the problems, which are my initial thoughts on why this is happening.
10:32 Right, Dheeraj, coming back to you. Dheeraj, now, what the numbers seem to suggest is that
10:38 for 2024, the number is nearly double of those who were not placed in 2023. What's the reason
10:45 for that? And do you agree with A. R. Ramesh when he says that, you know, there seems to
10:50 be a gap in the skill set that is demanded by these companies and what IITs are actually
10:56 giving out?
10:58 Well, I tend to partly agree and in fact, want to add on to what Mr. Ramesh has just
11:05 said. To give you a perspective of, you know, just to learn what's the lay of the land.
11:11 There are about 20 million engineers, software engineers in the world, 5 million in India,
11:18 5 million in China, 5 million in US. And there is a big giant tech layoff which took place,
11:26 by the way, about 500, half a million of engineers since 2022. And why is this happening? This
11:33 is happening simply because, not just because of the quality, and these are the people who
11:37 were employed in the big tech, means they already were quite qualified, exceptional
11:42 talent. But what was happening was the pace of automation was so fast, thanks to the,
11:48 you know, artificial intelligence, that people now do not require the low-end jobs. They
11:55 are getting killed, simply getting killed. You talk about Elon Musk, you talk about Warren
12:00 Buffet, you talk about any big, you know, name in the industry, they are saying that
12:06 AI has the capability to automate the entire software engineering services sector. Now,
12:13 what is this? This sector was going to the campus and hiring about 30% of the campus,
12:21 you know, the intake. So, when TCS, for example, in 2022, it hired about 2 lakh, 6 lakh freshers.
12:31 This year, their number was 50,000. So, clearly, when this software is getting impacted, the
12:39 placement is getting impacted. And these numbers are actually speaking that since 2022, this
12:46 has really hit, you know, a curve which is very fast and, you know, it's kind of genius
12:52 come out of the bottle, so to say. Right. Mr. Ramesh, now, do you also think that
12:58 this rounds of layoffs that we are seeing from, you know, big firms like Google, Microsoft,
13:04 Amazon, at least for the past two years, are having a trickle-down effect perhaps? Because
13:08 at the end of the day, people who are laid off provide for recruiters, people who are
13:15 trained in that workforce, instead, you know, for a company to invest in a fresher, will
13:21 that perhaps make more sense for them to hire those? So, do you think this is also partly
13:26 because of that? Yeah, see, because if you look at it, it's a demand-supply equation.
13:31 So, the supply is in abundance. And at that time, you tend to take people who are more
13:36 experienced and who are ready for the job. And today, people are obviously even looking
13:42 at compromising on their salaries. So, with that, I think it is having an effect at the
13:48 entry-level hiring. Right. Dheeraj, you know, any particular sectors
13:53 that are not hiring or do you see a similar sort of trend across industries? It's more
14:00 broad-based, would you say? Well, if I have your permission, Nupur, I just want to just
14:06 touch upon to Mr. Ramesh's point on the salary, because he's brought in some interesting
14:11 insight. Yes.
14:12 That what's happening? So, the placement or the lack of jobs or the unemployment, is
14:18 it impacting the salary levels also? And let's just have a quick look at it. Almost less
14:23 than 1% of IITians who graduate and sit for placements get crore plus packages. But that
14:31 1% of the students tend to the hype around that crore plus package actually kind of impacts
14:38 the whole society, so to say, economy, so to say. And everybody thinks that every IITian
14:44 who graduate gets a crore plus salary. Whereas the reality is the median salary has gone
14:51 down by 15 to 20%. It used to be in older IITs about 18 to 20 lakhs a year. And now
14:59 it's kind of trending at about 15 to 16 lakhs per year. And in the newer IITs, the 14 new
15:07 IITs, the number is even lesser at 12 to 14 lakhs. So, this is certainly pushing a lot
15:13 of pressure on the salaries. And one can also say that there is significant underemployment
15:20 of the skilled workforce or whatever level the skill. So, simply to understand earlier,
15:25 people were getting much higher salary and now they're getting 20% less for the same
15:30 amount of skill, same amount of talent. So, this is something which is really I wanted
15:34 to bring that and add to Mr. Ramesh's comment. And coming back to your point on the other
15:40 sector, so yes, certainly, because of the macro factors, the higher interest rate in
15:46 the economy, particularly in the US, higher inflation, the companies actually have focused
15:52 and changed gears from growth to profitability. And once they look at profitability, they
15:58 certainly are reducing the headcounts, which is the first expense they want to sort of
16:03 optimize on, which is leading to significant freezing of the hiring taking place in the
16:10 business sectors other than the IITs by and large. So, there is substantially lower demand
16:16 in the market. All right. Dheerath Singh and Mr. Ramesh,
16:21 both of you do stay with us. We're going to slip into a very short break. When we come
16:25 back, we'll shed some more light on the reason for this slump and also the way forward really
16:32 for IITs as well as perhaps businesses which need to have a more concrete plan in place
16:39 to hire youngsters. Welcome back. And we are joined by A. R. Ramesh
16:51 of Team Lease as well as Dheerath Singh, who is an IIT Kanpur alumnus, and he is the man
16:58 who actually filed these 23 RTIs asking for true data to reflect the placement numbers.
17:06 Mr. Ramesh, if I could come to you now. You mentioned that there is a gap in the skills
17:11 and the demand from the industry. Now, I want to understand, is this limited to IITs that
17:16 there is a slowdown in placements or are other colleges facing a similar sort of a slowdown?
17:22 Also, particularly focusing on cross-border education institutions, is there an uptick
17:28 in those? See, I'll answer your question, but even
17:33 before that, I also wanted to give you some statistics. So, the International Labour Organization
17:38 says that 85 million jobs will become obsolete because of artificial intelligence.
17:45 At the same time, it's also a fact that 97 million new jobs will be created is what the
17:52 ILO says because of artificial intelligence. And that means that you really have to get
17:58 upskilled or reskilled because you are no more relevant if you hold the old skills.
18:03 So, from that perspective, that's one data point. The other thing is GDP of India is
18:08 growing tremendously. Even today, I think there's a revision of the GDP to 6.7%.
18:15 So, I think the demand is there, but at the same time, are the same skills relevant?
18:22 Is it enough if we continue doing the same old thing is the point I'm trying to bring up.
18:28 One more data point, which I just want to substantiate is the fact that today,
18:34 World Economic Forum says in India, one out of 10 graduates are only employable.
18:40 Only one out of five engineers really are employable and only one out of four management
18:47 graduates are really employable. So, there is a clear gap between supply and demand.
18:55 And that is driven by skills because I think traditionally, India has been concentrating
19:00 on the qualification. That is the reason why even if a student comes out of campus,
19:06 it takes almost one year to become job ready. So, from that perspective,
19:10 there is a difference between the skill that is required versus what a student gains
19:18 from just theoretical knowledge. Now, to your question, I would surely submit that
19:24 we see this trend not just with IITs across and like Dheeraj said, I think there is a huge
19:30 slowdown in IT. And I wouldn't say that's a despair across all industries.
19:37 The reason I say that is if you look at e-commerce and startups or telecom or engineering
19:43 and infrastructure, there is a huge uptick in the hiring for freshers.
19:48 We see that there's a lot of demand for new-age skills, be it drones, be it semiconductors,
19:56 or be it on EVs, electric vehicles. So, there is a lot of demand, but the skills that are required
20:03 are completely different than what was traditionally being looked at. So, there is a change
20:08 and I don't see this as unique only to the IITs. And to Dheeraj's point, we are even seeing
20:14 the freshers being offered less than 10 lakhs in IITs. So, we have got in the last couple of months,
20:22 there are data points where we are seeing that hardly 6.5 lakhs was offered to some of the IITians,
20:30 not the older ones, but the newer ones. So, that's where the trend is going.
20:35 So, I think skills are extremely, extremely important to build. And if you do not have
20:40 the right skills, you will not be able to get placed.
20:43 A very important point you are making over there. You know, Dheeraj, if we could have your final thoughts on it.
20:48 What's the way forward? Now, as Mr. Ramesh pointed out, the GDP is growing, but it's not really
20:54 translating to real jobs. Placements numbers are slowing down. What do you think is the way forward?
21:02 I think the skill point is certainly the number one point. If we have to realize the demographic,
21:10 so-called demographic dividend, there is no question that we have to optimize on the skills part of it.
21:17 What about the demand part? I think my question is around the demand part because even if I were to ignore
21:23 like one on five of engineers and one on ten of graduates who are employable, I'm just, let's take IITs,
21:29 let's take a simpler system. Let's take 30,000 graduates from IITs every year.
21:36 And, you know, we're just talking about, that's like 2% of the total engineering graduates
21:43 who will graduate in a year. If we are able to solve or not able to solve that problem,
21:48 there is perhaps, you know, it's kind of a bellwether for the rest of the engineering segment
21:53 and also for the whole entire country. So my thing is, my submission here is that we have to strongly look
22:01 at the demand side because skill and the number of skilled workforce is certainly not going to slow down
22:07 in consummation or in line with the demand side. And we have to somehow kickstart the demand.
22:13 There is a huge need for setting up the employment data systems, which the country that has the second largest
22:22 youth labor workforce. We do not have an employment data systems unlike in US or any other advanced countries.
22:29 The RBI, for example, before its monetary policy should look at, should be able to look at,
22:36 what are my employment indicators as the Fed in US looks at and decides what's mine going to be the interest rate?
22:43 Because that's a huge input for the industry to kickstart the investments and, you know, start the growth cycle.
22:50 But that's missing. Absolutely. Well, that's all we have time for on the show.
22:54 Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us and bringing out the essential gap in demand in supply
23:00 that's coming out of the country's premier institutions.
23:04 [MUSIC]
23:10 you
Recommended
8:46
|
Up next