Special interview with prof. Hakim Adi on pan-Africanism and communism

teleSUR English

A special interview with Hakim Adi, historian of Africa and the African diaspora, to go over Panafricanism, its roots and future. TeleSUR

Transcript

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00:10 [MUSIC]

00:37 Hello, and welcome to Tell Us Your English.

00:40 In this case, we are from Havana, Cuba, from the Casa de las Americas,

00:45 the iconic Cuban cultural institution.

00:48 And we are pleased to greet Professor Hakeem Addy.

00:51 He is here with us.

00:53 He's a historian and specialized on history of Africa and the African diaspora.

00:58 And thank you for joining us here in Tell Us Your English.

01:02 Hakeem, we are pleased to have you here with us.

01:04 >> My great pleasure.

01:05 >> So I would like to start by asking you,

01:08 what are we talking about when we talk about Pan-Africanism?

01:11 >> Pan-Africanism is a movement, an idea,

01:16 really concerned with the liberation of Africa and the entire African diaspora.

01:22 Concerned with the unity of Africa and

01:24 the African diaspora in pursuit of its liberation.

01:30 So it arose out of the conditions of colonialism,

01:34 enslavement, racism, and so on.

01:37 And really became an established movement at the beginning of the 20th century.

01:41 >> So in your studies, in your book, you cover, well,

01:48 you've done a whole history from the development,

01:52 the origins and development of Pan-Africanism.

01:55 And I would like to ask you about the particular significance that

02:00 the countries in this region, from the Caribbean and

02:03 also other regions from South America, like Brazil, for example.

02:07 What can you tell us about the importance that this region of the world has played

02:12 in the broader picture, the broader history of Pan-Africanism?

02:16 >> Well, particularly from the Caribbean, a country such as Haiti,

02:21 which is in the news at the moment,

02:22 played a very important part in the development of Pan-Africanism.

02:27 We could say that the Haitian Revolution itself was a Pan-African act,

02:31 in the sense that Africans from many parts of the continent who had been

02:36 kidnapped, enslaved, taken to the Caribbean, organized themselves,

02:40 spoke different languages, but came together in unity to overthrow

02:45 the entire slave system, to defeat the armies of Britain, France, Spain, and so

02:49 on, liberate themselves, and then create a haven for other Africans.

02:55 And a symbol of the independence of all Africans,

02:59 a symbol of African liberation, African freedom.

03:02 So countries like Haiti have played a very important role, and

03:06 then people from the countries of the Caribbean and Latin America have also

03:11 played a very important role in the development of Pan-Africanism.

03:16 For example, somebody like Marcus Garvey in the 1920s played an important role.

03:21 There have been many others drawn from this region,

03:25 from the American continent, as well as Africa and other parts of the world.

03:29 >> You've just mentioned that Haiti is, of course, in the news.

03:34 It has been for quite some time, and particularly in this month.

03:38 Do you have a read on the ongoing crisis that the Haitian people

03:44 are currently going through and its links to this initial moment that you

03:49 pictured as a first Pan-African revolution?

03:54 Is there a link between the two instances in history?

03:57 >> Well, there's certainly a link in the sense that the big powers,

04:02 initially France, and then more recently the United States,

04:06 have tried to stifle that liberation, stifle that independence.

04:11 And many of Haiti's problems today are the direct result of the intervention of,

04:16 we can say, US imperialism, as well as the other big powers, France, Canada, and

04:21 others, who have created the very conditions which exist in Haiti today.

04:26 And having created the conditions,

04:27 they say that they wish to intervene to change those conditions.

04:33 But the essence is that they've created the problem and cannot solve it.

04:38 And it should be left for the people of Haiti, with their friends, of course,

04:43 to solve the problems that are facing Haiti today.

04:47 >> And Professor Hakeem, one of your areas of study has also been

04:53 the link between Pan-Africanism and communism.

04:56 I wanted to ask you about that link.

04:59 First of all, about your desire to explore that relationship between the two.

05:05 What drew you to that link?

05:07 >> Well, often things have been presented in such a way that it would

05:13 appear that there is a division or a difference between these two movements.

05:20 But Pan-Africanism is concerned with the unity and

05:25 liberation of Africa and its diaspora.

05:28 Communism is concerned with the liberation of the workers,

05:33 the toilers of all countries.

05:35 And so there's a clear interconnection between the two.

05:40 And particularly in the early 20th century when many people from the African diaspora

05:45 in the US and the Caribbean as well as in Africa were looking to find ways

05:50 of affecting their liberation, they were greatly inspired by the communist movement.

05:56 And particularly by the events that had taken place in Russia,

05:59 then the Soviet Union.

06:01 They said to themselves, if the people of Russia, the ordinary workers and

06:04 farmers of Russia can liberate themselves,

06:07 then this has got to be a good thing for us.

06:10 And perhaps we can liberate ourselves by following a similar example.

06:15 And of course they were encouraged and inspired by the creation of

06:21 the communist movement, the communist international, which then tried to assist

06:26 and intervene in those struggles in Africa, the Caribbean, and other places.

06:30 And encourage that unity and encourage people to struggle for their liberation.

06:36 But in collaboration with the struggles of people of all countries.

06:42 So I think that's the connection between the two movements.

06:44 >> And do you believe that, can we think Pan-Africanism

06:52 as being inherently anti-imperialist?

06:56 Or are there different ways of approaching, or

07:00 have there been different ways of approaching the idea of Pan-Africanism?

07:04 >> Pan-Africanism is a broad movement.

07:07 In my book I say it's like a river with many different streams and currents.

07:13 Broadly speaking, yes, we could say it is a movement opposed to colonialism,

07:18 opposed to racism, opposed to imperialism.

07:21 But of course some people, some organizations take slightly different

07:26 routes to that liberation, slower routes we could say.

07:31 For example, today we have a Pan-African organization such as the African Union.

07:37 The organization of the countries of Africa in particular, but

07:41 which also includes the diaspora.

07:44 The African Union was established ostensibly as a bulwark

07:50 against imperialism, against neoliberal globalization.

07:54 But of course because of the actual situation in the world, it's very

07:57 difficult for those African countries, the governments of which are tied

08:02 to the imperialist system of states in one way or another, to actually

08:07 operate in a united and organized way for

08:11 the benefit of all the people of Africa and the diaspora too.

08:15 So you have there a contradiction, a Pan-African organization attempting

08:20 to develop that unity, attempting to affect that liberation, but in a very slow way.

08:26 And continually impacted by,

08:33 so I say, the big powers, the imperialist system of states.

08:36 So that contradiction exists.

08:38 >> And of course, when you studied the relationship between Pan-Africanism and

08:44 communism, you focused your research on the decades of the 20s and

08:48 30s and the 20th century.

08:52 But we're here in Havana, and I cannot avoid to ask you about Cuba and

08:59 its role in this broader picture of what you're studying as Pan-Africanism.

09:05 Thinking Cuba as not only a country in the Caribbean that has brought about and

09:12 sustained a socialist revolution, but it has also made concerted efforts of

09:17 supporting and continue to this day to do concerted efforts of supporting

09:21 the struggles of the people in Africa and the African continent.

09:25 So what is your read on Cuba?

09:26 >> Well, Cuba has been and continues to be a very, very important country.

09:33 Unique, really, in the world in this period and in the previous period.

09:39 So a great inspiration to those people within Africa,

09:44 in other parts of the Caribbean, globally, to the African diaspora.

09:49 An example of the possibility of liberation.

09:52 And then as you hinted, also played a very important role in the liberation

09:57 struggles in Africa, particularly in places like Angola, Mozambique, Guinea.

10:01 A very important role in the final elimination of the apartheid regime in

10:07 South Africa.

10:08 So Cuba has that role, and I think certainly in the time of Fidel,

10:13 it saw its positioning, its involvement in Africa

10:18 as if you like connecting the struggles of Cubans,

10:22 many of whom have African heritage, with the struggles in the African continent.

10:27 But I think it remains, perhaps more importantly today,

10:30 it remains an example of what a small country can do.

10:34 Even though blockaded by the biggest imperialist power in the world,

10:39 it can still exist, it can still make progress despite all the difficulties and

10:45 so on, and I think the most important thing about Cuba today is it shows us

10:50 an alternative, because the big powers continually present

10:56 the view that there is only their imperialist system of states.

11:00 There's only neoliberalism, there's only the capital-centered system.

11:04 But Cuba shows that there is another way, and even under that blockade of

11:10 so many decades, that there are great possibilities.

11:13 And one imagines if there wasn't that blockade, what kind of country Cuba

11:17 would be, it would be an even greater example to the rest of the world.

11:21 >> So Professor Addy, in closing, I would like to ask you about how you view

11:27 the world, the current world, in which the global South has been striving

11:33 to encourage relationships between, besides other countries,

11:38 also countries in the African continent and the Latin American continent,

11:42 the Caribbean region.

11:44 For example, here in Havana last year was the G77 and China Summit,

11:49 that in which many African leaders participated and talked about the

11:53 importance of relations between Latin America, Caribbean, and

11:58 the African continent.

11:59 How do you view this possible connection, this present for

12:02 the global South in the view of what we've been talking about so far?

12:06 >> Potentially it's very important.

12:09 In fact, the first time I came to Cuba was for a G77 meeting.

12:14 I remember it very well.

12:15 Fidel spoke and gave this, what can you say,

12:21 very inspiring speech about the world being like a ship.

12:27 And he essentially said in that analogy, unless the peoples of the world came

12:33 together and took over the ship, it would sail into an iceberg.

12:38 So I think that image is very important.

12:40 Yes, the relations between governments are extremely important, but

12:44 also the relationship between peoples of the world.

12:47 The peoples of the global South finding ways of coming together,

12:52 organizing themselves, uniting to change the world.

12:55 Because as we're seeing with Haiti, for example,

13:00 sometimes the countries of the South are a bit confused about where their

13:05 interests lie or where the interests of their people lie or

13:08 where the interests of the people of the countries of the global South lie.

13:12 So the involvement of the people unleashing that,

13:17 the human factor you could say, is so important.

13:21 And finding ways of doing that, which countries like Cuba or Venezuela or

13:26 Brazil or Colombia and others can play a very important role.

13:32 But as I say, always utilizing the strength, the unity,

13:37 the possibilities of the people themselves to change the situation.

13:41 I think that's the key thing.

13:43 >> Professor, I would like to thank you on behalf of Teluser English for

13:48 joining us for this great conversation.

13:52 It's been a pleasure to have you here with us.

13:54 >> My pleasure, thank you.

13:55 >> And like this, we come to a close on this great conversation with Professor Ady.

14:01 and stay here with Teluser English, stay with us.

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